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Sex stopped? At my age? For the rest of my life?
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AnonThisTime wrote: »Thanks guys for all your posts & time above.
Interesting reading & sad reading some of it. The ultimatum will come up in coversation all right - but I don't think it will come out as it did for 2 of the posters above. Might as well throw it into the conversation though.
I probably sound as though I'm walking on eggshells, but really since we had our chat & I could see she just isn't bothered ot interested and I then never put her under any pressure things are a lot calmer at home. Of course I have to keep all this in & things stay calm - but I can see I can't just leave it like this. It's driving me nuts.
I guess I have a big fear of whats likely to happen - probably ending the whole thing & the difficulties this brings - but I can see this can't continue
Ultimatum? Read your posts again.. She just gave you a clear indication of where you stand when she selfishly decided sex ain't happening. Ultimatum is a terrible idea.
The fact she prefers to do her own thing says it all really. Shes just in this for convenience, it's not even a friendship never mind a relationship . she knows her life is not going to be upheaval should the situation change and probably senses your fear and reluctance to rock the boat too hence the arrogant dismissal of sex. So this works for her. your ultimatum will be met with, if you don't like it see ya.
Second post had it right. Start enjoying yourself. make time for it.Have fun. Do new things. Rub one out. Get out of the house. Spend time with kids. Do this and the rest will fall into place.0 -
It may also be advisable to look into financial planning prior to kicking off anything that could lead to a separation e.g. had you been planning to change the car in the next 6 months, it may be advisable to do that earlier so the loan payments are taken into account in your statement of means.0
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It may also be advisable to look into financial planning prior to kicking off anything that could lead to a separation e.g. had you been planning to change the car in the next 6 months, it may be advisable to do that earlier so the loan payments are taken into account in your statement of means.
You know every woman reading this is now going to have an internal freak out if they see their husbands buying a new car. :P0 -
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I expected to be lynched for the post tbh. While I wouldn't condone the "regular cash withdrawals" stuff you hear recommended for main earners about to go through a divorce, I think anyone would be a fool to trust to the courts to equitably divide assets and, were I in the position, would be ensuring I wasn't going to leave myself unable to enjoy the couple of days a week I got to see my kids.zeffabelli wrote: »You know every woman reading this is now going to have an internal freak out if they see their husbands buying a new car. :P0 -
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I expected to be lynched for the post tbh. While I wouldn't condone the "regular cash withdrawals" stuff you hear recommended for main earners about to go through a divorce, I think anyone would be a fool to trust to the courts to equitably divide assets and, were I in the position, would be ensuring I wasn't going to leave myself unable to enjoy the couple of days a week I got to see my kids.
Court always burns at least one party, usually both. I think its putting the carriage before the horse at this stage....
It's wiser to not think so catastrophically so early.0 -
Leaving makes no sense, living with another person requires respect from both people though.
Does she respect you, your feelings and your future, Will she respect you if you choose sex from another source.
It's always good to talk to yourself but if you do it long enough you convince yourself you're right and will act accordingly.
Bull by the horns and have it out with her, she needs to know a solution is needed - preferably with her 1st and if not she has to be ok with the someone else part because you can't do anymore for her and still want a sex life.0 -
Op, do you love your wife? Are you in love with her? You haven't mentioned anything like that in your posts from what i've seen0
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AnonThisTime wrote: »Well it comes from the same pot - I pay for everything - but it's her money too really - I'm working & she's parenting. I don't mind that so much if we can afford it, but the kids are in school so she has a couple of hobbies during schooltime & that's great.
I just can't understand that I see what I think is a great life she has - but the lack of effort in the relationship risks it all.
She has changed the rules of your marriage maybe it's time for you to. Why are you funding her lifestyle?0 -
Potatoeman wrote: »She has changed the rules of your marriage maybe it's time for you to. Why are you funding her lifestyle?
Nail on the head. Op your wife is suiting herself, its time for you to do the same thing. Theres a book By Dr. Robert Glover called No more Mr. Nice guy. You need to read it, as a matter urgency.0 -
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Potatoeman wrote: »She has changed the rules of your marriage maybe it's time for you to. Why are you funding her lifestyle?
And what do you suggest he say, "put out or Im not paying for yoga?"
LOL...she'll respond with fine. Im on work to rule, take the kids with you to work then.
The sexual desert is usually created by TWO people.0 -
zeffabelli wrote: »And what do you suggest he say, "put out or Im not paying for yoga?"
