**Spoilers** Series 9, Episode 12 - "Hell Bent"

pixelburp

Doesn't time fly; last episode of the regular series. The last two episodes have been pretty strong, with 'Heaven Sent' arguably one of best episodes in recent years. And while a couple of episodes have been a bit rubbish, I think Series 9 has been pretty solid, particularly when viewed as a character drama. The story of Clara and the Doctor has certainly kept the engine running.

So, all this talk of 'the hybrid', and the Doctor remarking that the Daleks would never allow a hybrid, does anyone else think the revelation might be

the mix is the Doctor & they're going to rework in his half-human heritage? After all these years pretending it was never mentioned.

Then again, he did say the hybrid was 'me', which could also refer to Ashildr, given that's technically her name

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxvGCYzh8aY

Mr Bloat

Can. Not. Wait.

While I've enjoyed Doctor Who over the last few years, it's been a while since the show has been this good.

Wibbs

It's probably the "Me" lass. After all she's a human(who've been regularly seen as a dangerous species) with those warrior dudes - whose name escapes - technology in her head keeping her alive/immortal.

jasonb

Wibbs wrote: »

It's probably the "Me" lass. After all she's a human(who've been regularly seen as a dangerous species) with those warrior dudes - whose name escapes - technology in her head keeping her alive/immortal.

And let's not forget:

She's not just human, she's also a Viking, who were fairly well known for being warriors

J.

Das Kitty

Well...
Speculation below

The Time Lords feared the hybrid was to be part Dalek, part Time Lord. This was described as "Two warrior races". They were worried about what would get mixed with Time Lord. So for me, and I'm probably hoping here, Ashildr's mix isn't a threat to Gallifrey. She has no tie to it. She is no part Time Lord.

So what I'm saying is that I'd desperately love for the Doctor to be confirmed as half human on his mother's side.

It fits. He's constantly drawn back to earth, picks human companions for the most part, constantly complaining about the way humans conduct themselves in a way that sounds like it's personal. Saving the earth is his pet project.

jasonb

I do like that idea Das Kitty...

By the way, I wonder if we'll see:

'Me's second reviver. Remember the Doctor gave her another, in case she needed company, and so far she's never used it, I think it's still hanging around her neck. That might be a 'get out of death free' card for someone

J.

Das Kitty

jasonb wrote: »

I do like that idea Das Kitty...

By the way, I wonder if we'll see:

'Me's second reviver. Remember the Doctor gave her another, in case she needed company, and so far she's never used it, I think it's still hanging around her neck. That might be a 'get out of death free' card for someone

J.

She did use it. On the comedy fella from her second episode.

jasonb

Das Kitty wrote: »

She did use it. On the comedy fella from her second episode.

Wow! I completely forgot that. And him! It goes to show how much more serious and important the story has been over the last few episodes...

J.

pixelburp

Das Kitty wrote: »

Well...
Speculation below

So what I'm saying is that I'd desperately love for the Doctor to be confirmed as half human on his mother's side.

It fits. He's constantly drawn back to earth, picks human companions for the most part, constantly complaining about the way humans conduct themselves in a way that sounds like it's personal. Saving the earth is his pet project.

It has been Dr. Who's dirty piece of continuity that nobody has touched, and everyone has ignored, since it was mentioned by Paul McGann back in the 1996 TV movie. And while I don't like the notion myself, part of me would love it if Moffat openly acknowledged & embraced it as 'true' canon. Given the flak he has received in the last couple of years from all quarters, it'd seem like a ballsy 'f*ck you'

tritium

Given she's in the episode it will probably turn out to be ashildr, which would be a real pity. Moffatt has a bad habit of being clever with words and shoehorning in too many twists.

The possibilities of the doctor as the hybrid are pretty cool.

The_Valeyard

Well, that was an interesting opening sequence!

exaisle

Clara........Good! :-)

SueBoom

Jeeeeeesus! She better actually be dead, enough already.

Edit: Phew!

Are you travelling

From time to time


Ahhhh

WomanSkirtFan8

Classic TARDIS interior YEEESSSS!!

Fantastic Episode so far!! :cool:

exaisle

Steven Moffat....all is forgiven...

Omg that was amazing

Just amazing

the music too, i love clara's theme

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqAblY4tWJo
sob

The_Valeyard

Great episode. Confusing but great

SueBoom

Perfect! Loved every minute.

