Nissan XE vs SV and PCP or not PCP

TBi

If they bring out a monthly fee for the chargers then that will put me off electric. I'd only use a fast charger a couple of times a year.

Also if there is a set rate then people who hog fast chargers will continue to do so. It has to be per watt/ per minute charging.

They can have per month billing for those heavy users and offer them discounts per Kwh and charge people more once it reached 80%.

Then have a higher Kwh cost for those who want to pay as they use.

BoatMad

The uncertainty over FCP charges is very annoying as I come to buy a leaf. I cant see the point of three charge systems, and equally since when is electricity billed by the minute, that would be crazy

Villain

Charging a monthly fee for access to the chargers would be the biggest mistake they could make and by god they have already made a few!

They need a stable network, with live up to the minute data from chargers to their map for months before they should consider charging, charging for the existing network is crazy and will kill any momentum that EV's here have.

Charging a fixed monthly fee will only encourage people to use chargers adding to queues already in busy areas plus my monthly usage on night rate electricity is only a little more per month that the rumoured €17

They will also need to re-issue all RFID cards as they are easy to copy and people could just share one if they have the flat fee.

Are ESB ecars that stupid??

Eah, that's a monthly charge + electricity so the rumour goes anyway.

BoatMad

It's nuts. Why even release only part of the cost structure. That's even more nuts.

They have to publish the FCP price structure as well.

This will kill EV sales in this quarter unless ESB comes clean

I'm seriously re thinking my purchase

That's the point, they haven't release any statement regarding costs.

I don't think billing will start in January at all. But no one knows.

I will e-mail my contact in the ESB this weekend and point him towards a few threads and maybe they can rethink having a flat monthly charge.

They need PM charge and reduced KWH for high users and no per month charge and higher Kwh for low users like me.

A flat charge will promote abuse again, like free charging does now because if people are paying a monthly cost they will think "sure I may as well get some value out of it "

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

That's the point, they haven't release any statement regarding costs.

I don't think billing will start in January at all. But no one knows.

I will e-mail my contact in the ESB this weekend and point him towards a few threads and maybe they can rethink having a flat monthly charge.

They need PM charge and reduced KWH for high users and no per month charge and higher Kwh for low users like me.

A flat charge will promote abuse again, like free charging does now because if people are paying a monthly cost they will think "sure I may as well get some value out of it "

Well clearly, the ESB has released the printed document outlying monthly charges. That's clearly not rumour

There should be no monthly charges. Merely a fixed kWh cost . Just like petrol , you pay for what you use nothing more or nothing less

Remember the monthly fee + free usage only applies to April for FCP and end f 2016 for rapid chargers. After that we will have a monthly fee AND some usage charges TOGETHER

nokia69

BoatMad wrote: »

There should be no monthly charges. Merely a fixed kWh cost . Just like petrol , you pay for what you use nothing more or nothing less

I agree with this its the way to go, but I would add a charge for cars that stay plugged in for too long, maybe people should pay by the hour not by the KWh

anyway I don't think the ESB will rip people off, every electric car sold makes them thousands over the life of the car, I bet they have ran the numbers and know how much extra a year the average Leaf driver is worth to them, in a few years electric cars will be every where, its in their interest to be as fair as possible

BoatMad

nokia69 wrote: »

I agree with this its the way to go, but I would add a charge for cars that stay plugged in for too long, maybe people should pay by the hour not by the KWh

anyway I don't think the ESB will rip people off, every electric car sold makes them thousands over the life of the car, I bet they have ran the numbers and know how much extra a year the average Leaf driver is worth to them, in a few years electric cars will be every where, its in their interest to be as fair as possible

17 quid a month PLUS charges is ripping you off .

there should be no per minute charging , that unfairly penalises certain battery/charger configurations that are outside user control.

to control time at charging points , for FCP , enforce a max time or 80% cutoff

nokia69

BoatMad wrote: »

17 quid a month PLUS charges is ripping you off

I agree, but I'm not sure if it will happen

BoatMad wrote: »

there should be no per minute charging , that unfairly penalises certain battery/charger configurations that are outside user control.

well what I really mean is people plug in a car and just walk away, the car is 100% charged and then sits there for an other hour or more, giving no benefit to anyone

There needs to be a Kwh charge and an extra Kwh charge over 80% on the fast chargers.

TBi

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There needs to be a Kwh charge and an extra Kwh charge over 80% on the fast chargers.

And per minute 'parking' cost over 100% charge so people don't just leave the car there for hours.

BoatMad

Padraig Mor wrote: »

I'd be very surprised if the free charge point offer ended.

Re 'charging for charging', what I've read (which is, at best, not finalised) is that there will be three 'tiers' or similar. A = no monthly fee, but a high unit rate. B = lowish monthly fee, and moderate unit rate. C = higher fee, with no unit charging. This is apparently for fast chargers only; standard ones remain free. For new owners from January, and existing ones from summer. Personally, I think it's too soon and could kilk the undoubted recent surge in EV sales stone dead. I haven't had much trouble accessing FCPs though; I could well think differently if I did.

