Sex stopped? At my age? For the rest of my life?

LegacyUser

suicide_circus wrote: »

Christ this thread is scary. So many replies of people in the same boat.How does one avoid this?

I think it is as simple as people falling out of love. In a relationship without children the couple will more than likely split up but it's harder when you have kids.

The difference between men and women is that women usually won't want sex with their partner or husband if they are no longer in love....whereas men often still will. I don't think that makes the woman the bad guy but it seems many people do seem to think that.

As for why couples fall out of love well I think a major problem is lack of communication and understanding. I think couples let issues build up without sorting them out properly and this leads to resentment that can be too hard to come back from if left for too long.

I use another forum and I notice a pattern on there all the time between couples with youn families, now these stories are always told from the womans side but likewise these stories about lack of sex are often told from the mans side.

Anyway a major issue seems to be about the man not pulling his weight at home....even if his wife or partner is also working. This leads to a lot of resentment and the woman pulling away from the man, he pulls away from her too because he sees her as nagging whereas she sees it as just reminding. I think what people should remember is that as much as men hate being 'nagged' i'm sure the vast majority of women hate having to actually keep going on and on about something, they don't like being turned into a nag!!

This type of behaviour can be very bad for relationships because I think the man can often feel emasculated because of the way the woman speaks to him but she will often feel very unloved and taken for granted too...very bad combination I think especially if the behaviour goes on for years which it often will when children are young.

I think if any resentments are left to fester for a long time without being resolved and sex rarely happens as a result then it is often hard for the woman to have sex with her partner as she doesn't see him in that way anymore and it can often feel like a brother/sister relationship. She doesn't desire him in that way...again I don't think that that makes her the bad guy.

I think another big part of why this kind of thing happens is because we don't really take steps to look after our mental health, if we're stressed we take it out on those closest to us and it takes it's toll on our relationship and while outsiders often see the best version of that person while the closest person to them sees all the bad bits.

LegacyUser

I would like to add my experience. We have three young kids. The youngest is nearly three so we are busy. We both work and I do my share. We get on well and are reasonably happy. When it comes to sex it's not happening.

We have spoke a bit about it, but my wife says she is tired and that we need to spend more time together (I work in the evenings after the kids go to bed). I always initiate sex and most times she will just pretend to be asleep. When she does make an effort (minimal) she is clearly not interested. This is turn just kills my interest. Who wants to force themselves on someone?

I'm not sure of a solution tbh. I love my kids so divorce is off the cards. Not sure about the whole affair thing. Maybe just to get on with things. Connect with friends.

keane2097

needsmust wrote: »

I'm really not sure how much we realise that hormones are pretty much responsible for this in addition to modern lifestyles that enable women to say no more sex. While I applaud the fact that women can be brave enough to admit it and not tolerate unwanted sex with their husbands, it's a pretty messed up scenario that they also see no need to address the matter. I referenced my own experience earlier in the thread and its there to take whatever a man wants to take from it.

Between the OP and the post above, along with other similar posts, I think this is a thread that can be different to similar threads because actual experiences are being referenced. Not that it solves anything, but it is highlighting a massive issue and discussion can hopefully deliver some conclusions and potential solutions.

My own solution was to have sex with someone else after my wife said she wouldnt blame me. This lead to jealousy and a very awkward situation when my wife tried to seduce me while I was actively having sex with someone else and I rejected her. It worked for us eventually and thankfully we are on the road to somewhere instead of nowhere. But it did involve a Doctor and lots of treatment, understanding and support. If we take the lack of love and affair scenario out of a womans disinterest in sex, straight out of the equation, we are back to basics. Those basics are hormones and those hormones can be fixed. But the biggest problem is the outright refusal of women to NOT think its a problem. This is wrong on so many levels. It's very prevelant these days hence these threads and posts.

I have a theory, but I'm not so sure I could express it here without causing chaos.

Cool thread and sad thread at the same time. Hopefully we can achieve some sort of solution/assurance for contributors.

Interesting post.

