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Next Irish captain

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13

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    #62
    shootermacg
    Registered Users Posts: 4,843 ✭✭✭shootermacg


    rrpc wrote: »
    I haven't offered an opinion on who should be captain. I've questioned other peoples' 'judgment' on the matter.

    Well get off the fence then son and out with it!


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    #63
    rrpc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭rrpc


    kuang1 wrote: »
    No you said:
    You used the word 'replica' which was neither said nor implied in my post.
    kuang1 wrote: »
    And my answer to that is: I don't know. Because I can't know. You don't know because you can't know either.

    Do I think children learn nothing from their parents?
    No I don't think that. But how much is learned? You have a method by which we could measure that?

    Your points are not necessarily irrelevant, but a bit conveniently hazy.

    But seriously, do you consider Heaslip sufficiently inspirational?

    Since you're starting from a position of misunderstanding, it's hard to engage with your point.

    I'll just reiterate what I said earlier: The decision maker on the matter is in an infinitely better place than you or me to make that decision and I'm quite happy to leave it with them.


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    #64
    Pink Fairy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,666 ✭✭✭Pink Fairy


    rrpc wrote: »
    I haven't offered an opinion on who should be captain. I've questioned other peoples' 'judgment' on the matter.

    I referred to your opinion that his father's occupation had some bearing on his ability to captain the Irish rugby team


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    #65
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    We have had a Leinster and Munster Capt time for Ulster to have the Captaincy. Connacht's time will come if their good enough but Ulster has a great ruby tradition, chose a player from that team.
    Not commenting on best but it will be Ulsters time when they've the best candidate. There is no they are due a shot now


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    #66
    kuang1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,442 ✭✭✭kuang1


    rrpc wrote: »
    You used the word 'replica' which was neither said nor implied in my post.



    Since you're starting from a position of misunderstanding, it's hard to engage with your point.

    I'll just reiterate what I said earlier: The decision maker on the matter is in an infinitely better place than you or me to make that decision and I'm quite happy to leave it with them.

    I'm asking you...again...and again with zero sarcasm, do you think Heaslip is sufficiently motivating to be a good captain for us?


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    #67
    rrpc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭rrpc


    kuang1 wrote: »
    I'm asking you...again...and again with zero sarcasm, do you think Heaslip is sufficiently motivating to be a good captain for us?

    I haven't the foggiest clue. I suspect that question is best addressed to the players he leads.

    I know leaders who would inspire unbelievable loyalty but who would not strike you as such on first or even subsequent meeting.


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    #68
    kuang1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,442 ✭✭✭kuang1


    rrpc wrote: »
    Hmmm...
    You think a guy who's father founded and commanded the army ranger wing doesn't know what it takes to be a leader?
    rrpc wrote: »
    I haven't the foggiest clue. I suspect that question is best addressed to the players he leads.

    And round and round we go.


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    #69
    Bandana boy
    Registered Users Posts: 4,326 ✭✭✭Bandana boy


    I would not like to see Heaslip get it.

    There was a point in the QF before the Argies kicked them selves into a 17-0 lead.
    A player was down receiving treatment and we had a dead 90 secs.
    We needed a leader to pull the team together for that 1 min and address what was happening on the pitch. That did not happen , the pack just moved to there penalty kick positions and waited . I would have much preferred a vocal captain at this point to rally the troops.

    I would not like to see Jonny get it either , he has enough responsibility in running the game without having to manage the players too .

    Best or POM for me but as a team we look a little light on natural leaders right now.

    That said I thought BOD was a bad choice as well and got that quite wrong.

    As an aside mentioning Heaslips Dads job is daft and you should go have a quite moment in the corner


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    #70
    Quint2010
    Registered Users Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭Quint2010


    Honestly dont think Heaslip should get it. Give it to Sexton.


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    #71
    Hagz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,257 ✭✭✭Hagz


    The only reason I wouldn't give it to Sexton is because he's the kicker. I don't like the idea of your kicker being your captain. Just because he'd be left with the ultimate decision of whether to kick to the corner or kick at goal. The amount of times he'd have to answer the question did you think you'd miss?


