New Aldi Planning in Dunshaughlin

vapor trails

Surely this time it will get the go ahead. Super Value needs competition. They've had a near 30 year monopoly at this stage. As usual they'll have all the local lobbying groups wrapped around their finger working hard to object on their behalf.


http://www.eplanning.ie/MeathCC/AppFileRefDetails/RA151231/0

Maysa07

I vaguely remember a few years ago a plan to build a super market down the other end of the village and sure enough Supervalue and other groups put an objection agents this.

This time i think it will go ahead, it has to..

bladespin

Some choice is desperately needed, the village is loosing out massively to Ashbourne and Blanch IMO.

NufcNavan

That Supervalu is a bit of a dump. Badly needs competition.

vapor trails

bladespin wrote: »

Some choice is desperately needed, the village is loosing out massively to Ashbourne and Blanch IMO.

It's even creating an imbalance in the village itself. All the commercial life seems to be stuck down the Tara News to Super Value channel. It's causing traffic management issues on the junction in front of the old courthouse. The main street itself has to be hovering around the 40% occupancy rate which doesn't look good for anyone passing through.

I'll be really pissed off if this gets rejected yet again.

Galego

Any idea where it is planning to be? Application says Lahore road but can't figure out exactly where.

Edit: found it now!

andreac

Really really hope this goes through. It is def badly needed in the village.

CUCINA

Heartily agree with all of the above...choice of supermarket in Dunshaughlin is much more important than the choice of about six hair shops that we have!

CUCINA

Just wondering, any news on this front, good or bad?

tara83

CUCINA wrote: »

Just wondering, any news on this front, good or bad?

I think the decision is due on the 19th

Galego

tara83 wrote: »

I think the decision is due on the 19th

Surely they already know the decision. ðŸ˜

andreac

Anyone hear anymore on this? I had a look at the application in the link there, and it now says More information requested. Wonder what that means?

Galego

andreac wrote: »

Anyone hear anymore on this? I had a look at the application in the link there, and it now says More information requested. Wonder what that means?

They received 4 formal objections to the planning application. One being made by a planning consultancy company based in Dublin 2. I wont say who I think this one has been paid by because everyone should be able to figure it out.

The 4 objections can be read in the above link posted.

Aldi has now been requested further information in regards to the issues raised by the objections...... I assume.

Coat22

Surely you wouldn't want one of these monstrosities in the middle of the village? Clonee was runined by the decision to allow both Aldi & Lidl put their plastic blocks in the middle of the village - hopefully the same won't happen Dunhsuaghlin.

Stick it out of town

Coat22

Surely you wouldn't want one of these monstrosities in the middle of the village? Clonee was runined by the decision to allow both Aldi & Lidl put their plastic blocks in the middle of the village - hopefully the same won't happen Dunhsuaghlin.

Stick it out of town

ongarboy

Coat22 wrote: »

Surely you wouldn't want one of these monstrosities in the middle of the village? Clonee was runined by the decision to allow both Aldi & Lidl put their plastic blocks in the middle of the village - hopefully the same won't happen Dunhsuaghlin.

Stick it out of town

Can you elaborate and quantify on how Clonee was "ruined" please?

Galego

Coat22 wrote: »

Surely you wouldn't want one of these monstrosities in the middle of the village? Clonee was runined by the decision to allow both Aldi & Lidl put their plastic blocks in the middle of the village - hopefully the same won't happen Dunhsuaghlin.

Stick it out of town

Please remind me this.....where is SuperValu? Or Madden's? Or Lawless hardware?

Coat22

ongarboy wrote: »

Can you elaborate and quantify on how Clonee was "ruined" please?

Ok....

A long time ago (well before c. 1995) Clonee was a small village in Co. Meath, part of the parish of Dunboyne and Kilbride. It had a post office, a smll shop (the Bus shop it was called), 4 great pubs and one of the country's best pitch and putt clubs along with 2 garages and numerous stud farms. My own father hailed from there.

