Total Financial Transparency Immediately Necessary To Keep The GAA Great.

Xenophile

Total Financial Transparency Immediately Necessary To Keep The GAA The Great Organisation that it is.

We have a great association in the GAA, and to keep it great what is urgently required is total financial transparency from the bottom up i.e. from Club Level all the way at all levels to Croke Park.

All clubs, County Boards, Provincial Boards, Divisional Boards etc. should be obliged to publish their Annual Financial Report on their websites.

Stoner

Could you make a more convincing argument?
why is it urgently needed, why will it keep it great?

Over and above satisfying a curiosity what benefits would it bring to the game.

Is this driven by the IFA, FAI, FIFA ?

Green Peter

Ah! Sure we'll just wait for the scandal so, typical Ireland!

Xenophile

Stoner wrote: »

Could you make a more convincing argument?
why is it urgently needed, why will it keep it great?

Over and above satisfying a curiosity what benefits would it bring to the game.

Is this driven by the IFA, FAI, FIFA ?

Can you name one voluntary organisation that would not work better with greater transparency?

Stoner

I don't know I'm not an expert. Did a paper a long time ago on charities posting such figures, it all seemed great at the time , look what's happened since. Didn't do them much good, we still give to charities that only send under 20% to the causes. They still fudged the numbers, and a whistle blower was needed to expose some inflated salaries and "bonus" payments to senior staff.

That said my own club was hit by something in the 1970 and never really recovered.

I don't know if the posted figures will mean anything as they could so easily be manipulated. Also I'd be concerned about how some volunteers would respond to same with respect to how they value the time they give up to the games. That is a complex equation in itself and delicate.
I could be convinced though, I just need more than a statement and a question back to me on it.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Won't make any difference.

The books can just be manipulated whether they are published for general consumption or not.

ProudDUB

Yep. You need your head examined if you think that financial transparency will mean that we'll get to see how much money high profile managers & coaches are being paid under the table.

doc_17

County boards have accounts at county convention. Clubs have them at their AGM. A little bit more transperancy at the top would be nice. For instance, how does Paraic Duffy get paid?

The Lost Sheep

Xenophile wrote: »

Total Financial Transparency Immediately Necessary To Keep The GAA The Great Organisation that it is.

We have a great association in the GAA, and to keep it great what is urgently required is total financial transparency from the bottom up i.e. from Club Level all the way at all levels to Croke Park.

All clubs, County Boards, Provincial Boards, Divisional Boards etc. should be obliged to publish their Annual Financial Report on their websites.

All shouldn't have to publish their AFR on their website. What obligation are they under to do so?
What does it mean for them to publish the report online. County boards have accounts at county convention. Clubs have them at their AGM. Why publish them? For what end?
Reports can always be adapted to hide money elsewhere...

nice_guy80

I think financial fair play such as in the NFL in America would help to rebalance the GAA.
Stricter budgets for all teams.
Too many gurus and hangers-on making money off county teams.

There are some county boards spending too much money to keep up with those able to generate much larger sums through gates and sponsorship and things like gala dinners in America.

Fairer distribution of funds based on performance in the Championship
EG Westmeath got €1000 from the Leinster Council for reaching the Leinster Final last year. That is ridiculous.

listermint

Is this one of 'those threads'




Or will this thread be able to address the lack of quality players in some counties that all the financial publishing or fair play not address at all ever ?




I wonder.

nice_guy80

listermint wrote: »

Is this one of 'those threads'

Or will this thread be able to address the lack of quality players in some counties that all the financial publishing or fair play not address at all ever ?

I wonder.

Dublin players get meals delivered to them everyday
what other county can afford that? (i'm not picking on Dublin here)

if you take a county like Leitrim, most of their panel probably aren't even living in the county full time.

the lack of money in counties to properly develop their players from ages 14 - 21 is a HUGE issue.
If the likes of Longford were guaranteed a set amount for the adult county team from central funding, they could put their resources into underage development (which they are doing very well with in football, despite their small numbers)

Xenophile

Xenophile wrote: »

Can you name one voluntary organisation that would not work better with greater transparency?

