Dublin Bus not picking up passengers despite having plenty of room

MuffinsDa

Last night I flagged down a bus (145) on Leeson street. The bus clearly wasn't full (there weren't many people standing downstairs). However, the driver completely ignored me and sped off away! I was shocked. Immediately after that, a 46A bus arrived and the driver couldn't be nicer: he picked me up and told me he'll eventually catch up with 145 in front. Which he did! I got off and ran into the other bus to find it still half-empty with room both upstairs and downstairs.

To my utter surprise, the driver kept doing the same along the stops on N11. It was a very cold night and this was around 10pm, and I could see people looking completely shocked and throwing their arms up in the air while he sped past them! There were about 8-10 people standing downstairs and there was seating room available upstairs.

I didn't challenge the driver as I didn't want to delay other passengers but I took a photo of him and the bus as I got off. I think this is absolutely unacceptable behaviour, especially considering that the next bus was about 30 mins away.

Is there any way at all that I can report this somewhere to have something meaningful done about it, or is DB going to laugh when I complain? Where is the best place to address the complaint to?

weldoninhio

MuffinsDa wrote: »

Last night I flagged down a bus (145) on Leeson street. The bus clearly wasn't full (there weren't many people standing downstairs). However, the driver completely ignored me and sped off away! I was shocked. Immediately after that, a 46A bus arrived and the driver couldn't be nicer: he picked me up and told me he'll eventually catch up with 145 in front. Which he did! I got off and ran into the other bus to find it still half-empty with room both upstairs and downstairs.

To my utter surprise, the driver kept doing the same along the stops on N11. It was a very cold night and this was around 10pm, and I could see people looking completely shocked and throwing their arms up in the air while he sped past them! There were about 8-10 people standing downstairs and there was seating room available upstairs.

I didn't challenge the driver as I didn't want to delay other passengers but I took a photo of him and the bus as I got off. I think this is absolutely unacceptable behaviour, especially considering that the next bus was about 30 mins away.

Is there any way at all that I can report this somewhere to have something meaningful done about it, or is DB going to laugh when I complain? Where is the best place to address the complaint to?

Same thing happened to me twice. They give you some website to write to, but you never hear anything back. They don't care.

Rakish Paddy

Yep, it definitely happens. It doesn't happen a lot, but on numerous occasions I have had a bus with plenty of space go right past me despite standing in a clearly visible position at the stop and flagging it well in advance. I'll usually report the bus number, stop number and date/time to Dublin Bus when it happens. It probably goes into a black hole but it makes me feel better!

the groutch

It can sometimes be a case of a bus being way behind schedule (as is possible with yesterday's weather), and getting orders to do no pick-ups beyond a certain point to make up the time.

Snickers Man

Just a suggestion: do you think it might be worthwhile dropping a line to the union about this. Very politely. Just pointing out to them that this is not the best way to engender good will among the general public/ordinary working people for their members and that this sort of thing, even if it's rare, becomes the sort of grievance that people remember if the union ever gets into the sort of dispute that would require the tacit support of the general public?

It's a long shot. But if there were ever to be a major dispute about something like extensive privatisation of routes the CIE workers' line would be along "supporting the ordinary working people" and "not handing over commuters to the mercy of profit-maximising capitalists" and "only public-sector companies can deliver the sort of equitable service we all need."

If that can be countered with the line "They're the feckers that leave you standing in the cold because they can't be arsed to stop if they're in a hurry to finish their shift" and if enough people have experienced such treatment for it not to be an urban myth, it won't do the busmen any good in the long term. It would make people more willing to support privatised services. The situations may not be identical but look what Ryanair did to Aer Lingus.


Just an idea. And it would have to be politely worded to assure them that you have the best long-term interest of their members at heart. But it might be worthwhile.

lil5

Happens frequently at stop #847 Leeson Street, Mespil Road for the 145 bus whizzing down Leeson Street.

It's probably their inoffical 'not in service'-run.
Or their own way of short working ...

Shelflife

the groutch wrote: »

It can sometimes be a case of a bus being way behind schedule (as is possible with yesterday's weather), and getting orders to do no pick-ups beyond a certain point to make up the time.

