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More landlords to sell up over taxes and cost of letting property

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    #62
    draiochtanois
    Registered Users Posts: 2,655 ✭✭✭draiochtanois


    This post has been deleted.


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    #63
    DublinDilbert
    Registered Users Posts: 5,366 ✭✭✭DublinDilbert


    mickoneill31 wrote: »
    Are there any statistics as to how many houses are being bought to be rented out? I'd guess that the percentage is small but that's not based on anything. Is this info collected by any agency?

    They are quoting 18% of what's sold is going back to be rented out again.


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    #64
    RainyDay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,925 ✭✭✭RainyDay


    draiochtanois wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Are you sure?
    http://www.broadsheet.ie/2015/11/16/airbnb-and-the-revenue/
    draiochtanois wrote: »
    and better profitability.
    Are you sure? Short-term letting is a very, very different market - will the customers be there?


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    #65
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    borderlinemeath wrote: »
    He'll need luck. Thanks to the latest measures if the house doesn't sell he could be fined for trying.:mad:

    So True. Screwed every way


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    #66
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    DublinDilbert wrote: »
    They are quoting 18% of what's sold is going back to be rented out again.

    Thats 18% of BTL properties been sold are bought by btl investors


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    #67
    draiochtanois
    Registered Users Posts: 2,655 ✭✭✭draiochtanois


    This post has been deleted.


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    #68
    khamilto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 221 ✭✭khamilto


    How is tax treatment via airbnb lets any different?


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    #69
    vandriver
    Registered Users Posts: 3,460 ✭✭✭vandriver


    outsidein98 wrote: »
    You can argue it any way like, score points and win the sophistry game all you like but in reality like most accidental landlords my wife and I lose money on the house we rent out. Like most people in the same boat we'll sell up as soon as the sale price can pay off the remaining mortgage. We will never make a profit. Yet we're hit at the highest rate of tax for the rental income. That's partly why there's a shortage of private rental property. Now the government is trying to make it harder for people like us.
    That's the reality we face.

    You never achieved a rent higher than the interest and costs?


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    #70
    borderlinemeath
    Registered Users Posts: 5,339 ✭✭✭borderlinemeath


    khamilto wrote: »
    How is tax treatment via airbnb lets any different?

    Not necessarily taxation but not having to deal with the PRTB quango and abide by the RTA when it comes to the eviction of trouble tenants is worth more than any tax break.


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    #71
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    in my view , as a former renter, private rentals should be leased like commercial buildings , with a defined period, an agreed rent review and arbitration and relevant break periods. The tenant once he or she abides by the terms cannot be ejected unless by mutual agreement and that includes sale of the property

    fixing the rent for two years does nothing


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    #72
    khamilto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 221 ✭✭khamilto


    borderlinemeath wrote: »
    Not necessarily taxation but not having to deal with the PRTB quango and abide by the RTA when it comes to the eviction of trouble tenants is worth more than any tax break.

    You do understand that short term lets via airbnb (or otherwise) has a whole host of different costs, problems and drawbacks?

    If it were so easy, more people would be doing it already.


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    #73
    borderlinemeath
    Registered Users Posts: 5,339 ✭✭✭borderlinemeath


    khamilto wrote: »
    You do understand that short term lets via airbnb (or otherwise) has a whole host of different costs, problems and drawbacks?

    If it were so easy, more people would be doing it already.

    I'm not considering letting via airbnb, I haven't got the time to dedicate to it. I was simply replying to another posters query.


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    #74
    khamilto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 221 ✭✭khamilto


    borderlinemeath wrote: »
    I'm not considering letting via airbnb, I haven't got the time to dedicate to it. I was simply replying to another posters query.

    And I was just asking for an explanation of your reply.

    Sorry I guess?


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    #75
    borderlinemeath
    Registered Users Posts: 5,339 ✭✭✭borderlinemeath


    khamilto wrote: »
    And I was just asking for an explanation of your reply.

    Sorry?

    You didn't ask for an explanation whatsoever. You stated your opinion in a fairly patronising manner.


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    #76
    khamilto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 221 ✭✭khamilto


    borderlinemeath wrote: »
    You didn't ask for an explanation whatsoever. You stated your opinion in a fairly patronising manner.
    I made a statement leading to an expected explanation of how your original statement was correct, given that it presumably included these factors.

    If you felt patronised, that's on you and the quality of your posts - not on me.

    Sorry champ.


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    #77
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    Mod note Calm down folks. Please stay civil and don't get into tit for tat arguments with other posters. Thanks


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    #78
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    khamilto wrote: »
    You do understand that short term lets via airbnb (or otherwise) has a whole host of different costs, problems and drawbacks?

    If it were so easy, more people would be doing it already.

    more people are doing it, I have two friends who never rented in their life and now offer Airbnb, its a great way to earn small amounts of cash, The revenue reporting requirements are trivial and can be completed annually online in a few minutes


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    #79
    khamilto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 221 ✭✭khamilto


    BoatMad wrote: »
    more people are doing it, I have two friends who never rented in their life and now offer Airbnb, its a great way to earn small amounts of cash, The revenue reporting requirements are trivial and can be completed annually online in a few minutes

    You're kind of missing the point. The claim was that landlords should swap over to successive short term lets via airbnb rather than having traditional tenancies.


