Force Awakens TheoRey [SPOILERS]

robdonn

WARNING - We will be discussing all of the released Star Wars movies, including the Force Awakens. If you have not seen EpVII yet and you do not want it to be spoiled, come back another day. Also, theories will be suggested that may actually turn out to be true, so there is the potential of ruining future movies.

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED


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OK, I've created this thread so we don''t have to fill the Force Awakens thread with big grey blobs (spoiler tags).

So we now have some hints as to who Rey is and where she came from but we are still frustratingly clueless. So, all theories are welcome as to her origin, her relationship with other characters, etc.

Tigger wrote: »

this is what i believe except i think that her parents think she is dead and that she was hidden by a third side
i also think the one grabbing her was Max von snydo and that he is bobba fett

This is an awesome theory, adding that Leia and Han are her parents, I love the thought that Bobba Fett escaped the sarlacc pit and got his revenge on Han by stealing his daughter. Han and Leia may have even thought that she had died which is why they don't talk about her, appear to ever be looking for her or even suspect that she is their child when they meet her.

Into The Blue

There's already a spoiler thread

robdonn

Into The Blue wrote: »

There's already a spoiler thread

I know, but people are already starting to use spoiler tags in it because they are discussing theories about possible future revelations.

That thread is for people have seen the movie already, but not necessarily for people who want to speculate about the future movies. Or maybe I'm completely wrong, in which case I'll delete this thread.

Tigger

well i think he's right
but i'm him so i would

Into The Blue

The lad is being digested for 1000 years!

Tigger

he's in armour and is awesome he clearly escaped

look here what i found
http://www.flickeringmyth.com/2015/04/disney-makes-it-official-that-boba-fett-survived-the-sarlacc-in-return-of-the-jedi.html

The above image is a screenshot from the Battle of Jakku DLC set to arrive ahead of Star Wars: The Force Awakens, which will depict “the pivotal moment when the New Republic confronted key Imperial holdouts on a remote desert planet on the Outer Rim [and takes place] in the aftermath of the Rebel victory in the Battle of Endor”. You’ll notice that Boba Fett takes centre stage, but look to the top right and you’ll also notice a Star Destroyer crashing to the ground – the very Star Destroyer we see in the trailer for The Force Awakens…

so he';s in a cannon game on Jakku

yay

Cantstandsya

I posted these questions in the movie thread without realising there was a thread here for the specific purpose so just gonna paste them in...


1) Who is Rey? In the build up to the film the talk seemed nailed on that she was Han's daughter... I was waiting for a reveal that never came. Looking back on it there is a moment where Kylo Ren is interrogating her, probing her mind, and he sees an island in the sea. Has Rey been to Luke's planet before? Is she Luke's daughter?

2) Is Snoke actually that tall? I was half expecting a final scene with him being a few inches tall as a big reveal. We've been told he has "obvious weaknesses" but apart from his face I couldn't make out what they might be.

3) There was a rumour that Lupita Nyongyo didn't gel with the CGI acting. That a lot of Maz Kanata's scenes were removed. I had read somewhere else that there was to be a lot more exposition in the flashback scene in her castle... spelling out in more obvious terms what happened with Luke and Kylo. What are other's opinions? It seems to me that they might have removed some answers to allow for a few reveals in the next movie... the obvious one being Rey's background.

4) Where is the Republic? We're told that the first order are being fought by the resistance who are a proxy for the Republic... why aren't the Republic themselves just fighting them?

I think it's good for a movie to leave a few questions but some of them were just too obviously in need of an answer to be left for the sequel. In particular the politics of the galaxy just make no sense to me. I know the last thing anyone wants is more politics in a Star Wars film but the entire first order vs resistance/republic thing makes no sense.

Tigger

Cantstandsya wrote: »

I posted these questions in the movie thread without realising there was a thread here for the specific purpose so just gonna paste them in...


1) Who is Rey? In the build up to the film the talk seemed nailed on that she was Han's daughter... I was waiting for a reveal that never came. Looking back on it there is a moment where Kylo Ren is interrogating her, probing her mind, and he sees an island in the sea. Has Rey been to Luke's planet before? Is she Luke's daughter?

2) Is Snoke actually that tall? I was half expecting a final scene with him being a few inches tall as a big reveal. We've been told he has "obvious weaknesses" but apart from his face I couldn't make out what they might be.

