Direct Debits from Non-Irish Accounts

Yggr of Asgard

Breaking this off the Number 26 tread because maybe it's time we list the known acceptance/non acceptance.


Refusing to accept non-irish accounts

• Sky see http://www.boards.ie/ttfthread/2057539002
• GloHealth
• Greenstar
• Magnet Broadband (thanks to ceroc81)

Accepting non-irish accounts online

• UPC
• IDMobile

Accepting non-irish accounts via paper mandate

• Energia (new)
• Three
• Zurich Insurance
• AIG Insurance
• Avantcard
• Irish water (required verbal confirmation, thanks to ceroc81)

murphaph

Let's just add to the lists...

Refusing to accept non-irish accounts

• Sky see http://www.boards.ie/ttfthread/2057539002
• GloHealth
• Greenstar
• Magnet Broadband (thanks to ceroc81)

Accepting non-irish accounts online

• UPC
• IDMobile
• Revenue Commissioners

Accepting non-irish accounts via paper mandate

• Energia (new)
• Three
• Zurich Insurance
• AIG Insurance
• Avantcard
• Irish water (required verbal confirmation, thanks to ceroc81)
• Ulster Bank Mortgages
• AIB credit card payments

RonyPonyBah

Adding Meteor to the list.

Refusing to accept non-irish accounts

• Sky see http://www.boards.ie/ttfthread/2057539002
• GloHealth
• Greenstar
• Magnet Broadband (thanks to ceroc81)
• Meteor

Accepting non-irish accounts online

• UPC
• IDMobile
• Revenue Commissioners

Accepting non-irish accounts via paper mandate

• Energia (new)
• Three
• Zurich Insurance
• AIG Insurance
• Avantcard
• Irish water (required verbal confirmation, thanks to ceroc81)
• Ulster Bank Mortgages
• AIB credit card payments

JTMan

For the "Refusing to accept non-irish accounts" (i.e. breaking the law) section, can we please add what we are doing about it? Perhaps, a name of a person addressing it or a thread.

For example, for GloHealth, Yggr of Asgard has a complaint with them.

For Meteor, can a Meteor customer please get a thread going in the Talk to Meteor Boards.ie forum about their lack of SEPA compliance?

Yggr of Asgard

Added the Meteor Thread Link

Refusing to accept non-irish accounts

• Sky see http://www.boards.ie/ttfthread/2057539002
• GloHealth
• Greenstar
• Magnet Broadband (thanks to ceroc81)
• Meteor see http://www.boards.ie/ttfthread/2057540834

Accepting non-irish accounts online

• UPC
• IDMobile
• Revenue Commissioners

Accepting non-irish accounts via paper mandate

• Energia (new)
• Three
• Zurich Insurance
• AIG Insurance
• Avantcard
• Irish water (required verbal confirmation, thanks to ceroc81)
• Ulster Bank Mortgages
• AIB credit card payments

ceroc81

I can confirm Bord Gais Energy does not support non-Irish BIC/IBAN just got of the phone with Customer Support agent, they had no idea when they would be able to support it.

Who should we report these companies for non-SEPA compliance? Is there an email that we can use?

murphaph

ceroc81 wrote: »

I can confirm Bord Gais Energy does not support non-Irish BIC/IBAN just got of the phone with Customer Support agent, they had no idea when they would be able to support it.

Who should we report these companies for non-SEPA compliance? Is there an email that we can use?

Maybe add it to the list so the latest list is always up to date.

JTMan

ceroc81 wrote: »

I can confirm Bord Gais Energy does not support non-Irish BIC/IBAN just got of the phone with Customer Support agent, they had no idea when they would be able to support it.

Who should we report these companies for non-SEPA compliance? Is there an email that we can use?

Yes, report / complain.

Firstly, ask Bord Gais Energy to explain why they are not SEPA compliant in writing. Ask them for a final response letter.

Then, complain to the Central Bank of Ireland.

