Are you "proud" of the Irish Rugby team and how they did in RWC2015?

Micky Dolenz

We underachieved, can hardly be proud of that. Getting an arse kicking of 23 pts in a 1/4 against Argentina is hardly a crowning moment. However, you dust off and move on. That's the thing about being a national team supporter and I include players, you don't have the option of picking another team, you are kinda stuck with the one you're stuck with and with that in mind, it's not a bad ould team to have.

sydneybound

This OP looks to be on a mission... No I'm not proud of Ireland they were a disgrace and I'll never watch them again..... Happy now?

I am proud of the team. They topped the group which is always a good start and only for injuries we would beat Argentina. To think we were missing O'Connell the absolute leader, O'Brien who was MOTM against France and playing immense, POM who I thought was badly missed at the breakdown and Sexton who generally is a lot more reliable than Madigan under pressure situation. They are four players plus Murray I would have hated to lose at any point during the tournament let alone QFs. The Puma basically had two weeks off before the QF so we're much fresher than Ireland who had played two tough games in a row.

But to answer your question yes I am proud of Ireland and can't wait for the six nations to start and I expect the next couple of years for Ireland will be tough breaking in new players for 2019 but it has to be done sometime.

Jawgap

I'm proud of the team, always have been and always will be.

Are the team proud of themselves? God, I hope not. For one, I think getting that green jersey is a proud moment, but I hope none of them see it as an achievement - it (getting into a national squad) is, as someone said in another sport, an opportunity to achieve.

I'd also say that I'm still proud of the team we sent to the RWC - disappointed at what they achieved, but proud nonetheless.

I would find it deeply disappointing to find out that any player was proud of what was achieved at the RWC. I think, for a variety of reasons, we underachieved, but I also think Schmidt should have his contract extended - I wouldn't want another team to benefit from his first RWC experience; I'd be reasonably confident he's a better coach for the last couple of months.

sydthebeat

If this is the quality of thread you create generally, do us a favor and don't bother creating any more. Seems to be nothing more than baiting for sea gulls.

We played 6 games in that rwc, won 5.

Personally I'm very disappointed that this bunch of players didn't fulfill their potential of at least a semi final, but the mammoth task of completely destroying France took too much of a toll.

I'm proud of any player who puts rugby jersey on and goes out and gives his all for his team.
I'm bitterly disappointed at the same time.
The two can coexist.

chupacabra

I'm always proud to see an Irish sporting team/person perform well in any sport but I think the players themselves would have been tremendously disappointed to go out in the quarters against Argentina and I know for a fact if I was a player at that level I would feel like i've let my nation down to a certain extent. No matter the pats on the back, the support from the fans or mammy at home, I would feel like a failure. But that says more about my mind than anything else

nc6000

sydneybound wrote: »

This OP looks to be on a mission... No I'm not proud of Ireland they were a disgrace and I'll never watch them again..... Happy now?

I am proud of the team. They topped the group which is always a good start and only for injuries we would beat Argentina. To think we were missing O'Connell the absolute leader, O'Brien who was MOTM against France and playing immense, POM who I thought was badly missed at the breakdown and Sexton who generally is a lot more reliable than Madigan under pressure situation. They are four players plus Murray I would have hated to lose at any point during the tournament let alone QFs. The Puma basically had two weeks off before the QF so we're much fresher than Ireland who had played two tough games in a row.

But to answer your question yes I am proud of Ireland and can't wait for the six nations to start and I expect the next couple of years for Ireland will be tough breaking in new players for 2019 but it has to be done sometime.

Oh come on. Excuses excuses.

We were hammered by Argentina, completely caught out by them and failed to adapt over the 80 minutes and they ran away with it in the end with 20 unanswered points.

I'm not sure the injuries made that much difference really and to say that Argentina had two weeks off beforehand doesn't excuse the result.

Ireland should have been well prepared enough to play 3 relatively tough games in 3 weeks but they weren't.

It was another flop of a RWC just like 2003, 2007 and 2011 and I see no reason why 2019 would be any different.

Maybe we should just be happy to have topped our group and made the last 8. We are further away than ever from making the last 4.

kidneyfan

nc6000 wrote: »

Oh come on. Excuses excuses.

We were hammered by Argentina, completely caught out by them and failed to adapt over the 80 minutes and they ran away with it in the end with 20 unanswered points.

