Photographing kids for Halloween at my door

Poncke · 31-10-2015 1:43pm #1

Hello, for this year's Halloween I have set up my camera plus studio lights in the hallway to give the kids a bit of a scare with a flash when we open the door. I am planning to take their photo and hope to snap some scared faces. I will be handing the parents my contact details so they can get the photos from me, for free.

Someone warned me that this might not be appreciated, taking photos of kids and all that. I dont see the harm, but people might get upset over it.

What do you think?

Cheers

Edit: after reading all comments I have decided to change my plans, thanks.

Penny Tration · 31-10-2015 1:44pm

You really shouldn't take photos of kids without first getting consent from their parents

CabanSail · 31-10-2015 1:46pm

Penny Tration wrote: »

You really shouldn't take photos of kids without first getting consent from their parents

Rubbish, you are within your rights to do so. Especially as they are on your property.

Poncke · 31-10-2015 1:47pm

Penny Tration wrote: »

You really shouldn't take photos of kids without first getting consent from their parents

Is that the law? Your personal opinion? Or a general unspoken rule?

Would parents really get upset? Its all about having fun and getting them a photo they normally wont have of their children?

It is all very harmless and innocent.

Eugene Norman · 31-10-2015 1:48pm

I imagine you can photograph anybody on your property. However whether it annoys their parents is a different thing.

Penny Tration · 31-10-2015 1:49pm

Poncke wrote: »

Is that the law? Your personal opinion? Or a general unspoken rule?

Would parents really get upset? Its all about having fun and getting them a photo they normally wont have of their children?

It is all very harmless and innocent.

It's an opinion, like you asked for.

All it takes is one ratty parent to take issue with it, to ruin your plan (which is class, by the way). Personally, I wouldn't risk p!ssing off parents by photographing their kids.

Penny Tration · 31-10-2015 1:49pm

CabanSail wrote: »

Rubbish, you are within your rights to do so. Especially as they are on your property.

Yes, I know legally he can. He asked for opinions though, not law.

Poncke · 31-10-2015 1:50pm

Eugene Norman wrote: »

I imagine you can photograph anybody on your property. However whether it annoys their parents is a different thing.

Yep, I understand, I just wonder if parents in Ireland would get upset or if they would appreciate the effort?

I am not out to be a prick, I just want to do something original and hopefully fun.

Poncke · 31-10-2015 1:51pm

Penny Tration wrote: »

It's an opinion, like you asked for.

All it takes is one ratty parent to take issue with it, to ruin your plan (which is class, by the way). Personally, I wouldn't risk p!ssing off parents by photographing their kids.

Thanks, I could offer to delete the picture right there and then to calm them down. Or should I drop the whole idea?

Tasden · 31-10-2015 1:52pm

Poncke wrote: »

Is that the law? Your personal opinion? Or a general unspoken rule?

Would parents really get upset? Its all about having fun and getting them a photo they normally wont have of their children?

It is all very harmless and innocent.

Can't speak for all parents but I wouldn't be happy at all. I only allow my child to call in to the houses of her friends and so even with it being someone I know I'd still feel weird about it. But if its kids you might not even be that familiar with then I really wouldn't do that.

Penny Tration · 31-10-2015 1:55pm

Poncke wrote: »

Thanks, I could offer to delete the picture right there and then to calm them down. Or should I drop the whole idea?

If you're able to do that then yeah, that could calm the situation if someone gets annoyed.

eviltwin · 31-10-2015 1:56pm

As a parent of a young child I'd be more annoyed at having to calm down a frightened child than the photo. I don't think you should do it if the kids coming up the path are very small.

Poncke · 31-10-2015 1:57pm

Tasden wrote: »

Can't speak for all parents but I wouldn't be happy at all. I only allow my child to call in to the houses of her friends and so even with it being someone I know I'd still feel weird about it. But if its kids you might not even be that familiar with then I really wouldn't do that.

Why wouldnt you be happy? What would be your gripe?

I am not in a park following kids around with a camera.

My opinion, people are over-sensitive these days. I wouldnt like my kids to be photographed by a stranger in a park, but if it was at someone's house for Halloween I wouldnt have the slightest problem with it if I was told I could get the photo and get a business card with contact details.

uck51js9zml2yt · 31-10-2015 1:57pm

Offer to send the parents a copy!

Poncke · 31-10-2015 1:59pm

eviltwin wrote: »

As a parent of a young child I'd be more annoyed at having to calm down a frightened child than the photo. I don't think you should do it if the kids coming up the path are very small.

What if someone opens the door who is dressed up very well and scares the kids? Same difference. It is Halloween for Pete's sake.

Poncke · 31-10-2015 1:59pm

Yisroel Billions Prism wrote: »

Offer to send the parents a copy!

Yes, thats the plan!