Sparko

I'm surprised to be honest, we operate direct debits in work and although none of our customers have to date provided us with anything other than Irish BIC & IBAN details I was of the understanding that it wouldn't be a problem and our existing DD software would accept other SEPA compliant accounts from across Europe. Maybe there's more involved, I might try and find a guinea pig among some of our European partners to do a test to see if there is something I'm missing.

josephsoap

Has anyone tried to pay Electric Ireland DD via number 26 bank a/c?

Just posted off the mandate myself, fingers crossed :-)

ceroc81

josephsoap wrote: »

Has anyone tried to pay Electric Ireland DD via number 26 bank a/c?

Just posted off the mandate myself, fingers crossed :-)

It should work based on this:
http://touch.boards.ie/thread/post/95420759
But keep us in the loop of the progress

Yggr of Asgard

Added Board Gais to refuse and Electric Ireland to with paper mandate

Refusing to accept non-irish accounts

• Sky see http://www.boards.ie/ttfthread/2057539002
• GloHealth
• Greenstar
• Magnet Broadband (thanks to ceroc81)
• Meteor see http://www.boards.ie/ttfthread/2057540834
• Bord Gais Energy

Accepting non-irish accounts online

• UPC
• IDMobile
• Revenue Commissioners

Accepting non-irish accounts via paper mandate

• Energia (new)
• Three
• Zurich Insurance
• AIG Insurance
• Avantcard
• Irish water (required verbal confirmation, thanks to ceroc81)
• Ulster Bank Mortgages
• AIB credit card payments
• Electric Ireland as per http://www.boards.ie/ttfthread/2057427200/1#post95420759

ceroc81

Sparko wrote: »

I'm surprised to be honest, we operate direct debits in work and although none of our customers have to date provided us with anything other than Irish BIC & IBAN details I was of the understanding that it wouldn't be a problem and our existing DD software would accept other SEPA compliant accounts from across Europe. Maybe there's more involved, I might try and find a guinea pig among some of our European partners to do a test to see if there is something I'm missing.

Could it have to do with that the BIC is 11 characters long?

The BIC is WIREDEMXXX where the last 3 characters is optional and XXX means primary office (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_9362 ) so I wonder if we would be using WIREDEM instead they would accept it?


I noticed that bonkers.ie doesnt support more than 8 characters either.

Edit: looks like WIREDEM would be mapped to Hungary so guess its not an option..
Country Bank BIC Bank code Address
HU WIRECARD Bank AG WIREDEMM 19200002 8563 Grassbrunn

Yggr of Asgard

ceroc81 wrote: »

Could it have to do with that the BIC is 11 characters long?

The BIC is WIREDEMXXX where the last 3 characters is optional and XXX means primary office (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_9362 ) so I wonder if we would be using WIREDEM instead they would accept it?


I noticed that bonkers.ie doesnt support more than 8 characters either.

Edit: looks like WIREDEM would be mapped to Hungary so guess its not an option..
Country Bank BIC Bank code Address
HU WIRECARD Bank AG WIREDEMM 19200002 8563 Grassbrunn

BIC only matters until 1 February 2016 at which the Irish Waiver for IBAN only expires.

SEPA is designed to work without BIC, in fact inner Irish transactions since 1 February 2014 are done without BIC and as of 1 February 2016 cross border payments are IBAN only too.

Bhangraman

JTMan wrote: »

Yes, report / complain.

Firstly, ask Bord Gais Energy to explain why they are not SEPA compliant in writing. Ask them for a final response letter.

Then, complain to the Central Bank of Ireland.

I am still trying to force them to accept my details by email. Last email I sent them on 4 Jan (to which I did not get a reply yet) was:

"Under EU law, SEPA came into force last year for EUR payments in 26 countries including Ireland.

I would like to make a EUR SEPA Direct Debit payment. By law, you need to be SEPA compliant for EUR payments.

Can you please advise as to why you are not complying with the law on this point? Can you please escalate this ticket with your compliance department and management?

Alternatively, please advise if this is your final response on the matter? If so, I will be making a complaint to the Central Bank of Ireland. "

ceroc81

Bhangraman wrote: »

I am still trying to force them to accept my details by email. Last email I sent them on 4 Jan (to which I did not get a reply yet) was:

"Under EU law, SEPA came into force last year for EUR payments in 26 countries including Ireland.