I would think the advice of investigating possible hormonal issues is far more useful and dare I say grown up than the "she's not giving you the ride so stop giving her money" stuff, which seems pretty creepy at best.

Emme

keane2097 wrote: »

Interesting post.

I would think the advice of investigating possible hormonal issues is far more useful and dare I say grown up than the "she's not giving you the ride so stop giving her money" stuff, which seems pretty creepy at best.

The OP's wife doesn't see any problems with not wanting sex. He will have to convince her to go to the doctor to get her hormones checked. He can't make her go if she doesn't want to. He didn't say anything about his wife's energy levels but she's not doing very much to exert herself. If she was working she might notice a drop in her energy levels which could go unnoticed now. A drop in energy levels could indicate a hormonal/endocrine problem.

Is she sleeping more? Has she put on weight she can't lose? Is her hair falling out? All of this could indicate a hormonal/endocrine problem as well as a non-existent sex drive.

Hopefully she will realise how much it matters to him and get herself checked out.

Queen-Mise

same boat 98 wrote: »

As for getting sex elsewhere. She said go ahead and to be honest if the opportunity arises I'll take it with no sense of betrayal because I feel she is betraying our relationship. I don't want it elsewhere though. She is the woman I love.

I will never judge a man or woman for that matter who has an affair again.

I have tears in my eyes as I type this because I've never been able to express it to anyone before.

It's not even the lack of sex. It's the lack of intimacy. I realise now I shouuld never have married her and if the kids weren't here. I'd be gone.

The parts I have highlighted are the parts that destroy me. My husband is an absolute gem but the lack of intimacy is soul destroying.

Do I have to seriously think about having an affair? Is there a website for people in the same boat as me? This is wrecking my head.
I do not know what the fcuk to do.

We have spoken about it, made efforts and it has all gone backwards again. What are my options if I don't want to break up my marriage?

needsmust wrote: »

I have a theory, but I'm not so sure I could express it here without causing chaos.

I would love to hear your theory. Just preface the post stating that it is a theory. You may well be partly right or wrong with it. And that you are not stating it as fact.

Potatoeman

zeffabelli wrote: »

And what do you suggest he say, "put out or Im not paying for yoga?"

LOL...she'll respond with fine. Im on work to rule, take the kids with you to work then.

The sexual desert is usually created by TWO people.

No, he can say he is going to get it elsewhere and now that she has so much free time she can get a job and start supporting herself. Take sex out of a relationship and it's a friendship. Would you let a friend spunge off you and insist on celibacy?

zeffabelli

Potatoeman wrote: »

No, he can say he is going to get it elsewhere and now that she has so much free time she can get a job and start supporting herself. Take sex out of a relationship and it's a friendship. Would you let a friend spunge off you and insist on celibacy?

Ah ok...then he will mind the kids half the time and do half the house management?

Potatoeman

zeffabelli wrote: »

Ah ok...then he will mind the kids half the time and do half the house management?

Why not? Many schools offer minding services and many couples both work and manage just fine.

zeffabelli

Potatoeman wrote: »

Why not? Many schools offer minding services and many couples both work and manage just fine.

And many don't.

zeffabelli

keane2097 wrote: »

Interesting post.

I would think the advice of investigating possible hormonal issues is far more useful and dare I say grown up than the "she's not giving you the ride so stop giving her money" stuff, which seems pretty creepy at best.

Yes I think some of the responses here are pretty creepy alright. Stop paying for yoga, stop paying for things if she isn't putting out.

The latent belief system that deep down we are all prostitutes.

And frankly, if I were in her shoes and I was picking up on that subtext, I would start paying for everything, stop minding the kids, stop doing all the housework, become entirely autonomous and then if he wanted sex hand him the number of a prostitute.

Ann84

zeffabelli wrote: »

The latent belief system that deep down we are all prostitutes.

And frankly, if I were in her shoes and I was picking up on that subtext, I would start paying for everything, stop minding the kids, stop doing all the housework, become entirely autonomous and then if he wanted sex hand him the number of a prostitute.