I'm not sure the injuries made that much difference really and to say that Argentina had two weeks off beforehand doesn't excuse the result.

Ireland should have been well prepared enough to play 3 relatively tough games in 3 weeks but they weren't.

It was another flop of a RWC just like 2003, 2007 and 2011 and I see no reason why 2019 would be any different.

Maybe we should just be happy to have topped our group and made the last 8. We are further away than ever from making the last 4.

Strange assertion that the injuries didn't matter. The more fundamental question is why are there so many injuries? Change the playbook I think because this playbook is ripping through our players.

Also 2019 is a good chance for Ireland; if we have the guts to begin getting ready for it now and stop accepting fake honours like 'winning the 6 nations'.

OP no I am not proud, I am not ashamed. I accept that the players on the pitch did their best and that is all anyone can ask.

kuang1

nc6000 wrote: »

I'm not sure the injuries made that much difference really and to say that Argentina had two weeks off beforehand doesn't excuse the result.

In this one sentence alone, you clearly show us all your level of understanding of the modern game.
Thank you.

I no longer have to read any more of your contributions.

Micky Dolenz

Injuries count, of course and to lose some many so quickly is a major problem.

How on earth did Australia and the All Blacks come through the tournament relatively unscathed.

kidneyfan

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Injuries count, of course and to lose some many so quickly is a major problem.

How on earth did Australia and the All Blacks come through the tournament relatively unscathed.

Are Irish players more frail or are we doing something that gets them hurt and if so should we stop doing it. Very proud of the Irish players. They tried hard and that's all that matters.

Micky Dolenz

kidneyfan wrote: »

Are Irish players more frail or are we doing something that gets them hurt and if so should we stop doing it. Very proud of the Irish players. They tried hard and that's all that matters.

Not just us, look at the Welsh, thought my mate from Hollyhead, who played rugby a few times, was going to get a call up at some stage.

Eponymous

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Injuries count, of course and to lose some many so quickly is a major problem.

How on earth did Australia and the All Blacks come through the tournament relatively unscathed.

Someone in the press quoted Pocock as having said that the SH players are "battle hardened" and seem to recover quicker having played their S15 and RC tournaments (half a tournament this year) just ahead of their RWC prep.

There could be a fair bit of truth in that.

I'm not dignifying the OP with a response. It's pure bait.

captbarnacles

The All Blacks, Aus and particularly South Africa do not shy away from physical contact and hit rucks probably harder than anyone. Ireland were desperately unlucky do have severe injuries to key players.

Because rugby is such a brutal game now I am proud of the way the players go out and put their bodies on the line for Ireland. The fact that we were not good enough missing those 5 players doesn't change that all. They gave 100% effort.

Fr Tod Umptious

This thread seems to have the same tone as some other threads That have appeared here since the world cup, the Ewan McKenna one and the "inclusiveness" blog post in particular.

I am not a rugby fan but its impossible to ignore the build up to and the coverage of the world cup.

I notice here that posters are very quick to dismiss any perceived criticism of the Irish rugby team.

I'm not sure why fans close ranks so quickly around this issue and other issues where the team is questioned.

In other sports fans would be much quicker to give honest critical analysis, it seems to be absent here.

Is it because rugby is a minority sport and its a case of "us against everyone else" ?

I can't figure it out.

kidneyfan

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

In other sports fans would be much quicker to give honest critical analysis, it seems to be absent here.

The initial post asked for our feelings not for analysis.

Fr Tod Umptious

kidneyfan wrote: »

The initial post asked for our feelings not for analysis.

Ok
Other sports fans are quicker to vent their disappointment/frustration/anger.

The team I support the most have not won their particular championship for decades yet have been for the most part competitive and in the last 5 years in particular have been consistently in the top 4 of the sport.
And every year they fail to win there are plenty of honest questions asked by fans of both players and managers about what went wrong

captbarnacles

Some people want the Irish team and management to wear sackcloth and ashes and they won't be satisfied until they do. It's a really strange mindset.