Then the owners of Littlepace stud sold vast swathes of it to developers, who were magically allowed develop the green belt between Clonee and Mulhuddart into a massive housing estate. At this point all was not lost, Clonee was relatively unscathed as the development was on the Dublin side of the village.

Soon after though the bus shop, and several of the houses opposite the Grass Hopper were acquired, knocked down and replaced by building twice the size which were completely out of character with those surrounfing them. Once this had been done on one side of the road then the other became fair game and several more houses were acquired, demolished and replaced by 3 story apartment blocks and more retail units. There being no need for so many retail units, these quickly became take aways and bookies shops.

Then Lidl was amazingly given planning permission for a "supermarket" bang smack at the entrance to the village from the northern side, completely dominating the skyscape in the village and attracting huge volumes of traffic, At the same time 2 of the pubs (including the Mill House, one of the finest pubs in the locality) were allowed be closed down to move the licence elsewhere and redevelop the land for more housing. An Apartment block was built on a postage stamp beside the tennis club in which the apartments were actually too small to be sold as such.

Then to top it all off Aldi were given PP to erect another monstrosity at the southern end of the village to draw in more traffic from Littlepace. Onrgar stud and Summerseat studs were sold for more housing and the entire place became a maze of poorly planned housing and a perfectly good village was ruined.

You may like Clonee now. Sure it has an Aldi, a Lidl a couple of Indian take aways and a Ladbrokes - what more could a man want. But actually a great little village once stood there (no more than 20 years ago) and was cast aside to allow over spill from Dublin rather than addressing the issue in the capital itself.

That's how it was "ruined"

Coat22

Galego wrote: »

Please remind me this.....where is SuperValu? Or Madden's? Or Lawless hardware?

You really compare a faceless Lidl or Aldi to any of these?

All you really want is cheap groceries, you don't really care about what it does to the town itself

bladespin

Coat22 wrote: »

You may like Clonee now. Sure it has an Aldi, a Lidl a couple of Indian take aways and a Ladbrokes - what more could a man want. But actually a great little village once stood there (no more than 20 years ago) and was cast aside to allow over spill from Dublin rather than addressing the issue in the capital itself.

That's how it was "ruined"

That's pretty much what the county development plan was tbh.

The same can be said of just about every other town/village in Meath (of all sizes).

Coat22

bladespin wrote: »

That's pretty much what the county development plan was tbh.

The same can be said of just about every other town/village in Meath (of all sizes).

Not necessarily - Dunboyne has doubled or trebled in size in the same time but the village remains (for the most part) still a village (with the notable exception of the Eurospar building which somehow got planning permission). Summerhill likewise.

Ratoath has changed hugely but the "centre" of the village is still the same as it was, the pubs remain, the shops remain etc.

What happened in Clonee was one of the disgraces of the Celtic Tiger. Meath Co. Council seemed to abandon all sense of responsibility for the place and left it to developers.

bladespin

Anywhere with a booming population will need shops to satisfy demand. Dunboyne has changed massively from what I remember too.

Coat22

bladespin wrote: »

Anywhere with a booming population will need shops to satisfy demand. Dunboyne has changed massively from what I remember too.

Agreed but these "discount" supermarket buildings are a "one size fits all" approach which look absolutely terrible when lumped in the middle of a village.

By all means let them build, but stick them out of town.

Dunboyne village is has not changed much in 30 years or so, Yourells small shop being replaced by the Eurospar monstrosity ebing the exception.
There has been huge development on the outskirts of the village but the centre itself if much the same as it always was thankfully.

bladespin

Coat22 wrote: »

Agreed but these "discount" supermarket buildings are a "one size fits all" approach which look absolutely terrible when lumped in the middle of a village.

By all means let them build, but stick them out of town.