That makes no sense at all, you could in theory have a bus in a route not picking up anyone just to finish the route on time !

Triangla

I can't see an issue with just politely asking the driver.

If he's acting on orders not to pick up you can complain to the relevant area.

If he's just not doing his job and ignoring waiting passengers then you also know where to complain.

There's nothing wrong with talking to people to find out what's going on.

MuffinsDa

Thanks for advice guys.
I took down his number (And a photo with him in it for good measure).
I am writing to the central customer relations email and also sending a hard copy to Donnybrook Depot Manager, I'll follow it by badgering the depot manager on the phone if he doesn't respond!

FluffyMcCardy

Nothing new about this. I remember being passed by no less than two buses on one occasion. Near empty buses too. In the morning as well. So no end of shift excuse. Plus I've been on buses and see it happen.

Complain away but the first time I came across it was in the eighties. So it's been happening forever.

CaoimheSquee

145 is notorious for doing this. Happens all the time.
84X is getting pretty bad for it too in the last few months now also through Donnybrook.

I have given up reporting it.
It does absolutely nothing.
I just avoid completely and hang on till later in work or get a dart and bus later in the journey the rest of the way when I can.
It adds at least an extra 20 minutes to my journey but at least I am on the way home and not standing there while several buses with definite and obvious standing room pass me by! Not good for the blood pressure!

GLaDOS

Triangla wrote: »

I can't see an issue with just politely asking the driver.

If he's acting on orders not to pick up you can complain to the relevant area.

If he's just not doing his job and ignoring waiting passengers then you also know where to complain.

There's nothing wrong with talking to people to find out what's going on.

How do you ask the driver if you're not on the bus?

LXFlyer

While I can't comment on the case above, other than to say that it sounds completely unacceptable behaviour, there are certainly instances of where a controller will instruct a driver to switch his display to out of service and to operate in set down mode only.

This is only done where a bus is running late and the controller is trying to get both the bus and driver back to where they ought to be and restore the service to normal. Like it or not buses can get delayed for a variety of reasons, and if the controllers didn't do this, they would never get the service back on track for the rest of the day.

But it should only happen along sections of the route where there is an alternative service so that people are not left standing.

Issues can arise where this starts to happen on a recurring basis, and this is generally down to increasing traffic levels meaning that the bus doesn't have sufficient running time to get from one terminus to the other. In this case it generally means that a new schedule needs to be drawn up using more resources, and unfortunately that generally takes time to resolve.

However, a bus passing a stop in service with spare capacity should simply not happen - drivers have CCTV showing them the upper deck so they can see if there are spare seats available. It's not acceptable and should be reported.

Triangla

ScienceNerd wrote: »

How do you ask the driver if you're not on the bus?

From the OP first post:

Immediately after that, a 46A bus arrived and the driver couldn't be nicer: he picked me up and told me he'll eventually catch up with 145 in front. Which he did! I got off and ran into the other bus to find it still half-empty with room both upstairs and downstairs.

devnull

Recently there has been a habit creeping in of buses running early because of projected delays on-route which I've already told Dublin Bus if I encounter it again I'm going to report it to the NTA.

One day last week I just missed a bus and it was 20 minutes until the next one. I saw a bus go past my stop about 2 minutes before the bus was due to leave the terminus (it was two stops away from the terminus) out of service.

A friend of mine was catching the bus a few stops further up the route and asked me why I was not on that bus since I told her I would meet him on it and I told him it did not run and she told me it was a few minutes earlier than normal.

Imagine my surprise that I said an out of service bus went past, and I asked them for the bus number and it was the very same bus that went past me out of service a few minutes earlier, it went past my stop approx 4 minutes before it would have done if it had ran in service.

The official Dublin Bus explanation was it started the route a few stops up from the terminus for operational reasons and in-fact did not run early from the terminus. After waiting at the stop for 40 minutes, I asked the bus driver what was going on and was told that some services will operate early and out of service for the first few stops because of possible delays.