I don't agree with this! If you give up your financial Independance to rely on someone else stuff gets really complicated!!!
Can't she just earn her own income and they can seperate happily - problem is that the wife is not financially Independant and the husbands here seem to feel trapped in a relationship with their wives because of this... Putting up with a situation they wouldn't tolerate in another circumstance! I personally think it's pretty awful to expect your partner to go sex free because I don't fancy it for whatever reason, I wouldn't expect him to stay and he would be able to because I don't rely on him!!

Separating where both parties are financially independent is a lot easier and therefore neither party feels trapped to stay - I see a lot of frustration coming from this on this thread and it's not right, I wouldn't want to stay married to a man if sex was off the table so why should it be different here... Money!!

zeffabelli

Ann84 wrote: »

I don't agree with this! If you give up your financial Independance to rely on someone else stuff gets really complicated!!!
Can't she just earn her own income and they can seperate happily - problem is that the wife is not financially Independant and the husbands here seem to feel trapped in a relationship with their wives because of this... Putting up with a situation they wouldn't tolerate in another circumstance! I personally think it's pretty awful to expect your partner to go sex free because I don't fancy it for whatever reason, I wouldn't expect him to stay and he would be able to because I don't rely on him!!

Separating where both parties are financially independent is a lot easier and therefore neither party feels trapped to stay - I see a lot of frustration coming from this on this thread and it's not right, I wouldn't want to stay married to a man if sex was off the table so why should it be different here... Money!!

I agree with you it is really complicated but if you frame it as Im really sexually frustrated, you owe me, Im not paying for yoga anymore..." your sending the subtext that you see your wife in prostitutional value.

You then create a paradigm that could easily backfire. We don't even know how OP feels about his wife...does he still love her or is she a nanny and a resource for sex?

Potatoeman

zeffabelli wrote: »

Yes I think some of the responses here are pretty creepy alright. Stop paying for yoga, stop paying for things if she isn't putting out.

The latent belief system that deep down we are all prostitutes.

And frankly, if I were in her shoes and I was picking up on that subtext, I would start paying for everything, stop minding the kids, stop doing all the housework, become entirely autonomous and then if he wanted sex hand him the number of a prostitute.

You have no issue with him being used as an ATM and being deeply unhappy?

If you only do half of the housework and childminding then you obviously must be paying half of all the bills.

LegacyUser

Potatoeman wrote: »

You have no issue with him being used as an ATM and being deeply unhappy?

If you only do half of the housework and childminding then you obviously must be paying half of all the bills.

How do you know the wife isn't deeply unhappy too? Are people assuming that because she has a couple of hobbies that she must be loving her life? The OP's opening line was that he and his wife don't really get on in general. I would imagine the vast majority of people in that situation are deeply unhappy. Who wants to have a relationship like that?

As for him being used as an ATM, at no point has he said that he has asked her to financially contribute and that she has refused, of course she could offer to try to look for a part time job and maybe she does keep an eye out but she may not be able to find something that suits the hours that the kids are in school.

He said that she's a good mother, we have no reason to think that she doesn't think that he's also a wonderful father and thinks it's good for the children that they stay in this marriage even if they are both unhappy, we do not know enough about this woman to assume that she is just staying in the marriage because she's financially secure within it.

Kenny B

Potatoeman wrote: »

You have no issue with him being used as an ATM and being deeply unhappy?

If you only do half of the housework and childminding then you obviously must be paying half of all the bills.

Many years ago they entered into a contact of sorts, withholding money for a lack of sex is nonsense, withholding money and withdrawing from the relationship is a different thing altogether.

blue note

guest 2015 wrote: »

It sounds unromantic but we actually agreed set evenings that we called ‘sex-dates’. When the kids were in bed we’d have a nice meal, a couple of glasses of wine, massages, and sex (yeah!).
We eventually started to reconnect sexually, and our sex lives started to return to normal. Not bragging, but we probably have better sex now than we ever did and we’re married over 11years and together for almost 20.