Women's Aid

But ignoring that pointless rhetorical question - what do you think is missing from the transparency that's there? Financial statements are released and discussed at all AGMs. The GAA publish theirs on the website for public consumption. So I suppose the real questions are:

1. What is lacking in your view from the current regime?

2. How would rectifying those issues improve the GAA?

ProudDUB

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Dublin players get meals delivered to them everyday
what other county can afford that? (i'm not picking on Dublin here)

if you take a county like Leitrim, most of their panel probably aren't even living in the county full time.

the lack of money in counties to properly develop their players from ages 14 - 21 is a HUGE issue.
If the likes of Longford were guaranteed a set amount for the adult county team from central funding, they could put their resources into underage development (which they are doing very well with in football, despite their small numbers)

Of all the bull$hit rumours out there about the Dubs, I think that's one of my favourites. Along with Cian O'Sullivan having a cryotherapy chamber and an ice machine delivered to his house, before last years AI final. :rollseyes:

The Gourmet Food Parlour in Swords cater post training meals. (A lot of other counties have a similar set up, with hotels, restaurant and catering companies.) They certainly aren't delivering 3 square meals a day, to players houses and jobs.

nice_guy80

ProudDUB wrote: »

Of all the bull$hit rumours out there about the Dubs, I think that's one of my favourites. Along with Cian O'Sullivan having a cryotherapy chamber and an ice machine delivered to his house, before last years AI final.

The Gourmet Food Parlour in Swords cater post training meals. (A lot of other counties have a similar set up, with hotels, restaurant and catering companies.) They certainly aren't delivering 3 square meals a day, to players houses and jobs. :rolleyes:

Ok.
I'm just quoting what I read in interviews over the summer with regard to county players

ProudDUB

Well if u could point me in the general direction of the interview where a Dublin player spoke about getting all his meals delivered to him, I'd be very grateful. :rolleyes:

doc_17

It would be nice to know how much Pauric Duffy gets paid!

Boom__Boom

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

All shouldn't have to publish their AFR on their website. What obligation are they under to do so?
What does it mean for them to publish the report online. County boards have accounts at county convention. Clubs have them at their AGM. Why publish them? For what end?
Reports can always be adapted to hide money elsewhere...

Putting the financial reports online would make it far far easier to access for anyone who wants to. It would cost clubs very little and would be massively beneficial for everyone in the GAA in terms of openness.

The counties generally aren't too bad but in a lot of clubs it can happen that there is very little oversight and there are poor controls in place in terms of spending. Most of the time this isn't a problem (probably 99% of the time) but in some cases it can (and does) lead to issues. A fair few clubs around the country got in trouble with overambitous plans and spending because no-one was paying attention to the finances. Look at the disaster that is the PUC stadium project and look at the secrecy there in relation to financial issues - no-one in Cork GAA knows what the country secretary is being paid in terms of salary and benefits and the last meeting they had about the financial status of the stadium project the media weren't allowed in and only club delegates were allowed in. This project is already €13.4m over budget and the overage is likely to increase.

Think of it this way - anyone who is hiding something in relation to financial affairs will definitely want as few people as possible looking at the financial reports.

DoctaDee

ProudDUB wrote: »

Well if u could point me in the general direction of the interview where a Dublin player spoke about getting all his meals delivered to him, I'd be very grateful. :rolleyes:

Both Philly & Kev Mc are in the business of prepared meals, the Dub players on the twitter machine doff a hat at both from time to time regards their food parcels arriving... to deduce they're getting them for free and 3 times a day is a fair leap :rolleyes:

ProudDUB

Kev Mc has a meat & poultry delivery business, of the raw, uncooked variety. To extrapolate that into delivering 3 cooked meals a day, is an even bigger stretch. Shamrock Rovers and the DCU footballers are paying customers of Phillys food company. The Dublin Co Board isn't. A few of his team mates give his company the odd plug on Twitter, every now and then, but that's about it.

