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Photographing kids for Halloween at my door

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24

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    #32
    Paulw
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 13,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    beyondbelief67 wrote: »
    From the law point of view even if the child is on your property you still aren't allowed to take photos of them and will be asked to stop and delete them.


    What law? Please show a link to such a law.

    You won't find one, because there is no such law in Ireland.


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    #33
    beyondbelief67
    Registered Users Posts: 550 ✭✭✭beyondbelief67


    Paulw wrote: »
    What law? Please show a link to such a law.

    You won't find one, because there is no such law in Ireland.

    You might want to tell that to tramore Garda station as they were the ones who told my neighbour to stop ? Tramore is in county Waterford Ireland so I presume comes under Irish law !


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    #34
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Poncke wrote: »
    Right, dropping the idea. Thanks for all the input

    Keep the flash and let us know how it goes!


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    #35
    Poncke
    Registered Users Posts: 955 ✭✭✭Poncke


    Well, there is indeed no law, just the data protection act

    I also found this http://www.artscouncil.ie/uploadedFiles/Guidelines.pdf

    If I understand correctly I can take the photos without consent because non of the photos will be published and it is all about getting a spontaneous photo. I could get a pissed off parent, but they literally cant do anything legally. Anyway, I dont want to piss off my neighbourhood so I wont take the photos without asking first.


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    #36
    Paulw
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 13,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    beyondbelief67 wrote: »
    You might want to tell that to tramore Garda station as they were the ones who told my neighbour to stop ? Tramore is in county Waterford Ireland so I presume comes under Irish law !

    I've no problem telling it to a Garda. In general, they are well trained and know that it's not illegal. But, they are human and make mistakes.

    I have thousands of photos of children and have never once had an issue with parents not Gardai. I think I'll have a few hundred more photos by the end of this evening. My biggest problem, usually, is parents insisting that I take a photo of their child.

    There is still no law prohibiting taking photos of children.


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    #37
    Poncke
    Registered Users Posts: 955 ✭✭✭Poncke


    beyondbelief67 wrote: »
    You might want to tell that to tramore Garda station as they were the ones who told my neighbour to stop ? Tramore is in county Waterford Ireland so I presume comes under Irish law !

    Told him or asked him? If they got a complaint for nuisance or disturbance then yes they have to go and check it out and may have asked your neighbour to stop. As is there is no law against taking photos (only for publishing), they couldnt have told him to stop it, unless he was causing a disturbance.


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    #38
    beyondbelief67
    Registered Users Posts: 550 ✭✭✭beyondbelief67


    Poncke wrote: »
    Told him or asked him? If they got a complaint for nuisance or disturbance then yes they have to go and check it out and may have asked your neighbour to stop. As is there is no law against taking photos (only for publishing), they couldnt have told him to stop it, unless he was causing a disturbance.

    They told him to stop, and asked to check his camera too to make sure the images taken so far were deleted from his camera. They had received complaints from the children's parents so many witnesses to him being told to stop and that he was breaking the law in what he was doing. But I'm no Garda or solicitor so can only say what I and others heard, and thought I would tell you but your choice in what you do.


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    #39
    sonny.knowles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 607 ✭✭✭sonny.knowles


    Poncke wrote: »
    I could get a pissed off parent, but they literally cant do anything legally.

    If you plan to say something this dickheaded to someone's face, be prepared for them doing something that isn't legal. Like smash your camera or punch you in the face.


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    #40
    Paulw
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 13,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    beyondbelief67 wrote: »
    They told him to stop, and asked to check his camera too to make sure the images taken so far were deleted from his camera. They had received complaints from the children's parents so many witnesses to him being told to stop and that he was breaking the law in what he was doing. But I'm no Garda or solicitor so can only say what I and others heard, and thought I would tell you but your choice in what you do.

    He said, she said ... etc.

    A Garda cannot force you to delete images from your camera, for any reason. If you are breaking the law, then the images must be retained as evidence for court. If you are not breaking the law, then they have no right to damage your personal property. They can always request, as can anyone, but you are within your rights to say no.

    Also, if you delete images from a memory card, you can simply undelete them after. Plenty of quality software out there for doing that.


    Is it illegal to take photographs of children?
    No. There is no legal constraint on taking images of children or young people in public settings. However, photographs or images are defined as data and therefore come within the scope of the Data Protection Acts 1998/2003

    So, the Gardai have no right to demand that you stop taking photos, and can only request you to delete images.

    Any decent Garda or solicitor can deal with that, and if a Garda forces you, simply report it to the Garda Ombudsman. :D


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    #41
    mordeith
    Registered Users Posts: 5,278 ✭✭✭mordeith


    Poncke wrote: »
    Sorry, but thats bullocks, a flash doesnt harm anyone, you wouldnt be able to take a photo with flash at your own kids birthday party if that was the case.