He doesn't have to put it that way. He can say "I'm cutting back work hours for a while so we will all have to tighten our belts for a while. That means you might have to choose between yoga and painting for a bit. Would it be possible for you to find a part-time job because the children are older now and don't need full-time care." The latter applies if the children are older and don't need full-time care anymore.0 -
He doesn't have to put it that way. He can say "I'm cutting back work hours for a while so we will all have to tighten our belts for a while. That means you might have to choose between yoga and painting for a bit. Would it be possible for you to find a part-time job because the children are older now and don't need full-time care." The latter applies if the children are older and don't need full-time care anymore.
But this is not about working part time. This is about the eros and lack of it.
You are not going to get anywhere with obfscating games. Immature.
Sex is adult. Be an adult.
Im not really understanding how getting a part time job will increase her desire for him?0 -
I'm in almost the same situation except that we still get on and to be honest love each other. Seven years ago we had our second child and that was it. We never made love again. Had sex yes once or twice a year. Not this year though. Like the OP I gave up. She doesn't even respond to cuddles anymore.
She was honest about it early on . She'd lost interest. I said it was fine when she was ready I could wait. Only it never happened. The few times we had sex I felt like a rapist. Which ironically was a role play she enjoyed once. We had a wonderful sex life at one stage.
So I've stopped even trying. Over the years I tried discussing it. Suggesting counselling. Had rows. I drink too much now. Having gone from a near teetotaller to overdoing it. She simply won't address the issue. Otherwise we get on fine mostly. She is in fact a lovely woman generally. Kind to a fault but somehow oblivious to fact that I'm gradually falling apart. She's inclined to dismiss any issues I have. Her problem is she came from a repressed family with a strong Father figure and she seems to think men can't have problems.
I can't leave her. I've nowhere to go and in any case I've ended up as a stay at home Father. My kids are more important than anything.
As for getting sex elsewhere. She said go ahead and to be honest if the opportunity arises I'll take it with no sense of betrayal because I feel she is betraying our relationship. I don't want it elsewhere though. She is the woman I love.
I will never judge a man or woman for that matter who has an affair again.
I have tears in my eyes as I type this because I've never been able to express it to anyone before.
It's not even the lack of sex. It's the lack of intimacy. I realise now I shouuld never have married her and if the kids weren't here. I'd be gone.0 -
He doesn't have to put it that way. He can say "I'm cutting back work hours for a while so we will all have to tighten our belts for a while. That means you might have to choose between yoga and painting for a bit. Would it be possible for you to find a part-time job because the children are older now and don't need full-time care." The latter applies if the children are older and don't need full-time care anymore.
Are you missing what the problem actually is? He hasn't come on here complaining that his wife is spending the money he earns on hobbies and that she is refusing to contribute when he has asked her to.
His problem is a lack of a sex life.0 -
same boat 98 wrote: »I'm in almost the same situation except that we still get on and to be honest love each other. Seven years ago we had our second child and that was it. We never made love again. Had sex yes once or twice a year. Not this year though. Like the OP I gave up. She doesn't even respond to cuddles anymore...
Not going to lie, at lot of these posts are really hard to read.
Just as a man to another man, knock the drink on the head. You are probably lonely but are ignoring that feeling, and trying to dull it with drink is never a solution. I've had days when loneliness is almost a physical feeling in my lungs and it's hard to ignore. It's a terrible feeling and too many men are suffering in silence because we've never learned how to acknowledge it to ourselves, let alone to others.
My advice, for what it's worth, is to stop drinking, start exercising and make an effort every day to re-connect with old friends. Give an call to someone, meet the lads for a run, a cycle or a lunch. Alcohol doesn't have to be the social lubricant. See if you can get a 5 a side game going one night a week or something. I guarantee if you reach out to your friends you'll find many men who know how you feel.
When you re-build your faith in yourself, you can try and rebuild things with your wife.
Maybe I'm way off in this post btw, but eitherway, good luck.0 -
How many times in last 5 years have you had sex or has it always a grey area when she decided to give you sex . If you believe that this is the end of sex for you then does this also mean the end of a marriage because it is fair for you to think having sex is normal in a happy healthy marriage, if she thinks you can stay married and you okay with not having sex and you agree then fine but if not you need to sort this out asap . Make yourself happy you only get one life and stop wasting your time on someone who does not have the feelings and desires that you have .
You don't have to be nasty to her but I feel you need to start minding yourself and start making a new life .There are many guys in similar position so you guys may need to go to mediation if you are sure marriage has no chance .
Best of luck0 -
Are you missing what the problem actually is? He hasn't come on here complaining that his wife is spending the money he earns on hobbies and that she is refusing to contribute when he has asked her to.