Dunboyne village is has not changed much in 30 years or so, Yourells small shop being replaced by the Eurospar monstrosity ebing the exception.
There has been huge development on the outskirts of the village but the centre itself if much the same as it always was thankfully.

Sticking them out of town isn't really much good to someone 'in town' but yes I get your point.

As for Dunboyne,I guess you're talking about the little area around the green and not from the business park beside the M3 to the schools, as the rest of the village has changed drastically, even then, the bank and garage have changed a lot over the years, there is a point at which progress has to be acceptable.

Galego

Coat22 wrote: »

You really compare a faceless Lidl or Aldi to any of these?

All you really want is cheap groceries, you don't really care about what it does to the town itself

I actually don't shop that often in either of them but the main street is pretty much dead at the moment so any news about a supermarket (or any medium size business) opening is welcome in my eyes. It can only be positive and the rest of the shops in the main Street would benefit from it which may mean few others opening up too.

Also, Dunshaughlin is far from being a village with almost 4-5,000 living in it. Like it or not, it is a commuter town. Myself, I do come from village though. 120 habitants.

ongarite

Coat22 wrote: »

Ok....

A long time ago (well before c. 1995) Clonee was a small village in Co. Meath, part of the parish of Dunboyne and Kilbride. It had a post office, a smll shop (the Bus shop it was called), 4 great pubs and one of the country's best pitch and putt clubs along with 2 garages and numerous stud farms. My own father hailed from there.

Then the owners of Littlepace stud sold vast swathes of it to developers, who were magically allowed develop the green belt between Clonee and Mulhuddart into a massive housing estate. At this point all was not lost, Clonee was relatively unscathed as the development was on the Dublin side of the village.

Soon after though the bus shop, and several of the houses opposite the Grass Hopper were acquired, knocked down and replaced by building twice the size which were completely out of character with those surrounfing them. Once this had been done on one side of the road then the other became fair game and several more houses were acquired, demolished and replaced by 3 story apartment blocks and more retail units. There being no need for so many retail units, these quickly became take aways and bookies shops.

Then Lidl was amazingly given planning permission for a "supermarket" bang smack at the entrance to the village from the northern side, completely dominating the skyscape in the village and attracting huge volumes of traffic, At the same time 2 of the pubs (including the Mill House, one of the finest pubs in the locality) were allowed be closed down to move the licence elsewhere and redevelop the land for more housing. An Apartment block was built on a postage stamp beside the tennis club in which the apartments were actually too small to be sold as such.

Then to top it all off Aldi were given PP to erect another monstrosity at the southern end of the village to draw in more traffic from Littlepace. Onrgar stud and Summerseat studs were sold for more housing and the entire place became a maze of poorly planned housing and a perfectly good village was ruined.

You may like Clonee now. Sure it has an Aldi, a Lidl a couple of Indian take aways and a Ladbrokes - what more could a man want. But actually a great little village once stood there (no more than 20 years ago) and was cast aside to allow over spill from Dublin rather than addressing the issue in the capital itself.

That's how it was "ruined"

Thats a fair rose tinted version of events about the state of Clonee.
Its a village that the boom of the 2000s completely overlooked & then feel into a hole when the recession kicked in.
The pubs closed for the same reason as many rural pubs in villages across Ireland.
If it wasn't for Lidl and Aldi in Clonee right now & the creche to go with it, the place would be an absolute ghost town & even more of a visual eye sore.

maik3n

Bamburys Bookmakers have now closed up shop too, so the main street still has quite a few empty units.

Also, I wouldn't really consider the proposed location of the aldi store as in the MIDDLE of the village.
Well, unless Maddens plan on providing some pedestrian access from their end?

While Supervalu have always been very good from a community standpoint, hosting the Harvest Festival, sponsoring events, sports clubs and the like, a suitable competitor would be a great addition to the village IMHO.

