Are you "proud" of the Irish Rugby team and how they did in RWC2015?

Chorus_suck

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CIARAN_BOYLE

Well I wouldn't say that I'm proud. I was happy to beat France the crowning achievement of an acceptable tournament.

dodderangler

Had high hopes of them reaching the finals but proud non the less.

efb

No, didn't reach their potential imho.

Chorus_suck

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Chorus_suck

Chorus_suck wrote: »

Interesting that the first few posts seem to aggree with my OP.

So this raises 2 interesting questions:

1. Do the players think they did us proud?
2. If so, where do they get this belief? And will it lead to perennial under-achievement?

It would seem to contrast with the attitude of other nations ... I seem to remember Jean De Villiers saying something like SA would be in flames if there was another performance like they had against Japan. Is the difference between winners and under-achievers?

We didn't lose to Japan.

Heaslip is captain, what else is he going to say? The team should have been aiming for a semi, maybe final and I can guarantee that while proud of their efforts and prep, they won't be happy to have exited at the stage and manner they did.

I know the lads back at Leinster are fairly disgusted with themselves and SOB is supposedly an absolute bull having messed up and not made the semi cos of the card.

Chorus_suck

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captbarnacles

Yes.

Chorus_suck

Chorus_suck wrote: »

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I'm not sure what you want out of Heaslip. He's the captain and isn't representing himself, he represents the team and his comments reflect on them. The team can be proud of their effort, the work they did in the run up to the QF and not ignore that effort because of one poor performance. As much as the fans are disappointed, the players are experiencing another level of dejection.

Chorus_suck wrote: »

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I've a mate and a relative involved in different capacities with the squad or members of the squad.

Regardless of everything above, the players have to put a positive outlook on this tournament. They've a six nations in a few months and sports people have to be positive and keep moving forward. It would be a lot easier to wallow in self pity and Mike Brown their way through interviews, but they are being good role models and moving on.

irishbucsfan

I think the hoops that people/journalists are jumping through here to pin terms like "proud" and "heroic" on the players shows just how much of a straw man argument this has become.

CatFromHue

it's just a bloody saying!

what do you want people to say to him in public?

Chorus_suck

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Chorus_suck

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irishbucsfan

Chorus_suck wrote: »

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You've said yourself Heaslip had to be pushed into saying he was proud. At the f*cking web summit of all places. Now you suddenly seem to be certain that the entire team are proud of their achievements. Seems you've moved quite a long away in a very short amount of time on that one...

Chorus_suck

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Stheno

Chorus_suck wrote: »

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Well I for one am proud of how the players dealt with the continual injuries and loss of key players during the France game, and went on to win.

I'm proud of how they fought back to get within 3 points of Argentina.

Am I disappointed they didn't go further?

For sure, but I can't see how losing those five players through injury/suspension didn't inhibit them dreadfully.

What do you want, for them to fall on their swords and say they were terrible? They weren't, they suffered a huge loss of key players, and went on to do the best they could on the day.

irishbucsfan

Chorus_suck wrote: »

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Well I assumed, maybe incorrectly, that you think this based on the fact you've created a thread in which to complain about it, it's inductive. Are you saying you don't think the team feel that way then?

Chorus_suck

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Chorus_suck

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Stheno

Chorus_suck wrote: »

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Schmidt himself said that the biggest disapointment was letting the fans down.

What more do you want?

Chorus_suck

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Stheno

Chorus_suck wrote: »

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Well surely Schmidt saying he is disappointed is enough, if the coach isn't happy with the achivements, then there needs to be improvement.

Schmidt however has also said that the huge loss of multiple key players affected the team. Do you disagree with that?

Chorus_suck

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irishbucsfan

Chorus_suck wrote: »

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Right, so either you DO think they're proud of what they've achieved and you just don't want to say so for "some strange reason". Or you DON'T think they're proud of what they've achieved and this thread is pointless. Either way I don't think there's little to actually be gained here.

The team have been criticised a lot since the game. Criticism is worthwhile when it's based in reality rather than on guesses and intimations.

Chorus_suck

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errlloyd

Heaslip pretty honestly said in his first interview that he thought he had let us down. He did let us down.