His problem is a lack of a sex life.
He's spoiling her rotten and getting nowhere. If they split he'll be expected to spoil her rotten as well. If she is less financially dependent on him this might not happen. Also if she's getting off her backside and making a financial contribution she might appreciate him more. She is sheltered now, if she were out in the world working and talking to other women she might realise how good her husband is and work harder to hold onto him.
I notice only the OP went to counselling, not his wife. I suggest they go for marriage counselling together. The OP should let his wife know he is unhappy about their nonexistent sex life and ask is she willing to go to counselling to discuss it. Does she know how important sex is to him?
Many women get a rude awakening when their marriages end (on their instigation) and they hit the dating scene. More than a few of them would have stayed with their husbands if they knew what was ahead of them. It's too late when they realise that they loved their husbands after all and in many cases the ex-husband is too broken hearted to commit emotionally to a new relationship even though he may have more sexual opportunities than he ever had.0 -
Christ this thread is scary. So many replies of people in the same boat.How does one avoid this?
OP this is not a marriage anymore. Get on to a solicitor.0 -
suicide_circus wrote: »How does one avoid this?
Good question. As far as avoiding it, seems to be the luck of the draw with marriage kind of thing. Awful. (Although I do blame a lot on the subtle, wider-societal brain programming done since childhood, of "sex is baaaaad".)
The crux of the problem lies with the apparent sanctity of marriage, and the bias of the courts towards the primary carer in case of divorce. Both of these facts mean that, once the ring is on the finger, the woman acquires a huge leverage in the relationship, on the basis of which she is able to indulge any selfish tendencies and suit herself, with little consequence to herself, either socially or financially.
As a woman, I abhor the fact that these kinds of "marriages"/intimacy-free zones exist out there, they make mockery of what a marriage should be, and give the word "wife" a bad name indeed. But as long as nothing changes, nothing will change... it's a tough one.
FWIW, I think that the poster who talked about living his own life for himself, getting sexual gratification elsewhere, and thus turning the tables on the wife up to a point, is perhaps the closest to making the best out of a bad situation. The best of luck with it, OP.0 -
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same boat 98 wrote: »I'm in almost the same situation except that we still get on and to be honest love each other. Seven years ago we had our second child and that was it. We never made love again. Had sex yes once or twice a year. Not this year though. Like the OP I gave up. She doesn't even respond to cuddles anymore...
I'm really not sure how much we realise that hormones are pretty much responsible for this in addition to modern lifestyles that enable women to say no more sex. While I applaud the fact that women can be brave enough to admit it and not tolerate unwanted sex with their husbands, it's a pretty messed up scenario that they also see no need to address the matter. I referenced my own experience earlier in the thread and its there to take whatever a man wants to take from it.
Between the OP and the post above, along with other similar posts, I think this is a thread that can be different to similar threads because actual experiences are being referenced. Not that it solves anything, but it is highlighting a massive issue and discussion can hopefully deliver some conclusions and potential solutions.
My own solution was to have sex with someone else after my wife said she wouldnt blame me. This lead to jealousy and a very awkward situation when my wife tried to seduce me while I was actively having sex with someone else and I rejected her. It worked for us eventually and thankfully we are on the road to somewhere instead of nowhere. But it did involve a Doctor and lots of treatment, understanding and support. If we take the lack of love and affair scenario out of a womans disinterest in sex, straight out of the equation, we are back to basics. Those basics are hormones and those hormones can be fixed. But the biggest problem is the outright refusal of women to NOT think its a problem. This is wrong on so many levels. It's very prevelant these days hence these threads and posts.
I have a theory, but I'm not so sure I could express it here without causing chaos.
Cool thread and sad thread at the same time. Hopefully we can achieve some sort of solution/assurance for contributors.0 -
Between the OP and the post above, along with other similar posts, I think this is a thread that can be different to similar threads because actual experiences are being referenced. Not that it solves anything, but it is highlighting a massive issue and discussion can hopefully deliver some conclusions and potential solutions.
Cool thread and sad thread at the same time. Hopefully we can achieve some sort of solution/assurance for contributors
This issue is coming up again and again in this forum.
This particular thread however, seems to be an eye opener for those who've not been in a frustrating sexless relationship to acknowledge just how heart wrenching and emotionally draining it can be.
You think you're the only one going through it, it's like everyone around you is happily married and sexually fulfilled except you.
Turns out, there are loads hiding behind a smile.
I really think this thread should be stickied for a while, because it's only a matter of days before the next spouse comes along to start a new similar one.
