More landlords to sell up over taxes and cost of letting property

borderlinemeath

gaius c wrote: »

Obviously I don't expect you to read every post on this thread but I posted examples of ex-rentals being sold to PPR's and the occupancy actually increased as a result of the transaction.

This completely unproven and very emotive notion that occupancy ALWAYS decreases when going from BTL to PPR is exactly the sort of landlord-friendly spin that I am objecting to. It's a very obvious attempt to frighten people into making decisions that will end up benefiting landlords financially.

Spin? You do realise that you're trying to say occupancy could be increasing, when it's clear for all to see that there's nowhere for people to live? Even if occupancy increases in some pprs the fact of the matter is that more units need to be built to house people, be they RA recipients, homeless, immigrants, growing families, OAPs or whatever.

Only last month the head of paypal has to ask that staff let rooms out to new recruits. If that isn't telling that the housing crisis is reality rather than spin than what is?

"Ms Phelan said the situation has reached a crisis point and could impact foreign direct investment."
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/paypal-asks-staff-to-rent-room-to-new-colleagues-1.2375899

And finally, I fail to understand how a discussion such as this is an "obvious attempt to frighten people into making decisions that will benefit landlords financially" What decisions would that be? If somebody is looking for accommodation they already know how bloody difficult it is, and if they are stupid enough to make ANY financial decision based on an internet forum discussion then they deserve it.

kceire

kceire wrote: »

the regulations with bedsits etc been tightened up, and rightly so.

I never got the problem with bedsits (once they are kept well and maintained). It's no different to a house share really, particularly houseshares in big houses with 7 or 8 rooms. People in houseshares have a private room and often tend to stay in it bar cooking and using the bathroom. Not too much different to a bedsit bar you often had your own cooking facilities in a bedsit but shared a bathroom.

Gumbo

Magnolia Enough Typographer wrote: »

I never got the problem with bedsits (once they are kept well and maintained). It's no different to a house share really, particularly houseshares in big houses with 7 or 8 rooms. People in houseshares have a private room and often tend to stay in it bar cooking and using the bathroom. Not too much different to a bedsit bar you often had your own cooking facilities in a bedsit but shared a bathroom.

The good ones, I agree. But I'm involved in the inspection and prosecution of some of the bad ones, from an environmental health point of view, Building Regulation point of view and from a Fire Safety point of view. The ones we have been in, I wouldn't let a dog sleep in them tbh.

gaius c

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Spin? You do realise that you're trying to say occupancy could be increasing, when it's clear for all to see that there's nowhere for people to live? Even if occupancy increases in some pprs the fact of the matter is that more units need to be built to house people, be they RA recipients, homeless, immigrants, growing families, OAPs or whatever.

Only last month the head of paypal has to ask that staff let rooms out to new recruits. If that isn't telling that the housing crisis is reality rather than spin than what is?

"Ms Phelan said the situation has reached a crisis point and could impact foreign direct investment."
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/paypal-asks-staff-to-rent-room-to-new-colleagues-1.2375899

And finally, I fail to understand how a discussion such as this is an "obvious attempt to frighten people into making decisions that will benefit landlords financially" What decisions would that be? If somebody is looking for accommodation they already know how bloody difficult it is, and if they are stupid enough to make ANY financial decision based on an internet forum discussion then they deserve it.

For example, some of the numerous "give me full tax relief on mortgage interest or I'm selling my property and making the market worse" posts on this thread and the sister thread.

khamilto

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Spin? You do realise that you're trying to say occupancy could be increasing, when it's clear for all to see that there's nowhere for people to live? Even if occupancy increases in some pprs the fact of the matter is that more units need to be built to house people, be they RA recipients, homeless, immigrants, growing families, OAPs or whatever.

Only last month the head of paypal has to ask that staff let rooms out to new recruits. If that isn't telling that the housing crisis is reality rather than spin than what is?

"Ms Phelan said the situation has reached a crisis point and could impact foreign direct investment."
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/paypal-asks-staff-to-rent-room-to-new-colleagues-1.2375899

And finally, I fail to understand how a discussion such as this is an "obvious attempt to frighten people into making decisions that will benefit landlords financially" What decisions would that be? If somebody is looking for accommodation they already know how bloody difficult it is, and if they are stupid enough to make ANY financial decision based on an internet forum discussion then they deserve it.

You seem confused, so I'll try to help.

Numerous times on thread people have stated that landlords getting out of the market must be stopped at all costs. Other said that one less rental unit = one more PPR mortgage unit. The rebuttal was that more people would be in a BTL than a PPR. Gaius was referring to that.