That said I am proud. I would be prepared to wear my Ireland 2015 RWC Jersey into a sports bar in Australia, South Africa, Wales, France, England, Argentina or Scotland and I wouldn't be worried that a fan from another country would come up and talk to me about the world cup, and that is pride right?

I don't wish this world cup didn't happen, or dread what paper writers all over the world would make of our campaign. I was disappointed that the way the fixtures panned out we didn't get a win worth writing about, but **** them who did?

We didn't have a world cup worth boasting about, we didn't have one to hide away from either.

Mixed feelings, I felt all along the last couple of years that we were slightly overachieving with a fairly moderate squad but in reality we played 3 games at the tournament and we didn't really deliver. We beat a poor Italian side with a full strength side very unconvincingly. We did well to pull through against France after the injuries we suffered but in all honesty France were a clueless shambles. Argentina, even allowing for the injuries the fact we were so far off the pace from the off was unforgivable. First box kick that went up should have been signal for Ireland to get the defensive line up and set the tone for the day. Instead Argentina gathered in comfort and started on the attack. It set the tone for the opening 20 minutes or so. We eventually got someway towards what was needed on the day but failed to capitalise on the momentum we had generated before falling away again. For me the World Cup was a failure and unlike Wales and Scotland there wasn't really anything for us to take from this heading into the 6 nations.

This World Cup wasn't as hard to take as 2011 as Australia would have swatted us aside if we had got to the semi-final whereas in 2011 there was a clear pathway to the final visible for us.

I still think Joe Schmidt is the right man to lead us forward. Leinster played great rugby at times during his tenure, we have rarely seen that from Ireland and there has all along been a noticeable tendency towards low risk rugby. We need to shift our focus heading forward if we are to stabilise and narrow the gap to the big sides.

CatFromHue

Chorus_suck wrote: »

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You're never going to get that.

If every person in a squad of 31 gave their honest view of their team mates and the team it would result in anarchy and the team would just disintegrate.

duckysauce

CatFromHue wrote: »

You're never going to get that.

If every person in a squad of 31 gave their honest view of their team mates and the team it would result in anarchy and the team would just disintegrate.

Lancaster should have told his squad that

http://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/featured-post/24355/england-moaners-should-keep-traps-shut-blasts-danny-care/

CatFromHue

That's only 2 guys who gave their views and look what it's caused.

corny

'Proud' is a bit OTT.

Do i think we did ourselves justice at the tournament? Maybe. Hard to know where us being poor and the Argies exposing us starts and stops.

Micky Dolenz

We underachieved, can hardly be proud of that. Getting an arse kicking of 23 pts in a 1/4 against Argentina is hardly a crowning moment. However, you dust off and move on. That's the thing about being a national team supporter and I include players, you don't have the option of picking another team, you are kinda stuck with the one you're stuck with and with that in mind, it's not a bad ould team to have.

sydneybound

This OP looks to be on a mission... No I'm not proud of Ireland they were a disgrace and I'll never watch them again..... Happy now?

I am proud of the team. They topped the group which is always a good start and only for injuries we would beat Argentina. To think we were missing O'Connell the absolute leader, O'Brien who was MOTM against France and playing immense, POM who I thought was badly missed at the breakdown and Sexton who generally is a lot more reliable than Madigan under pressure situation. They are four players plus Murray I would have hated to lose at any point during the tournament let alone QFs. The Puma basically had two weeks off before the QF so we're much fresher than Ireland who had played two tough games in a row.

But to answer your question yes I am proud of Ireland and can't wait for the six nations to start and I expect the next couple of years for Ireland will be tough breaking in new players for 2019 but it has to be done sometime.

Jawgap

I'm proud of the team, always have been and always will be.

Are the team proud of themselves? God, I hope not. For one, I think getting that green jersey is a proud moment, but I hope none of them see it as an achievement - it (getting into a national squad) is, as someone said in another sport, an opportunity to achieve.

I'd also say that I'm still proud of the team we sent to the RWC - disappointed at what they achieved, but proud nonetheless.

