waiting for licence

eoin.d

Sent in renewal application for. 22, got grant letter after 10 days and paid 80 euro. It's two weeks now and still no licence. Rang guards and they said nothing to do with them anymore, I rang the phone number on top of grant letter and they said ring guards. is there anyone else I can ring to find out what the delay is? I seem to remember a helpful place in Dublin I rang couple of years back but I can't remember who they were

Cass

Firearms Policy Unit? If so it's 01-6661911. Gda Paul Green or Tim O'Mahony.

eoin.d

Thanks cass, I will try them. Hopefully they can help me

PSXDupe

I'd hold off for another couple of days

I remember the licence for my .22 back in June came about 6-7 days after paying the €80. A couple of months back it took over 2 weeks to get my licence for my air rifle after paying the €80.

Again a couple of weeks ago I done a substitution, spoke to the firearms office and cleared everything up about the substitution. Submitted the paperwork and still waiting, that's nearly three weeks ago.

There seems to be some sort of delay in issuing the actual paper licence after paying the money. (I think)

Cass

I submitted two FCRs, and two FCA1s at 4pm on Monday. Got the grant letters on Wednesday, paid that morning and received both of them this morning, along with the two licenses that were subs.

Portlaoise station on the ball.

Luckysasha

I submitted my first license application at 10pm on Thursday night. Got the grant letter Friday week. Paid the €80 that day and got my actual license on the Wednesday. All wrapped up in less that two weeks

eoin.d

Still no licence. I rang firearms policy unit and they told me get onto local station. Rang local station they told me to get back onto them in a week if licence hadn't come.

tac foley

Meanwhile, over here in England, Essex County firearms licensing unit are taking FORTY-TWO weeks to process a new application...

tac

eoin.d

tac foley wrote:

Meanwhile, over here in England, Essex County firearms licensing unit are taking FORTY-TWO weeks to process a new application...

tac foley wrote:

tac

Maybe I'm not so bad afterall

Cass

Any joy yet?

eoin.d

Rang firearm policy unit last Tuesday was told it was sent out to me 2 weeks ago. They told me they would sent another one and I'd definitely have it by last Thursday. Still no license. I don't know if they are not sending it or what the problem is

Cass

You rang them on Tuesday (just gone by) the 10th November? The FPU told you that you'd have it by the Thursday (just gone) the 12th November?

Is that right?

If that is what they said i'd wait another few days. With Christmas just around the corner, and a host of other factors the average seems to be three to five days. This is based on myself and a few lads i've been speaking to. So if you don't have it by Tuesday of next week (17th Nov) then i'd start to call them again.

eoin.d

Yes they. Said they would issue another one and I'd definitely have it by 12th November. I will wait a few days more don't know what happened first one though

Cass

Do, i reckon you'll have it by Monday or Tuesday at the latest.

eoin.d

Cass wrote:

Do, i reckon you'll have it by Monday or Tuesday at the latest.

Hopefully it will. I have 7 weeks left on current licence. Surely I will have it by then!!

g00167015

Hi Cass, it obviously means I'm not a Portlaoise resident so, when our renewals take five months from the time they are signed for at reception to be received at the district office in the next room, or where small amendments to cartridge numbers take ten or eleven months, in effect ruining an entire season's competition clays with making 90 mile round trips every couple days to the RFD.

Heck even my 204 app from June is still being used as a mousemat. The clerk isn't allowing anyone to make appointments with the Super either to find out what in God's name is going on.

Of course there are more important things to be worrying about but it is annoying all the same.

Consistent inconsistency dot com haha

Sure they always said that Portlaoise residents were all top blokes, eh ðŸ‘

Cass

Ring the FPU. Thats what they're there for. Highlight the delays in the re-applications, the fact you have your re-applications in within the 3 month period but your licenses are expiring before they complete them, the time frame on average it's taking them to do your forms, etc.

As for the Super. Mine holds meetings every Wednesday. He is actually pretty good that way and a sight bit better than his predecessor. Same with the Chef Super. Stern, but a very fair man and knows his stuff.

g00167015 wrote: »

Sure they always said that Portlaoise residents were all top blokes, eh ðŸ‘

In this case top woman as my FO is a lady. The fact she done mine in 4 days she is a fecking genius as far as i'm concerned. This is considering my "local" had mine for 6 weeks and never so much as dotted an i.

g00167015

Cass wrote: »

Ring the FPU. Thats what they're there for. Highlight the delays in the re-applications, the fact you have your re-applications in within the 3 month period but your licenses are expiring before they complete them, the time frame on average it's taking them to do your forms, etc.