Coat22

ongarite wrote: »

Thats a fair rose tinted version of events about the state of Clonee.
Its a village that the boom of the 2000s completely overlooked & then feel into a hole when the recession kicked in.
The pubs closed for the same reason as many rural pubs in villages across Ireland.
If it wasn't for Lidl and Aldi in Clonee right now & the creche to go with it, the place would be an absolute ghost town & even more of a visual eye sore.

So you admit yourself its a visual eyesore.
It maybe rose tinted but its the actual facts of what happened in Clonee.
There's non way you can compare the pubs closing in Clonee with pubs closing in some village in the west with 25 pubs. They were closed to redevelop the sites as housing (in the case of the Mill House but the recession killed that plan) and move the licences elsewhere.

CUCINA

Seems to be two threads in one here now, but getting back to the original...decision time soon on whether Aldi gets permission to go ahead with the unit in Dunshaughlin. Here's hoping that they do. But I suspect that one or two decision-makers might have the same mindset as one or two influential objectors.
Has anyone heard anything through the grapevine?

vapor trails

If you go the the link I put up in the opening post and click on the View Scanned documents you can see they have now submitted detail drawings of where exactly the Unit will be located along with all the park etc. The drawings show that unit will not be an eye sore from the main street. In fact if you are standing outside the nearby Lawlesses yard and looking up and down the street chances are you wont see it. Also the department of arts heritage and gaeltact has come back green lighting the application on the basis of it posing no threat to wildlife in the area.

tara83

vapor trails wrote: »

If you go the the link I put up in the opening post and click on the View Scanned documents you can see they have now submitted detail drawings of where exactly the Unit will be located along with all the park etc. The drawings show that unit will not be an eye sore from the main street. In fact if you are standing outside the nearby Lawlesses yard and looking up and down the street chances are you wont see it. Also the department of arts heritage and gaeltact has come back green lighting the application on the basis of it posing no threat to wildlife in the area.

Hope it goes ahead. However I see it creating a parking issue for the commuters who currently park along the road there.

CUCINA

vapor trails wrote: »

If you go the the link I put up in the opening post and click on the View Scanned documents you can see they have now submitted detail drawings of where exactly the Unit will be located along with all the park etc. The drawings show that unit will not be an eye sore from the main street. In fact if you are standing outside the nearby Lawlesses yard and looking up and down the street chances are you wont see it. Also the department of arts heritage and gaeltact has come back green lighting the application on the basis of it posing no threat to wildlife in the area.

Thank you, Vapor Trails, for that interesting up-date...allowing myself to be a bit more optimistic that it might actually get the go-ahead.
If the plan is rejected, though, I think I would be disappointed to the extent that it would make me consider picketing outside the main entrance to Supervalue!
Well, OK, not quite, but I would definitely be inclined to make some form of visible protest. Anyway, fingers crossed...

Galego

CUCINA wrote: »

Thank you, Vapor Trails, for that interesting up-date...allowing myself to be a bit more optimistic that it might actually get the go-ahead.
If the plan is rejected, though, I think I would be disappointed to the extent that it would make me consider picketing outside the main entrance to Supervalue!
Well, OK, not quite, but I would definitely be inclined to make some form of visible protest. Anyway, fingers crossed...

I heard that Maddens put an objections. I actually think Supervalu didnt but I could be wrong on that one.

Anyway fingers crossed it gets the go-ahead.

vapor trails

If Maddens have elected to object I think they are mistaking. Never mind objecting If were Maddens I would try and merge the two car parks together and turn it into a mini centre for all needs. 95% of the time they will be offering different products and it could be an easy one stop for all items for Dunshaughlin consumers.

Some people just resort to object mode as if its a pre disposed human disposition rather than fully assess the merits and potential of each and every scenario.

maik3n

It seems strange that Maddens would object, since they are named on the original application (see Application-Application Form1-454 Kb) to Meath CoCo and even gave a written letter of consent.
Do they not own that land anyways, so why would they object after the fact?