I guess my point is that there eventually comes a stage where you need to sit down and address the issue and agree to solve it together – if one of the parties isn’t willing to do this then it’s not going to work.

This is about the most constructive thing I've read in the thread, but you need the woman to be willing to deal with the issue properly. Very often (including in a relationship I was in) bringing up the issue results in a heavily defensive response - maybe if you did more housework, made more of an effort to be romantic, etc, etc, etc that there would be more sex. A lot of suggestions that take any of the blame off the woman and essentially push dealing with the problem down the road.

Whereas, what you're suggesting - a date night, starting with a massage or whatever often will result in sex that the woman will enjoy too. In my experience, when we finally did have sex she tended to enjoy it (well she was only human:)). And once you start having sex again it will probably result in a healthier relationship all round.

However, and it's a big however, she has to be willing to deal with the problem with more than paying it lip service.

dudara

Posters - this is not a forum for you to have a back and forth conversation between yourselves. You can do that via PM. If you are not offering advice to the OP, then please don't post.

dudara

LegacyUser

There was a time when my ex could have wrote one of these posts but what he would have left out was that he had an alcohol abuse problem which could see him disappearing for a weekend or else coming back and being verbally abusive or coming back and vomiting and falling asleep on the toilet which was deeply unattractive.

My anxiety levels were through the roof waiting for him to go missing again. I would dread the weekends or his holidays from work.

For a long time he had me convinced it was my fault he went out drinking like that due to a lack of a sex life but eventually I realised that that wasn't true because he had abused alcohol even before we were together.

There were times he would abuse alcohol and I'd make a real effort with sex thinking he'd cop on and we could have great loving sex and then he'd go binge drinking the next day and leave me feeling worthless again.

Despite those issues we got on great most of the time and I knew the lack of sex affected him and I would desperately want to be close to him at times but I had a big wall up because I would associate getting intimate with him with being more hurt when he would break his promises in relation to alcohol again.

I actually hated seeing him upset about not having sex and I hated that I felt like I couldn't have it either but as I said his actions in the relationship caused my reaction. It was never about punishing him or withholding it or being selfish, I mentally couldn't put myself in a position to be more hurt and the more intimate we were the more I would be hurt.

There was a time he was convinced it was all my fault although eventually he realised it wasn't but if he had came on here at the time then people might have made a lot of assumptions about me that simply weren't true. My point is that we just don't know the other side to these stories.

He told me on 2 different occasions that he'd been with other women which he said he said to try to get me to have sex with him, I do actually believe that he didn't sleep with them.....and then we'd have sex and things would be going great and he'd go on massive benders again, it was very traumatic to be convinced it was all my fault, to believe it, try to take steps to address it and then to have him sabotage it. Anyway that's just a story from the other side.

Potatoeman

Her being financially independant might be the best thing for both of you if things get worse. If the marriage fails at least she will have a job and she wont be completely dependant on you.

LegacyUser

Potatoeman wrote: »

Her being financially independant might be the best thing for both of you if things get worse. If the marriage fails at least she will have a job and she wont be completely dependant on you.

It's definitely a conversation that needs to be had. If ultimatums are going to be issued in regards to sex etc. then I certainly think he should explain to her that he doesn't think the situation is sustainable long term and he will not be able to stay in a sexless mariage long term so she should really start the process of trying to become more financially independent.

I would imagine the amount of women (in sexless marriages) willing to put up with their husband going out and having sex with another woman would be actually quite small so if he goes down that route the marriage is more than likely going to end anyway.

Wouldn't she be able to go for divorce on grounds of adultery then? I'm not sure how divorce works in Ireland....would the courts be more likely to be more favourable to her if he committed adultery?

a.non.i.mouse

Going anon for this reply as I have never told some people the full story behind all this - I was in the same situation for many years.

With the benefit of hindsight, I got married far to young, I was 23 and so was my wife. The warning signs were there from the beginning but I ignored them as I loved her.

She was almost afraid of sex, she came from a quite religious family and I think it was this subtle catholic brainwashing that it all came from. There was certainly no sex before we got married – intimacy and affection yes, but no sex.

