Irish Rail 2016 timetable consultation: A DART every 10 minute and more

GM228

GM228 wrote: »

New timetable has been put on hold apparently due to objections to the extended journey times on the Enterprise by the DRDs Andrew Murray.

IE have confirmed they are proceeding with the new timetable, due to commence Jan 31st.

But that's assuming DART driver issues are sorted.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/threat-of-rail-unrest-as-dart-drivers-reject-changed-rosters-1.2475362?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

They are not changing the Enterprise timetable at that time due to Andrew Murrays complaints.

They do however intend to offer an "improved" Enterprise timetable at somestage during Q1 2016.

devnull

Where did you read that the new timetable had been confirmed?

GM228

devnull wrote: »

Where did you read that the new timetable had been confirmed?

They have confirmed on Twitter today via a number of Tweets to various posters confirming Jan 31st and the Enterprise timetable changes are on hold.

https://twitter.com/IrishRail/status/683915254032678912

https://twitter.com/IrishRail/status/683966407680327680

thomasj

devnull wrote:

Where did you read that the new timetable had been confirmed?

+1

Irish rail only tweeted today that feedback was currently being looked at before a draft is sent to the NTA

thomasj

GM228 wrote: »

They have confirmed on Twitter today via a number of Tweets to various posters confirming Jan 31st and the Enterprise timetable changes are on hold.

https://mobile.twitter.com/IrishRail/status/683915254032678912

https://twitter.com/IrishRail/status/683957191708127232?s=09

Read replies as well

GM228

thomasj wrote: »

+1

Irish rail only tweeted today that feedback was currently being looked at before a draft is sent to the NTA

They Tweeted more than that!

They confirmed through several Tweets that Jan 31st is the date for timetable change (still subject to NTA approval).

Examples here.
https://twitter.com/irishrail/status/683077292403376130

https://twitter.com/IrishRail/status/683915254032678912

No changes to Belfast timetable, a friend in IE has also confirmed this and the Belfast timetable will change at a later date - sometime in Q1.

https://twitter.com/IrishRail/status/683964770865786880

thomasj

Sorry I meant they only tweeted as recently as today saying that .

GM228

thomasj wrote: »

Sorry I meant they only tweeted as recently as today saying that .

Tweets confirming the 31st and the deferral of the Belfast timetable were also sent today.

They are basically saying that the timetable is changing on the 31st, but the subject of those changes is not yet confirmed by the NTA, but the Belfast timetable won't be changing.

Found this on the NIR website which also confirms:-

Draft timetable for the Enterprise to be postponed to allow further review


16 December 2015

Translink and Iarnród Éireann has announced today that following discussions last week, the proposed date for the introduction of a new Enterprise Timetable, planned for 31st January 2016, has been postponed.

The companies will work together to review feedback from timetable consultation processes completed in Iarnród Éireann and underway in Translink prior to finalising a new timetable for the Belfast to Dublin service, with a goal of the first quarter of 2016 for completion.

Both companies are committed to delivering an attractive, high quality train service for all Enterprise customers, and last week met to further review the draft timetable proposals and discuss the initial stakeholder and passenger consultation feedback. A programme of work is under way to consider alternative options for the new cross border timetable. A joint Enterprise Management Board will be set up to look at these options and on an ongoing basis review future plans and developments for the service.

The two companies thank everyone who has already taken the time to get in touch regarding the timetable proposals, and Translink invites anyone who has yet to share their views to do so. Those wishing to register their comments can currently do so at www.translink.co.uk/newenterprisetimetable/

Separately, Iarnród Éireann is reviewing feedback from public consultation on other Connolly services, with a view to implementing final schedules on these routes in early 2016, subject to the approval of the National Transport Authority.

thomasj

GM228 wrote: »

Tweets confirming the 31st and the deferral of the Belfast timetable were also sent today.

They are basically saying that the timetable is changing on the 31st, but the subject of those changes is not yet confirmed by the NTA, but the Belfast timetable won't be changing.

Thanks for that. But their tweets are so confusing

https://twitter.com/IrishRail/status/684036050583437312?s=09

GM228

thomasj wrote: »

https://twitter.com/IrishRail/status/684036050583437312?s=09

Western Commuter is the line between Limerick-Galway, that timetable proposal isn't due to be published until later this month.

I'm guessing that is what that Tweet from IE is in reference to?

Bit misleading all their Tweets are, but I guess they are saying Jan 31st is confirmed as change date, but the actual timetable is not yet confirmed.

devnull

I spoke to Irish Rail.