I would like to make a EUR SEPA Direct Debit payment. By law, you need to be SEPA compliant for EUR payments.

Can you please advise as to why you are not complying with the law on this point? Can you please escalate this ticket with your compliance department and management?

Alternatively, please advise if this is your final response on the matter? If so, I will be making a complaint to the Central Bank of Ireland. "

I'm already in the process of talking/emailing the Central Bank, I agreed with them that they could use my name when talking to Bord Gais Energy regarding the breach of regulation for DD SEPA payments.

I had another chat with a CS agent and they said that the BIC that Number26 is using is not in the "approved" list in their system and that adding new BICs is not very common and takes months so hopefully the Central Bank can push things along quicker..

JTMan

ceroc81 wrote: »

I'm already in the process of talking/emailing the Central Bank, I agreed with them that they could use my name when talking to Bord Gais Energy regarding the breach of regulation for DD SEPA payments.

I had another chat with a CS agent and they said that the BIC that Number26 is using is not in the "approved" list in their system and that adding new BICs is not very common and takes months so hopefully the Central Bank can push things along quicker..

Well done for taking this to the Central Bank of Ireland. Great to hear that the Central Bank of Ireland are taking on your case and have engaged with Bord Gais Energy for their SEPA breach.

Adding a BIC into a payment system should take minutes. Bord Gais Energy clearly have a poor payments / invoicing system.

Yggr of Asgard

JTMan wrote: »

Well done for taking this to the Central Bank of Ireland. Great to hear that the Central Bank of Ireland are taking on your case and have engaged with Bord Gais Energy for their SEPA breach.

Adding a BIC into a payment system should take minutes. Bord Gais Energy clearly have a poor payments / invoicing system.

There is no need for a BIC, yes Ireland has a waiver that allows it to continue using BIC until 1 February 2016 but IBAN is all that is needed. Latest 1 February the "BIC wont work/is not in system" is no longer an excuse.

The IBAN includes all information that is needed to process a payment through SEPA, BIC's were only needed in the beginning that requirement has fallen away long time ago. Sure Ireland is a little behind but in a couple of weeks that is no longer the case.

JTMan

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

There is no need for a BIC, yes Ireland has a waiver that allows it to continue using BIC until 1 February 2016 but IBAN is all that is needed. Latest 1 February the "BIC wont work/is not in system" is no longer an excuse.

The IBAN includes all information that is needed to process a payment through SEPA, BIC's were only needed in the beginning that requirement has fallen away long time ago. Sure Ireland is a little behind but in a couple of weeks that is no longer the case.

My hunch is that there is widespread ignorance, amongst Irish companies, of the new SEPA rules that come into play on 1 February 2016. There has been a complete lack of publicity and distributed information about this SEPA phase.

Will companies change all their systems and paper forms to only look for an IBAN on 1 February 2016? You can bet that compliance with the new SEPA phase will be far from 100%.

28064212

JTMan wrote: »

Will companies change all their systems and paper forms to only look for an IBAN on 1 February 2016? You can bet that compliance with the new SEPA phase will be far from 100%.

Tbh, I'll be surprised if the banks' systems are up-to-date to manage the change on February 1st, never mind the companies

Grab All Association

Bhangraman wrote: »

I am still trying to force them to accept my details by email. Last email I sent them on 4 Jan (to which I did not get a reply yet) was:

"Under EU law, SEPA came into force last year for EUR payments in 26 countries including Ireland.

I would like to make a EUR SEPA Direct Debit payment. By law, you need to be SEPA compliant for EUR payments.

Can you please advise as to why you are not complying with the law on this point? Can you please escalate this ticket with your compliance department and management?

Alternatively, please advise if this is your final response on the matter? If so, I will be making a complaint to the Central Bank of Ireland. "

I'd report them to the CER too

Bhangraman

Any luck with waste companies? Getting started with Panda and first time they hear about SEPA it seems.