Lord TSC

That. Was. Amazing.

I loved it. An awesome end to Clara. The twist of the Doctor being the one not knowing who he was speaking too.....the visual of Clara and Me going off on adventures....the fact the Diner was a Tardis....

Just loved it. What an amazing episode.

pixelburp

I suspect the 'make the doctor a female' crowd will only get louder after that episode

SueBoom

When he said four knocks I definitely thought it was going to be The Master/Missy.

WomanSkirtFan8

WOW!

What an exceptionally brilliant episode that was! Still only just digesting it but holy moly!... a cracker of an episode!

Christmas Special looks absoutely amazing too! Well done Steven Moffat, Peter Capaldi and everyone else involved! Well done guys!

Professey Chin

Absolutely loved it!

bren2001

Absolutely brilliant end to a season with some really great episodes. Why they decided to mess with my heart one more time and bring Clara back I don't know but... I dunno. I'm still trying to work it all out.

Penn

Disappointed Timothy Dalton didn't come back as Rassilon, though given The Master regenerated, makes sense he did too.

Other than that, fantastic episode. A worthy series finale. Really hope Clara never comes back, but it's a much better ending for her than Face The Raven.

pixelburp

It also keeps the door open for cameos of course, who's to say Clara &Me can't pop up from time to time while they travel around in their TARDIS. The doctor will know Me of course, Clara might prove tricky.

Dunno though, feel like the chance for Clara to flit around the universe, playing doctor, feels like a reward for her hubris, even if she's still gotta die sometime.

Fantastic episode othwrwise, and a fantastic capper to a pretty stellar trio of episodes. Still trying unparsel some of the throwaway lines: did I understand correctly a line suggestions Susan wasnt actually the doc's real granddaughter?

Das Kitty

I think I need to watch that again!

Eugene Norman

pixelburp wrote: »

It also keeps the door open for cameos of course, who's to say Clara &Me can't pop up from time to time while they travel around in their TARDIS. The doctor will know Me of course, Clara might prove tricky.

Dunno though, feel like the chance for Clara to flit around the universe, playing doctor, feels like a reward for her hubris, even if she's still gotta die sometime.

Fantastic episode othwrwise, and a fantastic capper to a pretty stellar trio of episodes. Still trying unparsel some of the throwaway lines: did I understand correctly a line suggestions Susan wasnt actually the doc's real granddaughter?

I mean they could get a spin off (though neither are real time lords just immortals – well an immortal and a time locked person) but more likely - you're right - Clara will turn up in cameos.

Eugene Norman

pixelburp wrote: »

It has been Dr. Who's dirty piece of continuity that nobody has touched, and everyone has ignored, since it was mentioned by Paul McGann back in the 1996 TV movie. And while I don't like the notion myself, part of me would love it if Moffat openly acknowledged & embraced it as 'true' canon. Given the flak he has received in the last couple of years from all quarters, it'd seem like a ballsy 'f*ck you'

( I got rid of your spoiler tags as you weren't spoiling anything).

His half human past was definitely mentioned, and not denied.

Duckjob

Goosebumps... Had all the elements that makes Dr Who so brilliant.

Just can't wait for the Christmas Day special.

Also Starring LeVar Burton

Great end to Clara's tenure as companion. Really enjoyed that episode and as mentioned the final 3 episodes have been superb - actually apart from that found footage episode, this season has been pretty great.

Angron

SueBoom wrote: »

When he said four knocks I definitely thought it was going to be The Master/Missy.

At least it wasn't Wilfred :pac:

SueBoom

Angron wrote: »

At least it wasn't Wilfred :pac:

I was having flashbacks of that bloody glass case!

mrkiscool2

Hmmm, I seem to have a completely different opinion to everyone here about this episode. Firstly, let me say something. I tried my very best not to compare this to "Heaven Sent", I really did. But seeing how great Capaldi was without Coleman there meant I couldn't. I've always felt Coleman stole a lot of Capaldi's thunder and this episode was no different. And that's not because Coleman out-acts Capaldi, she never has in my opinion, but by how she is written as an almost equal, if not better, than the Doctor. Once they went the direction they did with the 12th Doctor, Clara was always going to be an awful fit as a companion. Sorry, but she was. Her and the 11th got on so well due to their caring nature, having her seem more Doctor than The Doctor was always going to detract.