January 31st is not the confirmed date, the final date is yet to be decided, their aim is early 2016.

GM228

devnull wrote: »

I spoke to Irish Rail.

January 31st is not the confirmed date, the final date is yet to be decided, their aim is early 2016.

Out of curiosity who did you speak to?

Their Twitter account says the 31st is the date, and NIRs website stated the 31st was the original timetable date. Their Twitter account is manned by their PR dept so I'd trust that to be accurate.

As of 44m ago Twitter account said new timetable should come into effect late January when someone asked when it comes into effect?

It's all very confusing, I'm sure we will find out soon enough.

sdanseo

What would be wrong with running some extra services Malahide-Bray or Howth-Bray (Malahide seems to be the obvious choice as it's busier) and then have the other spur run as a shuttle service? One 4-car set running Howth Junction to howth on a constant loop would be a service roughly every 30 mins, then add the odd direct service.

At Howth Junction you could have trains arrive on Platform 2 from Howth and pax wouldn't even have to change platform.

I also struggle to see the justification for shorter trains when there are passengers to carry and no need for an additional driver. The cost implications of adding an extra LHB set to an existing 4-car can't be that huge?

Captain Chaos

sdanseo wrote: »

What would be wrong with running some extra services Malahide-Bray or Howth-Bray (Malahide seems to be the obvious choice as it's busier) and then have the other spur run as a shuttle service? One 4-car set running Howth Junction to howth on a constant loop would be a service roughly every 30 mins, then add the odd direct service.

At Howth Junction you could have trains arrive on Platform 2 from Howth and pax wouldn't even have to change platform.

I also struggle to see the justification for shorter trains when there are passengers to carry and no need for an additional driver. The cost implications of adding an extra LHB set to an existing 4-car can't be that huge?

The problem is the massive lack of turn back capacity at Malahide. The Howth branch is handy to "hide" a few sets off the main line. Sending all services to Malahide while keeping one 4 car shuttle on the branch sounds great in theory but itblocks up the whole northern line in doing so.

sdanseo

Captain Chaos wrote: »

The problem is the massive lack of turn back capacity at Malahide. The Howth branch is handy to "hide" a few sets off the main line. Sending all services to Malahide while keeping one 4 car shuttle on the branch sounds great in theory but itblocks up the whole northern line in doing so.

I can see the problem but also solutions. The station at Clongriffin would need reasonably little work to become a viable passing point where Enterprise / Northern Line commuter services could overtake DART paths.

Of course, the DART should eventually end up going to Balbriggan or even Drogheda, and then the Enterprise and Dundalk services will be held up :rolleyes:

Captain Chaos

Clongriffin already is used as a passing loop on the down line. The mistake there was not installing the up line loop when is was built as it's needed now.

Extending the DART beyond Malahide is going to be a disaster all round unless all or most stations get passing loops installed as 4 tracking is not an option.

thomasj

Irish rail have now updated the existing timetable beyond the 31st January, in fact it seems to continue upto September now.

Itll probably be updated again once they have a definite date

Infini

thomasj wrote: »

Irish rail have now updated the existing timetable beyond the 31st January, in fact it seems to continue upto September now.

Itll probably be updated again once they have a definite date

I would most likely say that there will be no 10min timetable at least until the works at Grand Canal Dock are completed. Considering how limited capacity is in the pearse area for mainline trains turning around thats the most reasonable time they could expect anything. At the very least it'll also give more time to resolve problems with rosters with the drivers as well.

GM228 wrote: »

Out of curiosity who did you speak to?

Their Twitter account says the 31st is the date, and NIRs website stated the 31st was the original timetable date. Their Twitter account is manned by their PR dept so I'd trust that to be accurate.

As of 44m ago Twitter account said new timetable should come into effect late January when someone asked when it comes into effect?

It's all very confusing, I'm sure we will find out soon enough.

Will probably be a while tbh. From what I've enquired as well theres currently issues with CTC not even knowing whats happening atm, theres no working timetables out either (not the publin ones but the internal ones with train codes and where they're meant to be and where they go etc), issues with where trains are gonna be stored (lack of capacity in pearse an example) as well as the obvious lack of agreement with drivers. Even the earliest that this could possibly might be tried to be implemented is March, and it could be later as I doubt the last thing the company want is to provoke the drivers before the 1916 commemorations.

thomasj

So timetable deferred until April 10th.

