Next Irish captain

jm08

LorMal wrote: »

Christ, that's a horrific story. He sounds contrite. Still, didn't stop him nearly decapitating Dave Kearney. Not an admirable part of his personality.

If you read what he said, he did learn from his mistakes and hasn't hit anyone in training since.

He addresses the Dave Kearney incident here. It wasn't deliberate.

PK: What about the Dave Kearney incident?
(Last April, during Munster's Pro12 clash with Leinster, O'Connell was scrambling to clear a ball with his boot when he caught Kearney in the head and left him concussed.)


POC: Look, I probably misjudged it and assumed that everyone, without a shadow of a doubt, would assume it was 100 per cent accidental.


PK: There was a lot of niggle in that game.


POC: You are not going to play your closest rivals and not have a bit of niggle but that incident wasn't niggle.


PK: Did you watch it afterwards?


POC: Yeah, and it looked worse than I'd remembered it. I knew straight away that I'd caught him but I didn't realise I'd knocked him out. He was out (of action) for a while. I kept looking for his name on the Leinster teamsheet but it didn't crop up for weeks, which was obviously very frustrating for him.


PK: Joe Schmidt felt you should have been cited.


POC: Yeah, and I had close friends who felt I should have been cited as well, or that it should have been looked at, and I respect their opinion. But my point of view is this: the argument is that a punishment would stop you doing it again but how does a punishment stop you from doing something that was 100 per cent accidental?

Teferi

jm08 wrote: »

POC: Look, I probably misjudged it and assumed that everyone, without a shadow of a doubt, would assume it was 100 per cent accidental.

Breaking news: Guilty man says he is innocent.

Not even sure why you're defending it tbh (actually, that's a lie - I know why you're defending it), he got away free because there was a Euro game on the horizon.

rrpc

jm08 wrote: »

POC: Yeah, and I had close friends who felt I should have been cited as well, or that it should have been looked at, and I respect their opinion. But my point of view is this: the argument is that a punishment would stop you doing it again but how does a punishment stop you from doing something that was 100 per cent accidental?

Always thought that was accidental. Locks should never attempt to kick the ball. It almost always ends in disaster.

jm08

Teferi wrote: »

Breaking news: Guilty man says he is innocent.

Not even sure why you're defending it tbh (actually, that's a lie - I know why you're defending it), he got away free because there was a Euro game on the horizon.

You seriously think that Paul O'Connell deliberately kicked Dave Kearney in the head?

Bridge93

jm08 wrote: »

You seriously think that Paul O'Connell deliberately kicked Dave Kearney in the head?

He obviously did it to try knock (literally) the competition out to get Zebo in the Irish team. Alas it did not work and Joe once Irish coach, aware of this dastardly scheme, made sure Dave Kearney always started for Ireland ahead of Zebo.

This may not be true

captbarnacles

Read it all. Very interesting interview. Part about the punch was sickening

Teferi

jm08 wrote: »

You seriously think that Paul O'Connell deliberately kicked Dave Kearney in the head?

A little from column A, a little from column B. He certainly wasn't innocent.

Hagz

Of course he didn't mean to kick him in the head.

Th0mas Shelby

I've just spent the last 20 minutes reading through this thread and some of the comments are absolutely nonsensical.

1. The posts about Heaslip's fathers job. Absolutely absurd. Cannot fathom why that would be brought up in conversation. There is more than enough from Heaslip's career to point to to support an argument for International Captaincy without resorting to what his fathers occupation is

2. The digs being taken at Paul O'Connell. I cannot understand the mindset of people to arrive in and drag up irrelevant stuff about arguably Ireland's greatest ever leader and player. As far as I can see this thread is entitled "Next Ireland Captain". Dragging up nonsense like this does not advance the conversation.

duskyjoe

dubal wrote: »

I though Heaslip was the obvious choice

Soft as sand IMO as a Capt. Great player etc but doesn't hold that special mantle like Paulie et al that people look up to. Just my 2c folks.....

1eg0a3xv7b82of

schmidt picked heaslip so he must trust in heaslips leadership.

Take this scenario-

If POC, SOM, POM, Payne and Sexton has been available for the Argie game BUT Murray, Heaslip, Best, Henshaw and Ross had not, do posters here think we would have than beaten Argentina.
Result would have been the same, no international rugby team can lose 1/3 of their first 15 and not struggle over 80 minutes in a WC QF.