Now if the bus was extremely late running I would understand it, but the bus that was supposed to be mine, went past my stop several minutes before it was even due.

anothernight

You can complain to them but don't expect a reply. The few times Dublin Bus ever replied to me it was a copy&paste job that didn't address the problem in any way.

A few years ago I had slightly more luck contacting my local councillor, although the fact that he took the same bus as me probably helped too. There was some improvement, but there was always a sense that Dublin Bus were trying their absolute best to either avoid the councillor or outright lie to him to hide their own incompetence.

So yeah, complain if you want, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

dublindiehard

devnull wrote: »

Recently there has been a habit creeping in of buses running early because of projected delays on-route which I've already told Dublin Bus if I encounter it again I'm going to report it to the NTA.

One day last week I just missed a bus and it was 20 minutes until the next one. I saw a bus go past my stop about 2 minutes before the bus was due to leave the terminus (it was two stops away from the terminus) out of service.

A friend of mine was catching the bus a few stops further up the route and asked me why I was not on that bus since I told her I would meet him on it and I told him it did not run and she told me it was a few minutes earlier than normal.

Imagine my surprise that I said an out of service bus went past, and I asked them for the bus number and it was the very same bus that went past me out of service a few minutes earlier, it went past my stop approx 4 minutes before it would have done if it had ran in service.

The official Dublin Bus explanation was it started the route a few stops up from the terminus for operational reasons and in-fact did not run early from the terminus. After waiting at the stop for 40 minutes, I asked the bus driver what was going on and was told that some services will operate early and out of service for the first few stops because of possible delays.

Now if the bus was extremely late running I would understand it, but the bus that was supposed to be mine, went past my stop several minutes before it was even due.

Something similar happened on the 17a yesterday

lil5

devnull wrote: »

Recently there has been a habit creeping in of buses running early because of projected delays on-route which I've already told Dublin Bus if I encounter it again I'm going to report it to the NTA.

One day last week I just missed a bus and it was 20 minutes until the next one. I saw a bus go past my stop about 2 minutes before the bus was due to leave the terminus (it was two stops away from the terminus) out of service.

A friend of mine was catching the bus a few stops further up the route and asked me why I was not on that bus since I told her I would meet him on it and I told him it did not run and she told me it was a few minutes earlier than normal.

Imagine my surprise that I said an out of service bus went past, and I asked them for the bus number and it was the very same bus that went past me out of service a few minutes earlier, it went past my stop approx 4 minutes before it would have done if it had ran in service.

The official Dublin Bus explanation was it started the route a few stops up from the terminus for operational reasons and in-fact did not run early from the terminus. After waiting at the stop for 40 minutes, I asked the bus driver what was going on and was told that some services will operate early and out of service for the first few stops because of possible delays.

Now if the bus was extremely late running I would understand it, but the bus that was supposed to be mine, went past my stop several minutes before it was even due.

Sounds just like a the daily operational mode of the 7 route come 4 o'clock in the afternoon.
The Cherrywood bus might excape the operational cull, but the Loughlinstown buses frequently fly past as 'not in service' or 'entering service'.

strandroad

the groutch wrote: »

It can sometimes be a case of a bus being way behind schedule (as is possible with yesterday's weather), and getting orders to do no pick-ups beyond a certain point to make up the time.

Is this a real policy?
It sounds ridiculous even for "the customer is always last" DB!

lil5

lxflyer wrote: »

...
But it should only happen along sections of the route where there is an alternative service so that people are not left standing.
...

That's the bit DB doesn't take into consideration....

For them the 46A route might be an alternative service to the 145.
Or the 4 route an alternative service to the 7.

Neither is.

GLaDOS

Triangla wrote: »

From the OP first post:

Immediately after that, a 46A bus arrived and the driver couldn't be nicer: he picked me up and told me he'll eventually catch up with 145 in front. Which he did! I got off and ran into the other bus to find it still half-empty with room both upstairs and downstairs.