And enhanced services being planned for St Patrick's and Easter weekend

http://m.rte.ie/news/2016/0121/761839-dart-frequency-talks/

eigrod

Ingrid Miley ‏@ingridmileyRTE · 18m18 minutes ago

Threat of #DART industrial action recedes for time being as @IrishRail defers introduction of 10 min frequency from 31 Jan to 10 April

thomasj

http://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2016/0302/772133-dart-drivers/

Infini

eigrod wrote: »

Ingrid Miley ‏@ingridmileyRTE · 18m18 minutes ago

Threat of #DART industrial action recedes for time being as @IrishRail defers introduction of 10 min frequency from 31 Jan to 10 April

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0330/778247-dart-irish-rail/

Deferred indefinately. Company's trying to put all the blame on the unions regardless of the fact that there wasnt enough drivers ready or enough stock ready even.

devnull

Unions are trying to place the blame on the company for not enough staff to mask their pay claim more like.

Infini

devnull wrote: »

Unions are trying to place the blame on the company for not enough staff to mask their pay claim more like.

It was already been said that the plan was unworkable even BEFORE pay came into it.

Peppa Pig

Infini2 wrote: »

It was already been said that the plan was unworkable even BEFORE pay came into it.

Got a link?
All I can see is it becomes magically workable if drivers get a productivity and pay rise
Link

kingshankly

Besides all the rhetorical bull**** from both sides was there a need for 10 minute darts
Can only imagine merrion road crossing with extra darts would the barriers ever be up

Infini

Peppa Pig wrote: »

Got a link?
All I can see is it becomes magically workable if drivers get a productivity and pay rise
Link

The original opposition was over workabiltity issues expecially driver staff levels and actual trains available. It only expanded over the last few months to include the pay (expecially money that had been agreed to be paid but was later reneiged on from towards 2016) as well as an argument against simply implimenting it as it was.

I'm not against 10min services myself but not if its gonna be at the expence of both the quality of the service or reliability. The 5 level crossings between lansdowne and merrion for example will be going up and down so much (every 2 to 3min) it can lead to increased chances of accidents not to mention equipment failure. The Nothern section between connolly and howth jct is also gonna get hammered with traffic. The existing plan would have all available stock and drivers out with no redundancy incase of a driver noshow or train failure from what Ive heard.

Really its easy to simply say just about pay but its more than just pay herr.

Captain Chaos

kingshankly wrote: »

Besides all the rhetorical bull**** from both sides was there a need for 10 minute darts
Can only imagine merrion road crossing with extra darts would the barriers ever be up

At peak times yes there is, and make them all 8 car sets while they are at it. At 5pm at Connolly there is a 20min DART gap going northbound becuase of Maynooth and Drogheda and Enterprise trains all need a path out of Connolly. The next DART along does tend to be a 4 or 6 car sets and it's just crazy with people fainting on them all the time.

GM228

Peppa Pig wrote: »

Got a link?
All I can see is it becomes magically workable if drivers get a productivity and pay rise
Link

Infini2 wrote: »

The original opposition was over workabiltity issues expecially driver staff levels and actual trains available. It only expanded over the last few months to include the pay (expecially money that had been agreed to be paid but was later reneiged on from towards 2016) as well as an argument against simply implimenting it as it was.

This was the original opposition reasons given as per the NBRU statement:-

NBRU PRESS RELEASE

NBRU Reject Roster Proposals for January 10 Minute Dart Timetable

General Secretary Dermot O’Leary said:

“by issuing unworkable rosters the Company is setting its face against the long standing principle of not acting unilaterally whilst in a process recommended by the states foremost industrial relations institution, the Labour Court, which said that both the Company and the Unions should enter a process of negotiation on productivity, what is ironic here is the fact that it was the Company which advanced the notion of a 10 minute Dart Service as a productivity measure in the first instance”

Mr O’Leary went on to say:
“we have previously advised the Company that it was being presumptuous by announcing that a 10 minute Dart service would commence in January 2016 without advance consultation, it would now appear that Irish Rail have decided to embark on a collision course with drivers which will only serve to heighten tensions and runs the risk of reigniting the recent conflict which led to industrial action and trains not running for a number of hours”

https://twitter.com/NBRU_DUBLIN/status/679438904911503360

http://nbru.ie/union/?p=1528

GM228

Infini2 wrote: »

Company's trying to put all the blame on the unions regardless of the fact that there wasnt enough drivers ready or enough stock ready even.

The NBRU side of the arguement.

https://twitter.com/NBRU_DUBLIN/status/715183107826196480

Bar what is on media I haven't found an official response press release from IE to post for comparison, I personally to be sceptical of what the media posts (from both sides of the arguement), I would rather read official comments/press releases.