For the billionth time, fans have a lot of faith in this coach because we have won back to back Six Nations and beaten Australia and South Africa in the autumn series alongside our best ever performance vs NZ. It was obvious to everyone if you read this forum that we needed POC, Murray and Sexton to stay fit if we wanted to go deep in the WC. We lost 2 of these plus SOB, POM and Jared Payne and went out to a good Argentinian team who played exceptionally well.

kidneyfan

captbarnacles wrote: »

Some people want the Irish team and management to wear sackcloth and ashes and they won't be satisfied until they do. It's a really strange mindset.

For the billionth time, fans have a lot of faith in this coach because we have won back to back Six Nations and beaten Australia and South Africa in the autumn series alongside our best ever performance vs NZ. It was obvious to everyone if you read this forum that we needed POC, Murray and Sexton to stay fit if we wanted to go deep in the WC. We lost 2 of these plus SOB, POM and Jared Payne and went out to a good Argentinian team who played exceptionally well.

One can be proud of the team without believing that 'back to back six nations' is a thing and without believing that Schmidt either picked his best team or managed their fitness properly. Pride in the team does not obviate a poor objective result. I am proud of the players.

WarZ

I don't think the players deserve any praise for how they performed in the World Cup. They were brutal against Italy and shambolic against Argentina. If they are honestly proud of that campaign then they really need a wake up call. The players are treated far too nice by the press.

Staplor

I expected at least a quarter final, at best a semi final, they achieved that.

I'm not proud, nor disappointed.

I can't be proud for them meeting what my expectation was, I can't be disappointed because they didn't do less than the minimum I expected.

kidneyfan

WarZ wrote: »

I don't think the players deserve any praise for how they performed in the World Cup. They were brutal against Italy and shambolic against Argentina. If they are honestly proud of that campaign then they really need a wake up call. The players are treated far too nice by the press.

I suppose you'd have done better?

Flipper22

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Ok
Other sports fans are quicker to vent their disappointment/frustration/anger.

The team I support the most have not won their particular championship for decades yet have been for the most part competitive and in the last 5 years in particular have been consistently in the top 4 of the sport.
And every year they fail to win there are plenty of honest questions asked by fans of both players and managers about what went wrong

Many sports fans do vent disappointment, anger etc and are typically way off the mark in the reasons they posit for a sporting failure. This is often true of rugby fans too btw. I don't think we need to encourage reactionary type analysis where everyone says we're brilliant after we beat france or rubbish after we lost to argentina. Then after a defeat like that we have people coming up with all sorts of reasons, players aren't good enough, skills aren't good enough, depth isn't good enough, etc etc.

I don't think it's a bad thing to check your disappointment and be able to see that the main factor in not reaching a semi final was luck. First and foremost in terms of players not being available. It's also the second world cup in a row where we've won the group, only to come up against a beatable side in the QF putting on easily their best performance of the tournament. That's unlucky. We had a one week turnaround from an incredibly brutal game against france, while they had basically three weeks off to get themselves to the right mental pitch.

I'm not absolving them of blame either. I'm sure the coaching team are looking at whether we could have dealt better with injuries ( though personally I don't see how, the All Blacks wouldn't have made the final either had they been missing Retallick, McCaw, Kaino, Carter, Conrad Smith imo). More relevantly, I think, we need to think about why we were so flat at the start of the game.

Fr Tod Umptious

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I notice here that posters are very quick to dismiss any perceived criticism of the Irish rugby team.

I'm not sure why fans close ranks so quickly around this issue and other issues where the team is questioned.

In other sports fans would be much quicker to give honest critical analysis, it seems to be absent here.

Heh?

Around 15 minutes after the Argentina game I decided (and was seemingly not alone) to take a week at least away from the forum.

But despite this I've read PLENTY of criticism. Maybe the difference with "other" fans is that it's qualified criticism and not hysteria.

NZ barely beat SA and if Carter, McCaw, Whitelock, Reid and Conrad Smith were all injured 7 days beforehand they probably would have lost.

We lost the worst possible 5 players in a row that we could. It's not an excuse, it's is heavily causative. That said, we also underperformed badly against Argentina and that's life.

This forum has been a begrudgers wet dream the last 3 weeks.

swiwi_

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

How on earth did Australia and the All Blacks come through the tournament relatively unscathed.

A breakfast of weetbix, marmite on toast, and a glass of Milo, I'm telling ye. If you're an Aussie kid, you replace the marmite with vegemite.