Now, onto my criticism of the episode. It's still a great episode, don't get me wrong. But the let so much slip wit it. Firstly, the whole Gallifrey thing. I was so excited for it and it was just entirely disappointing. The best part was The Doctor drawing the line in the sand, as was him going back inside each time the Lord President didn't appear infront of him. But the rest? Apart from the old Tardis (which I will get back to), was glob-awful. Capaldi acted well, a man torn between his values and his love for the woman who basically saved him, Coleman acted well but she shouldn't have even been involved in the episode. I didn't like her at any point during the 12th Doctors run and I actually almost cried when she died, which says a lot. To bring her back was silly.

Also, she was all set to go back to die and then, for no apparent reason other than how long The Doctor was in the last will and testament for, she decides not to. Firstly, it completely nullified her speech from "Face The Raven" as well as being a complete turn-about in her character full-stop, never mind from just the episode. Sure, the ending was heart-breaking and unexpected in a way, but at the same time there could have been so much more done with the episode.

I found the change in the Doctor to be annoying as I know it won't even last through the Christmas Special, never-mind into the next series. Seriously, continuity is a big deal. Not giving us that, after such an amazing season that was full of a less-caring, more direct Doctor, is just insulting.

Again, lots of contradictions in this episode. Moffat basically betrayed every part of the Doctor we have seen in the last two series in one episode. Good episode in some ways but I also have a lot of anger against it.

Tzar Chasm

So, Clara and ashilder are immortal and have a tardis, ashilder is 8+ BILLION years old, and clara also exists in some form at all points in space and time

Eugene Norman

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

So, Clara and ashilder are immortal and have a tardis, ashilder is 8+ BILLION years old, and clara also exists in some form at all points in space and time

Well the jury is out in the impossible girl, it's hard to say what happened there. The doctor did go in and rescue her so that may not matter.


For those of you worrying that Clara is breaking the rules by not dying in London – given the nature of time travel she can turn up in Gallifrey at any time and then get inserted back into the last second of her life. The episode was clear that her heartbeat hadn't re-started. She's still dead in London.

Wibbs

I didn't dislike it as much as mrkiscool2 did, but I see their points TBH. It was a warm and cuddly send off for Coleman and her fans and it was very well written and directed(especially the latter), but for me it was just as self indulgent as Roses second goodbye, which fans near universally slate. For some reason Clara(and Moffat) gets more leeway, even though being the impossible girl she made bad wolf look like a puppy.

Clara dying was good writing and a fitting and logical end to her latter hubris and emotionally powerful with it. The previous xmas possible ending of her being an old woman would have worked well too. Rose on the beach that first time was fitting and emotionally powerful too(and Piper stole it), the second time was a sop. She got her Doctor and happy ending(wasn't there originally a bit in the script that they even got a bit of a Tardis too?). Now Clara is essentially immortal**, has her own also immortal companion and a brand new Tardis*, which they can now both fly like old hands at it? She became the Doctor, something he was dead set against. It made little sense in the overall story.

Caveat; I did really enjoy it and was glad to see Coleman do a curtain call, that's the sentimentalist in me. I loved seeing Rose come back too though majorly disliked the how. However as an overall fan it rang hollow for me. If Rose had been left on that beach alone and Clara had died on that street it would have been better storytelling IMH. I liked how the Ponds left and especially how Donna did.




*whoever's building these things back home really should fire the bloke in charge of the chameleon circuit mind you..

** [Nerd] now she's a fixed point in time. Like Capt Jack was and the Doc could hardly bear to look at him because he was so "wrong". How come 12 didn't spot her right away in the cafe?

FunLover18

Eugene Norman wrote:

For those of you worrying that Clara is breaking the rules by not dying in London – given the nature of time travel she can turn up in Gallifrey at any time and then get inserted back into the last second of her life. The episode was clear that her heartbeat hadn't re-started. She's still dead in London.

But could she not die on one of her adventures and therefore still fracture time.

was it ever explained why the Doctor was dishevelled and wearing a hoodie throughout the first half of the season and all the subtle hints about him knowing she was going to die.

Wibbs

FunLover18 wrote: »

But could she not die on one of her adventures and therefore still fracture time.

It seems she's like Capt Jack a fixed point in time and can't die. Unless time "heals itself" and her heart starts again. Or something.