I told myself it would get better after we were married. It didn't. I tried patience, I tried talking about it, I tried everything, it never improved. We did have very infrequent sex, and when we did she did say she enjoyed it, but she was always extremely passive. I hoped that one day it would open the floodgates but it never did – she just didn't have a libido that needed satisfying and once our son was born that was pretty much the end of the show.

Suddenly I realised 10 years had gone by. I was overweight, drinking too much and pretty miserable most of the time. My wife started talking about having another child (would have needed having sex for the first time in years) and I came to a decision – it was not going to improve, I was kidding myself thinking it was. At 33 I was faced with looking elsewhere for sex, putting up with the situation the way it was, or doing something more proactive. I decided I couldn't face a life of pretending everything was ok so I left. We separated.

A while later I ended up in a relationship with a woman who had no hangups about sex or talking about it. It was like a breath of fresh air. We had/have a great sex life. We are married now and have 3 young kids.

Do we still have sex? Yes - not as often as before the kids were born but we both want it, need it, realise it is a vitally important part of a healthy relationship. Are there nights when we are just too tired? Of course, but intimacy is still there, and physical contact and affection is sometimes all you need.

I've never put all this down before but I guess the message I am trying to put out is that you don't have to accept that it's all over. At many times it wasn't an easy road. Leaving my first son was heart wrenching (I still have a very good relationship with him, he sees his 'new' siblings often and gets on well with them despite the age difference).

I'm not saying this is the solution for you or anyone else, but I cannot say I regret the decision to leave in any way, it was the right solution for me.

Dial Hard

leafheart wrote:

Wouldn't she be able to go for divorce on grounds of adultery then? I'm not sure how divorce works in Ireland....would the courts be more likely to be more favourable to her if he committed adultery?

Nope. All divorces in Ireland are considered "no fault".

zephyro

OP I suggest you tell her in a calm manner that if she's not interested, you'll look for someone else who is. Make sure you tell her this first (and note the date in writing) so she can't claim you went behind her back if it comes up later!

In general, given that the male sex drive is much stronger than the female and also we aren't designed for monogamy anyway, it's pretty strange men don't appreciate that promising long-term monogamy to a woman is very likely a recipe for an infrequent-to-nonexistent sex life.

Sleepy

OP, unless finances aren't a problem for you at all, I'd suggest addressing the issue of her not pulling her weight financially before making any ultimatums about going elsewhere for sex if she won't join you in counselling / see a doctor about her lack of libido. As it stands, the only input she has on the income side of the income / expenditure breakdown is the children's allowance she receives.

If you separate, you'll be expected to maintain this situation so you'll be paying all your current bills on top of your new ones (rent / mortgage on a new place, utility bills etc.). Can you afford to do that?

It may make no sense for her to work full-time if childcare costs come to more than the additional income (less the tax credits you'll lose for no longer being a single-income married couple) but surely she can find some part-time work? My own wife does childminding a few days a week as it's a pretty tax-efficient means of bringing in an extra income that doesn't require us to arrange for childcare for our own kids. Might something like that be an option for her?