    Ah I didn't mean the flash itself. But say a kid takes a stumble after the flash, and grazes their head or some ****. I mean it's completely ridiculous, but a look at many of the litigation cases going through our courts and you'd realise it's eminently possible.


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    #42
    Poncke
    Registered Users Posts: 955 ✭✭✭Poncke


    sonny.knowles wrote: »
    If you plan to say something this dickheaded to someone's face, be prepared for them doing something that isn't legal. Like smash your camera or punch you in the face.

    ???? Where did I say I am going to tell them off? And I would like to think that people are not that aggressive to commit to assault and damaging private property because of a photo


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    #43
    sonny.knowles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 607 ✭✭✭sonny.knowles


    Poncke wrote: »
    ???? Where did I say I am going to tell them off? And I would like to think that assault and damaging private property on purpose is illegal in this country.

    Not everyone is rational, particularly when it comes to their children. Plus mobs (if one forms) generally aren't law abiding.


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    #44
    Poncke
    Registered Users Posts: 955 ✭✭✭Poncke


    sonny.knowles wrote: »
    Not everyone is rational, particularly when it comes to their children. Plus mobs (if one forms) generally aren't law abiding.

    Mobs? LOL.

    If they are overly concerned about a photo being taking of they need to reconsider taking candy from a stranger and feeding this to their kids as well. It could be laced with cyanide!!


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    #45
    me0w
    Registered Users Posts: 130 ✭✭me0w


    Paulw wrote: »

    I will be out this evening taking hundreds of photos of kids, without asking for permission.

    .... Wow.. Creepy much


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    #46
    Poncke
    Registered Users Posts: 955 ✭✭✭Poncke


    Good topic and discussion, but I have completely dropped the idea. People are too sensitive and I dont care much for being known in the area as the creepy photographer guy.


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    #47
    Poncke
    Registered Users Posts: 955 ✭✭✭Poncke


    me0w wrote: »
    .... Wow.. Creepy much

    Get a grip

    People are way over-sensitive over photographs these days. No idea where that fear of your photo being taken is coming from.

    When I walk around taking photos in city centre people get all suspicious and you get the weirdest comments. Why?


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    #48
    Paulw
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 13,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    me0w wrote: »
    .... Wow.. Creepy much

    Nope, not at all. What is creepy about taking photos? Are you paranoid? You walk down the street every day and there are tens, if not hundreds of CCTV cameras that capture you and your family, doing your daily activities. But yet a photographer taking photos is creepy? I love your logic. :eek:
    Poncke wrote: »
    Good topic and discussion, but I have completely dropped the idea. People are too sensitive and I dont care much for being known in the area as the creepy photographer guy.

    I think that's a shame. In years to come, who will have images of children at play and festivals? Don't worry about the small minority of people. The vast majority don't have a problem with genuine photographers.


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    #49
    me0w
    Registered Users Posts: 130 ✭✭me0w


    Poncke wrote: »
    Get a grip

    People are way over-sensitive over photographs these days. No idea where that fear of your photo being taken is coming from.

    When I walk around taking photos in city centre people get all suspicious and you get the weirdest comments. Why?

    It's not being sensitive about taking photos it's about taking photos of other people's kids without permission.
    Because in case you didnt know, there is such thing as pedophiles. If you had children you might understand.


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    #50
    Poncke
    Registered Users Posts: 955 ✭✭✭Poncke


    me0w wrote: »
    It's not being sensitive about taking photos it's about taking photos of other people's kids without permission.
    Because in case you didnt know, there is such thing as pedophiles. If you had children you might understand.
    Ah I love that argument, as if people without kids have no common sense. What makes you think I dont have kids?

    And there is no discussion about kids without someone mentioning paedophiles.

    You are missing the point, I dont need permission to take photos. But I understand why parents might get upset.


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    #51
    Tasden
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,166 ✭✭✭Tasden


    Paulw wrote: »
    Nope, not at all. What is creepy about taking photos? Are you paranoid? You walk down the street every day and there are tens, if not hundreds of CCTV cameras that capture you and your family, doing your daily activities. But yet a photographer taking photos is creepy? I love your logic. :eek:



    I think that's a shame. In years to come, who will have images of children at play and festivals? Don't worry about the small minority of people. The vast majority don't have a problem with genuine photographers.