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    #72
    shootermacg
    Registered Users Posts: 4,843 ✭✭✭shootermacg


    Hagz wrote: »
    The only reason I wouldn't give it to Sexton is because he's the kicker. I don't like the idea of your kicker being your captain. Just because he'd be left with the ultimate decision of whether to kick to the corner or kick at goal. The amount of times he'd have to answer the question did you think you'd miss?

    Good point, the captain is generally a forward, and for good reason.


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    #73
    KingBrian2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    Hagz wrote: »
    The only reason I wouldn't give it to Sexton is because he's the kicker. I don't like the idea of your kicker being your captain. Just because he'd be left with the ultimate decision of whether to kick to the corner or kick at goal. The amount of times he'd have to answer the question did you think you'd miss?

    Is he not a bit too young to be Capt? Although experience is a lot more important.


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    #74
    rrpc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭rrpc


    kuang1 wrote: »
    And round and round we go.

    You're badgering me to express an opinion on something I really don't think I have any opinion of value.

    Being captain of a team isn't some sort of democratic decision expressed by fans.


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    #75
    Hagz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,257 ✭✭✭Hagz


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    Is he not a bit too young to be Capt? Although experience is a lot more important.

    I wouldn't call 30 too young no.


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    #76
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    Not Sexton.

    The chap is chronically shy, leave him to his kicking.

    Captain has far too much outside stuff


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    #77
    Hagz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,257 ✭✭✭Hagz


    efb wrote: »
    Not Sexton.

    The chap is chronically shy, leave him to his kicking.

    Captain has far too much outside stuff

    I wouldn't say he's shy. Just a quiet guy who doesn't have a high tolerance for bullsh*t. Which would tie into your point about too much outside stuff.


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    #78
    kuang1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,442 ✭✭✭kuang1


    rrpc wrote: »
    You're badgering me to express an opinion on something I really don't think I have any opinion of value.
    Apologies.
    rrpc wrote: »
    Being captain of a team isn't some sort of democratic decision expressed by fans.

    Don't think anyone could disagree with you. But I didn't see anyone suggest otherwise.


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    #79
    rrpc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭rrpc


    kuang1 wrote: »
    Apologies.


    Don't think anyone could disagree with you. But I didn't see anyone suggest otherwise.

    Fair enough and thanks.

    Whoever it is I'll be happy that the coach(es) know what they're doing.


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    #80
    Quint2010
    Registered Users Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭Quint2010


    I think Sexton would be a fantastic captain. World class player, guaranteed his place, respected by his team mates, can give a volley when needed. I reckon he would thrive on it,.


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    #81
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    Hagz wrote: »
    I wouldn't say he's shy. Just a quiet guy who doesn't have a high tolerance for bullsh*t. Which would tie into your point about too much outside stuff.

    He came across quite shy when I met him


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    #82
    shootermacg
    Registered Users Posts: 4,843 ✭✭✭shootermacg


    The captain can't be missing game winning kicks against the all blacks! ..I'll let myself out.


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    #83
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    A well written article by Duncan Casey on what made POC a great captain.

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rugby/duncan-casey-paulie-showed-true-value-of-leadership-others-can-follow-360957.html

    Here is a short extract from it:
    Good leaders combine a matter-of-fact approach with a positive mindset. Needless to say, Paul was an expert at this. You can criticise someone. That’s easy. It takes a lot of savvy to let someone know they’ve messed up without making them feel like a complete moron. If I overthrow a ball in training, it’s the difference between shouting ‘keep it down to ****’ and ‘great pace, just down a little bit’.

    They appreciate the knock-on effect that negativity can have on someone. This is particularly true when it comes to dealing with inexperienced players. If you haven’t racked up much game time, chances are you don’t have that elusive bit of self-assurance that puts you at ease. The last thing you need is a torrent of abuse from someone you look up to as you prepare for a huge opportunity at the weekend.

    I remember a clip from the last Lions tour to Australia when POC spoke to the team and told them that they needed to look out for Owen Farrell a bit better ... you could actually see Farrell grow in confidence as he was speaking ... which also reminds me, when Heaslip spoke they all just ignored him! Didn't Brad Thorn turn to Heaslip when at Leinster and told him 'less talking and more doing'!


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    #84
    rrpc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭rrpc


    jm08 wrote: »
    A well written article by Duncan Casey on what made POC a great captain.

