Force Awakens TheoRey [SPOILERS]

ziedth

I didn't want to put this on the main thread but rumors afoot that Harrison Ford is returning in the next film IE he somehow survived the scene/fall or cloning or whatever. Personally I'd call that a unbelievable cop out, I would be happy with a flashback or some kind of force dream type thing but that rumor would really annoy me.

Falthyron

ziedth wrote: »

I didn't want to put this on the main thread but rumors afoot that Harrison Ford is returning in the next film IE he somehow survived the scene/fall or cloning or whatever. Personally I'd call that a unbelievable cop out, I would be happy with a flashback or some kind of force dream type thing but that rumor would really annoy me.

Best bet would be a flashback scene with Han and Leia giving their son, Ben, (and daughter Rey!) over to Luke for training.

ziedth

http://www.theladbible.com/articles/this-guy-s-insane-star-wars-the-force-awakens-theory-has-the-ultimate-twist

Anyone see this? I've still only seen it once but working off memory it kind of works. The line that really tied it together is when Ren says "What girl?" Over Jakku. I'll keep the theory in my head watching it a second time. It would be an amazing theory all the same. Han and Lieas scene when they are talking about Ben/Ren will tell allot

Falthyron

ziedth wrote: »

http://www.theladbible.com/articles/this-guy-s-insane-star-wars-the-force-awakens-theory-has-the-ultimate-twist

Anyone see this? I've still only seen it once but working off memory it kind of works. The line that really tied it together is when Ren says "What girl?" Over Jakku. I'll keep the theory in my head watching it a second time. It would be an amazing theory all the same. Han and Lieas scene when they are talking about Ben/Ren will tell allot

Interesting, but one or two issues. Firstly, why did Ren have to kill the other Jedi at the temple? Surely leaving and joining with Snoke was enough? Alternatively, he could have just joined with Luke and the other Jedi to pursue Snoke together... I also think the only reason Ren is now looking for Luke is not to protect him from the First Order, but to follow through on his idol; Vader. Vader killed his old mentor, Obi Wan, so Kylo thinks he must do the same to be more like Vader.

ziedth

Again I'm working off memory but could the scene with Vader and "finish what you started" as in destroy the Sith and in kill Snoke.... it seemed to fit for me he just says something to the effect of battling the light and dark side bit like Vader did. The Jedi in the temple to be fair is a perfectly valid point

To be clear I don't think this is a real theory I just love things like this. I actually watched through Ep1 recently just to try see how this Darth JarJar thing fits.

There is a great story about the Saw films how they rewrote one of the sequels (might have been saw 5) because a guy posted a really off the wall theory on you tube that just tied perfectly into the previous 4 films and they went with it.

don corleone

Couple of things

I dont believe Luke is Reys father, mainly because it means Luke would have to have strayed from Jedi teachings in order to have a seed. Isnt that what got Annakin in all the trouble in the first place? Would not match the character at all. I think it would backfire hugely to paint Luke anything other than the human version of Yoda at this point.

I think Rey is a Kenobi. I can see the next episode being Luke training Rey, but rather than to fight it will be to talk to the other side, to Obi wan. Rey doesnt look like she needs much fight training as she can already handle a saber and defeat Kylo without any prior training. I like the thoughts of her been a Kenobi for a number of reasons but the main one is there is a few Skywalkers too many if both her and Kylo are of the Skywalker clann in my opinion. The below is from a deleted scene in episode 6

'So I took you to live with my brother Owen, on Tatooine..." The idea that Obi-Wan Kenobi and Owen Lars, the adoptive uncle of Luke Skywalker, were brothers, was introduced in the screenplay of the 1983 movie Star Wars: Episode VI Return of the Jedi, but did not make it in the final cut.'

While I dont believe she is the grand-daughter of Obi for the same reasons mentioned in paragraph 1, it is possible that Obi had family or in this case a brother, leading to the bloodline to Rey.

robdonn

don corleone wrote: »

'So I took you to live with my brother Owen, on Tatooine..." The idea that Obi-Wan Kenobi and Owen Lars, the adoptive uncle of Luke Skywalker, were brothers, was introduced in the screenplay of the 1983 movie Star Wars: Episode VI Return of the Jedi, but did not make it in the final cut.'

While I dont believe she is the grand-daughter of Obi for the same reasons mentioned in paragraph 1, it is possible that Obi had family or in this case a brother, leading to the bloodline to Rey.