Further, occupancy rate is tangental to the housing crisis, as is (lack of or otherwise) landlords.

The question then is, why are you posting in this thread and not a thread about... I don't know, the lack of strategic plans for new village hubs outside the m50 connected to the city centre via high speed transport?

athtrasna

Play nicely please folks!

borderlinemeath

khamilto wrote: »

You seem confused, so I'll try to help.

No, you're not helping. Merely being patronising again.

Numerous times on thread people have stated that landlords getting out of the market must be stopped at all costs. Other said that one less rental unit = one more PPR mortgage unit. The rebuttal was that more people would be in a BTL than a PPR. Gaius was referring to that.

At all costs? No. Some posters have suggested that some of the charges levied at landlords should be reversed, only one poster has suggested that the entire mortgage should be deductible.

Further, occupancy rate is tangental to the housing crisis, as is (lack of or otherwise) landlords.

If occupancy rates were increasing with sales then why is there a crisis? Why is Alan Kelly pressing ahead with these measures? Why are people finding it so hard to find somewhere to rent? Because there's a lack of units, either existing units or new building supply coming on stream.

The question then is, why are you posting in this thread and not a thread about... I don't know, the lack of strategic plans for new village hubs outside the m50 connected to the city centre via high speed transport?

I can post in whatever thread I want unless a moderator tells me not to.

khamilto

borderlinemeath wrote: »

No, you're not helping. Merely being patronising again.

Again, I can't help if you feel patronised due to the quality of your posts.

At all costs? No. Some posters have suggested that some of the charges levied at landlords should be reversed, only one poster has suggested that the entire mortgage should be deductible.

I have a feeling I can't explain what an idiom is and that it doesn't literally mean at all costs without being patronising, so I will refrain from doing so.

If occupancy rates were increasing with sales then why is there a crisis? Why is Alan Kelly pressing ahead with these measures? Why are people finding it so hard to find somewhere to rent?

UCD did a study several years ago that found Dublin needed ~12,000 new housing units per year just to allow for natural population growth.

Ireland had 3% employment growth this year, and Dublin is accepted as being the main driver of this. Further, during the recession, it is also accepted that there was a transfer of employment from regional areas to Dublin. Dublin continues to attract the large scale investment that delivers employment growth and attracts even more people to live here..

Occupancy rates for greater Dublin are around 2.35 (~1.2m people, 525k households). If 10,000 3 bed/3 person BTLs are sold as PPRs to couples, and the 10,000 extra people on the rental market leave Dublin - the occupancy rate goes from 2.354 to 2.328.

Within a few years, that couple has a child and the occupancy rate goes back to being unchanged. If they have another, the occupancy rate is now higher than it ever was as a BTL.

The main difference between Dublin and comparable housing/rental markets in the UK, is that as occupancy drops due to children moving out, Irish people don't downsize. There is a massive stock of 3-5 bed family homes around Dublin occupied by 1-2 elderly people, something that just doesn't happen elsewhere in Europe.

Because there's a lack of units, either existing units or new building supply coming on stream.

Which has exactly nothing to do with a thread about Landlords, and whether they should be offered incentives to stay in the market.

I can post in whatever thread I want unless a moderator tells me not to.

I didn't say you couldn't, I asked why you were posting in this thread when the topic you are doing a pretty poor job at understanding or talking about, is completely unrelated to this one.

As an aside, rather than calling someone patronising, I might suggest you actually refute or rebut what they say. Otherwise you're just calling someone names because you can't think of anything else to do.

athtrasna

Mod note Seeing as you didn't take my earlier non bolded hint borderlinemeath and khamilto I will ask you to take your personal to and fro to PM in order to avoid moderator intervention. Any further sniping will not be tolerated.

gaius c

borderlinemeath wrote: »

If occupancy rates were increasing with sales then why is there a crisis? Why is Alan Kelly pressing ahead with these measures? Why are people finding it so hard to find somewhere to rent? Because there's a lack of units, either existing units or new building supply coming on stream.

It's not that simple. Dublin has double the vacancy rate of other comparable cities.
http://www.businesspost.ie/home-truths-ireland-faces-a-planning-timebomb/

Fkall

gaius c wrote: »

It's not that simple. Dublin has double the vacancy rate of other comparable cities.
http://www.businesspost.ie/home-truths-ireland-faces-a-planning-timebomb/

If only the business post would provide a source for their claim that Dublin has double the vacancy rate of other comparable cities. Lucky for us we can take the output of the business post without question.

The only minor issues I have is London is the only city in Europe I can find with a sub 4% rate

gaius c

I asked your cleaners LL.