Toulon v Leinster 16.15 local, 15.15 Irish. Sky Sports

CatFromHue

Hines wasn't a superstar when he came here, he wasn't even a star tbh.

Nacewa was a complete unknown but highly rated. If he'd stayed at 10 would very much not be a fan favourite though.

Thorn was only a bit of a fluke signing as he was available short term.

Contepomi and Rocky were but Rocky only wanted to be here for a year.

Zzippy

WarZ wrote: »

Where did I say I wanted the team like Racing or Toulon? I said Leinster needed some real superstars like Hines, Elsom, Contepomi, Prime Nacewa, Thorn etc.

Instead we get Zane Kirchner.

So... you don't want the team to be like Racing or Toulon, but you want to buy in superstars to achieve success, which is exactly what Racing and Toulon do to achieve success? Ok then... :rolleyes:

Yeah_Right

Nacewa and Kirchner are similar. Neither were superstars but both were highly rated and considered potential superstars. Nacewa fulfilled his potential, Kirchner has not.

Rocky was not a superstar in SH rugby. He was considered good but not great. TBH when he had such an incredible season with Leinster it caused a lot of fans and pundits in the SH to question the standard of European club rugby. Sorry.

That attitude has changed since then though.

former total

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Nacewa and Kirchner are similar. Neither were superstars but both were highly rated and considered potential superstars. Nacewa fulfilled his potential, Kirchner has not.

Rocky was not a superstar in SH rugby. He was considered good but not great. TBH when he had such an incredible season with Leinster it caused a lot of fans and pundits in the SH to question the standard of European club rugby. Sorry.

That attitude has changed since then though.

Yeah, I'm not sure any of that is right.

Nacewa was one of the best players in Super Rugby before he came over. He didn't reach superstar status because he couldn't play for NZ.
If Kirchner was ever regarded as a potential superstar, that hope was long extinguished before he arrived here. Not even close to Nacewa.

Elsom was a star in Australia before he arrived here. That's not even remotely up for debate.

Clegg

Late to the conversation, but I wouldn't cousider Ruddock, Rob Kearney or Fitzgerald to be "average" players either.

Yeah_Right

former total wrote: »

Yeah, I'm not sure any of that is right.

Nacewa was one of the best players in Super Rugby before he came over. He didn't reach superstar status because he couldn't play for NZ.
If Kirchner was ever regarded as a potential superstar, that hope was long extinguished before he arrived here. Not even close to Nacewa.

Elsom was a star in Australia before he arrived here. That's not even remotely up for debate.

I suppose Kirchner hasn't brought his Super rugby form to the test arena or to Leinster. When they originally signed him I thought it was great work but he has unfortunately been disappointing.

I'm basing what I said about Elsom purely from my experience living in NZ at the time. No one worried about him before matches and he didn't put in MOTM performances like he did here.

You're spot on with Nacewa. I just hope he can get back to the sort of form he was in when he was last here.

As a kiwi living in Dublin, I would have loved to have seen more ABs sign with Leinster (or any Irish club) rather than go to France or England.

WarZ

molloyjh wrote: »

You've basically said that you don't think any of the current team are good enough and we should get loads of money in to make us successful again. I can't see how that could possibly be interpreted in any other way.

Of course you've moved the goalposts here by talking about Kirchner when you were initially talking about pretty much every Leinster player. Because aren't they all terrible players who are too slow and just crap in every way because it's all terrible and the sky is falling in.

Im asking for signings at tighthead, second row, scrum half and back 3.

4 class players. Hardly a Toulon or Racing.

The above players I mentioned would struggle to start for a lot of the elite european sides, yet in Ireland they are mostly considered 'world class' :rolleyes:

Looks like Leinster will lose every european game this season and struggle in the league. But ah shure nothings wrong, arent the players great?

molloyjh

WarZ wrote: »

Im asking for signings at tighthead, second row, scrum half and back 3.

4 class players. Hardly a Toulon or Racing.

The above players I mentioned would struggle to start for a lot of the elite european sides, yet in Ireland they are mostly considered 'world class' :rolleyes:

Looks like Leinster will lose every european game this season and struggle in the league. But ah shure nothings wrong, arent the players great?

Really? Here is your post:

WarZ wrote: »

Leinster need a cash injection quickly. The IRFU should just allow Leinster to take one of the many willing financiers to step in (dennis o'brien for example) and let the team compete again.

Healy, Ross, McCarthy, Toner, Ruddock, Murphy, Boss, Reddan, Fitzgerald, Dave Kearney, Rob Kearney, McFadden are all painfully average players. O'Brien is constantly injured.

This is the worst Leinster team in 5 years. The players were either never that good to begin with, had a purple patch or are on a massive downward slope.

Leinster need some real superstars, and believe me, despite what the fanboys and press will have u believe theres very few superstars in that Leinster team, maybe not even one at the moment.

In it you've identified LH, TH, Lock, Openside, SH and all 3 back 3 positions. That's 8 positions on the park. Twice what you are claiming now. And that's at best. You are actually talking about replacing 12 or 13 Irish players at worst.

Pull the other one.

Triumvirate

CatFromHue wrote: »

Hines wasn't a superstar when he came here, he wasn't even a star tbh.

Harsh on Hines. A 60 cap international just returning from a Lions tour and a hugely successful spell in France would be a star in most people's minds.

WarZ

molloyjh wrote: »

Really? Here is your post:



In it you've identified LH, TH, Lock, Openside, SH and all 3 back 3 positions. That's 8 positions on the park. Twice what you are claiming now. And that's at best. You are actually talking about replacing 12 or 13 Irish players at worst.

Pull the other one.

