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Dublin Bus not picking up passengers despite having plenty of room

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    #62
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users Posts: 13,336 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    lxflyer wrote: »

    When you looked initially at the RTPI sign, it was reading from the schedule for the 05:00 departure, but for whatever reason the bus was late leaving Heuston, and as a result disappeared from the display. You were then seeing the schedule for the 05:15 departure.

    It's quite possible it re-appeared a few minutes later once the first bus actually arrived at Heuston and departed on its journey.

    Surely it would make sense for the display to distinguish between timetable and actual, so it would read 19M (T) when reading from the schedule and 13M (A) when the bus has started (or Gaeilge equivalents, doesn't really matter).

    The name of the system is RTPI, so it really should make clear when the information being given is timetable rather than RTPI.


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    #63
    cdebru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,761 ✭✭✭cdebru


    lxflyer wrote: »
    While I can't comment on the case above, other than to say that it sounds completely unacceptable behaviour, there are certainly instances of where a controller will instruct a driver to switch his display to out of service and to operate in set down mode only.

    This is only done where a bus is running late and the controller is trying to get both the bus and driver back to where they ought to be and restore the service to normal. Like it or not buses can get delayed for a variety of reasons, and if the controllers didn't do this, they would never get the service back on track for the rest of the day.

    But it should only happen along sections of the route where there is an alternative service so that people are not left standing.

    Issues can arise where this starts to happen on a recurring basis, and this is generally down to increasing traffic levels meaning that the bus doesn't have sufficient running time to get from one terminus to the other. In this case it generally means that a new schedule needs to be drawn up using more resources, and unfortunately that generally takes time to resolve.

    However, a bus passing a stop in service with spare capacity should simply not happen - drivers have CCTV showing them the upper deck so they can see if there are spare seats available. It's not acceptable and should be reported.


    Just to point out that there is no agreement on operating a bus with passengers "out of service" in actual fact there is a specific instruction from both trade unions not to operate in this manner. The bus is either in service or it is not, all this does is allow DB and the NTA to pretend that service is being provided when it clearly is not.

    If passengers refuse to go upstairs then a driver cannot continue to load a bus to full capacity. A lot of passengers are nervous about going upstairs particularly lone women and on certain routes or at times of the day particularly night time.



    Standing passengers are only supposed to be carried at peak times not at 10pm


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    #64
    cdebru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,761 ✭✭✭cdebru


    VG31 wrote: »
    I'm interested to know if anyone has seen someone open the doors themselves with the exterior button when a driver would not open them.




    It's my understanding that if the bus has not pulled out from the stop the driver can reopen the doors.

    I know the company policy but I have seen many times where drivers have been deliberately nasty about it. Once for example, an elderly woman was running for the bus (from the front in plain view of the driver) and was almost there and the driver shut the doors and drove off.

    Its an offence to interfere with the doors that includes opening the doors with the emergency buttons except in the case of an emergency and you missing the bus is not an emergency.

    Once the doors have closed the bus has left the stop, if the driver wants to re open the doors that is up to them but they are under no obligation to do it.
    It often depends on the stop particularly busy stops then most won't because the line has to be drawn somewhere otherwise the bus would sit there all day reopening the doors every time the next person arrived.
    It also depends on the level of service, if its a 10 minute service or an hour service, I have also seen drivers do it were a driver behind them is deliberately staying behind to avoid working.


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    #65
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,600 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    cdebru wrote: »
    I have also seen drivers do it were a driver behind them is deliberately staying behind to avoid working.

    I have seen that as well, years ago it was commonplace on the 38/a.

    However can you explain why a bus would regularly run early by a few minutes, and out of service for the first few stops of a route in order to "avoid possible delays en-route".

    To me it's unacceptable for a bus to ever run early.


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    #66
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Luckly we've real time information and DB will inform the public of buses running in set down mode in advance so people can make alternative plans :rolleyes:


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    #67
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    cdebru wrote: »
    Standing passengers are only supposed to be carried at peak times not at 10pm

    What ? Why ? For a bus company DB do have a lot of reasons to be able to not pick up passengers.