Sorry, that's fair enough. Generally speaking though, you're not going to get a chance to ask the driver about it.

machiavellianme

lil5 wrote: »

Sounds just like a the daily operational mode of the 7 route come 4 o'clock in the afternoon.
The Cherrywood bus might excape the operational cull, but the Loughlinstown buses frequently fly past as 'not in service' or 'entering service'.

Had this happen yesterday evening around 4pm. What should have been two 4's, a 7 and an 8 drove by with out of service displayed up front. I look in as they drive past to see the buses half full. This was in booterstown so at least I had the option to get the dart to town, whichI eeventually did.

AnonoBoy

If they are operating on a 'no pick ups' policy from a certain point they should turn off the bus number at the front.

If an 'out of service' bus passes me I'm not annoyed, if a bus I'm waiting on does I'm fuming. Especially when I've been standing in the cold and rain waiting for it.

schemingbohemia

Go straight to the NTA, don't bother complaining directly to DB, NTA will send complaint to DB asking for follow up that means it will be answered.

coolbeans

Another reason to break up the dinosaur that is DB. They and a few others have destroyed the good name of unions in this country as people now associate unions with DB and their excuse for a service.

weldoninhio

lxflyer wrote: »

While I can't comment on the case above, other than to say that it sounds completely unacceptable behaviour, there are certainly instances of where a controller will instruct a driver to switch his display to out of service and to operate in set down mode only.

This is only done where a bus is running late and the controller is trying to get both the bus and driver back to where they ought to be and restore the service to normal. Like it or not buses can get delayed for a variety of reasons, and if the controllers didn't do this, they would never get the service back on track for the rest of the day.

But it should only happen along sections of the route where there is an alternative service so that people are not left standing.

Issues can arise where this starts to happen on a recurring basis, and this is generally down to increasing traffic levels meaning that the bus doesn't have sufficient running time to get from one terminus to the other. In this case it generally means that a new schedule needs to be drawn up using more resources, and unfortunately that generally takes time to resolve.

However, a bus passing a stop in service with spare capacity should simply not happen - drivers have CCTV showing them the upper deck so they can see if there are spare seats available. It's not acceptable and should be reported.

How can a bus, in a bus service that done away with timetables years ago, be late??

Tickityboo

MuffinsDa wrote: »

Thanks for advice guys.
I took down his number (And a photo with him in it for good measure).
I am writing to the central customer relations email and also sending a hard copy to Donnybrook Depot Manager, I'll follow it by badgering the depot manager on the phone if he doesn't respond!

You don't need a photo of the driver!!!!!

thomasj

Speaking of 145....

I went up to heuston stop at 13:59 to which both the 145 and 747 pulled out up to the lights. Both my phone and the rtpi sign said 13:59

I went up to them at the lights. Neither would let me on.

Dyr

the groutch wrote: »

It can sometimes be a case of a bus being way behind schedule (as is possible with yesterday's weather), and getting orders to do no pick-ups beyond a certain point to make up the time.

And in that instance would RTPI reflect that the bus is running out of service?

Would it f**k

Cowboys ted

lil5

thomasj wrote: »

Speaking of 145....

I went up to heuston stop at 13:59 to which both the 145 and 747 pulled out up to the lights. Both my phone and the rtpi sign said 13:59

I went up to them at the lights. Neither would let me on.

Must have both left early because of anticipated possible delays along their routes.

Or maybe they saw you running ...

And 13:59 is pretty close to the timetabled 14:00 ...

MuffinsDa

Tickityboo wrote: »

You don't need a photo of the driver!!!!!

Haha - It's just a photo of the bus from outside with the reg number etc - the driver happens to be in it as he is driving it

RobbingBandit

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Union Mafia Bastards.

end of the road

coolbeans wrote: »

Another reason to break up the dinosaur that is DB.

another non reason out of the many non reasons you mean. how would this breaking up work? what would it achieve? specially as short workings would still happen for operational and other reasons whoever ran the service.

thomasj wrote: »

Speaking of 145....