3) There was a rumour that Lupita Nyongyo didn't gel with the CGI acting. That a lot of Maz Kanata's scenes were removed. I had read somewhere else that there was to be a lot more exposition in the flashback scene in her castle... spelling out in more obvious terms what happened with Luke and Kylo. What are other's opinions? It seems to me that they might have removed some answers to allow for a few reveals in the next movie... the obvious one being Rey's background.

4) Where is the Republic? We're told that the first order are being fought by the resistance who are a proxy for the Republic... why aren't the Republic themselves just fighting them?

I think it's good for a movie to leave a few questions but some of them were just too obviously in need of an answer to be left for the sequel. In particular the politics of the galaxy just make no sense to me. I know the last thing anyone wants is more politics in a Star Wars film but the entire first order vs resistance/republic thing makes no sense.

1) She is a granddaughter of Queen Amadalia and Anikin Skywaker shes the image of her and has his powers
either by luke or by leia
she was hidden on that planet by Max Von Snydo who i'm discussing here and i believe to be Boba Fett

2)i'd say he's tiny

4)the republic are the people, some fight back against the oppressors some resist

ShaneU

Tigger wrote: »

she was hidden on that planet by Max Von Snydo who i'm discussing here and i believe to be Boba Fett

He's not Boba Fett, character's name is Lor San Tekka

Cantstandsya wrote: »

I posted these questions in the movie thread without realising there was a thread here for the specific purpose so just gonna paste them in...


1) Who is Rey? In the build up to the film the talk seemed nailed on that she was Han's daughter... I was waiting for a reveal that never came. Looking back on it there is a moment where Kylo Ren is interrogating her, probing her mind, and he sees an island in the sea. Has Rey been to Luke's planet before? Is she Luke's daughter?

2) Is Snoke actually that tall? I was half expecting a final scene with him being a few inches tall as a big reveal. We've been told he has "obvious weaknesses" but apart from his face I couldn't make out what they might be.

1) Either Luke or Leia's daughter. Probably Luke because she seen him touching R2 in her vision

2) It's a hologram so no-one knows, could be yoda size for all we know. We'll find out in the next movie

Red King

Andy Serkis said that Snoke is 7feet tall.

It is pretty obvious that Rey is a Skywalker, there is too many similarities what with her similarity to Leia and Padme, her force abilities, that Anakin/Luke's saber was calling to her, that the Burning Homestead theme music plays when she force grabs the saber, her growing up isolated on a desert planet not knowing her parents...how many more hints do people need?

And Lucas himself stated that Fett escaped the Sarlaac pit...the only problem with the Fett = Von Sydow theory is that Von Sydow is clearly not Maori, which Temuera Morrison is...another reason to hate the prequels

Cantstandsya

Tigger wrote: »

1)

4)the republic are the people, some fight back against the oppressors some resist

Nah the Republic fleet is specifically mentioned at least once (by C3PO) and there is a fleet around one of the planets destroyed by the super weapon.

Tigger

ShaneU wrote: »

He's not Boba Fett, character's name is Lor San Tekka




1) Either Luke or Leia's daughter. Probably Luke because she seen him touching R2 in her vision

2) It's a hologram so no-one knows, could be yoda size for all we know. We'll find out in the next week.

of course he's going by a different name

Tigger

Red King wrote: »

Andy Serkis said that Snoke is 7feet tall.

It is pretty obvious that Rey is a Skywalker, there is too many similarities what with her similarity to Leia and Padme, her force abilities, that Anakin/Luke's saber was calling to her, that the Burning Homestead theme music plays when she force grabs the saber, her growing up isolated on a desert planet not knowing her parents...how many more hints do people need?

And Lucas himself stated that Fett escaped the Sarlaac pit...the only problem with the Fett = Von Sydow theory is that Von Sydow is clearly not Maori, which Temuera Morrison is...another reason to hate the prequels

yeah the prequels

i started thinking he's the same age he's involved his stronghold has fetts symbol front and center and fett is inevitable
then i found the game which is cannon and has fett on the same planet
a little racial disguising later and here's Bobby

Cantstandsya

Red King wrote: »

It is pretty obvious that Rey is a Skywalker, there is too many similarities what with her similarity to Leia and Padme, her force abilities, that Anakin/Luke's saber was calling to her, that the Burning Homestead theme music plays when she force grabs the saber, her growing up isolated on a desert planet not knowing her parents...how many more hints do people need?