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    #68
    GLaDOS
    Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 23,213 Mod ✭✭✭✭GLaDOS


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Luckly we've real time information and DB will inform the public of buses running in set down mode in advance so people can make alternative plans :rolleyes:

    That's my number one annoyance with Dublin Bus. Cancelled buses, or buses only running to the city centre, not reflected in the real time. Usually it would be easy enough to get a different bus or some other transport, but instead your left waiting like a idiot for a bus that isn't coming/going where you need it to.

    Cake, and grief counseling, will be available at the conclusion of the test



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    #69
    lil5
    Registered Users Posts: 430 ✭✭lil5


    cdebru wrote: »
    Just to point out that there is no agreement on operating a bus with passengers "out of service" in actual fact there is a specific instruction from both trade unions not to operate in this manner. The bus is either in service or it is not, all this does is allow DB and the NTA to pretend that service is being provided when it clearly is not....

    Plenty of the union members seem to ignore this in their daily routine.

    cdebru wrote: »
    ...
    Standing passengers are only supposed to be carried at peak times not at 10pm

    Can't stand after 10 pm?


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    #70
    Kyleboy
    Registered Users Posts: 243 ✭✭Kyleboy


    ScienceNerd wrote: »
    That's my number one annoyance with Dublin Bus. Cancelled buses, or buses only running to the city centre, not reflected in the real time. Usually it would be easy enough to get a different bus or some other transport, but instead your left waiting like a idiot for a bus that isn't coming/going where you need it to.

    Get on to the NTA, the controller's in central aren't doing there job properly


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    #71
    Bray Head
    Registered Users Posts: 894 ✭✭✭Bray Head


    Here's what I do.

    Get as many details of bus as possible, the number of the stop, precise time of day, direction of service.

    Don't bother with phone or email. Write a letter marked 'private and confidential' to the CEO of Dublin Bus setting out your problem.

    I get quite prompt responses whenever I do this. I have no idea if it improves the service but it does make me feel better:-)


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    #72
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,159 ✭✭✭plodder


    The one time I've complained to Dublin Bus, it was taken seriously and I got an answer and a promise of action. Otoh, the one time I emailed Swords Express asking why a bus didn't turn up, I never got a reply. It might seem strange, but semi-states are at least partly accountable to the public. Private operators don't seem to be at all.


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    #73
    DeltaWhite
    Registered Users Posts: 666 ✭✭✭DeltaWhite


    I don't understand why so many are saying not to contact DB.

    I contacted them about issues I was having with the bus I get everyday and they went out of their way to help me.

    Granted I did state in my original e-mail that I wanted more than a generic response, but I am more than happy with how they handled it, they went above and beyond after my complaint. Even going so far to have inspectors board the bus to make sure everything was ok.

    So I think OP you should contact DB. I didn't even have to chase them for a reply, so go for it and see what happens. Best of luck.


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    #74
    Bray Head
    Registered Users Posts: 894 ✭✭✭Bray Head


    plodder wrote: »
    The one time I've complained to Dublin Bus, it was taken seriously and I got an answer and a promise of action. Otoh, the one time I emailed Swords Express asking why a bus didn't turn up, I never got a reply. It might seem strange, but semi-states are at least partly accountable to the public. Private operators don't seem to be at all.

    And from your sample size of 2 you draw a scientific conclusion?


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    #75
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,159 ✭✭✭plodder


    Bray Head wrote: »
    And from your sample size of 2 you draw a scientific conclusion?
    I never said it was scientific. But, it's the full extent of my experience (complaining). Draw your own different conclusions, if you want.


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    #76
    adocholiday
    Registered Users Posts: 1,852 ✭✭✭adocholiday


    To refer to the OP's point about buses passing with room on board: I can get one of a number of buses on the N11 and a lot of them are full when they pass, however sometimes you see one passing with lots of room (one particular 84x driver comes to mind). Anyway because there was a huge amount of passengers being left at the stop, some inspectors came out for a few days to assess the situation. They stopped every bus, got on and noted the approx number of passengers and would get a few people on if they could.