I went up to heuston stop at 13:59 to which both the 145 and 747 pulled out up to the lights. Both my phone and the rtpi sign said 13:59

I went up to them at the lights. Neither would let me on.

are dublin bus drivers allowed to and obligated to let you on at the lights, or do those who do it just take the risk out of good will? if the later then you can't expect to be entitled to be let on at the lights surely?
i agree its annoying though and its nice when a driver lets you on outside the stop but i wouldn't expect that it should happen

RobbingBandit wrote: »

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Union Mafia Bastards.

whats "ja unions" got to do with this?

L1011

thomasj wrote: »

Speaking of 145....

I went up to heuston stop at 13:59 to which both the 145 and 747 pulled out up to the lights. Both my phone and the rtpi sign said 13:59

I went up to them at the lights. Neither would let me on.

Expect to be told everyones clock bar the drivers is wrong if you complain

Jbubs

the groutch wrote: »

It can sometimes be a case of a bus being way behind schedule (as is possible with yesterday's weather), and getting orders to do no pick-ups beyond a certain point to make up the time.

Bus running behind schedule means passengers have been waiting longer so I don't agree that the best solution is to not stop for them, sure then they have to wait on the next one.

I seen this happen before. I was on the 75 and it wasn't stopping at any stops. But eventually it was stopped at the lights and another 75 caught right up. So my 75 obviously wasn't stopping because he knew there was another right behind.

Stheno

I sometimes use the 41x of which there are three leaving UCD for Swords in the evening at 5/5:15 and 5:30

The last three times I have been heading to the bus stop on Leeson Street at five to five to get the five o'clock (about five past five) I've been passed by it on Leeson Street before it's even scheduled to leave UCD. It's maddening.

Kai123

I saw this happen in town awhile ago on O'Connell Street. Two women with shopping were pleading to be let on but the bus driver just ignored them. I tapped on the door but was ignored. Before I could go around to the other side, the bus driver gritted his teeth at me and drove off.

Bus Drivers in Dublin are very peculiar, very militant and most have no interest in the service they provide. I think they take a lot of the friction from politicians as public opinion, so are fairly aggressive towards commuters. Not all of them are like this but its a common theme.

Jbubs

I get the 49 home from work. I work in the ifsc and get the bus from the terminus at pearse Street. Heavily pregnant last summer rushing for my bus as normal, got to the corner only to see the bus leave. Checked the time and the bus had left 5 minutes early. 2 inspectors happen to be nearby and I said it to them. Just said that I wouldn't expect the bus to wait for me however if the driver had just left on time as per the schedule then I would have made it. The were very nice about it in fairness. The 49 leave the terminus early around 50% of the time.

Few weeks ago waiting on 49 and 2 didn't show up, so rang the complaints number from the website while I was at the bus stop. A girl gave some rubbish excuses and said the next 49 was 6 minutes away. Never showed up. Got a phone call from someone from Dublin bus a few days later and they said that the reason for the noshows could have been due to the Ireland euro qualifier football match. He was fairly stumped when I reminded him that the match was in Bosnia.

Skatedude

Or the driver really, really needs a toilet break? and also isnt allowed to stop if he is exceeding his driving hours which is illegal?

people always seem to think the worst.

P0lygon Wind0w

I've tweeted Dublin Bus a good few times about busses not turning up, or long waits at Donnybrook. They reply within a few minutes, which at the very least makes me feel better and I can stop fuming about it.

weldoninhio

P0lygon Wind0w wrote: »

I've tweeted Dublin Bus a good few times about busses not turning up, or long waits at Donnybrook. They reply within a few minutes, which at the very least makes me feel better and I can stop fuming about it.

They reply with the stock email address to forward your complaint to

anothernight

Skatedude wrote: »

Or the driver really, really needs a toilet break? and also isnt allowed to stop if he is exceeding his driving hours which is illegal?

people always seem to think the worst.

They must have very small bladders if that's the case every time it happens. It's not exactly a rare occurrence.

If they are exceeding their driving hours that often, then the whole network is badly planned. Not the drivers' fault, but it would certainly be Dublin Bus' fault.

I must say that with all the trouble I had with my daily bus commute, I found that the majority of the drivers on my route were actually lovely. It's not usually their fault that the service is run so poorly.