I agree it's obvious. It's so obvious that I can't understand why they didn't just say it. I'd imagine they even filmed a scene with it being acknowledged but cut it out just to have something to reveal in the next film.

When I ask "who is Rey" I merely mean is she Leia's or Luke's daughter. It seems a pointless reveal to hold back.

Red King

And suddenly changed ethnicity?

Von Sydow is not Boba Fett

Cantstandsya

Red King wrote: »

Andy Serkis said that Snoke is 7feet tall.

It is pretty obvious that Rey is a Skywalker, there is too many similarities what with her similarity to Leia and Padme, her force abilities, that Anakin/Luke's saber was calling to her, that the Burning Homestead theme music plays when she force grabs the saber, her growing up isolated on a desert planet not knowing her parents...how many more hints do people need?

And Lucas himself stated that Fett escaped the Sarlaac pit...the only problem with the Fett = Von Sydow theory is that Von Sydow is clearly not Maori, which Temuera Morrison is...another reason to hate the prequels

As dumb as this sounds Fett isn't a Maori, he's a Mandalorian and they can just handwave it and say that's how they age. It's a sci fi film so I wouldn't see that as an issue.

Tigger

Red King wrote: »

And suddenly changed ethnicity?

Von Sydow is not Boba Fett

ok then he works for him

Red King

Tigger wrote: »

ok then he works for him

That makes no sense, sorry your theory is fun but full of holes.

Tigger

the sarlaic juices bleached him

Cantstandsya

Tigger wrote: »

the sarlaic juices bleached him

Michael Jackson = Bobba Fett shocker (thriller?)

TLOA72

Luke could well be reys father, they question I want to know is who is the mother?

robdonn

Rey Jinn, great-granddaughter of Qui-Gon... The circle is now complete!

Tigger

i found more stuff

this is an archive of a rumor from may

http://archive.is/LWj1f

which was taken down and replaced with the men in black forget zapper

http://moviepilot.com/posts/2015/05/08/max-von-sydow-confirmed-as-boba-fett-2916815?lt_source=external,manual

So, just how serious should we take this Star Wars rumor? The original story was run by MoviePilot, but they mysteriously took the article down with no explanation after claiming they had “confirmed” Max Von Sydow’s Boba Fett movie role. Perhaps the Disney lawyers descended like stormtroopers?
Read more at http://www.inquisitr.com/2076050/boba-fett-movie-casts-max-von-sydow-cast-as-bounty-hunter-says-star-wars-spinoff-rumors/#QGkVOuAKQxGt4m3O.99

bilston

TLOA72 wrote: »

Luke could well be reys father, they question I want to know is who is the mother?

Some Mara Jade type character I would have thought.

Cantstandsya

I think the film hinted more towards Rey being Luke's daughter than Han and Leia's... the clincher for me is that Ren found images of the island in the sea when he was interrogating her.

... but there did seem to be some deep bond between her and Leia at the end so I might well be wrong.

Venom

bilston wrote: »

Some Mara Jade type character I would have thought.

Does Mara Jade even exist seeing as when Disney took over, they announced that the expanded universe would have no bearing on future Star Wars project?

Whyohwhy?

Venom wrote: »

Does Mara Jade even exist seeing as when Disney took over, they announced that the expanded universe would have no bearing on future Star Wars project?

I'd say they'll be cherry picking who and what they want from the expanded universe to suit themselves, they own it, they'll do whatever suits them.

NomadicGray

Wasnt it claimed Anakin had no father?
So maybe Rey has no mother...

Talisman

A few things that occurred to me since watching the movie which relate to Timothy Zahn's Thrawn Trilogy.

In the Thrawn Trilogy there is a story arc about Leia being pregnant with twins, a boy and a girl. The antagonist in the story wants the twins because they are of the Anakin Skywalker bloodline. Luke and Leia are twins that were separated at birth it's not beyond the realm of possibility that the decision was taken to do the same with Leia's children.

The Thrawn books could also explain the appearance of the First Order. In the story arc it mentions that Emperor Palpatine had sent some of his top scientists and forces out beyond the Outer Rim. He had a vision of the fall of the Empire and wanted to keep them out of the reach of the Rebellion.