Galego

maik3n wrote: »

It seems strange that Maddens would object, since they are named on the original application (see Application-Application Form1-454 Kb) to Meath CoCo and even gave a written letter of consent.
Do they not own that land anyways, so why would they object after the fact?

I heard it from one of the locals in Lawless. Maybe he got it wrong and meant to say SuperValu which would make more sense to the case.

A question for everyone. When it says further information requested......what could this be?

vapor trails

Just a couple of other bits of information. There is a 7 page objection made by a firm called MacCabe Durney Barnes on behalf of clients called Express Check out Dunshaughlin. The details on who Expres Check Out Dunshaughlin are can be found here:

http://www.solocheck.ie/Irish-Company/Express-Check-Out-Dunshaughlin-178132

Anyway here is a summary of the Objection document:

Page 1/2: Deals with Environment Impact statements: Objectors are of belief that the size of the proposed development (2 Hectares) requires a Environment impact statement which I dont think was included in the initial planning by Aldi. Also they mention the original zoning of B1 for the area as having a vision including a "Vibrant Mix of uses in the town centre to give a sense of community and identity. The objectors think that allowing one trading entity take up the entire development its not catering for a "Vibrant Mix"

Page 2/3: Cover the Urban Framework plan. Essential the UFP says any new building should have 1. Scale relative to the town. 2. Must have good architecture (I'd have thought this would be very subjective) in the submission they describe proposed Aldi as generic box design 3. Appropriate open space 4. Appropriate mix of uses...Objectors argue that proposed Aldi would have none of the above.

Page 3/4: Tackles the retail strategy for Meath County Council which was compiled by John Spain and associates. In the report they said Dunshaughlin needs another 3,500sqm of convenience store space. IE another shopping along the lines of a Aldi / Lidl etc. In the objectors submission they argue that the report is not accurate and that the submission by Mr Spain should have included Ashbourne and Ratoath under the same catchment....In simple terms there is a heap of shops in Ashbourne and we don't need anymore in Dunshaughlin.

Page 5: I find this one interesting and I learned something new myself. Supermarkets in their planning application have to give an estimated turnover per square meter. Aldi in their submission forecast them as having €8,000 of turnover per square meter. To copy the objectors document word for word "This is at odds with the assumption of €11,000 per square meter provided for in the County Meath Retail strategy. There is no justification for a lower turnover ratio on the basis that it is a discount store as the retail planning guides no longer recognises any difference between conventional retailing and discount retailing"...... If i'm reading this correctly is this a straight out admittance that Aldi are better than Super Valu on price ?

The also say that the 2% population growth in Dunshaughlin predicted by Aldi is wide of the mark.

Page 6/7: Parking / traffic management. They point out the fact that people currently park uncontrolled along the wall beside the proposed development already shows the area is struggling. The say the Aldi unit should provide 114 parking spaces given its size. The planning application only proposes 83. Also they say no road safety audit has been conducted.

Galego

So it was SuperValu who objected after all as many here have already expected coming.

Regarding the 2% growth in population........ Would that not be the new houses being and to be built?

Maysa07

Galego wrote: »

So it was SuperValu who objected after all as many here have already expected coming.

Regarding the 2% growth in population........ Would that not be the new houses being and to be built?

I think it will still go ahead. I am no expert in this area but it seems most of there objection are fairly petty.

Was just going to ask if anyone uses either Aldi or Lidil in Clonee over Supervalue in Dunshauglin?

Wouldn't agree that they've ruined Clonee as they are at opposite ends of the village, and the car dealership beside Lidil is more of an eyesore.
The Supervalue in Dunshaughlin is also a bit of an eyesore.

Galego

DubInMeath wrote: »

Was just going to ask if anyone uses either Aldi or Lidil in Clonee over Supervalue in Dunshauglin?

Wouldn't agree that they've ruined Clonee as they are at opposite ends of the village, and the car dealership beside Lidil is more of an eyesore.
The Supervalue in Dunshaughlin is also a bit of an eyesore.