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rugby/duncan-casey-paulie-showed-true-value-of-leadership-others-can-follow-360957.html

    Here is a short extract from it:



    I remember a clip from the last Lions tour to Australia when POC spoke to the team and told them that they needed to look out for Owen Farrell a bit better ... you could actually see Farrell grow in confidence as he was speaking ... which also reminds me, when Heaslip spoke they all just ignored him! Didn't Brad Thorn turn to Heaslip when at Leinster and told him 'less talking and more doing'!

    You misquoted POC there. He was praising Farrell for his workrate in the match and he was the youngest and showing the others up.

    Brad Thorn's quote never identified the player concerned...


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    #85
    shootermacg
    Registered Users Posts: 4,843 ✭✭✭shootermacg


    jm08 wrote: »
    A well written article by Duncan Casey on what made POC a great captain.

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rugby/duncan-casey-paulie-showed-true-value-of-leadership-others-can-follow-360957.html

    Here is a short extract from it:



    I remember a clip from the last Lions tour to Australia when POC spoke to the team and told them that they needed to look out for Owen Farrell a bit better ... you could actually see Farrell grow in confidence as he was speaking ... which also reminds me, when Heaslip spoke they all just ignored him! Didn't Brad Thorn turn to Heaslip when at Leinster and told him 'less talking and more doing'!

    Good find!

    The captain has to be senior, well liked and a good talker, which narrows things down a bit, I think the nearest we'll come to that would be Best.

    The one possibility here is, some players possibly don't want to be captain.


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    #86
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    I know its a while now since I saw the Lions dvd, but did he not say something about them not protecting him enough as well?

    Anyway, you could visible see Farrell grow in confidence.


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    #87
    bilston
    Registered Users Posts: 17,769 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    jm08 wrote: »
    A well written article by Duncan Casey on what made POC a great captain.

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rugby/duncan-casey-paulie-showed-true-value-of-leadership-others-can-follow-360957.html

    Here is a short extract from it:



    I remember a clip from the last Lions tour to Australia when POC spoke to the team and told them that they needed to look out for Owen Farrell a bit better ... you could actually see Farrell grow in confidence as he was speaking ... which also reminds me, when Heaslip spoke they all just ignored him! Didn't Brad Thorn turn to Heaslip when at Leinster and told him 'less talking and more doing'!

    Aye I remember seeing something like that. It was after the game in Hong Kong I think. You could literally see Farrell barely contain his glee as Paulie spoke. I remember thinking it was great stuff. Of course POC was universally respected, not everyone saying thoae words would have got that response from Farrell.


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    #88
    duckysauce
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭duckysauce


    Quint2010 wrote: »
    I think Sexton would be a fantastic captain. World class player, guaranteed his place, respected by his team mates, can give a volley when needed. I reckon he would thrive on it,.

    wasn't respected by his team mates in RM


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    #89
    vienne86
    Registered Users Posts: 17,075 ✭✭✭✭vienne86


    duckysauce wrote: »
    wasn't respected by his team mates in RM

    Maybe not, but I can't imagine him NOT being well respected in the Irish camp.


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    #90
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    Sexton's too grouchy to be a Captain


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    #91
    WarZ
    Closed Accounts Posts: 972 ✭✭✭WarZ


    duckysauce wrote: »
    wasn't respected by his team mates in RM

    RM is a basket case club where the players couldn't give two hoots about the club.

    Sexton ruffled feathers among his team mates because he wouldn't look away to their unprofessionalism and lack of dedication.

    Jonathan Sexton is a proven winner and would make a fantastic captain. He is a good bloke (not one to go out looking for fights when out on the piss like a certain young contender being mentioned here), is well liked and respected, is actually world class and is guaranteed his place in the team for the considerable future.

    The only player that comes close to this criteria is Jamie Heaslip although some people seem to think he's not liked or respected which is crazy considering the number of coaches who have put him in a captaincy or vice captaincy role.

    I know O'Connell was a great captain but he did have his share of incidents. He messed up a lot of times with referees and knocked an Ulster second row out cold at a training session leading to a mass brawl while the victim had a seizure on the pitch. No one is infallible but Sexton is the closest player on the Irish team to having a spotless record IMO.


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