As for the Super. Mine holds meetings every Wednesday. He is actually pretty good that way and a sight bit better than his predecessor. Same with the Chef Super. Stern, but a very fair man and knows his stuff.

In this case top woman as my FO is a lady. The fact she done mine in 4 days she is a fecking genius as far as i'm concerned. This is considering my "local" had mine for 6 weeks and never so much as dotted an i.

The FPU will only get an earfull of frivolous excuses the same as I would, going from experience. Our area is run by the district clerk, a garda, it appears and not the Superintendant.

By the way, hope that the o.p. gets his renewal in time :-) Sorry for semi-hijacking the thread on you hehe

Cass

g00167015 wrote: »

The FPU will only get an earfull of frivolous excuses the same as I would, going from experience. Our area is run by the district clerk, a garda, it appears and not the Superintendant.

But not ringing them only closes off another avenue for you to get sorted so RING THEM.

BTW all re-applications, applications, subs, etc are all processed by a Garda Clerk, and he Super just signs off on them. But the Super is involved. It's illegal for a Super not to be.

eoin.d

Still no sign of my licence coming. I have previously gotten licence for new rifle in a shorter time.

Cass

Straight onto the FPU. Ask them to check why the license, which you have previously been told was issued then re-issued, has not arrived. Explain yo re nervous of where these licenses are going if they are being printed and annoyed that you have not gotten yours to legally use your rifle.

Firm, but polite.

g00167015

Cass, were you an Agony Aunt in a former life? LOL

Only messing :-)

NicholasF

eoin.d wrote: »

Sent in renewal application for. 22, got grant letter after 10 days and paid 80 euro. It's two weeks now and still no licence. Rang guards and they said nothing to do with them anymore, I rang the phone number on top of grant letter and they said ring guards. is there anyone else I can ring to find out what the delay is? I seem to remember a helpful place in Dublin I rang couple of years back but I can't remember who they were

Hi Eoin
I would write a letter followed by a phone call to your local Chief Superintendent's office, there the buck stops. They will usually oblige and be able to find out where the hold up is, the station where the Chief Superintendent is located will also have a firearms officer who look after all the licensing.
If I can be of any help just ask
I have found them to be very helpful in the past
Nicholas

Cass

g00167015 wrote: »

Cass, were you an Agony Aunt in a former life? LOL

Only messing :-)

Feels like it at times.

NicholasF wrote: »

Hi Eoin
I would write a letter followed by a phone call to your local Chief Superintendent's office,.............

Chief Supers don't process or involve themselves with unrestricted licenses. It's a the Super he needs to contact. As above i'd try the FPU first as the OP has already dealt with them. They can give him all the same info his FO can.

Any attempted contact with his Super will result in speaking to a clerk of even the FO first, and if he somehow managed to get directly through to the Super (never going to happen) the Super will delegate it back down to his/her clerk and/or FO.

NicholasF

Cass wrote: »

Feels like it at times.

Chief Supers don't process or involve themselves with unrestricted licenses. It's a the Super he needs to contact. As above i'd try the FPU first as the OP has already dealt with them. They can give him all the same info his FO can.

Any attempted contact with his Super will result in speaking to a clerk of even the FO first, and if he somehow managed to get directly through to the Super (never going to happen) the Super will delegate it back down to his/her clerk and/or FO.

My experience is that the Chief Super does involve him self in licensing, and more importantly is involved in the working of stations under his remit.
I stand corrected if you are a member of An Garda Siochana and are involved in the processing of licences for firearms.
Thanks for the update

Cass

NicholasF wrote: »

My experience is that the Chief Super does involve him self in licensing,

Of course he does, for restricted licenses among other topics that fall under his purview.

However there is a reason that Supers have the legal responsibility for issuing unrestricted licenses. They don't have to concern themselves with the issues that Chief Supers have to. IOW the chain of command is there for a reason. The appropriate person for the appropriate issue.