I have to admit I don't use them much and most of my shopping is done in SuperValu Dunshaughlin. I also don't intend to radically change my shopping habbits once Aldi is open. Still I welcome ANY new business to the Village and will give it a go. Aldi does stuff which I like which SuperValu doesn't have so why not they could both do well in Dunshaughlin!?

CUCINA

I would agree with above. I would view Aldi Dunshaughlin as a concurrent alternative to Supervalue, not as a replacement. And Vapor Trails suggestion that Maddens should integrate their car-park with Aldi's would also seem to be the way to go.
The proposed location for Aldi would also definitely act as something of a counter-balance to offset the domination of commercial premises on the west side of the town. Makes it a handy stroll for residents west side, like Maelduin, Coldrick's Pass, and now Kellets Grove, and other near-by estates.
Let's hope we have a victory for local democracy rather than for local petty self-interest!

maik3n

Super Valu are getting some work done now themselves.

Decision has been made and given a green light.
http://www.eplanning.ie/MeathCC/AppFileRefDetails/RA151310/0

Perhaps this might have some bearing on the Aldi decision

In other news, we might be getting an applegreen store/service station.
http://www.eplanning.ie/MeathCC/AppFileRefDetails/RA160148/0

Galego

Why is there not a deadline now in the Aldi appliaction?

Can this be open for ever? :-)

CUCINA

Apparently, the deadline for the Aldi decision is 17th July, so it could be a long wait.

A bit galling in the circumstances to see the Supervalue application done and dusted, but maybe we should keep our powder dry...

Maysa07

Great News!

Galego

maik3n wrote: »

Super Valu are getting some work done now themselves.

Decision has been made and given a green light.
http://www.eplanning.ie/MeathCC/AppFileRefDetails/RA151310/0

Perhaps this might have some bearing on the Aldi decision

In other news, we might be getting an applegreen store/service station.
http://www.eplanning.ie/MeathCC/AppFileRefDetails/RA160148/0

The apple green looks like some serious service station!!! 1400sq Meters, ground and first floor with shop area, 4 restaurants/ coffees (one drive in), pinic area, loads or parking, etc......

Galego

It seems like Apple green application has been granted planning under conditional. Description decision:

"the development will consist of an Off-line Motorway Service Area (MSA) comprising the creation of a new vehicular entrance to the site from the R125; provision of a 4 no. pump island car/van forecourt with canopy over (maximum height of c.5.8m) and a 1 no. pump island HGV forecourt with canopy over (maximum height of c.6.3m) together with underground fuel storage tanks and ancillary pipe works; an amenity building (1,400sqm total gross floor area) with mezzanine level (maximum height of building c.8.4m) and including a convenience store with off-licence (total 100sqm net sales area), 4 no. food offer cafes/restaurants (including 1 no. restaurant with drive thru facility) with communal seating area; w.c. facilities; ancillary food preparation, storage, management office areas; external picnic and play areas; parking for 158 no. cars, 14 no. HGV's, 7 no. coaches; 3 no. illuminated totem signs (two of which are c.14m and one c.20m in height); signage on the services building and canopy (illuminated and non-illuminated); raising of the central portion of the site by approximately 0.75 to 1.5m and grading to existing site levels; culverting of approximately 184m of a tributary of the Skane River; and all other ancillary site development, landscaping, lighting and boundary works."


Any news about Aldi?

Galego

Status now under PUBLICATION REQUIRED after Aldi has submitted the further information!

They are almost there!!!

CUCINA

Seems to be going in the right direction...but what does "PUBLICATION REQUIRED" mean?
Anyway, as before, fingers crossed.

Dubh Geannain

I'm going to hazard a guess that when planning is eventually granted it will be appealed to An Bord Pleanala. Similar to Aldi in Trim. Just a guess mind.