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    #80
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    khamilto wrote: »
    You're kind of missing the point. The claim was that landlords should swap over to successive short term lets via airbnb rather than having traditional tenancies.

    thats not going to happen, nor does it need airbnb for that to happen. a simple modification to legislation could easily correct any such " outbreak" by simply defining the nature of tenancy


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    #81
    khamilto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 221 ✭✭khamilto


    I'm not sure what you're trying to say, but tenancy is already defined.


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    #82
    BoatMad
    Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    khamilto wrote: »
    I'm not sure what you're trying to say, but tenancy is already defined.

    That if there was a serious attempt to use airbnb, to circumvent conventional rules on renting, a simple set of definitions in law would prohibit that


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    #83
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    BoatMad wrote: »
    That if there was a serious attempt to use airbnb, to circumvent conventional rules on renting, a simple set of definitions in law would prohibit that

    Airbnb is effectively a hotel type arrangement. The essence is short term. It would not be possible to disguise a standard letting as an Airbnb arrangement as the PRTB can inquire into the true nature of any agreement. It is in breach of planning legislation to let a house in this manner if the houses previous planning status was residential.


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    #84
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    gaius c wrote: »
    A house suitable for a family of 4 houses 20???

    Have you any more makey uppy anecdotes that actually weaken the argument you are trying to make?
    20 is wrong but a 4 bed house could easily house 8, 4 couples. Point stands.


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    #85
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    http://www.daft.ie/report

    the daft report today is showing that for most areas its not worth it for investors to buy at the moment as the rent and mortgages pays are not in a favorable position to make a return


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    #86
    April 73
    Registered Users Posts: 846 ✭✭✭April 73


    Heard from a local EA yesterday that the cheapest three bed house to rent in my local area is €1400 per month and it's the only property with three beds available at the moment.

    You could buy that house with a mortgage over 20 years for a similiar sum. Renters paying €1400 a month find it difficult to save the deposit now required to buy & are stuck renting in a dwindling rental market.

    Alan Kelly's rent control chatter has only caused a spike in rental prices - as many non-economists on forums predicted.

    Lack of capital appreciation, onerous taxes & interference are encouraging landlords to leave the market.

    New supply is in the doldrums & will be for several years to come. A new planned development in my area has been objected to by local residents despite a much-needed new road being part of the plans. If the developer gets permission houses are 1-2 years away from being occupied.


    It's a perfect storm. And the forecast isn't changing in the short to medium term.


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    #87
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    April 73 wrote: »
    Heard from a local EA yesterday that the cheapest three bed house to rent in my local area is €1400 per month and it's the only property with three beds available at the moment.

    You could buy that house with a mortgage over 20 years for a similiar sum. Renters paying €1400 a month find it difficult to save the deposit now required to buy & are stuck renting in a dwindling rental market.

    Alan Kelly's rent control chatter has only caused a spike in rental prices - as many non-economists on forums predicted.

    Lack of capital appreciation, onerous taxes & interference are encouraging landlords to leave the market.

    New supply is in the doldrums & will be for several years to come. A new planned development in my area has been objected to by local residents despite a much-needed new road being part of the plans. If the developer gets permission houses are 1-2 years away from being occupied.


    It's a perfect storm. And the forecast isn't changing in the short to medium term.


    Dont Forget there are alot of renters wheather or not they could afford it have no interest in buying


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    #88
    gizmo555
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,948 ✭✭✭gizmo555


    April 73 wrote: »
    Alan Kelly's rent control chatter has only caused a spike in rental prices - as many non-economists on forums predicted.

    Lack of capital appreciation, onerous taxes & interference are encouraging landlords to leave the market.

    What you say is exactly what today's Q3 2015 Daft Report on rentals says:
    Unfortunately, it [the Minister's intervention] does nothing to address those already homeless or indeed to address the underlying problem in the market, which is not a prices problem, rather it is a quantities one. There are simply not enough properties in the rental market to meet the demand Irish households have.


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    #89
    RainyDay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,925 ✭✭✭RainyDay


    murphaph wrote: »
    20 is wrong but a 4 bed house could easily house 8, 4 couples. Point stands.

    Most 4-beds include 2 box rooms, which are definitely NOT designed to accomodate 2 adults - 2 kids in bunk beds maybe, but not 2 adults.
    handlemaster wrote: »
    http://www.daft.ie/report

    the daft report today is showing that for most areas its not worth it for investors to buy at the moment as the rent and mortgages pays are not in a favorable position to make a return

    What is their definition of 'not worth it to buy'? Do they mean 'can't get someone else to pay for my asset for me', which seems to be the usual definition when it comes to landlords?


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    #90
    gaius c
    Registered Users Posts: 3,528 ✭✭✭gaius c


    handlemaster wrote: »
    http://www.daft.ie/report

    the daft report today is showing that for most areas its not worth it for investors to buy at the moment as the prices are such that it's not a favorable position to make a return

    FYP

    The problem is high prices and poor yields despite record rents. The fiddling with allowable expenses suggested by various VI's here will only push prices further and depress yields.


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    #91
    draiochtanois
    Registered Users Posts: 2,655 ✭✭✭draiochtanois


    This post has been deleted.


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