If nothing else, this thread shows that they're not alone out there.0 -
Good question. As far as avoiding it, seems to be the luck of the draw with marriage kind of thing. Awful. (Although I do blame a lot on the subtle, wider-societal brain programming done since childhood, of "sex is baaaaad".)
The crux of the problem lies with the apparent sanctity of marriage, and the bias of the courts towards the primary carer in case of divorce. Both of these facts mean that, once the ring is on the finger, the woman acquires a huge leverage in the relationship, on the basis of which she is able to indulge any selfish tendencies and suit herself, with little consequence to herself, either socially or financially.
As a woman, I abhor the fact that these kinds of "marriages"/intimacy-free zones exist out there, they make mockery of what a marriage should be, and give the word "wife" a bad name indeed. But as long as nothing changes, nothing will change... it's a tough one.
FWIW, I think that the poster who talked about living his own life for himself, getting sexual gratification elsewhere, and thus turning the tables on the wife up to a point, is perhaps the closest to making the best out of a bad situation. The best of luck with it, OP.
I think it has more to do with motherhood than marriage.
One, as s mother you are expected to be appropriate all the time. How do you do this and be a sex goddess?
Two. You're constantly in a state of giving to your kids. How do you reclaim desire? Sometimes there is nothing left to bring to anyone's table.
Three. Domesticity is a Sex killer.
Four if you want to be desired you have to be desirable.
We don't know enough about what OP is presenting or the nature of the relationship to know. It takes two to tango but she's getting all the blame here.0 -
He's spoiling her rotten and getting nowhere. If they split he'll be expected to spoil her rotten as well. If she is less financially dependent on him this might not happen. Also if she's getting off her backside and making a financial contribution she might appreciate him more. She is sheltered now, if she were out in the world working and talking to other women she might realise how good her husband is and work harder to hold onto him.
I notice only the OP went to counselling, not his wife. I suggest they go for marriage counselling together. The OP should let his wife know he is unhappy about their nonexistent sex life and ask is she willing to go to counselling to discuss it. Does she know how important sex is to him?
Many women get a rude awakening when their marriages end (on their instigation) and they hit the dating scene. More than a few of them would have stayed with their husbands if they knew what was ahead of them. It's too late when they realise that they loved their husbands after all and in many cases the ex-husband is too broken hearted to commit emotionally to a new relationship even though he may have more sexual opportunities than he ever had.
We don't know anything about their relationship or how good her husband is.
Alienation has ways of creeping in.
Your post is more about your own value judgements on women who don't work than it is about how the OP can inspire desire in his wife.
This is a tale as old as the ages, very common, it's not a moral failure. It's a dynamic and a cycle that needs to be shaken.0 -
zeffabelli wrote: »It takes two to tango but she's getting all the blame here.
Of course she's getting all the blame? He raised it with her explaining how big an issue it was and how it was effecting him and her response was essentially "Right, whatever, here's the deal, we're not having sex anymore, can't be bothered, now let's drop it, I don't see it as a big deal".
It's the very definition of selfishness.
"Your problem not mine, I'm perfectly happy with the status quo, go fvck yourself."
If there is a reason behind it for her, she should use her big girl words and explain what the reason is, so it can be addressed. If she doesn't know the reason, she should be doing everything in her power to discover it.
"I realise this is making you deeply unhappy. But I'm grand. So this is how thing are now." Is a deeply selfish and self centred and childish response to any issue in a marriage.
She's 'getting blamed', not for the collapse of thier sex life, but for her ****ty attitude towards her husband's unhappiness.0 -
It's quite a predicament, and it seems to be more common these days. Unfortunately, it appears that women have all the power in marriages in the modern world, as divorce courts will almost always favour them. It's because of this I'll never get married. It poses too much of a risk, to the man.
As for you op, apart from divorcing and taking up hobbies to forget about sex, how would an open marriage go down? If there's no sexual interest there, it might be an option.0 -
Just wanted to add my experience to the thread, although not as relevant as some of the other replies.
I went through a similar experience to some of the posters during and after my wife’s second pregnancy. For the last 4 months or so of the pregnancy she completely went off sex – that’s probably understandable and I certainly didn’t push things. We has always had quite a good sex life up until then and it had never been a major issue for during the first pregnancy.
After our child was born I obviously wasn’t pushing for sex and just presumed that things would eventually get back to normal.
One evening I realised that it had been over a year since we’d had sex and there was still no sign of anything changing. When I would sometimes raise the issue it would get pushed away, I was made to feel I was being unreasonable. I think it had almost become a habit at this stage and I knew I needed to do something. One evening I just sat down with my wife and as calmly as possible talked about it. I said that while I still loved her, I couldn’t continue in a marriage that was lacking all intimacy. I don’t think my wife had even realised up to this point how bad things had gotten. We agreed we’d start trying again.