I'm guessing that this theory is throwing away (and rightly so) any of the events from the prequels? Because if not, then if Obi-Wan and Owen are brothers then that would mean that Obi's dad bought, freed and married Anakin's mom... I don't want to come down on coincidences too much considering that the fate of the entire galaxy revolves around one family, but still that is one hell of a coincidence!

ziedth

There could be something too that with Alec Guiness saying "Rey" in the lightsaber vision scene and a rumor that Owen McGregor is returning for the next film. I think that would be ALLOT better then she is a Skywalker/Solo.

Falthyron

don corleone wrote: »

Couple of things

I dont believe Luke is Reys father, mainly because it means Luke would have to have strayed from Jedi teachings in order to have a seed.

Luke knows nothing of the Jedi Order, their rules, their principles, their ways. This is demonstrated by his use of both sides of the force (beating Vader with his anger and fear over the possible loss of his sister, and choking the guards in Jabba's palace). He wouldn't know that Jedi weren't allowed to have relationships, marry or have children. And, as you quite rightly pointed out, maybe that was the main flaw of the Jedi Order which led to its downfall.

I am not convinced Luke is her father, but I am certainly very open to the idea especially if he is, in fact, standing at a grave at the end of the movie and that grave belongs to Rey's mother.

robdonn

don corleone wrote: »

I think Rey is a Kenobi. I can see the next episode being Luke training Rey, but rather than to fight it will be to talk to the other side, to Obi wan. Rey doesnt look like she needs much fight training as she can already handle a saber and defeat Kylo without any prior training. I like the thoughts of her been a Kenobi for a number of reasons but the main one is there is a few Skywalkers too many if both her and Kylo are of the Skywalker clann in my opinion. The below is from a deleted scene in episode 6

'So I took you to live with my brother Owen, on Tatooine..." The idea that Obi-Wan Kenobi and Owen Lars, the adoptive uncle of Luke Skywalker, were brothers, was introduced in the screenplay of the 1983 movie Star Wars: Episode VI Return of the Jedi, but did not make it in the final cut.'

While I dont believe she is the grand-daughter of Obi for the same reasons mentioned in paragraph 1, it is possible that Obi had family or in this case a brother, leading to the bloodline to Rey.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mjFfdrTJrQ

ziedth

^

That is a very good point regarding the lightsaber being with Obi-Wan longer then it was with anyone else.

The more I think of it the more I think that theory is correct and to be fair would be a decent twist.

cowboyBuilder

So apparently Serkis has said that Supreme leader Snoke is not Darth Plagueis

http://comicbook.com/2016/01/06/andy-serkis-confirms-supreme-leader-snoke-is-not-darth-plagueis/

Shame, it was a really nice theory, I just hope the writers haven't changed either of these theories (also below) as they are buzzing around the net now .. this is the disadvantage of modern day movie fans :P

ziedth wrote: »

^

That is a very good point regarding the lightsaber being with Obi-Wan longer then it was with anyone else.

The more I think of it the more I think that theory is correct and to be fair would be a decent twist.

ziedth

Seemingly there is a very good one doing the rounds that Ren didn't actually kill any of the Jedi's but actually turned them all to the dark side and that is what the knights of Ren are (lads in the rain during the lightsaber dream sequence) but Rey was also one of the Trainee Jedi's but her (handily enough it must be said) memory was wiped and sent to Jakku leading to that is why Ren tries to offer to train her and also (which I never noticed while watching) why Liea would give Rey a big embrace having never actually met.

Kinda disappointed in the Snoke=Plageuis theory not being true as it would have been a decent one.

From my own point of view I reckon Someone (Maybe Rey or even Snoke) is a clone of someone. Be it Luke, Vader or the emporer. The reason for that I reckon the line about usuiong a clone army isn't thrown in there for no reason.

Talisman

Rey could be the 'Chosen One'. Yoda said regarding Anakin that the prophecy may have been misread. During the duel on Mustafar, Obi-Wan said "You were supposed to be the Chosen One". Obviously he didn't think Anakin was at that stage.

Anakin lacked patience and was quick to anger. Yoda had the same criticism of Luke in Episode 5. Kylo Ren is another to share these traits. None of them could be considered the balanced type so how could they bring balance to the Force.

In contrast the mysterious girl from Jakku has patience (she was waiting for thousands of days for somebody to return for her), she doesn't give in to her anger (she didn't kill Kylo Ren because it didn't feel right). Doing what's right is a trait that she shares with Finn. [In the novelisation the reason Rey didn't kill Kylo when she had the opportunity was because a voice in her head told her to kill him. Presumably the voice was that of Snoke attempting to lure her to the dark side.]

