Total Financial Transparency Immediately Necessary To Keep The GAA Great.

Xenophile

Xenophile wrote: »

Your contribution is overly simplistic and does not reflect reality!

What's the reality so?

nice_guy80

Members of one club should NOT be able to just view another clubs accounts

Its like one business looking at the accounts of another business

As said above, AGMs and club meetings are there for members to investigate and query the running of clubs and their finances

Xenophile

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Members of one club should NOT be able to just view another clubs accounts

Its like one business looking at the accounts of another business

Anyone can access any company's accounts as they are lodged with the Companies Registration Office, Parnell Square, Dublin 1.

Xenophile

Deleted User wrote: »

What's the reality so?

A lot more transparency needed.

theoneeyedman

Xenophile wrote: »

Anyone can access any company's accounts as they are lodged with the Companies Registration Office, Parnell Square, Dublin 1.

Would you be happy to post your bank statements on here then.... It would be interesting from a transparency pov!

Xenophile

theoneeyedman wrote: »

Would you be happy to post your bank statements on here then.... It would be interesting from a transparency pov!

That has nothing got to do with transparency within the GAA. Just wish that you would not seek to personalise the thread! It serves no purpose!

Xenophile

Xenophile wrote: »

A lot more transparency needed.

That's a bland statement with nothing to support it.

What's the lack of transparency at the moment and why does it need to be addressed?

Xenophile

Deleted User wrote: »

What's the reality so?

Do you expect me to write an essay in response to your four word question? If you read previous posts supporting the proposition you could inform yourself as to the merits and benefits of transparency!

howiya

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Members of one club should NOT be able to just view another clubs accounts

Its like one business looking at the accounts of another business

As said above, AGMs and club meetings are there for members to investigate and query the running of clubs and their finances

I'd agree with most of this. Would also add that only paid up members ie those entitled to attend and vote at the AGM should be able to see the club's accounts. They should not be put online for all and sundry to view them.

Clubs are run on behalf of their members and I can't see any reason why a non member would have an interest in a club's accounts.

Businesses are different, governed by companies act, formed in the hope of making a profit etc

Xenophile

Xenophile wrote: »

Total Financial Transparency Immediately Necessary To Keep The GAA The Great Organisation that it is.

We have a great association in the GAA, and to keep it great what is urgently required is total financial transparency from the bottom up i.e. from Club Level all the way at all levels to Croke Park.

All clubs, County Boards, Provincial Boards, Divisional Boards etc. should be obliged to publish their Annual Financial Report on their websites.

Xenophile wrote: »

Can you name one voluntary organisation that would not work better with greater transparency?

Xenophile wrote: »

Your contribution is overly simplistic and does not reflect reality!

Xenophile wrote: »

Anyone can access any company's accounts as they are lodged with the Companies Registration Office, Parnell Square, Dublin 1.

Xenophile wrote: »

A lot more transparency needed.

Xenophile wrote: »

That has nothing got to do with transparency within the GAA. Just wish that you would not seek to personalise the thread! It serves no purpose!

Xenophile wrote: »

Do you expect me to write an essay in response to your four word question? If you read previous posts supporting the proposition you could inform yourself as to the merits and benefits of transparency!

I'd expect you to put forward even one single fact, idea or example in support of your initial proposition yes. You appear to be doing nothing more than putting forward your proposition ("we need more transparency!") as absolute fact and refuse to back it up with anything approaching a coherent idea or statement.

The other points made by people who are actually engaging in the thread are:

1. More Transparency = Less Corruption
2. Some form of GAA lead Financial Fair Play would be beneficial in redressing the balance at intercounty level
3. Unwise investment projects could be easier avoided and harder to cover up when they run into trouble

Point 1 is reasonable and is certainly a truism. However there's very little evidence or even a suggestion of corruption or fraud within the GAA. Payments to managers is a separate issue that publishing accounts won't necessarily help at all.

Point 2 has some degree of merit also and the GAA has looked at financial balancing between counties but the issue usually falls back on the manner in which teams are traditionally funded in the GAA. Private funding tends to be the major source of income and covers things like gym memberships etc. Possibly a reduction in Central Council funding for "richer" counties would help to address the imbalance but publishing the accounts in the manner prescribed wouldn't be the answer to that issue either. It is, unfortunately, a problem requiring a far more detailed and fundamental change in how GAA finances work from club level up.

Point 3, the investment projects. Again all this information is available for anyone who is bothered to go and be involved. There was mention of company accounts being furnished to the CRO. The same thing has to happen for charities such as the GAA. They file the same types of accounts and make them available online also in their annual financial report.

HanaleiJ5N

I didn't realise the GAA's "greatness" was so precarious on account of this issue, and sorry OP but I have to agree with the previous poster that you haven't really made any real argument for your proposal.

I think the GAA has bigger problems. For example, the club player is screwed over year after year. Putting entire county championships on hold to suit the 1% of players within that county on inter-county panels is completely unfair.