I would find it deeply disappointing to find out that any player was proud of what was achieved at the RWC. I think, for a variety of reasons, we underachieved, but I also think Schmidt should have his contract extended - I wouldn't want another team to benefit from his first RWC experience; I'd be reasonably confident he's a better coach for the last couple of months.

sydthebeat

If this is the quality of thread you create generally, do us a favor and don't bother creating any more. Seems to be nothing more than baiting for sea gulls.

We played 6 games in that rwc, won 5.

Personally I'm very disappointed that this bunch of players didn't fulfill their potential of at least a semi final, but the mammoth task of completely destroying France took too much of a toll.

I'm proud of any player who puts rugby jersey on and goes out and gives his all for his team.
I'm bitterly disappointed at the same time.
The two can coexist.

chupacabra

I'm always proud to see an Irish sporting team/person perform well in any sport but I think the players themselves would have been tremendously disappointed to go out in the quarters against Argentina and I know for a fact if I was a player at that level I would feel like i've let my nation down to a certain extent. No matter the pats on the back, the support from the fans or mammy at home, I would feel like a failure. But that says more about my mind than anything else

nc6000

sydneybound wrote: »

This OP looks to be on a mission... No I'm not proud of Ireland they were a disgrace and I'll never watch them again..... Happy now?

I am proud of the team. They topped the group which is always a good start and only for injuries we would beat Argentina. To think we were missing O'Connell the absolute leader, O'Brien who was MOTM against France and playing immense, POM who I thought was badly missed at the breakdown and Sexton who generally is a lot more reliable than Madigan under pressure situation. They are four players plus Murray I would have hated to lose at any point during the tournament let alone QFs. The Puma basically had two weeks off before the QF so we're much fresher than Ireland who had played two tough games in a row.

But to answer your question yes I am proud of Ireland and can't wait for the six nations to start and I expect the next couple of years for Ireland will be tough breaking in new players for 2019 but it has to be done sometime.

Oh come on. Excuses excuses.

We were hammered by Argentina, completely caught out by them and failed to adapt over the 80 minutes and they ran away with it in the end with 20 unanswered points.

I'm not sure the injuries made that much difference really and to say that Argentina had two weeks off beforehand doesn't excuse the result.

Ireland should have been well prepared enough to play 3 relatively tough games in 3 weeks but they weren't.

It was another flop of a RWC just like 2003, 2007 and 2011 and I see no reason why 2019 would be any different.

Maybe we should just be happy to have topped our group and made the last 8. We are further away than ever from making the last 4.

kidneyfan

nc6000 wrote: »

Oh come on. Excuses excuses.

We were hammered by Argentina, completely caught out by them and failed to adapt over the 80 minutes and they ran away with it in the end with 20 unanswered points.

I'm not sure the injuries made that much difference really and to say that Argentina had two weeks off beforehand doesn't excuse the result.

Ireland should have been well prepared enough to play 3 relatively tough games in 3 weeks but they weren't.

It was another flop of a RWC just like 2003, 2007 and 2011 and I see no reason why 2019 would be any different.

Maybe we should just be happy to have topped our group and made the last 8. We are further away than ever from making the last 4.

Strange assertion that the injuries didn't matter. The more fundamental question is why are there so many injuries? Change the playbook I think because this playbook is ripping through our players.

Also 2019 is a good chance for Ireland; if we have the guts to begin getting ready for it now and stop accepting fake honours like 'winning the 6 nations'.

OP no I am not proud, I am not ashamed. I accept that the players on the pitch did their best and that is all anyone can ask.

kuang1

nc6000 wrote: »

I'm not sure the injuries made that much difference really and to say that Argentina had two weeks off beforehand doesn't excuse the result.

In this one sentence alone, you clearly show us all your level of understanding of the modern game.
Thank you.

I no longer have to read any more of your contributions.

Micky Dolenz

Injuries count, of course and to lose some many so quickly is a major problem.

How on earth did Australia and the All Blacks come through the tournament relatively unscathed.

kidneyfan

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Injuries count, of course and to lose some many so quickly is a major problem.

How on earth did Australia and the All Blacks come through the tournament relatively unscathed.