The lightsaber in the box that Rey found was the one that Luke lost at Bespin City. Attached to that lightsaber was his arm, if the lightsaber was found it's reasonable to assume that so was the limb. The First Order have the cloning technology ...

In the Thrawn trilogy, the antagonist is the clone of a Jedi. In Episode V, Luke had a vision at the cave under the tree on Dagobah. When he strikes down Darth Vader the masked head rolls to reveal the face of Luke Skywalker.

whatawaster

Talisman wrote: »

The lightsaber in the box that Rey found was the one that Luke lost at Bespin City. Attached to that lightsaber was his arm, if the lightsaber was found it's reasonable to assume that so was the limb. The First Order have the cloning technology ...

Two things:

"attached to the lightsaber was his arm" - No, the muscles in his hand, controlled by Luke Skywalkers central nervous system, were gripping the lightsaber. Once his hand was cut off the saber and the hand would have been separated.

The first order might have cloning technology, but the First Order didn't find the lightsaber, and there's nothing to suggest they found Luke Skywalker's hand.

Talisman

whatawaster wrote: »

Two things:

"attached to the lightsaber was his arm" - No, the muscles in his hand, controlled by Luke Skywalkers central nervous system, were gripping the lightsaber. Once his hand was cut off the saber and the hand would have been separated.

I stand corrected, his hand, not his arm was severed, but it was attached to the lightsaber.



One of the first potential plot leaks had the hand and lightsaber featuring in the opening scene of the movie.
Star Wars 7: Plot details 'leak', with sequel's opening sequence and premise revealed (The Independent, 21 July 2014)

The first order might have cloning technology, but the First Order didn't find the lightsaber, and there's nothing to suggest they found Luke Skywalker's hand.

There's no might about them having the cloning technology, they do have it and it was specifically mentioned in the scene where they decided to activate the Starkiller base.

It is likely that the recovery of the severed hand occurred while Bespin was under Imperial control. The lightsaber itself would only be of significance to a Jedi, Skywalker's DNA on the other hand would be of great interest to anyone who wanted to create an army of Sith.

I don't want to have to spoil the Thrawn trilogy but it's worth a read.

ziedth

I didn't want to put this on the main thread but rumors afoot that Harrison Ford is returning in the next film IE he somehow survived the scene/fall or cloning or whatever. Personally I'd call that a unbelievable cop out, I would be happy with a flashback or some kind of force dream type thing but that rumor would really annoy me.

Falthyron

ziedth wrote: »

I didn't want to put this on the main thread but rumors afoot that Harrison Ford is returning in the next film IE he somehow survived the scene/fall or cloning or whatever. Personally I'd call that a unbelievable cop out, I would be happy with a flashback or some kind of force dream type thing but that rumor would really annoy me.

Best bet would be a flashback scene with Han and Leia giving their son, Ben, (and daughter Rey!) over to Luke for training.

ziedth

http://www.theladbible.com/articles/this-guy-s-insane-star-wars-the-force-awakens-theory-has-the-ultimate-twist

Anyone see this? I've still only seen it once but working off memory it kind of works. The line that really tied it together is when Ren says "What girl?" Over Jakku. I'll keep the theory in my head watching it a second time. It would be an amazing theory all the same. Han and Lieas scene when they are talking about Ben/Ren will tell allot

Falthyron

ziedth wrote: »

http://www.theladbible.com/articles/this-guy-s-insane-star-wars-the-force-awakens-theory-has-the-ultimate-twist

Anyone see this? I've still only seen it once but working off memory it kind of works. The line that really tied it together is when Ren says "What girl?" Over Jakku. I'll keep the theory in my head watching it a second time. It would be an amazing theory all the same. Han and Lieas scene when they are talking about Ben/Ren will tell allot

Interesting, but one or two issues. Firstly, why did Ren have to kill the other Jedi at the temple? Surely leaving and joining with Snoke was enough? Alternatively, he could have just joined with Luke and the other Jedi to pursue Snoke together... I also think the only reason Ren is now looking for Luke is not to protect him from the First Order, but to follow through on his idol; Vader. Vader killed his old mentor, Obi Wan, so Kylo thinks he must do the same to be more like Vader.

ziedth

Again I'm working off memory but could the scene with Vader and "finish what you started" as in destroy the Sith and in kill Snoke.... it seemed to fit for me he just says something to the effect of battling the light and dark side bit like Vader did. The Jedi in the temple to be fair is a perfectly valid point

To be clear I don't think this is a real theory I just love things like this. I actually watched through Ep1 recently just to try see how this Darth JarJar thing fits.