Even if accounts were to be published, we all know that there are plenty of loopholes, accounts don't give a clear picture. We all know many clubs pay high "expenses" to outside managers, and we can all imagine a multitude of ways that can be explained away in accounts.

Xenophile

Boom__Boom wrote: »

Putting the financial reports online would make it far far easier to access for anyone who wants to. It would cost clubs very little and would be massively beneficial for everyone in the GAA in terms of openness.

The counties generally aren't too bad but in a lot of clubs it can happen that there is very little oversight and there are poor controls in place in terms of spending. Most of the time this isn't a problem (probably 99% of the time) but in some cases it can (and does) lead to issues. A fair few clubs around the country got in trouble with overambitous plans and spending because no-one was paying attention to the finances. Look at the disaster that is the PUC stadium project and look at the secrecy there in relation to financial issues - no-one in Cork GAA knows what the country secretary is being paid in terms of salary and benefits and the last meeting they had about the financial status of the stadium project the media weren't allowed in and only club delegates were allowed in. This project is already €13.4m over budget and the overage is likely to increase.

Think of it this way - anyone who is hiding something in relation to financial affairs will definitely want as few people as possible looking at the financial reports.

Boom__Boom wrote: »

It would be extremely easy and cheap for clubs to do and it would make the club accounts far more accessible for club members instead of the annual club accounts only being available at the AGM, every club member would be able to access the accounts 24/7 365 days a year. On it's own simply publishing the accounts is not going to be any magic bullet that is going to solve the range of issues facing clubs.

However anything you look at in relation to fraud/corruption says the more transparency the less fraud/corruption.

An awful lot of the GAA is reliant on sponsorship and/or fundraising - I'd imagine that for a lot of business folk they would be that bit more willing to donate/increase their contribution if they were more confident that the funds were being used effectively and fairly and there was openness about where the money was going. If you are going to a business looking for sponsorship and you can tell them "well the club publishes the annual audited financial accounts on the club website" or "the accounts are only available if you come to the AGM" I'm sure they would be more likely to donate/increase their contribution in the first situation.

The main thing is for me is that it would require very little effort from the clubs and various different organisational units to do this and there would be close to zero disadvantages of doing it.

The above poster supports the proposition quite eloquently !

Yes definitely my own view, where any organisation or institution opposes transparency it is usually that they want certain information hidden or withheld from the public!

Also my view, that any posters here opposing transparency in the GAA either know nothing about the GAA or on the other hand they may know too much.

Xenophile

HanaleiJ5N wrote: »

Even if accounts were to be published, we all know that there are plenty of loopholes, accounts don't give a clear picture. We all know many clubs pay high "expenses" to outside managers, and we can all imagine a multitude of ways that can be explained away in accounts.

There are many decent life long members in the GAA who are appalled at the amount of money paid to non playing personnel.

In many instances the recipients of these payments are not even members of any club within the county that are making the payments!

ProudDUB

Xenophile wrote: »

The above poster supports the proposition quite eloquently !

Yes definitely my own view, where any organisation or institution opposes transparency it is usually that they want certain information hidden or withheld from the public!

Also my view, that any posters here opposing transparency in the GAA either know nothing about the GAA or on the other hand they may know too much.

You started this thread & you have used phrases such as "urgently needed" & "immediately necessary." But so far, you have offered up zero arguments, or any depth thoughts, or made any serious points, to support your cause for serious concern, or even your reason for starting this thread. You also refused to engage with another poster who suggested you do so.

You have belittled others for being overly simplistic, ignorant or having something to hide, for committing the crime of not agreeing with a statement that you have made, but refuse to discuss in any great depth. I'm starting to smell something fishy here & it's not the GAA's finances.

The Lost Sheep

Xenophile wrote: »

The above poster supports the proposition quite eloquently!

Yes definitely my own view, where any organisation or institution opposes transparency it is usually that they want certain information hidden or withheld from the public!

Also my view, that any posters here opposing transparency in the GAA either know nothing about the GAA or on the other hand they may know too much.

Your argument is nonsense. Please add actual facts to back up your viewpoint. And please stop insulting other posters...
Where are your in-depth points on what changes need to be made?

Xenophile wrote: »

There are many decent life long members in the GAA who are appalled at the amount of money paid to non playing personnel.

In many instances the recipients of these payments are not even members of any club within the county that are making the payments!

Again big generalisations. Those non club members are generally specialists in a field providing a service.

Xenophile

Xenophile wrote: »

There are many decent life long members in the GAA who are appalled at the amount of money paid to non playing personnel.

In many instances the recipients of these payments are not even members of any club within the county that are making the payments!

You clearly have no interest in actually discussing this. For example:

Xenophile wrote: »

Yes definitely my own view, where any organisation or institution opposes transparency it is usually that they want certain information hidden or withheld from the public!

This is an example of your poor thought process. Nothing in that paragraph is necessarily suggestive of something negative. You're just phrasing it in a way to make the GAA seem ominous somehow. It's all just pathetic rhetoric really.

Here's another example:

Xenophile wrote:

There are many decent life long members in the GAA who are appalled at the amount of money paid to non playing personnel.