GalwayGrrrrrl · 31-10-2015 2:01pm

As a parent of primary school aged children (and keen photographer) I wouldn't be happy about you taking the photo without asking me first. I'd also feel that you were going to try to sell me the photos later if you asked for my contact details. Sounds like a fun idea but not with kids involved.

eviltwin · 31-10-2015 2:01pm

Poncke wrote: »

What if someone opens the door who is dressed up very well and scares the kids? Same difference. It is Halloween for Pete's sake.

Your intention is to scare the kids. It's might go down well with some kids but young children are probably going to be upset by it and that will upset their parents.

Qualitymark · 31-10-2015 2:02pm

If you have the prior written consent of the children's parents, you might be all right.

Some years ago I was talking to the Data Protection Commissioner, who told me that paedophiles swap what they call 'Lolita' pictures - these are perfectly ordinary pictures of children, but the paedophiles' purposes in using these pictures are far from innocent. Because of this, he said, the law in Ireland had been tightened up considerably in relation to taking photographs of children.

Not a lawyer, but I'd consult one first before stepping into this pool of trouble.

HeyArnold320 · 31-10-2015 2:02pm

I don't want to sound overly sensitive but I personally wouldn't want someone I don't know having photos of my kids. I do see what you're trying to do and it would be funny for the kids I'm sure but I just don't think it's a great idea.

Tasden · 31-10-2015 2:03pm

Poncke wrote: »

Why wouldnt you be happy? What would be your gripe?

I am not in a park following kids around with a camera.

My opinion, people are over-sensitive these days. I wouldnt like my kids to be photographed by a stranger in a park, but if it was at someone's house for Halloween I wouldnt have the slightest problem with it if I was told I could get the photo and get a business card with contact details.

If i wanted a photo of my child I'd ask her if i can take one myself. If my child wanted her photo taken she'd ask for it to be taken. I don't agree with the whole "well you can get the photo, here's my card, or else i can delete it" after the fact, it would still have been taken without my child's (or my own) permission, which is the issue I have with it.

mordeith · 31-10-2015 2:04pm

Poncke wrote: »

Hello, for this year's Halloween I have set up my camera plus studio lights in the hallway to give the kids a bit of a scare with a flash when we open the door. I am planning to take their photo and hope to snap some scared faces. I will be handing the parents my contact details so they can get the photos from me.

Someone warned me that this might not be appreciated, taking photos of kids and all that. I dont see the harm, but people might get upset over it.

What do you think?

Cheers

To be honest, with the way people are these days, I'd be more concerned over some kid having some minor reaction to the flash, and some weeks later you get a solicitor's letter.

Poncke · 31-10-2015 2:05pm

xfactorfan23 wrote: »

As a parent of primary school aged children (and keen photographer) I wouldn't be happy about you taking the photo without asking me first. I'd also feel that you were going to try to sell me the photos later if you asked for my contact details. Sounds like a fun idea but not with kids involved.

I have no intention whatsoever to sell any photos, they're all free

Poncke · 31-10-2015 2:05pm

Right, dropping the idea. Thanks for all the input

Poncke · 31-10-2015 2:06pm

mordeith wrote: »

To be honest, with the way people are these days, I'd be more concerned over some kid having some minor reaction to the flash, and some weeks later you get a solicitor's letter.

Sorry, but thats bullocks, a flash doesnt harm anyone, you wouldnt be able to take a photo with flash at your own kids birthday party if that was the case.

Poncke · 31-10-2015 2:08pm

Change of plans, I will open the door, give them the candy and ask if they are interested in having their photo taken

jaded_pause · 31-10-2015 2:11pm

I'd imagine 15odd years ago this would have been a great idea, and great fun, and no one would have been saying "consult your solicitor first" or parents wont like it. In my opinion, it's halloween for gods sake, kids should expect to get a fright, if parents are ok with going around to people's houses and getting sh!te for their kids, then they should expect the trick part too. It's a shame the world has become too PC.

31-10-2015 2:13pm

HeyArnold320 wrote: »

I don't want to sound overly sensitive but I personally wouldn't want someone I don't know having photos of my kids. I do see what you're trying to do and it would be funny for the kids I'm sure but I just don't think it's a great idea.

Why would any responsible parent let their kids go trick or treating to strangers houses?

beyondbelief67 · 31-10-2015 2:19pm

From the law point of view even if the child is on your property you still aren't allowed to take photos of them and will be asked to stop and delete them.
My neighbour was taking photos of children entering his garden and wrecking his plants etc he only took the photos after calling on the parents and Garda but had been told no not my kids, so he decided to get proof, only fell into trouble for doing it, was told that taking pictures of children for any reason without parental permission is not allowed.
This was earlier this year, maybe do it for next year and put notes with your card etc through local letter boxes first offering to do this so parents can know ?