Plus with my last two restricted licenses the Chief Super made a point of clarifying that they were in fact restricted as he only deals with such applications and if they were unrestricted he would refer them, and me, to the Super who would deal with them from there.

I know different stations/districts deal with things differently but to me there is a clear cut process and from this and numerous other dealings over the years i've found it has never changed.

and more importantly is involved in the working of stations under his remit.

Well that goes without saying. A chief Super has numerous functions and stations to control. Firearms would only make up a small part of his duties hence the reason Supers deal with all unrestricted licenses as they make up the vast majority of applications and so the Cs is not spending all his time dealing with firearm issues/licenses/applications.


BTW, i'm not arguing with you (at all) and not simply just to be argumentative. However as i've outlined above there is a process for these things and it works. There is no need to go over the head of the Super or even the FO for that matter when a CS will only bump it back down to the Super to be dealt with. Give each step of the process it's due respect and time. If one step fails then you move onto the next one.

Sparks

NicholasF wrote: »

My experience is that the Chief Super does involve him self in licensing, and more importantly is involved in the working of stations under his remit.
I stand corrected if you are a member of An Garda Siochana and are involved in the processing of licences for firearms.
Thanks for the update

If your chief super was involving himself in unrestricted licencing to the point where he was giving orders to a Superintendent in regard to decisionmaking, he was breaking the law. Up until '09, he had no legal authority to do so (and was legally prohibited from doing so).

And you ought to know better than to be saying that Gardai are the final authority on the law surrounding firearms licencing They implement it; they don't write it or decide on it. There's been a little bit of fuss in the last decade or two on that point Nicholas, you might remember it...

NicholasF

Sparks wrote: »

If your chief super was involving himself in unrestricted licencing to the point where he was giving orders to a Superintendent in regard to decisionmaking, he was breaking the law. Up until '09, he had no legal authority to do so (and was legally prohibited from doing so).

And you ought to know better than to be saying that Gardai are the final authority on the law surrounding firearms licencing They implement it; they don't write it or decide on it. There's been a little bit of fuss in the last decade or two on that point Nicholas, you might remember it...

Well said, and I stand corrected, that is the case today, the joy of living in a democratic society
Thanks :-))

eoin.d

Just got a call from home saying my licence had arrived. At last! Amount of ammo I can have has been reduced from 500 to 100, rang fo in local station and asked why and explaind why I had previously looked for that amount. He said they were lowering limit because I was just using rifle for vermin and hunting. What a load of s##t

Cass

Sweet. A bit late but better than not at all.

As for the ammo amount. They are sticking fairly rigidly to the commissioner's guidelines which says:

• Farmer (one shotgun for vermin/pest control) – 100 rounds.
• Deer Gun – 200 to 260 rounds.
• Shotgun for clay pigeon, pheasant/pigeon/woodcock – 500 to 750 rounds.
• Target Shooter (member of authorised club) – 750 to 1,000 rounds.

However it also says that these are a recommended MINIMUM amount for the purpose the person is seeking the gun and that a higher amount may be granted should the applicant give a meritorious reason as to why they need more.

I generally use the following when submitting mine (on a separate piece of paper):

Re: Section 4.1 - I request the maximum rounds of ammunition on my license be increased to (insert amount) for the following reasons:

• Empty (fired) casings are treated the same as live rounds as per the Firearms Act, 1925 where it states that "ammunition for a firearm is any ingredient or component part of any such ammunition", with component part being the bullet, the casing, the propellant or the primer. So my license must allow me to have a high enough limit to have both live and fired rounds in my possession. 100 rounds would only allow me to have two full boxes of live ammunition. It would also prevent me from holding nay spent brass for the reasons outlined above.
• I regularly take part in target competitions and actively attend target ranges for practice. As a result of this I can go through a large quantity of rounds in a short period of time.
• Buying bulk amount of ammunition to reduce trips to the RFD and for cost implications.
• Buying in bulk also guarantees i can buy batches of ammunition which work best in my firearm.
• Reducing excessive trips to my local RFD. With a 100 round limit i can only hold 2 boxes of unfired/live rounds. This would require a trip to my RFD at least twice a week to buy more while all the while not allowing me to have any spent brass at the same time.

For these reasons I hope you can grant my request to increase the limit of ammunition to allow me to stay within the conditions of my licence.