I love seeing how all these silly rumours grow legs and suddenly become "fact," because someone read something in the paper, or saw something on the internet. :rolleyes:

jack presley

nice_guy80 wrote: »

I think financial fair play such as in the NFL in America would help to rebalance the GAA.
Stricter budgets for all teams.
Too many gurus and hangers-on making money off county teams.

Are you really comparing the GAA to a professional league with revenues of over $10 billion a year?

And their 'fair play' is restricted to player salaries and doesn't cover the the gurus and hangers on that you want transparency over.

DoctaDee

ProudDUB wrote: »

Kev Mc has a meat & poultry delivery business, of the raw, uncooked variety. To extrapolate that into delivering 3 cooked meals a day, is an even bigger stretch. .............

Indeed yer right .. the BIL actually services his refrigerated van

ProudDUB

Yep. Fresh Foods Direct.

http://www.ffd.ie/

" Delivering Value Direct To Your Door."

September Special.

If you're a Kerry or a Mayo footballer, we'll also deliver heartbreak and despair, direct to your door. At no extra charge. Contact kevin@ffd.ie today. Don't delay.

The Lost Sheep

nice_guy80 wrote: »

I think financial fair play such as in the NFL in America would help to rebalance the GAA.
Stricter budgets for all teams.
Too many gurus and hangers-on making money off county teams.

There are some county boards spending too much money to keep up with those able to generate much larger sums through gates and sponsorship and things like gala dinners in America.

Fairer distribution of funds based on performance in the Championship
EG Westmeath got €1000 from the Leinster Council for reaching the Leinster Final last year. That is ridiculous.

One is a professional league with income of billions the other is completely amateur. Financial fair play isn't going to happen. Who are these "gurus" and "hangers-on" making money off county teams?
How do you want a more fairer distribution of funds to happen?

Boom__Boom wrote: »

Putting the financial reports online would make it far far easier to access for anyone who wants to. It would cost clubs very little and would be massively beneficial for everyone in the GAA in terms of openness.

The counties generally aren't too bad but in a lot of clubs it can happen that there is very little oversight and there are poor controls in place in terms of spending. Most of the time this isn't a problem (probably 99% of the time) but in some cases it can (and does) lead to issues. A fair few clubs around the country got in trouble with overambitous plans and spending because no-one was paying attention to the finances. Look at the disaster that is the PUC stadium project and look at the secrecy there in relation to financial issues - no-one in Cork GAA knows what the country secretary is being paid in terms of salary and benefits and the last meeting they had about the financial status of the stadium project the media weren't allowed in and only club delegates were allowed in. This project is already €13.4m over budget and the overage is likely to increase.

Think of it this way - anyone who is hiding something in relation to financial affairs will definitely want as few people as possible looking at the financial reports.

Putting these reports online achieves nothing though and these reports are for club members and there is no reason to do it. It wont effect change in relation to clubs/counties being overambitious etc

Victor

Xenophile wrote: »

Total Financial Transparency

All clubs, County Boards, Provincial Boards, Divisional Boards etc. should be obliged to publish their Annual Financial Report on their websites.

You do realise that these are two different things?

DoctaDee

Boom__Boom wrote: »

.....................

The counties generally aren't too bad but in a lot of clubs it can happen that there is very little oversight and there are poor controls in place in terms of spending. Most of the time this isn't a problem (probably 99% of the time) but in some cases it can (and does) lead to issues. A fair few clubs around the country got in trouble with overambitous plans and spending because no-one was paying attention to the finances. ..........................

Think of it this way - anyone who is hiding something in relation to financial affairs will definitely want as few people as possible looking at the financial reports.