There is a great story about the Saw films how they rewrote one of the sequels (might have been saw 5) because a guy posted a really off the wall theory on you tube that just tied perfectly into the previous 4 films and they went with it.

don corleone

Couple of things

I dont believe Luke is Reys father, mainly because it means Luke would have to have strayed from Jedi teachings in order to have a seed. Isnt that what got Annakin in all the trouble in the first place? Would not match the character at all. I think it would backfire hugely to paint Luke anything other than the human version of Yoda at this point.

I think Rey is a Kenobi. I can see the next episode being Luke training Rey, but rather than to fight it will be to talk to the other side, to Obi wan. Rey doesnt look like she needs much fight training as she can already handle a saber and defeat Kylo without any prior training. I like the thoughts of her been a Kenobi for a number of reasons but the main one is there is a few Skywalkers too many if both her and Kylo are of the Skywalker clann in my opinion. The below is from a deleted scene in episode 6

'So I took you to live with my brother Owen, on Tatooine..." The idea that Obi-Wan Kenobi and Owen Lars, the adoptive uncle of Luke Skywalker, were brothers, was introduced in the screenplay of the 1983 movie Star Wars: Episode VI Return of the Jedi, but did not make it in the final cut.'

While I dont believe she is the grand-daughter of Obi for the same reasons mentioned in paragraph 1, it is possible that Obi had family or in this case a brother, leading to the bloodline to Rey.

robdonn

don corleone wrote: »

'So I took you to live with my brother Owen, on Tatooine..." The idea that Obi-Wan Kenobi and Owen Lars, the adoptive uncle of Luke Skywalker, were brothers, was introduced in the screenplay of the 1983 movie Star Wars: Episode VI Return of the Jedi, but did not make it in the final cut.'

While I dont believe she is the grand-daughter of Obi for the same reasons mentioned in paragraph 1, it is possible that Obi had family or in this case a brother, leading to the bloodline to Rey.

I'm guessing that this theory is throwing away (and rightly so) any of the events from the prequels? Because if not, then if Obi-Wan and Owen are brothers then that would mean that Obi's dad bought, freed and married Anakin's mom... I don't want to come down on coincidences too much considering that the fate of the entire galaxy revolves around one family, but still that is one hell of a coincidence!

ziedth

There could be something too that with Alec Guiness saying "Rey" in the lightsaber vision scene and a rumor that Owen McGregor is returning for the next film. I think that would be ALLOT better then she is a Skywalker/Solo.

Falthyron

don corleone wrote: »

Couple of things

I dont believe Luke is Reys father, mainly because it means Luke would have to have strayed from Jedi teachings in order to have a seed.

Luke knows nothing of the Jedi Order, their rules, their principles, their ways. This is demonstrated by his use of both sides of the force (beating Vader with his anger and fear over the possible loss of his sister, and choking the guards in Jabba's palace). He wouldn't know that Jedi weren't allowed to have relationships, marry or have children. And, as you quite rightly pointed out, maybe that was the main flaw of the Jedi Order which led to its downfall.

I am not convinced Luke is her father, but I am certainly very open to the idea especially if he is, in fact, standing at a grave at the end of the movie and that grave belongs to Rey's mother.

robdonn

don corleone wrote: »

I think Rey is a Kenobi. I can see the next episode being Luke training Rey, but rather than to fight it will be to talk to the other side, to Obi wan. Rey doesnt look like she needs much fight training as she can already handle a saber and defeat Kylo without any prior training. I like the thoughts of her been a Kenobi for a number of reasons but the main one is there is a few Skywalkers too many if both her and Kylo are of the Skywalker clann in my opinion. The below is from a deleted scene in episode 6

'So I took you to live with my brother Owen, on Tatooine..." The idea that Obi-Wan Kenobi and Owen Lars, the adoptive uncle of Luke Skywalker, were brothers, was introduced in the screenplay of the 1983 movie Star Wars: Episode VI Return of the Jedi, but did not make it in the final cut.'