The 2 pluses for Heaslip and Best, they are never really injured and they are 2 of our better players, so either would be a good choice as captain.

former total

Th0mas Shelby wrote: »

2. The digs being taken at Paul O'Connell. I cannot understand the mindset of people to arrive in and drag up irrelevant stuff about arguably Ireland's greatest ever leader and player. As far as I can see this thread is entitled "Next Ireland Captain". Dragging up nonsense like this does not advance the conversation.

It is relevant.

Like, if we went back in time a few years and were debating who should take over from O'Driscoll, POC's name would be top of most lists, right? But if we'd known about this Caldwell incident at the time, it would be absolutely legitimate to say, "hang on, this guy almost killed a teammate for going offside at a ruck in a training match, is he really captain material?" Add in the Dave Kearney incident, the Jonathan Thomas incident, Cudmore etc, and you could easily make a case that this guy has a screw loose and is not fit to be captain. Except we know he's a great captain.

So likewise, the spurious criticisms being thrown about here about the various candidates (well, Heaslip) don't matter a damn, none of us really know what makes a great captain and who the best candidate is. The POC stories just highlight that even more.

LorMal

Th0mas Shelby wrote: »

I've just spent the last 20 minutes reading through this thread and some of the comments are absolutely nonsensical.

1. The posts about Heaslip's fathers job. Absolutely absurd. Cannot fathom why that would be brought up in conversation. There is more than enough from Heaslip's career to point to to support an argument for International Captaincy without resorting to what his fathers occupation is

2. The digs being taken at Paul O'Connell. I cannot understand the mindset of people to arrive in and drag up irrelevant stuff about arguably Ireland's greatest ever leader and player. As far as I can see this thread is entitled "Next Ireland Captain". Dragging up nonsense like this does not advance the conversation.

Did you read about the punch? You may not like it, but it's not nonsense - it happened. As POC is our retiring captain, it's relevant to the discussion, if a bit transgental.
As I posted earlier, I would like to see us starting a new cycle with a fresh approach to the captaincy. To my mind, Iain Henderson would make an excellent captain.

aimee1

duskyjoe wrote: »

Soft as sand IMO as a Capt. Great player etc but doesn't hold that special mantle like Paulie et al that people look up to. Just my 2c folks.....

not many people in world rugby will match up to POC as a leader/captain

People expecting Heaslip or anyone else in the irish squad to do likewise are foolish IMO

shootermacg

Why do these threads always end up in the gutter?

shootermacg

shootermacg wrote: »

Why do these threads always end up in the gutter?

You could tell from the second it was posted that was the way it was going.

If anyone wants to know what this thread is about:

1. Heaslip is soft and isn't a captain. No proof or insight needed, opinion based prejudice is more than enough.

2. O'Connell is the de facto model for a captain, bar when he lost his temper that 7 times.

3. Everyone seems happy with Best.

jacothelad

Th0mas Shelby wrote: »

I've just spent the last 20 minutes reading through this thread and some of the comments are absolutely nonsensical.

1. The posts about Heaslip's fathers job. Absolutely absurd. Cannot fathom why that would be brought up in conversation. There is more than enough from Heaslip's career to point to to support an argument for International Captaincy without resorting to what his fathers occupation is

2. The digs being taken at Paul O'Connell. I cannot understand the mindset of people to arrive in and drag up irrelevant stuff about arguably Ireland's greatest ever leader and player. As far as I can see this thread is entitled "Next Ireland Captain". Dragging up nonsense like this does not advance the conversation.

Really? Better player than BOD? Gibson? Kyle? Better captain than McBride? Certainly one of the best but sweeping statements such as yours are not really adding to the argument. POC as a player had many great attributes and as a leader very few could compare. If you has said 'in the professional era,' it might be more supportable. However, being all those things doesn't mean that contributors here shouldn't air their legitimate views on what makes a good captain and what might detract from the narrative. Also, repeating facts about a player's attitude and some of those actions of his isn't the same as 'Dragging up nonsense.'

captbarnacles

Deleted User wrote: »

You could tell from the second it was posted that was the way it was going.

If anyone wants to know what this thread is about:

1. Heaslip is soft and isn't a captain. No proof or insight needed, opinion based prejudice is more than enough.

2. O'Connell is the de facto model for a captain, bar when he lost his temper that 7 times.

3. Everyone seems happy with Best.

Thought I remembered some Ulster posters saying he didn't manage refs well.

Neil3030

shootermacg wrote: »

Why do these threads always end up in the gutter?

Commenting on personal issues of people we don't know, and how they'd do a job we don't know how is done well, in a context none of us are familiar with.

How could it NOT end up in the gutter? :pac:

.ak

Well shame on me for expecting more from the rest of you...

The usual personal attack and nonsense is rife here.