Those important dietary elements aside, the main thing is not to worry about all this "pride" business, but rather that Schmidt and the lads learn from the experience, and I hope Schmidt might get another shot in 2019. For Steve Hansen, this was his 4th RWC I believe, and he had clearly learnt from previous (mis)adventures.

Finally, injury is part and parcel of a RWC campaign, which is why luck comes into it. The least injured sides made the final, which was certainly a factor (but of course not the only factor) in both sides' success. However, if you go into every world cup banking on no injuries, you'll come up short most times. It was unfortunate for Ireland that some of your best players were the ones injured, and it is certainly possible (but I'm not sure inevitable) that without those injures you would have beaten Argentina.

Muahahaha

I'm proud of the team though I do feel they underachieved somewhat. Also when watching the warm up games (two of which we lost iirc) I felt our tactics of low risk rugby were getting to the stage of being remarkably predictable, whilst watching us with the ball in hand you could predict pretty easily the next move. This predictability came home to roost vs. Argentina IMO, they had the answers to everything we threw at them, presumably because they had watched all our 6N and warm up games.

I do though agree with the OP somewhat, I think the media here are often too quick to label things as 'heroic' and err towards sensationalism instead of proper analysis. Joe Schmidt's interview with Tubridy on the Late Late was the shining example of this. Joe looked perplexed at how much praise Tubridy was lauding on him. You could see on his face that he was genuinely surprised at it. For him he was clearly dissappointed and the last thing he was expecting was a host treating him like we'd just won the thing. Joe would know better than most how the NZ media would have reacted to the same situation.

In any case I don't think Heaslip slagging off players publically would do any good. I'm hoping though there is conversations in private where players admit to their shortcomings and set about improvement. Also I hope in the background Schmidt is analysing the performances and perhaps coming up with making us a less predictable side to play against.

topmanamillion

It was a pretty ****e performance really. All we learnt is the six nations champions are less than all the rugby championship teams.

CatFromHue

Muahahaha wrote: »

I do though agree with the OP somewhat, I think the media here are often too quick to label things as 'heroic' and err towards sensationalism instead of proper analysis.

The celeb media is but not the rugby media.

The rugby media, which if you only general sports you wouldn't pay much attention to, is actually very critical of rugby in Ireland. George Hook, Neil Francis, Tom McGurk, Brendan Fanning, even Keith Wood or Matt Williams, they don't give out praise willy nilly.

If you don't read or listen to these people then you could think the Irish team gets off easily but I think the rugby guys get it harder than any other sport in Ireland.

Once you discount that the vast majority of soccer coverage and "hard" analysis is actually not of Irish interest,

padser

I'm not "proud" of Ireland at RWC2015. I don't see how anyone could be. In a million years I don't believe the players are.

We had (I believe) the 4th or 5th best players at the tournament and the best coach. There was only one team that I didn't genuinely believe we should be (at least) within a score of after 80 minutes.

In the end we beat two tier 2 teams, struggled badly against Italy, beat France well (a team that hasn't finished in the top half of 6n in three yrs, and looked every bit that bad) and had our asses handed to us by Argentina (who showed in their semi final that they really are not world beaters).

Why would this performance give us pride?

I'd feel pride if I was New Zealand and had won it (about par for their ability)

I'd feel pride if I was Australian as they over performed their squads abilities and were within a score of NZ after 60 minutes in the final

I'd feel pride if I was Japan and has over performed by beating South Africa

I'd feel pride if I was Wales and has dealt with that injury profile all tournament and beat England and came within a whisker of a semi final.

I'd feel pride if I was Scotland and deserved a semi final place at the expense of Australia but for a referee decision

And finally...... I'd feel pride if I was ..... Argentina and had taken apart the back to back 6 nations champions :-(


Don't get me wrong, the injuries and suspensions we had made our task more difficult and turned the game into almost a scratch game. But that doesn't mean there was anything at the world cup to be proud of

Teferi

topmanamillion wrote: »

It was a pretty ****e performance really. All we learnt is the six nations champions are less than all the rugby championship teams.

Nonsense. Argentina played to their ceiling, we played exceptionally average. If we had played to our ceiling I would have backed us to win.

Eugene Norman

Too big a fear of the All Blacks was a problem for both France and Ireland. If group A was playing the qualifiers of any other group than C then that game would have been far less intense.