While I dont believe she is the grand-daughter of Obi for the same reasons mentioned in paragraph 1, it is possible that Obi had family or in this case a brother, leading to the bloodline to Rey.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mjFfdrTJrQ

ziedth

^

That is a very good point regarding the lightsaber being with Obi-Wan longer then it was with anyone else.

The more I think of it the more I think that theory is correct and to be fair would be a decent twist.

cowboyBuilder

So apparently Serkis has said that Supreme leader Snoke is not Darth Plagueis

http://comicbook.com/2016/01/06/andy-serkis-confirms-supreme-leader-snoke-is-not-darth-plagueis/

Shame, it was a really nice theory, I just hope the writers haven't changed either of these theories (also below) as they are buzzing around the net now .. this is the disadvantage of modern day movie fans :P

ziedth wrote: »

^

That is a very good point regarding the lightsaber being with Obi-Wan longer then it was with anyone else.

The more I think of it the more I think that theory is correct and to be fair would be a decent twist.

ziedth

Seemingly there is a very good one doing the rounds that Ren didn't actually kill any of the Jedi's but actually turned them all to the dark side and that is what the knights of Ren are (lads in the rain during the lightsaber dream sequence) but Rey was also one of the Trainee Jedi's but her (handily enough it must be said) memory was wiped and sent to Jakku leading to that is why Ren tries to offer to train her and also (which I never noticed while watching) why Liea would give Rey a big embrace having never actually met.

Kinda disappointed in the Snoke=Plageuis theory not being true as it would have been a decent one.

From my own point of view I reckon Someone (Maybe Rey or even Snoke) is a clone of someone. Be it Luke, Vader or the emporer. The reason for that I reckon the line about usuiong a clone army isn't thrown in there for no reason.

Talisman

Rey could be the 'Chosen One'. Yoda said regarding Anakin that the prophecy may have been misread. During the duel on Mustafar, Obi-Wan said "You were supposed to be the Chosen One". Obviously he didn't think Anakin was at that stage.

Anakin lacked patience and was quick to anger. Yoda had the same criticism of Luke in Episode 5. Kylo Ren is another to share these traits. None of them could be considered the balanced type so how could they bring balance to the Force.

In contrast the mysterious girl from Jakku has patience (she was waiting for thousands of days for somebody to return for her), she doesn't give in to her anger (she didn't kill Kylo Ren because it didn't feel right). Doing what's right is a trait that she shares with Finn. [In the novelisation the reason Rey didn't kill Kylo when she had the opportunity was because a voice in her head told her to kill him. Presumably the voice was that of Snoke attempting to lure her to the dark side.]

It could purely be coincidence but Rey seems to be the anti-Skywalker, she has no formal training that we are aware of yet she is a more competent force user than Kylo Ren.

The lightsaber chose her twice, first at Maz Kanata's castle and later when Kylo Ren attempted to force pull it from the snow.

AbusesToilets

I like the idea that bringing balance to the Force means being more emotionally even centered, allowing yourself to be less emotionally rigid the way the older Jedi Order held themselves.

Gbear

AbusesToilets wrote: »

I like the idea that bringing balance to the Force means being more emotionally even centered, allowing yourself to be less emotionally rigid the way the older Jedi Order held themselves.

Personally, I've always thought the "bring balance to the force" thing was poorly thought out bollocks and has never been coherently explained in canon.

Everyone has their own head-canon about what it means but at this stage sweeping it under the carpet, giving prophecy (which is always a terrible plot device) the boot, and leaving the story to tell itself unhindered by that kind of baggage would be the best course of action.

AbusesToilets

That's a good point, prophecies always come across as a very hokey mechanic.

ziedth

It would have been great that while they were making the Extended universe non-canon that they would have taken the the bold leap and done away with the prequels while they were at it. I'd imagine Lucas would have pitched a fit though

cowboyBuilder

Actually ... everyone has been assuming Snoke is a hologram, maybe he is a force ghost ?

and it's actually Palpatine ?
or is that too mad ??

robdonn

cowboyBuilder wrote: »

Actually ... everyone has been assuming Snoke is a hologram, maybe he is a force ghost ?

and it's actually Palpatine ?
or is that too mad ??

I always assumed that to become a force ghost you must accept your death and willingly join the force. Obi-wan, Yoda and Anakin were all ready to die and accepted it, Palpatine wanted to live forever.