Panda just confirmed that they don't support transfer to Non-Irish accounts at present and that you have to pay your bill by card online in the meantime.
They said they just started the process of upgrading their IT systems and the work should be complete in 2-3 months. I have flagged a reminder to follow-up with them after that timeframe.

ceroc81

Small update, I dont know if its due to Central Bank or not but got this email today:

Hi XXXXXX,

Thanks for your recent email to Bord Gáis Energy.

As an update from my email to you yesterday we have requested that the BIC be added to our systems so we can update your bank details.

The complaint has now been in closed in regards to this.

Once the BIC has been added I will update your direct debit details and contact you to confirm this.

If there’s anything else we can help you with, just reply to this email and we’ll be happy to help. If you’d like to speak to one of our team, simply call us on 1850 632 632. We’re available 8am to 8pm Monday to Friday, or 9am to 5:30pm on Saturdays.

The Bord Gáis Energy Team

So I guess we can add Bord Gais to the supported list. (yay)

Yggr of Asgard

ceroc81 wrote: »

Small update, I dont know if its due to Central Bank or not but got this email today:


So I guess we can add Bord Gais to the supported list. (yay)

Congratulations and thanks for pushing.

Is that with paper mandate or online?

ceroc81

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

Congratulations and thanks for pushing.

Is that with paper mandate or online?

That would be with paper mandate that's how I originally sent the mandate, just checked the online option and still only has Irish banks.

Yggr of Asgard

Moved Board Gais to with paper mandate

Refusing to accept non-irish accounts

• Sky see http://www.boards.ie/ttfthread/2057539002
• GloHealth
• Greenstar
• Magnet Broadband (thanks to ceroc81)
• Meteor see http://www.boards.ie/ttfthread/2057540834

Accepting non-irish accounts online

• UPC
• IDMobile
• Revenue Commissioners

Accepting non-irish accounts via paper mandate

• Energia (new)
• Three
• Zurich Insurance
• AIG Insurance
• Avantcard
• Irish water (required verbal confirmation, thanks to ceroc81)
• Ulster Bank Mortgages
• AIB credit card payments
• Electric Ireland as per http://www.boards.ie/ttfthread/2057427200/1#post95420759
• Bord Gais Energy as per http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=98401972&postcount=23

Yggr of Asgard

Update on GloHealth, they have issued a final letter refusing to take non Irish accounts.

The Central bank informed me that they do not deal with individual complaints and have referred me to the Financial Ombudsman where I have now logged a complaint.

Let's see if that helps.

JTMan

Shocking that GloHealth have issued a final response letter saying they are not going to comply with the law on SEPA. Awful treatment by GloHealth.

Hopefully, the Financial Ombudsman understands SEPA (one would hope so) and deals with this appropriately with GloHealth.

Carawaystick

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

Update on GloHealth, they have issued a final letter refusing to take non Irish accounts.

The Central bank informed me that they do not deal with individual complaints and have referred me to the Financial Ombudsman where I have now logged a complaint.

Does the CB not regulate insurance companies?

Yggr of Asgard

Carawaystick wrote: »

Does the CB not regulate insurance companies?

They do regulate, but the Central Bank does not investigate individual consumer complaints according to them.

Those have to go to the Financial Services Ombudsman.

There is something very strange in the way one can complain in Ireland. My complaint to the central bank will be actioned on, but as they do not investigate individual complaints I have no right to get any info as to what they have done to my complaint. Which is why an individual complaint needs to go to the Financial Services Ombudsman.

They are not alone in this. I recently complaint to the Food Saftey Authority about a certain business and while they took all details they than told me they could not tell me the outcome because of data protection. Yes, they can not tell me what they have done to a business I complained about.

JTMan

Yggr of Asgard wrote: »

There is something very strange in the way one can complain in Ireland. My complaint to the central bank will be actioned on, but as they do not investigate individual complaints I have no right to get any info as to what they have done to my complaint.

Ah, so anyone with a complaint on SEPA should go to both the CBI and the Financial Services Ombudsman.