Tzar Chasm

Jack can die, he just dosent stay dead, i suspect that shes more like owen

pixelburp

Yeah, I think that Clara isn't really alive, that the idea of the fixed point in time means damage can't really occur that won't heal and revert the person back to that point. Heck captain jack was blown to pieces, yet still coalesced back to his normal form.

pixelburp

Wibbs wrote: »

. For some reason Clara(and Moffat) gets more leeway, even though being the impossible girl she made bad wolf look like a puppy.

Im not sure about that, seems like Moffat gets absolutely no leeway these days from some quarters, regardless what he writes

Wibbs

pixelburp wrote: »

Im not sure about that, seems like Moffat gets absolutely no leeway these days from some quarters, regardless what he writes

I suppose PB. Though I suspect the same or similar quarters would have had a meltdown if RTD had written Clara the way she was written. Rose got awful stick from some, but Clara is like oul Rosie on steroids.

kylith

Well, I really disliked it.

I'm not a fan of Clara anyway (I never could get past the whole 'Oh Doctor, you're so dreamy' stuff that ran through 10 and 11's runs), but her death in Face the Raven was good and brave and worthy and to just have it all undone in this episode totally negates her bravery and sacrifice in that episode. There's no peril in Moffatt scripts; if someone dies you only have to wait a little while and they'll be back.

I squeed for the first time in years at the Gallifrey reveal last week but it was just totally wasted on saving Clara, who didn't even want to be saved in the first place. So much could have been done with Gallifrey and the Hybrid and the Cloister and the Cloister Wraiths and it just felt entirely wasted.

Series finales used to have Dalek invasions and worlds in peril and adventure and excitement and now it's just... this. Possibly it's because Heaven Sent was so brilliant, and gave Capaldi some real room to show his mettle and this week just felt like a let down. It was like going to a restaurant and being served fillet steak with all the trimmings for your main course and then being handed a bowl of tinned prunes and packet custard for dessert. It's grand if you're expecting prunes and custard, but not so good when you've been built up to expect something really good.

pixelburp

kylith wrote: »

I'm not a fan of Clara anyway (I never could get past the whole 'Oh Doctor, you're so dreamy' stuff that ran through 10 and 11's runs), but her death in Face the Raven was good and brave and worthy and to just have it all undone in this episode totally negates her bravery and sacrifice in that episode. There's no peril in Moffatt scripts; if someone dies you only have to wait a little while and they'll be back.

But her bravery remains; she's still going to die, she has to. She has nowhere to go except to meet her death. This way she at least gets some closure, a proper goodbye and final journey - in fact she gets a chance to 'graduate' as a Doctor of sorts; a plot that had been explicitly earmarked throughout the series.

The issue of death been a problem with Sci-Fi since year zero of the genre though, I don't think that's Moffat's specific problem. Once the technology within the world becomes sufficiently 'magical' in quality, more things are open. Hey, at least this isn't comic books, where death has become an utterly meaningless, redundant concept.

kylith wrote: »

Series finales used to have Dalek invasions and worlds in peril and adventure and excitement and now it's just... this.

That's part of the problem though: RTD's last series in charge had the entirety of space and time in peril. Literally every atom of the universe was under threat. The stake had become ludicrous, unwieldy and frankly impossible to relate to. I think Doctor Who shot itself in the foot by escalating the threat every series finale, simply because of the unwritten rule to make things bigger and louder than the last time around. It had nowhere to go except to dial the stakes back a little, to make it about the characters.

Mr.Saturn

Having spent much of my adolescence seeing it debated throughout Gallifrey Base, I took one slightly pedantic note away from the finale:

They're gonna be a bit ambiguous about the number of regenerations they granted The Doctor. Rassilon's "how many regenerations did we grant you? I have all night?" leaves it open a wee bit. Could be used for dramatic tension down-the-line where The Doctor's unsure if it's death or a new life.

As to the hybrid, I imagine it's gonna be run with a bit. If you want it, the fact The Doctor dethroned Gallifrey's head-of-state could be construed as having left it in ruin. Then, there's The Doctor and Clara, Me, or Clara (as a human revived by Time Lord science) herself for contenders too. Mind, can see it returning as something of a wider arc, similar to the cracks in 11's run. Especially given the fact

River Song (human crossed with Time Lord) is appearing in the Xmas special.