Give it a try, but if you mention competitions you must be able to show yo shoot in open comps or are a member of a range.

eoin.d

When I handed in licence renewal application fo asked me about ammo amount.I gave him all the reasons you stated Cass except for competitions, he said that would be no problem what so ever. Now he has a problem! Glad to get licence so think I will just leave it. I have a limit of 800 on another. 22 licence so I will be OK for buying. Thanks for all the advise lads

g00167015

Cass wrote: »

Feels like it at times.

FPU rang station, they told the person from FPU they had contacted me about the app, that was about five weeks ago and nothing since. App was signed for at district office at 10.04am on the 3rd of June.................

If this nonsense is acceptable I'm Elvis Presley. There have already been criminal breaches of my data protection rights by persons at that station so I struggle to think what I'll do. Seemingly our new Superintendant is not available for meetings without eight weeks notice, or at least that is what the clerk, also a garda, would have you believe.

New app is for a 204. Incidentally I lost two ewes last week to fox predation, plus the topography out where the offending foxes have their den doesn't lend to using the HMR, unless I erect a high seat or drop a mini container out there with the tractor. Have had to ask a farmer from a neighbouring village to set about getting them sorted.

Anyways the cost of paying the company who brought the carcasses away for disposal would have gotten a nice few cartridges instead.

If nothing else, surely these needless delays and lax attitude of AGS in doing basic processing of applications is extremely unfair on the retailers/RFDs who seemingly must be expected to have limitless shelf space for items which he can't actually sell due to them being under deposit.

So basically, the FPU in this instance was not very helpful unfortunately.

I'll be meeting the Super at 7:30 monday morning when he arrives in for work seeing as the ill mannered lady at the clerk's desk refuses to make appointments at any other time. Hopefully then can find out what in God's name is going on here.

Cass

Only option now is a letter to Super, directly to him/her, and/or a visit to brief. Perhaps a call to you NGB if you're associated to one.

g00167015

Cass wrote: »

Only option now is a letter to Super, directly to him/her, and/or a visit to brief. Perhaps a call to you NGB if you're associated to one.

If I write directly to the super I will get a reply from the clerk without him having seen it, unfortunately speaking from experience. God I'd hate if we were in a part of the country where the police actually had an excuse for being busy instead of the back arse of nowhere :-)

cw67irl

If your super doesn't reply to a letter why not send a registered one, that normally does the trick!

g00167015

cw67irl wrote: »

If your super doesn't reply to a letter why not send a registered one, that normally does the trick!

Not around here unfortunately.

I've met him this morning and he says the decision notice had gone out in the post earlier this morn, seemingly they were waiting on doctor's correspondence back. His approach seems maybe to cross the t and dot the i on fca apllications a bit more so than might be completely necessary in the eyes of different superintendents.

However I got the impression of a poor attitude towards sporting firearms etc by this newly appointed superintendant, even hinting at policies he might take with licencing that have no legislative basis, irrespective of a person having fulfilled all of the criteria regards character, good and proper reason, safe use and secure storage etc. I got the impression that he believes there is a legal prohibition on persons having greater than three licences granted to them.

Also, he seemed to suggest that 'all he was getting' (from AGS) was to reduce firearms, reduce firearms, reduce firearms......... That is a policy which AGS are not, as yet, legally entitled to hold. Each application is distinct and seperate and must be evaluated thusly as per the law, not fairytale policies from Pheonix Park.

He seemed reluctant to even be polite enough to shake hands on leaving (nearly had to grab the poor fellas arm and get his hand lol) and seemed to have a sort of holier than thou attitude, suggesting why I didn't use a garda as a point of contact trying to find out what the farcical delays were.

Silently in my own mind, I wasn't able to recall any part of the Garda Siochana Act which puts Superintendants on a pedestal not accessible to mere law abiding members of the public. He would have better success on putting this notion forward if he at least had the respect to wear his uniform to work as he looked a bit like someone who slept outside in the shed a few nights with the creased old clothes :-/

An independant and properly-administered licencing process can't come quickly enough. The amount of needless frustration, legal expense and malpractice of certain AGS members all over the country since the current system came in is way too much and wouldn't be accepted in any other of our public services.

My €0.02 :-)

(Jeez if you add up all the two cents, that's a nice couple of euro to be spending ha) lol