    Anyway one bus was stopped with maybe 4 or 5 people standing and the seats were full. The inspector told people to get on the bus and the driver went mad! He was giving off to the inspector about how he was the driver and he wasn't comfortable driving all of these standing passengers etc etc. The inspector told him that he had no choice and he could take it up back at the depot.

    That left me wondering how many other drivers have the same unofficial policy of only having a few standing passengers?


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    #77
    MuffinsDa
    Registered Users Posts: 1,225 ✭✭✭MuffinsDa


    adocholiday wrote: »

    Anyway one bus was stopped with maybe 4 or 5 people standing and the seats were full. The inspector told people to get on the bus and the driver went mad! He was giving off to the inspector about how he was the driver and he wasn't comfortable driving all of these standing passengers etc etc. The inspector told him that he had no choice and he could take it up back at the depot.

    That left me wondering how many other drivers have the same unofficial policy of only having a few standing passengers?

    Wow. Very interesting! Amazing! It's all about COMFORT of the drivers then according to the said driver, not the actual standard/safe capacity of the bus and the safety of passengers or go forbid, their convenience?!


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    #78
    MuffinsDa
    Registered Users Posts: 1,225 ✭✭✭MuffinsDa


    DeltaWhite wrote: »
    I don't understand why so many are saying not to contact DB.

    I contacted them about issues I was having with the bus I get everyday and they went out of their way to help me.

    Granted I did state in my original e-mail that I wanted more than a generic response, but I am more than happy with how they handled it, they went above and beyond after my complaint. Even going so far to have inspectors board the bus to make sure everything was ok.

    So I think OP you should contact DB. I didn't even have to chase them for a reply, so go for it and see what happens. Best of luck.

    Yep I have done that already, and like you, I requested investigation into specific case rather than generic answer. I gave them all the details they need for investigation.


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    #79
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,913 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    As a DB user I have to say the vast majority of DB drivers are the salt of the earth. In fact on several occasions they waited for me until I got across the road to the stop by my house!

    There are bad eggs in every walk of life.

    Regarding complaints, thankfully, I haven't had to make many, but when I did, I looked up the depot/garage number and got straight through to control. They were able to explain the problem right then and there. Sorted. At least I had an explanation!


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    #80
    MuffinsDa
    Registered Users Posts: 1,225 ✭✭✭MuffinsDa


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    As a DB user I have to say the vast majority of DB drivers are the salt of the earth. In fact on several occasions they waited for me until I got across the road to the stop by my house!

    Absolutely. The driver I met on Friday night who helped catch up with my bus was a great example. Extremely helpful, friendly, relaxed!


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    #81
    cdebru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,761 ✭✭✭cdebru


    devnull wrote: »
    I have seen that as well, years ago it was commonplace on the 38/a.

    However can you explain why a bus would regularly run early by a few minutes, and out of service for the first few stops of a route in order to "avoid possible delays en-route".

    To me it's unacceptable for a bus to ever run early.

    I have seen controllers do it, to give people further up the route a chance to get on a bus. I have seen controllers do it because that particular departure regularly arrives late at the other terminus and that departure is important it operates, for schools or a particular business served by that route.
    What I can tell you is that the controllers can immediately see a bus departing early so its not the drivers deciding to do it imo.


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    #82
    cdebru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,761 ✭✭✭cdebru


    lil5 wrote: »
    Plenty of the union members seem to ignore this in their daily routine.




    Can't stand after 10 pm?


    They certainly do which will tell you all you read about the unions running the place is BS.

    Its the companies own rules standing passengers are for peak times, however the company only operate within rules that suit them at a given moment.


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    #83
    MuffinsDa
    Registered Users Posts: 1,225 ✭✭✭MuffinsDa


    cdebru wrote: »
    They certainly do which will tell you all you read about the unions running the place is BS.

    Its the companies own rules standing passengers are for peak times, however the company only operate within rules that suit them at a given moment.

    That's interesting. I didn't know that.
    Can you clarify (based on your post above):
    1. Is this DB's standard operating procedure to only allow standing passengers at peak time? Any references that you can share or any one from DB that can comment on that?
    2. If yes, then when are these "peak times"?


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