It could purely be coincidence but Rey seems to be the anti-Skywalker, she has no formal training that we are aware of yet she is a more competent force user than Kylo Ren.

The lightsaber chose her twice, first at Maz Kanata's castle and later when Kylo Ren attempted to force pull it from the snow.

AbusesToilets

I like the idea that bringing balance to the Force means being more emotionally even centered, allowing yourself to be less emotionally rigid the way the older Jedi Order held themselves.

Gbear

AbusesToilets wrote: »

I like the idea that bringing balance to the Force means being more emotionally even centered, allowing yourself to be less emotionally rigid the way the older Jedi Order held themselves.

Personally, I've always thought the "bring balance to the force" thing was poorly thought out bollocks and has never been coherently explained in canon.

Everyone has their own head-canon about what it means but at this stage sweeping it under the carpet, giving prophecy (which is always a terrible plot device) the boot, and leaving the story to tell itself unhindered by that kind of baggage would be the best course of action.

AbusesToilets

That's a good point, prophecies always come across as a very hokey mechanic.

ziedth

It would have been great that while they were making the Extended universe non-canon that they would have taken the the bold leap and done away with the prequels while they were at it. I'd imagine Lucas would have pitched a fit though

cowboyBuilder

Actually ... everyone has been assuming Snoke is a hologram, maybe he is a force ghost ?

and it's actually Palpatine ?
or is that too mad ??

robdonn

cowboyBuilder wrote: »

Actually ... everyone has been assuming Snoke is a hologram, maybe he is a force ghost ?

and it's actually Palpatine ?
or is that too mad ??

I always assumed that to become a force ghost you must accept your death and willingly join the force. Obi-wan, Yoda and Anakin were all ready to die and accepted it, Palpatine wanted to live forever.

ziedth

I still think he's a clone but force ghost is a pretty cool idea too.

cowboyBuilder

I'm still hopefull for Darth Plageus .... JJ Abrams lied before (Khan) ..:o

TerrorFirmer

cowboyBuilder wrote: »

I'm still hopefull for Darth Plageus .... JJ Abrams lied before (Khan) ..:o

I'm still thinking that too - Palpatine talked of how he slew Plageius, but perhaps he thought he did, but didn't complete the task - which would explain the grostesque disfigurement.

Or else it IS Palpatine. Who knows.

AbusesToilets

I hope he is something new, that he brings a new aspect to the Force. Much more interesting than a rehash of what's gone before (again).

Talisman

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

I'm still thinking that too - Palpatine talked of how he slew Plageius, but perhaps he thought he did, but didn't complete the task - which would explain the grostesque disfigurement.

Or else it IS Palpatine. Who knows.

It's not Palpatine. Snoke has been in the background for a long time, in his dialogue he mentioned something about how he had watched the fall of the Old Republic and the rise of the Empire. Palpatine was a very active participant in those events. He also self combusted in episode VI.

Talisman

ziedth wrote: »

It would have been great that while they were making the Extended universe non-canon that they would have taken the the bold leap and done away with the prequels while they were at it. I'd imagine Lucas would have pitched a fit though

The cynic in me thinks that the extended universe was declared non-canon so that Disney can pillage the elements they think will push more products.

For the same reason I think the decision was made to make the focus of the new trilogy a girl - Katniss Everdeen on the big screen opened up a whole new market for Nerf products, that certainly would not have gone un-noticed at Disney. There's only so much mileage in princesses and fairytale stories. It's even noticeable in the Disney Stores - prior to the release of the latest movie, the store assistants didn't talk to little girls about Star Wars. On a recent visit our two girls were asked if they had seen the new movie and what did they think of Rey. Previously it was only the boys that were spoken to regarding Star Wars, our eldest son was delighted because it was the first time he got to wander the store without being approached by the staff.

cowboyBuilder

How is official canon decided anyway ?

Talisman

cowboyBuilder wrote: »

How is official canon decided anyway ?

A long time ago ... In a place far away ... Possibly California ... The licensing and marketing departments of Lucasfilm created a bible of all things Star Wars. It started with the movies and radio plays and grew from there. In order for something to be considered for addition to the bible, it had to fit within what was already there.

Some time after taking ownership of the franchise, Disney decided to chuck it out and official canon became what they had purchased and what was subsequently licensed to be produced..

Who decides what goes in now? The licensing people at Disney.

cowboyBuilder

My Darth Plagueis book arrived today, I guess it must be Canon as it has the Disney logo on the back of it