    Actually my problem with people taking photos nowadays at things like school events or at play like you say is usually that those people then go home and upload them onto facebook or the likes. I don't use facebook and I certainly wouldn't be uploading pictures of my child on it if i did because I think its unfair on the child when they are not fully aware of what facebook even is let alone able to give permission to have their face plastered on it. But some parents have no issue putting photos of not only their own kids but other people's children too up on facebook so it may not be something i find "creepy" per se, but yeah I do have issues with randomers taking photos of my child because I can't guarantee where they'll end up, and nothing to do with worrying about paedophiles or anything, just pure respect for my child's privacy in a time where everything is posted to social media.


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    #52
    me0w
    Registered Users Posts: 130 ✭✭me0w


    Poncke wrote: »
    Ah I love that argument, as if people without kids have no common sense. What makes you think I dont have kids?

    And there is no discussion about kids without someone mentioning paedophiles.

    You are missing the point, I dont need permission to take photos. But I understand why parents might get upset.

    Well, you SHOULD get permission - out of respect, or else you just look like a creepy pedo. (IMO and I'm sure other people would agree)


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    #53
    Poncke
    Registered Users Posts: 955 ✭✭✭Poncke


    @Tasden

    So dont want other parents put a photo of their own kid on Facebook, in a school play, because your kid is in the photo too?


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    #54
    Paulw
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 13,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    me0w wrote: »
    It's not being sensitive about taking photos it's about taking photos of other people's kids without permission.
    Because in case you didnt know, there is such thing as pedophiles. If you had children you might understand.

    Permission is not required. I have heard of those pedophile things, but then again, statistics say that a family member or person they know well is more likely to assault a child than a stranger.

    And, I do have a child. A wonderful daughter who loves the camera. :D

    I take photos of many things. Very few images are on Facebook, but a lot go on other online resources - flickr, my website, etc.

    If people don't want their photo, or their child's photo taken, they are welcome to request that I don't, and I will respect their wish. However, I do not need their permission to take a photo in public.

    I think it is very sad when people become paranoid. It says more about their own mindset than that of people taking photos/video.


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    #55
    me0w
    Registered Users Posts: 130 ✭✭me0w


    Paulw wrote: »
    Permission is not required.

    I know it's not required by LAW, but out of respect you should ask the parent of the child! And it makes you look less suspect.


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    #56
    Poncke
    Registered Users Posts: 955 ✭✭✭Poncke


    me0w wrote: »
    Well, you SHOULD get permission - out of respect, or else you just look like a creepy pedo. (IMO and I'm sure other people would agree)

    You really need to be a little bit more rational and also interpret my comments differently. I am not being stubborn, just explaining the rules and I have already said I dropped the idea. I have just put away all my gear.


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    #57
    Tasden
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,166 ✭✭✭Tasden


    Poncke wrote: »
    @Tasden

    So dont want other parents put a photo of their own kid on Facebook, in a school play, because your kid is in the photo too?


    They are well able to crop out other people/zoom in on their child or else specifically ask the parent before putting a picture of their child on the internet.


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    #58
    Poncke
    Registered Users Posts: 955 ✭✭✭Poncke


    Tasden wrote: »
    They are well able to crop out other people/zoom in on their child or else specifically ask the parent before putting a picture of their child on the internet.

    So they will have a nice half cut photo of the podium and the school play.


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    #59
    Poncke
    Registered Users Posts: 955 ✭✭✭Poncke


    What about a class photo? Do they need to crop out all other kids too?


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    #60
    Paulw
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 13,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    Tasden wrote: »
    They are well able to crop out other people/zoom in on their child or else specifically ask the parent before putting a picture of their child on the internet.

    Or maybe you should just keep your child out of public events, just in case someone takes a photo and doesn't know to ask you. :D

    It's not always realistic and practical to ask permission from every person every time you take a photo of a group/crowd/event. So, the onus is not on them to ask permission. Maybe hang a sign on your child that says "Do not photograph or video without expressed permission". :D

    Oh, and Happy Halloween everyone ... looks like it's going to be a nice dry evening for bonefires and fireworks. Plenty of well organised events on around.


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    #61
    Tasden
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,166 ✭✭✭Tasden


    Poncke wrote: »
    So they will have a nice half cut photo of the podium and the school play.

    No, "they" can have perfect pictures including all the kids that they can cherish all they like. Randomers on the internet will have a picture that doesn't include my child. I cant control what people put on their own social media (the exact reason why i dont like her being photographed by randomers, I cant guarantee where they'll end up). I just personally don't agree with people posting pictures of other people's children online. Its basic respect for the children imo.

    Edit: only saw the previous post about the onus being on me to keep her from being photographed. See above re not being able to control where the pictures end up. Like i said, imo people should just have respect for children's privacy and not post them online.


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