Tasden · 31-10-2015 2:24pm

Poncke wrote: »

Change of plans, I will open the door, give them the candy and ask if they are interested in having their photo taken

I'm assuming if parents wanted a photo they'd have taken one themselves already tbh, but good luck with it

Paulw · 31-10-2015 2:24pm

Oh FFS, people are just paranoid and over sensitive.

You are not breaking any Data Protection laws by taking photos of children, in public or on your property. DPC can only comment on usage of the images.

I will be out this evening taking hundreds of photos of kids, without asking for permission.

Paulw · 31-10-2015 2:25pm

beyondbelief67 wrote: »

From the law point of view even if the child is on your property you still aren't allowed to take photos of them and will be asked to stop and delete them.

What law? Please show a link to such a law.

You won't find one, because there is no such law in Ireland.

beyondbelief67 · 31-10-2015 2:35pm

Paulw wrote: »

What law? Please show a link to such a law.

You won't find one, because there is no such law in Ireland.

You might want to tell that to tramore Garda station as they were the ones who told my neighbour to stop ? Tramore is in county Waterford Ireland so I presume comes under Irish law !

31-10-2015 2:37pm

Poncke wrote: »

Right, dropping the idea. Thanks for all the input

Keep the flash and let us know how it goes!

Poncke · 31-10-2015 2:38pm

Well, there is indeed no law, just the data protection act

I also found this http://www.artscouncil.ie/uploadedFiles/Guidelines.pdf

If I understand correctly I can take the photos without consent because non of the photos will be published and it is all about getting a spontaneous photo. I could get a pissed off parent, but they literally cant do anything legally. Anyway, I dont want to piss off my neighbourhood so I wont take the photos without asking first.

Paulw · 31-10-2015 2:39pm

beyondbelief67 wrote: »

You might want to tell that to tramore Garda station as they were the ones who told my neighbour to stop ? Tramore is in county Waterford Ireland so I presume comes under Irish law !

I've no problem telling it to a Garda. In general, they are well trained and know that it's not illegal. But, they are human and make mistakes.

I have thousands of photos of children and have never once had an issue with parents not Gardai. I think I'll have a few hundred more photos by the end of this evening. My biggest problem, usually, is parents insisting that I take a photo of their child.

There is still no law prohibiting taking photos of children.

Poncke · 31-10-2015 2:41pm

beyondbelief67 wrote: »

You might want to tell that to tramore Garda station as they were the ones who told my neighbour to stop ? Tramore is in county Waterford Ireland so I presume comes under Irish law !

Told him or asked him? If they got a complaint for nuisance or disturbance then yes they have to go and check it out and may have asked your neighbour to stop. As is there is no law against taking photos (only for publishing), they couldnt have told him to stop it, unless he was causing a disturbance.

beyondbelief67 · 31-10-2015 2:48pm

Poncke wrote: »

Told him or asked him? If they got a complaint for nuisance or disturbance then yes they have to go and check it out and may have asked your neighbour to stop. As is there is no law against taking photos (only for publishing), they couldnt have told him to stop it, unless he was causing a disturbance.

They told him to stop, and asked to check his camera too to make sure the images taken so far were deleted from his camera. They had received complaints from the children's parents so many witnesses to him being told to stop and that he was breaking the law in what he was doing. But I'm no Garda or solicitor so can only say what I and others heard, and thought I would tell you but your choice in what you do.

sonny.knowles · 31-10-2015 2:52pm

Poncke wrote: »

I could get a pissed off parent, but they literally cant do anything legally.

If you plan to say something this dickheaded to someone's face, be prepared for them doing something that isn't legal. Like smash your camera or punch you in the face.

Paulw · 31-10-2015 2:53pm

beyondbelief67 wrote: »

They told him to stop, and asked to check his camera too to make sure the images taken so far were deleted from his camera. They had received complaints from the children's parents so many witnesses to him being told to stop and that he was breaking the law in what he was doing. But I'm no Garda or solicitor so can only say what I and others heard, and thought I would tell you but your choice in what you do.

He said, she said ... etc.

A Garda cannot force you to delete images from your camera, for any reason. If you are breaking the law, then the images must be retained as evidence for court. If you are not breaking the law, then they have no right to damage your personal property. They can always request, as can anyone, but you are within your rights to say no.

Also, if you delete images from a memory card, you can simply undelete them after. Plenty of quality software out there for doing that.

Is it illegal to take photographs of children?
No. There is no legal constraint on taking images of children or young people in public settings. However, photographs or images are defined as data and therefore come within the scope of the Data Protection Acts 1998/2003

So, the Gardai have no right to demand that you stop taking photos, and can only request you to delete images.