Kyleboy

Kai123 wrote: »

I saw this happen in town awhile ago on O'Connell Street. Two women with shopping were pleading to be let on but the bus driver just ignored them. I tapped on the door but was ignored. Before I could go around to the other side, the bus driver gritted his teeth at me and drove off.

Bus Drivers in Dublin are very peculiar, very militant and most have no interest in the service they provide. I think they take a lot of the friction from politicians as public opinion, so are fairly aggressive towards commuters. Not all of them are like this but its a common theme.

Driver's are not allowed to open doors once they have closed the doors and started there manoeuvre away from the bus stop, it can lead to all kinds of problems for the driver if he is seen to do it.

Kai123

Kyleboy wrote: »

Driver's are not allowed to open doors once they have closed the doors and started there manoeuvre away from the bus stop, it can lead to all kinds of problems for the driver if he is seen to do it.

He was stationary for about a minute. The women were trying to get his attention and then others before I tried getting his attention. If for whatever reason something happened before that might justify him not opening the doors, his behavior was pretty bad. It was two Asian women and a old lady with shopping that were left and the bus was not even half full.

end of the road

Kai123 wrote: »

He was stationary for about a minute. The women were trying to get his attention and then others before I tried getting his attention. If for whatever reason something happened before that might justify him not opening the doors, his behavior was pretty bad. It was two Asian women and a old lady with shopping that were left and the bus was not even half full.

was he at or away from the bus stop? if away from the bus stop he is not allowed to let you on.

Kyleboy

Kai123 wrote: »

He was stationary for about a minute. The women were trying to get his attention and then others before I tried getting his attention. If for whatever reason something happened before that might justify him not opening the doors, his behavior was pretty bad. It was two Asian women and a old lady with shopping that were left and the bus was not even half full.

I understand what you are saying buddy but maybe he indicated to move out and was waiting for his opportunity to move out?.That's the way we have been told to operate, i am not saying you aren't right by the way, i am just trying to give a drivers perspective on it.

LXFlyer

Before people start castigating drivers unnecessarily, I think that they need to understand that once a driver closes the doors at a bus stop, he is then focussed on the road and traffic around him, and is under strict instruction not to open the doors again until the next stop.

That's company policy - now some drivers may decide to open the doors, but to start attacking drivers for following company rules that are there for safety (and insurance) reasons is really scraping the barrel a bit.

It may seem harsh - but that is the rule - and those drivers who don't reopen the doors are merely abiding by the company rules.

VG31

I'm interested to know if anyone has seen someone open the doors themselves with the exterior button when a driver would not open them.

lxflyer wrote: »

It may seem harsh - but that is the rule - and those drivers who don't reopen the doors are merely abiding by the company rules.

It's my understanding that if the bus has not pulled out from the stop the driver can reopen the doors.

I know the company policy but I have seen many times where drivers have been deliberately nasty about it. Once for example, an elderly woman was running for the bus (from the front in plain view of the driver) and was almost there and the driver shut the doors and drove off.

monument

RobbingBandit wrote: »

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Union Mafia Bastards.

Infraction for trolling -- please read the charter before posting again.

- moderator

end of the road

VG31 wrote: »

I'm interested to know if anyone has seen someone open the doors themselves with the exterior button when a driver would not open them.

i haven't and i would hope that if they did try the book would be thrown at them

VG31 wrote: »

It's my understanding that if the bus has not pulled out from the stop the driver can reopen the doors.

possibly. however if his eyes are on the road ready to pull out then chances are he won't see someone

VG31 wrote: »

I know the company policy but I have seen many times where drivers have been deliberately nasty about it. Once for example, an elderly woman was running for the bus (from the front in plain view of the driver) and was almost there and the driver shut the doors and drove off.

maybe he didn't see her

VG31

end of the road wrote: »

i haven't and i would hope that if they did try the book would be thrown at them

I highly doubt that considering DB can't even deal with their own drivers' behaviour.

end of the road wrote: »

maybe he didn't see her

Not a chance, he would have to be blind not to see her. There was a slight smirk on his face as well.