It sounds unromantic but we actually agreed set evenings that we called ‘sex-dates’. When the kids were in bed we’d have a nice meal, a couple of glasses of wine, massages, and sex (yeah!).
We eventually started to reconnect sexually, and our sex lives started to return to normal. Not bragging, but we probably have better sex now than we ever did and we’re married over 11years and together for almost 20.
I guess my point is that there eventually comes a stage where you need to sit down and address the issue and agree to solve it together – if one of the parties isn’t willing to do this then it’s not going to work.0 -
zeffabelli wrote: »We don't know anything about their relationship or how good her husband is.
Alienation has ways of creeping in.
Your post is more about your own value judgements on women who don't work than it is about how the OP can inspire desire in his wife.
This is a tale as old as the ages, very common, it's not a moral failure. It's a dynamic and a cycle that needs to be shaken.
I am not judging women who don't work. I do however think it is wrong to be in any kind of relationship and make no contribution whatsoever or leave one person to do most of the work. Relationships are a two way street.0 -
Of course she's getting all the blame? He raised it with her explaining how big an issue it was and how it was effecting him and her response was essentially "Right, whatever, here's the deal, we're not having sex anymore, can't be bothered, now let's drop it, I don't see it as a big deal".
It's the very definition of selfishness.
"Your problem not mine, I'm perfectly happy with the status quo, go fvck yourself."
If there is a reason behind it for her, she should use her big girl words and explain what the reason is, so it can be addressed. If she doesn't know the reason, she should be doing everything in her power to discover it.
"I realise this is making you deeply unhappy. But I'm grand. So this is how thing are now." Is a deeply selfish and self centred and childish response to any issue in a marriage.
She's 'getting blamed', not for the collapse of thier sex life, but for her ****ty attitude towards her husband's unhappiness.
You are right, that is self centred.
Number of possibilities:
1. Pure selfishness....simply not giving a ****.
2. The difficulty in talking about sex....finding the right language...especially if it hurts someones feelings like "I don't fancy you."
3. The possibility of feeling exposed and not having the vocabulary to talk about something diffuse...she may not know why... this can be really hard if the person you are talking to as a general rule doesn't listen. "i feel ugly. I am ashamed of my body." These are really really hard things to say.
4. Is there a possibility of latent utilitarian/Catholic ideas about sex...the procreation is done.... therefore...
I am not married but I can speak from experience of motherhood, that I felt I lost so much autonomy over my own body, the constant contact with children, touching, hugs, carrying, snussling, etc... the constant outputs of giving... that it can be difficult to feel like a woman when you are a mother all the time. I certainly feel this though I don't have a marriage to manage as well.
So without much space to feel like a woman, and the loss of autonomy over my body...the last thing I would want is another person needing to touch me because without the space to be autonomous this can feel oppressive.
Where this leaves a marriage I would imagine is a challenge and how a wife than can reclaim desire....
Clearly I don't know how OP and his wife communicate outside of this context, are they open and non judgemental...is their mutual scaffolding... are there historical minefields...no one here knows this...
Or yeah maybe just indifference but how do we know?0 -
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The Princess Bride wrote: »This issue is coming up again and again in this forum.
This particular thread however, seems to be an eye opener for those who've not been in a frustrating sexless relationship to acknowledge just how heart wrenching and emotionally draining it can be.
You think you're the only one going through it, it's like everyone around you is happily married and sexually fulfilled except you.
Turns out, there are loads hiding behind a smile.
I really think this thread should be stickied for a while, because it's only a matter of days before the next spouse comes along to start a new similar one.
If nothing else, this thread shows that they're not alone out there.
I agree with this. Recently a girl posted asking if she should date a guy who was nice and had a good job but she wasn't sure she fancied him. Is this what happens a few years down the line when the girl marries the nice guy with the good job that she doesn't fancy? They set up home, she gets what she wants and stops sleeping with him.
We agree the OP's wife is a busy(ish) mum. I don't think her problem is exhaustion because she is able to paint and do yoga classes. If she's doing yoga classes she's probably in good shape.
If she's willing to go to marriage counselling and/or talk to her doctor about hormonal issues relating to desire then the problem isn't selfishness on her part. The OP will have to discuss this with her. If she isn't willing to discuss it he will have to deal with things as he sees fit. Sometimes the threat of another woman can be a wake-up call and a powerful aphrodisiac.0
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