In many instances the recipients of these payments are not even members of any club within the county that are making the payments!

This statement makes no sense. If the County Board bring in a games development officer for the county or a nutritionist for the senior teams or anyone else then the clubs can bring it up at the next meeting. They can find out whatever they choose.

But here's why everything you've said is utter nonsense: that there is nothing whatsoever inherently wrong with bringing in those people. No matter how much you want to imply otherwise.

Xenophile

ProudDUB wrote: »

You started this thread & you have used phrases such as "urgently needed" & "immediately necessary." But so far, you have offered up zero arguments, or any depth thoughts, or made any serious points, to support your cause for serious concern, or even your reason for starting this thread. You also refused to engage with another poster who suggested you do so.

You have belittled others for being overly simplistic, ignorant or having something to hide, for committing the crime of not agreeing with a statement that you have made, but refuse to discuss in any great depth. I'm starting to smell something fishy here & it's not the GAA's finances.

"There are none so blind as those who will not see" I am amazed at the invective my post has created. Would the same people be happy with non-transparency in Government finances?

Ignorant is not a word I have used in any post. But in asking you to re-read my posts would be pointless as you do not see any need for transparency!

Xenophile

Deleted User wrote: »

You clearly have no interest in actually discussing this. For example:



This is an example of your poor thought process. Nothing in that paragraph is necessarily suggestive of something negative. You're just phrasing it in a way to make the GAA seem ominous somehow. It's all just pathetic rhetoric really.

Here's another example:



This statement makes no sense. If the County Board bring in a games development officer for the county or a nutritionist for the senior teams or anyone else then the clubs can bring it up at the next meeting. They can find out whatever they choose.

there is nothing whatsoever inherently wrong with bringing in those people.

Poor thought processes, that's a joke!

Nothing at all wrong with bringing in these people, just let us know how much they are being paid?

Xenophile

Xenophile wrote: »

Poor thought processes, that's a joke!

Nothing at all wrong with bringing in these people, just let us know how much they are being paid?

Three questions from this:

Do you think they are being overpaid or suspect something untoward is going on with them?

Why is it insufficient to simply go along and ask at the county board meeting?

How will knowing their wage maintain the GAA's position as the great organisation it is?

Pride Fighter

Keep it civil folks.

Mod warning.

The Lost Sheep

Xenophile wrote: »

"There are none so blind as those who will not see" I am amazed at the invective my post has created. Would the same people be happy with non-transparency in Government finances?

Ignorant is not a word I have used in any post. But in asking you to re-read my posts would be pointless as you do not see any need for transparency!

You persist with the word transparency but just publishing this information isnt any way effective and why should they publish this?
All clubs see county finances at AGMs etc and
Your comparison with government finances is nonsense and completely different to this issue.
This financial information is available to delegates at county agms and club members at club agms. They dont need or should be published anywhere

howiya

Xenophile wrote: »

"There are none so blind as those who will not see" I am amazed at the invective my post has created. Would the same people be happy with non-transparency in Government finances?

Ignorant is not a word I have used in any post. But in asking you to re-read my posts would be pointless as you do not see any need for transparency!

Can I ask are you a paid up member of a GAA club? And if so what issues have you encountered with gaining information about your club's finances?

iDave

Shame people don't get so worked up about issues like burnout and poor scheduling that are actually driving people away from the association.

bruschi

iDave wrote: »

Shame people don't get so worked up about issues like burnout and poor scheduling that are actually driving people away from the association.

Because transparency and stuff. If we are transparent then it will work.

Transparent
+
GAA
=
Good

It's obvious?

nice_guy80

I really don't see where the lack of transparency is?

Every club has its accounts pored over by members. And trust me, they are very quick to spot anything unusual

County Board accounts are audited by auditors and put in front of clubs for scrutiny

Xenophile

How much is Paul Cullen being paid in his new role with the Dublin Football Team? Go on, somebody tell me he is doing this a GAA volunteer!

nice_guy80

Xenophile wrote: »

How much is Paul Cullen being paid in his new role with the Dublin Football Team? Go on, somebody tell me he is doing this a GAA volunteer!

He's not.
County Boards are free to appoint people.
Dublin GAA has a big budget.

Clare GAA also have someone in the same role

bruschi

Xenophile wrote: »

How much is Paul Cullen being paid in his new role with the Dublin Football Team? Go on, somebody tell me he is doing this a GAA volunteer!

should he do it for free? Much like your points on the TV rights thread, you expect everything to be free. Why would someone give a career to the GAA and do it for free just because, GAA? He is qualified in his role and it is a full time job for him. What way are his wages relevant?

Most of these expenditures are presented at county conventions, and many county boards make them available online. They might not give the specific wage of an individial, but I dont disagree with that. Why should Bryan Cullens wages be public interest?

ArielAtom

Xenophile wrote: »

How much is Paul Cullen being paid in his new role with the Dublin Football Team? Go on, somebody tell me he is doing this a GAA volunteer!

Who is this Paul Cullen lad, what's his role??????