Are Irish players more frail or are we doing something that gets them hurt and if so should we stop doing it. Very proud of the Irish players. They tried hard and that's all that matters.

Micky Dolenz

kidneyfan wrote: »

Are Irish players more frail or are we doing something that gets them hurt and if so should we stop doing it. Very proud of the Irish players. They tried hard and that's all that matters.

Not just us, look at the Welsh, thought my mate from Hollyhead, who played rugby a few times, was going to get a call up at some stage.

Eponymous

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Injuries count, of course and to lose some many so quickly is a major problem.

How on earth did Australia and the All Blacks come through the tournament relatively unscathed.

Someone in the press quoted Pocock as having said that the SH players are "battle hardened" and seem to recover quicker having played their S15 and RC tournaments (half a tournament this year) just ahead of their RWC prep.

There could be a fair bit of truth in that.

I'm not dignifying the OP with a response. It's pure bait.

captbarnacles

The All Blacks, Aus and particularly South Africa do not shy away from physical contact and hit rucks probably harder than anyone. Ireland were desperately unlucky do have severe injuries to key players.

Because rugby is such a brutal game now I am proud of the way the players go out and put their bodies on the line for Ireland. The fact that we were not good enough missing those 5 players doesn't change that all. They gave 100% effort.

Fr Tod Umptious

This thread seems to have the same tone as some other threads That have appeared here since the world cup, the Ewan McKenna one and the "inclusiveness" blog post in particular.

I am not a rugby fan but its impossible to ignore the build up to and the coverage of the world cup.

I notice here that posters are very quick to dismiss any perceived criticism of the Irish rugby team.

I'm not sure why fans close ranks so quickly around this issue and other issues where the team is questioned.

In other sports fans would be much quicker to give honest critical analysis, it seems to be absent here.

Is it because rugby is a minority sport and its a case of "us against everyone else" ?

I can't figure it out.

kidneyfan

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

In other sports fans would be much quicker to give honest critical analysis, it seems to be absent here.

The initial post asked for our feelings not for analysis.

Fr Tod Umptious

kidneyfan wrote: »

The initial post asked for our feelings not for analysis.

Ok
Other sports fans are quicker to vent their disappointment/frustration/anger.

The team I support the most have not won their particular championship for decades yet have been for the most part competitive and in the last 5 years in particular have been consistently in the top 4 of the sport.
And every year they fail to win there are plenty of honest questions asked by fans of both players and managers about what went wrong

captbarnacles

Some people want the Irish team and management to wear sackcloth and ashes and they won't be satisfied until they do. It's a really strange mindset.

For the billionth time, fans have a lot of faith in this coach because we have won back to back Six Nations and beaten Australia and South Africa in the autumn series alongside our best ever performance vs NZ. It was obvious to everyone if you read this forum that we needed POC, Murray and Sexton to stay fit if we wanted to go deep in the WC. We lost 2 of these plus SOB, POM and Jared Payne and went out to a good Argentinian team who played exceptionally well.

kidneyfan

captbarnacles wrote: »

Some people want the Irish team and management to wear sackcloth and ashes and they won't be satisfied until they do. It's a really strange mindset.

For the billionth time, fans have a lot of faith in this coach because we have won back to back Six Nations and beaten Australia and South Africa in the autumn series alongside our best ever performance vs NZ. It was obvious to everyone if you read this forum that we needed POC, Murray and Sexton to stay fit if we wanted to go deep in the WC. We lost 2 of these plus SOB, POM and Jared Payne and went out to a good Argentinian team who played exceptionally well.

One can be proud of the team without believing that 'back to back six nations' is a thing and without believing that Schmidt either picked his best team or managed their fitness properly. Pride in the team does not obviate a poor objective result. I am proud of the players.

WarZ

I don't think the players deserve any praise for how they performed in the World Cup. They were brutal against Italy and shambolic against Argentina. If they are honestly proud of that campaign then they really need a wake up call. The players are treated far too nice by the press.

Staplor

I expected at least a quarter final, at best a semi final, they achieved that.

I'm not proud, nor disappointed.

I can't be proud for them meeting what my expectation was, I can't be disappointed because they didn't do less than the minimum I expected.