Obviously I can't replace all the average or out of form payers but a TH, Lock, backrow, SH and back 3 player could make a massive difference.

Thats 5 players. And desperately needed.

Triumvirate

Triumvirate wrote: »

Harsh on Hines. A 60 cap international just returning from a Lions tour and a hugely successful spell in France would be a star in most people's minds.

I loved watching Nathan Hines play. He was such a bollox and it was great when he was our bollox.

aimee1

WarZ wrote: »

Im asking for signings at tighthead, second row, scrum half and back 3.

4 class players. Hardly a Toulon or Racing.

The above players I mentioned would struggle to start for a lot of the elite european sides, yet in Ireland they are mostly considered 'world class' :rolleyes:

Looks like Leinster will lose every european game this season and struggle in the league. But ah shure nothings wrong, arent the players great?

have you seen the league table recently?


Oh and Moore, Furlong, Ross. TH isnt an issue currently surely?

CatFromHue

Triumvirate wrote: »

Harsh on Hines. A 60 cap international just returning from a Lions tour and a hugely successful spell in France would be a star in most people's minds.

He was a good player just not a star player, like he wasn't in any of the test squads.

Actually I wonder what people thought when he signed as his reputation certainly enhanced alot after his stint with us.

RuggieBear

Healy cited

Stheno

RuggieBear wrote: »

Healy cited

Oh dear that's a bit harsh. What is he looking at ban wise?

sydthebeat

Stheno wrote: »

Oh dear that's a bit harsh. What is he looking at ban wise?

3 - 52

flouncer

So I wanted sexton to play a part in the second half. So that didn't work out. But there were positives. There was some exciting play that simply hasn't been visible so far this year. Toulon 1 to 8 are really as strong as it gets. So other than cian Healy (who has totally lost the plot) Leinster stood up well.

Now I did say heaslip wasn't great previously. Let me clarify. Jamie didn't do anything terribly interesting. He just fought. And I suppose if you can go head to head with the toulon pack that ain't bad. I just (from past experience) expect jamie to have a more obvious impact on a game.

So if I were honest things weren't as bad as most might think (other than Shane horglinns commentary)

First Up

sydthebeat wrote:

3 - 52

Closer to 3 I'll wager.

aimee1

sydthebeat wrote: »

3 - 52

I reckon 4 after the tin of fruit, twitter apology nonsense

Triumvirate

CatFromHue wrote: »

He was a good player just not a star player, like he wasn't in any of the test squads.

Actually I wonder what people thought when he signed as his reputation certainly enhanced alot after his stint with us.

Gordon D'Arcy never made a Lions test 23 either. Neither did Stuart Hogg. Both would be big stars if anyone signed them when playing some of their best rugby.

His reputation was established when he arrived. The suspension on the Lions tour probably cost him his shot at the 23 in what was a very competitive position (O'Connell, Shaw and Jones were the preferred selection).

The only thing that ever really changed was the awareness of people in Ireland regarding his abilities. He was already a big name in the UK and France where he had over 100 appearances for Perpignan including being their captain for a spell.

swiwi_

RuggieBear wrote: »

Healy cited

Always was a good man for a quote, was Cian.

"Suit, sorry sir, social media", plus throw in "season's greetings" for good measure, should see a minimal ban in keeping with the purest rugby tradition.

Could see Healy getting 5 weeks. We're into straw that breaks the camel's back territory now with him. One too many incidents.

Stheno

aimee1 wrote: »

I reckon 4 after the tin of fruit, twitter apology nonsense

Was this some act of silliness he indulged in after a previous citing?

He'll get 3 weeks, think it's too recent from his last one to get away with 1?

Don't think it would have been a card only the French player pulled a Pape and got ice on the back of his head until the ref looked at it.

aimee1

Stheno wrote: »

Was this some act of silliness he indulged in after a previous citing?

no its the usual rugby etiquette. Say sorry on twitter, wear a nice suit, plead guilty, apologise at the hearing for causing a hearing and you get a ban cut

aimee1

Deleted User wrote: »

He'll get 3 weeks, think it's too recent from his last one to get away with 1?

Don't think it would have been a card only the French player pulled a Pape and got ice on the back of his head until the ref looked at it.

thats why i think he will cop a week more possibly [last one was england 2013 in the aviva?]

Stheno

aimee1 wrote: »

no its the usual rugby etiquette. Say sorry on twitter, wear a nice suit, plead guilty, apologise at the hearing for causing a hearing and you get a ban cut

Ah I thought it was some outlandish behaviour with him using a tin of fruit to insult someone

NOt sure the usual behaviour will work for Healy, he's had a few citings/bans now hasn't he?

Stheno

Stheno wrote: »

Ah I thought it was some outlandish behaviour with him using a tin of fruit to insult someone

NOt sure the usual behaviour will work for Healy, he's had a few citings/bans now hasn't he?

Nothing dramatic, but one within the last few years is usually enough to prevent good behavior reduction.

CatFromHue

Triumvirate wrote: »

Gordon D'Arcy never made a Lions test 23 either. Neither did Stuart Hogg. Both would be big stars if anyone signed them when playing some of their best rugby.

His reputation was established when he arrived. The suspension on the Lions tour probably cost him his shot at the 23 in what was a very competitive position (O'Connell, Shaw and Jones were the preferred selection).

The only thing that ever really changed was the awareness of people in Ireland regarding his abilities. He was already a big name in the UK and France where he had over 100 appearances for Perpignan including being their captain for a spell.

I guess you answered my question

pickarooney

Did anyone outside of Ireland rate D'Arcy really?
I thought he was just considered as O'Driscolls centre partner and nothing more.

I'm sick of Cian Healy at this stage. Lost all patience with him.