Any decent Garda or solicitor can deal with that, and if a Garda forces you, simply report it to the Garda Ombudsman.

mordeith · 31-10-2015 2:56pm

Poncke wrote: »

Sorry, but thats bullocks, a flash doesnt harm anyone, you wouldnt be able to take a photo with flash at your own kids birthday party if that was the case.

Ah I didn't mean the flash itself. But say a kid takes a stumble after the flash, and grazes their head or some ****. I mean it's completely ridiculous, but a look at many of the litigation cases going through our courts and you'd realise it's eminently possible.

Poncke · 31-10-2015 2:59pm

sonny.knowles wrote: »

If you plan to say something this dickheaded to someone's face, be prepared for them doing something that isn't legal. Like smash your camera or punch you in the face.

???? Where did I say I am going to tell them off? And I would like to think that people are not that aggressive to commit to assault and damaging private property because of a photo

sonny.knowles · 31-10-2015 3:04pm

Poncke wrote: »

???? Where did I say I am going to tell them off? And I would like to think that assault and damaging private property on purpose is illegal in this country.

Not everyone is rational, particularly when it comes to their children. Plus mobs (if one forms) generally aren't law abiding.

Poncke · 31-10-2015 3:13pm

sonny.knowles wrote: »

Not everyone is rational, particularly when it comes to their children. Plus mobs (if one forms) generally aren't law abiding.

Mobs? LOL.

If they are overly concerned about a photo being taking of they need to reconsider taking candy from a stranger and feeding this to their kids as well. It could be laced with cyanide!!

me0w · 31-10-2015 3:43pm

Paulw wrote: »

I will be out this evening taking hundreds of photos of kids, without asking for permission.

.... Wow.. Creepy much

Poncke · 31-10-2015 3:45pm

Good topic and discussion, but I have completely dropped the idea. People are too sensitive and I dont care much for being known in the area as the creepy photographer guy.

Poncke · 31-10-2015 3:48pm

me0w wrote: »

.... Wow.. Creepy much

Get a grip

People are way over-sensitive over photographs these days. No idea where that fear of your photo being taken is coming from.

When I walk around taking photos in city centre people get all suspicious and you get the weirdest comments. Why?

Paulw · 31-10-2015 3:49pm

me0w wrote: »

.... Wow.. Creepy much

Nope, not at all. What is creepy about taking photos? Are you paranoid? You walk down the street every day and there are tens, if not hundreds of CCTV cameras that capture you and your family, doing your daily activities. But yet a photographer taking photos is creepy? I love your logic. :eek:

Poncke wrote: »

Good topic and discussion, but I have completely dropped the idea. People are too sensitive and I dont care much for being known in the area as the creepy photographer guy.

I think that's a shame. In years to come, who will have images of children at play and festivals? Don't worry about the small minority of people. The vast majority don't have a problem with genuine photographers.

me0w · 31-10-2015 3:51pm

Poncke wrote: »

Get a grip

People are way over-sensitive over photographs these days. No idea where that fear of your photo being taken is coming from.

When I walk around taking photos in city centre people get all suspicious and you get the weirdest comments. Why?

It's not being sensitive about taking photos it's about taking photos of other people's kids without permission.
Because in case you didnt know, there is such thing as pedophiles. If you had children you might understand.

Poncke · 31-10-2015 4:10pm

me0w wrote: »

It's not being sensitive about taking photos it's about taking photos of other people's kids without permission.
Because in case you didnt know, there is such thing as pedophiles. If you had children you might understand.

Ah I love that argument, as if people without kids have no common sense. What makes you think I dont have kids?

And there is no discussion about kids without someone mentioning paedophiles.

You are missing the point, I dont need permission to take photos. But I understand why parents might get upset.

Tasden · 31-10-2015 4:11pm

Paulw wrote: »

Nope, not at all. What is creepy about taking photos? Are you paranoid? You walk down the street every day and there are tens, if not hundreds of CCTV cameras that capture you and your family, doing your daily activities. But yet a photographer taking photos is creepy? I love your logic. :eek:

I think that's a shame. In years to come, who will have images of children at play and festivals? Don't worry about the small minority of people. The vast majority don't have a problem with genuine photographers.

Actually my problem with people taking photos nowadays at things like school events or at play like you say is usually that those people then go home and upload them onto facebook or the likes. I don't use facebook and I certainly wouldn't be uploading pictures of my child on it if i did because I think its unfair on the child when they are not fully aware of what facebook even is let alone able to give permission to have their face plastered on it. But some parents have no issue putting photos of not only their own kids but other people's children too up on facebook so it may not be something i find "creepy" per se, but yeah I do have issues with randomers taking photos of my child because I can't guarantee where they'll end up, and nothing to do with worrying about paedophiles or anything, just pure respect for my child's privacy in a time where everything is posted to social media.

Photographing kids for Halloween at my door

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