Must admit I was primed for something a bit grander in scale given the singular nature of "Heaven Sent" but another more personal tale wasn't entirely unwelcome.

pixelburp wrote: »

That's part of the problem though: RTD's last series in charge had the entirety of space and time in peril. Literally every atom of the universe was under threat. The stake had become ludicrous, unwieldy and frankly impossible to relate to. I think Doctor Who shot itself in the foot by escalating the threat every series finale, simply because of the unwritten rule to make things bigger and louder than the last time around. It had nowhere to go except to dial the stakes back a little, to make it about the characters.

I don't think I need to qualify how highly I hold so much of RTD's work in the highest affection, but I would echo this sentiment wholly. Had he not left when he did, I imagine the only course of dramatic stakes left would be if he were to smash the fourth wall and have the big-bad actually threaten the viewer.

Penn

Mr.Saturn wrote: »

As to the hybrid, I imagine it's gonna be run with a bit. If you want it, the fact The Doctor dethroned Gallifrey's head-of-state could be construed as having left it in ruin.

After that, The General referred to The Doctor as Lord President, so it seems as well as being President of the World, he's also now President of Gallifrey. And he's half Time Lord, half human.

Next year's big bad will be Time-Trump demanding to see his birth certificate.

kylith

While I agree that RTD's constant universe peril couldn't be sustained a bit of peril wouldn't hurt. After all, time is supposed to fracture if fixed points are messed with. How great would that have been? Time falling apart as the episode finished and the next season being the doctor trying to figure out how and why, while having no clue about what happened with Clara.

Sure it'll all be fine because she can go back to Gallifrey and get put back in at her death but who's to say she doesn't fly into a sun, or get fed into a meat grinder, or her TARDIS runs out of petrol on some backwater moon?

And the Doctor really didn't notice or wonder about the fact that there was a painting of the waitress he'd just been talking to on the front of the TARDIS? Really? Not so much as a raised eyebrow?

Eugene Norman

kylith wrote: »

While I agree that RTD's constant universe peril couldn't be sustained a bit of peril wouldn't hurt. After all, time is supposed to fracture if fixed points are messed with. How great would that have been? Time falling apart as the episode finished and the next season being the doctor trying to figure out how and why, while having no clue about what happened with Clara.

Sure it'll all be fine because she can go back to Gallifrey and get put back in at her death but who's to say she doesn't fly into a sun, or get fed into a meat grinder, or her TARDIS runs out of petrol on some backwater moon?

And the Doctor really didn't notice or wonder about the fact that there was a painting of the waitress he'd just been talking to on the front of the TARDIS? Really? Not so much as a raised eyebrow?

Moffat is a clever boy. He said he had no season arcs this year but there's the hybrid. And I doubt that's finished yet. He also made it clear that it wasn't yet established who the hybrid is? Me, the Doctor or the Doctor and Clara? Something else? It must be something big to threathen Gallifrey.

It's a two season arc. At least.

Of course the doctor noticed that the girl in the restaurant was on the tardis. He also probably noticed that the restaurant disappeared and left the tardis (lost until then) behind. It's just, the episode ended.

And fair play to Moffats misdirection. The doctor worrying about Clara. The references to the longest month. The time she was in the dalek and mysteriously escaped. Missy and Clara. Jenny Coleman saying she is leaving. All misdirection or lies.


Clara is not a companion but will be a recurring character. Me as well.

Which means we get capaldi on his own in many episodes ( no better doctor for that) and Jenny Coleman pops in, like a captain jack, every so often. Win win for me.

Penn

kylith wrote: »

While I agree that RTD's constant universe peril couldn't be sustained a bit of peril wouldn't hurt. After all, time is supposed to fracture if fixed points are messed with. How great would that have been? Time falling apart as the episode finished and the next season being the doctor trying to figure out how and why, while having no clue about what happened with Clara.

Sure it'll all be fine because she can go back to Gallifrey and get put back in at her death but who's to say she doesn't fly into a sun, or get fed into a meat grinder, or her TARDIS runs out of petrol on some backwater moon?

And the Doctor really didn't notice or wonder about the fact that there was a painting of the waitress he'd just been talking to on the front of the TARDIS? Really? Not so much as a raised eyebrow?

Once problems start occurring due to Clara not being dead, she'll either return to Gallifrey or the Time Lords will bring her back (either through bringing the Tardis back as Clara/Me can't hide it like the Doctor could, or will hunt her down, as like the Doctor said, he had to wipe her memory of him or they'd be able to find her).

I really doubt Clara will ever come back. To me, the ending was more of a happy send off for her than a hint she'll be a recurring character in the future.