LegacyUser

Right now I am in a bad phase. She walks in, I walk out. She looks at me, I look away. I have moved into the downstairs room over a year ago, at the time I told her I will not continue with this grotesque Ernie and Bert relationship. I now spend most of my time in my room, I avoid her whenever possible. We have tried to patch this up and everything works great, we go away on weekend breaks, we have fun, we get on, we do things, I put in an effort and then she says "I'm tired, I just want to go to sleep". So afterwards back to my room I go and back to ignoring her.
I can feel the bitterness and resentment as physical sensations, it feels like my body is being poisoned.
Why don't I move out? I can't! My salary just about covers the mortgage, the cars, the shopping and maybe going to the beach every now and then with her (grrr) and the dogs (yay!).
I don't have 8-900 extra a month to also rent an apartment. And however bad things get I will REFUSE to move into some grubby student houseshare or worse even, renting a room of some family, I'll plough my car into a tree before I do that. Besides I can't even afford that.
We need to sell the house and split the money and go our separate ways. She has already talked about our next house together, I actually feel like strangling the bitch when she says that, has she not listened to what I have been saying to her for the last 10 years? Screaming sometimes? I am living with a demon who is sucking the lifeforce out of me.
She then says "of course, right so, move out then, but I expect you to call your solicitor and sign the house over to me and by the way, you'll still owe the mortgage". Needless to say I should also cover the legal costs. The absolute screamer and knee-slapper is, I can't even do that! The bank would not allow her to take over the mortgage, because she has no jobs and no means to cover the mortgage.
I need to talk to a solicitor to force the sale of the house and if anyone has any suggestions who else to talk to, I would be very, very grateful. She has previously mentioned about me abandoning her and how could I do it and do I want her ending up living on the street with the dogs, etc...
She then says "so you are willing to throw away our relationship over sex". I then simply quote the exact same sentence back to her. Of course then I am selfish and only out for my own gratification.
What really gets me is the sh*te she looks up on the internet. Alien abduction. The Bilderbergs, the Rothschields, the Illuminati, the grey aliens, the reptilians, the angel cards, the unicorns and all that is just some of the saner stuff, you want to see the really out there, whacked out stuff she looks up.
And I notice she will let me get away with absolutely anything, she will do anything for me, all because she knows that without me she is utterly screwed. I can ignore her, not talk to her, she will pretend to be happy and that everything is hunky dory. Even when she flips (gives me a tiny bit of grim satisfaction), she will be back to pretend happy and smiling in a short time. I guess to annoy me, to show me that she can get to me but I can't get to her, but I know I can and I do. Soon there will be nothing left in our relationship but spite and malice. In a way it's more honest than what's happening now. Me ignoring her and her pretending all is well.
I think I should start going out without her, meeting friends and maybe more, any thoughts on that?

One add on:
One poster above mentioned the guy having a drinking problem. Of course that doesn't work. If one of the parties in the relationship has a substance abuse problem, it cannot work. But it definitely doesn't apply in my case, I drink little to no alcohol. I don't even smoke.
So, no sex, no drugs, no alcohol, there are priests that have a more hectic and active social and sex life than me.

Saipanne

I can offer one suggestion, which is meetup.com.

Great way to socialise.

arayess

Not Me wrote: »

She then says "so you are willing to throw away our relationship over sex". I then simply quote the exact same sentence back to her. Of course then I am selfish and only out for my own gratification.

think you need to be honest with her and say "yes"
no relationship is worth the feelings you've just put on paper.
if she isn't willing to make the effort she doesn't love you enough . its' that simple
I think she is comfortable and has a nice existance and is content in her own selfish behaviour.

You need for your own sanity to get out of there , let her fend for herself , the judge will make her do this anyway. You will be surprised how much cash you will have paying for 1 rather than 2.
Or go get sex on the side , go party .

LegacyUser

Op best thing to do would be to talk to a solicitor. Is it just the two of you or do you have kids?

Ann84

I have no idea why you'd suggest suicide to being free of your current living arrangement...
Honestly, I'd rather live in a dingy flat or house share over what you describe any day!
Why can't she move out? You pay the mortgage - tell her to get a job, your sick of supporting her and your not funding one single non-essential until she gets an income.
And yes, start going out without her, you are no longer a couple

daisybelle2008

Not Me, I don't understand why you haven't spoke to a solicitor. You have no children, selling the house, splitting the difference and going your separate ways is what will happen.
Once the assets are split you both fend for yourselves (move back home, get a job whatever). Your relationship has a very strange dynamic, you are only encouraging her dependency. You maybe need to be more honest with yourself, you actually appear to hate her, you say that there is nothing but spite and malice, sex really isn't the issue here, you seem to be totally unsuited at every possible level. Having sex would only be papering over the cracks. Maybe you are holding on to the idea that would fix everything but maybe the level of dysfunction runs a lot deeper than that and you need to let go and make the move to separate.