One of the biggest drains I've seen on a clubs finances in recent years is the misuse of the "Player Injury Scheme". A club close to me were doling out a 5 figure sum annually to lads that were heading to physiotherapists for the rub down of tight hamstrings, bumps and bruises etc and honouring the receipt for professional fees.

I make no bones about it being involved in the juvenile side of things, those unnecessary visits are keeping matchballs and kit from the underage teams in my eyes anyways

Boom__Boom

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Putting these reports online achieves nothing though and these reports are for club members and there is no reason to do it. It wont effect change in relation to clubs/counties being overambitious etc

It would be extremely easy and cheap for clubs to do and it would make the club accounts far more accessible for club members instead of the annual club accounts only being available at the AGM, every club member would be able to access the accounts 24/7 365 days a year. On it's own simply publishing the accounts is not going to be any magic bullet that is going to solve the range of issues facing clubs.

However anything you look at in relation to fraud/corruption says the more transparency the less fraud/corruption.

An awful lot of the GAA is reliant on sponsorship and/or fundraising - I'd imagine that for a lot of business folk they would be that bit more willing to donate/increase their contribution if they were more confident that the funds were being used effectively and fairly and there was openness about where the money was going. If you are going to a business looking for sponsorship and you can tell them "well the club publishes the annual audited financial accounts on the club website" or "the accounts are only available if you come to the AGM" I'm sure they would be more likely to donate/increase their contribution in the first situation.

The main thing is for me is that it would require very little effort from the clubs and various different organisational units to do this and there would be close to zero disadvantages of doing it.

The Lost Sheep

Boom__Boom wrote: »

It would be extremely easy and cheap for clubs to do and it would make the club accounts far more accessible for club members instead of the annual club accounts only being available at the AGM, every club member would be able to access the accounts 24/7 365 days a year. On it's own simply publishing the accounts is not going to be any magic bullet that is going to solve the range of issues facing clubs.

However anything you look at in relation to fraud/corruption says the more transparency the less fraud/corruption.

An awful lot of the GAA is reliant on sponsorship and/or fundraising - I'd imagine that for a lot of business folk they would be that bit more willing to donate/increase their contribution if they were more confident that the funds were being used effectively and fairly and there was openness about where the money was going. If you are going to a business looking for sponsorship and you can tell them "well the club publishes the annual audited financial accounts on the club website" or "the accounts are only available if you come to the AGM" I'm sure they would be more likely to donate/increase their contribution in the first situation.

The main thing is for me is that it would require very little effort from the clubs and various different organisational units to do this and there would be close to zero disadvantages of doing it.

But what does a club benefit from this? You should have to be a member to access these accounts. If members do not want to attend an AGM or find the information from committee members why are they entitled to get this information.
Publishing accounts does nothing towards solving any issue or create a more transparent set up. The accounts are already freely available to all members who want to see them.

Xenophile

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

But what does a club benefit from this? You should have to be a member to access these accounts. If members do not want to attend an AGM or find the information from committee members why are they entitled to get this information.
Publishing accounts does nothing towards solving any issue or create a more transparent set up. The accounts are already freely available to all members who want to see them.

Your contribution is overly simplistic and does not reflect reality!

The Lost Sheep

Xenophile wrote: »

Your contribution is overly simplistic and does not reflect reality!

How is it "overly simplistic"? A member of a club is perfectly entitled to see the accounts of their club and can do so already but through the official means. This information doesnt and shouldnt have to be freely available.

The Slobs

Boom__Boom wrote: »

Putting the financial reports online would make it far far easier to access for anyone who wants to. It would cost clubs very little and would be massively beneficial for everyone in the GAA in terms of openness.

The counties generally aren't too bad but in a lot of clubs it can happen that there is very little oversight and there are poor controls in place in terms of spending.


If people are that interested in their clubs finances maybe they should try going to the agm and they can ask questions directly and have a copy of the financial report to take home with them.