Well , releasing only part of the charging scheme , is just nuts as it leaves people in the dark as to the totality of the pricing regime. If I didn't beleive in the stupidly of Irish state utility companies , I say it's a kite flying excercise. ESB need to clarify this position immediately

Padraig Mor

BoatMad wrote: »

Well , releasing only part of the charging scheme , is just nuts as it leaves people in the dark as to the totality of the pricing regime. If I didn't beleive in the stupidly of Irish state utility companies , I say it's a kite flying excercise. ESB need to clarify this position immediately

I'd imagine my information was inaccurate / out of date. Looks like the €17/month is official to me - why would they bother printing up the promo material unless it's all agreed? Only thing we'd see much change in would be implementation date I'd say.

I still think it's going to cause a big problem with new EV sales (and residuals for those currently on the road). Personally I think it should be along the lines of subscription of €5 per month, plus billing at your home rate for SCPs, and home rate plus 10 - 20% for FCP. Separate PAYG rate for occasional / visitor use.

Villain

It will kell EV sales if they proceed with this plan, the €17 a month crazy, imagine paying petrol stations for the right to use pumps as well as paying for the petrol??

Also the hardware is not reliable enough and the management software even after the new update won't show what chargers are in use.

They also need to issue everyone with new RFID cards as the current ones are not secure.

thierry14

Can the Esb charge extra for electricty used for charging EV's?

Could they bring in a rule that if an appliance uses more than say 5kwh or something they could charge extra?

Puts stress on the infrastructure etc as a reason.

Seems a bit crazy long term that electricy cost per unit would be the same for household appliances and for EV's

If say 50% of cars were electric.

Just seems like u can be screwed at anytime now with EV's

BoatMad

thierry14 wrote: »

Can the Esb charge extra for electricty used for charging EV's?

Could they bring in a rule that if an appliance uses more than say 5kwh or something they could charge extra?

Puts stress on the infrastructure etc as a reason.

Seems a bit crazy long term that electricy cost per unit would be the same for household appliances and for EV's

If say 50% of cars were electric.

Just seems like u can be screwed at anytime now with EV's

The ESB can set any unit rate for any supply type they like.

Yes we've handed EV charging to a monopoly

TBi

TBi wrote: »

And per minute 'parking' cost over 100% charge so people don't just leave the car there for hours.

Yeah there should be perking charges over 100% billed on the leccy account. That's a good idea !

See this is why I say having the 6.6 Kwh charger is so much more useful. Far less trips to the fast chargers and you get to free up a standard street charger in half the time.

The ESB should request that Nissan drop the 3.3 kw charger because it's a complete waste of our pretty good AC charger network.

Villain

Deleted User wrote: »

The ESB should request that Nissan drop the 3.3 kw charger because it's a complete waste of our pretty good AC charger network.

Sorry but that is just nonsense, I have a 3.3 Kwh SVE and I would have zero use for the 6.6 Kwh option and I say that having the Leaf over 1 year. It suits some people but certainly not all!

Villain

Villain wrote: »

Sorry but that is just nonsense, I have a 3.3 Kwh SVE and I would have zero use for the 6.6 Kwh option and I say that having the Leaf over 1 year. It suits some people but certainly not all!

If you use public chargers it is highly useful. If a lot more people had it it would mean far less demand for the fast chargers.

Villain

Deleted User wrote: »

If you use public chargers it is highly useful. If a lot more people had it it would mean far less demand for the fast chargers.

Yes as I said it suits some people but saying Nissan shouldn't sell the 3.3 version is crazy.

Villain

Villain wrote: »

Yes as I said it suits some people but saying Nissan shouldn't sell the 3.3 version is crazy.

They shouldn't sell the 3.3 kw. One of the most important things about EV ownership is the ability to charge as fast as possible when you need to.

The 6.6 can charge at 3.3 Kw if you need to.

The 6.6 kw should be standard, saying you do without it is easy when you don't have it. I don't use it much but I'm damn glad of it when I use it.

Why waste our pretty good AC infrastructure ? why have people plugged in charging at half the power taking twice as long to charge hogging a charge point for much longer ? "that's crazy"

The 6.6 Kw should be standard.

Villain

Deleted User wrote: »

They shouldn't sell the 3.3 kw. One of the most important things about EV ownership is the ability to charge as fast as possible when you need to.

The 6.6 can charge at 3.3 Kw if you need to.

The 6.6 kw should be standard, saying you do without it is easy when you don't have it. I don't use it much but I'm damn glad of it when I use it.

Why waste our pretty good AC infrastructure ? why have people plugged in charging at half the power taking twice as long to charge hogging a charge point for much longer ? "that's crazy"

The 6.6 Kw should be standard.

You are making silly assumptions, I have charged 99% of the time at home and the other 1% was fast chargers so tell me how a 6.6 Kw would benefit me?

Villain

Villain wrote: »

You are making silly assumptions, I have charged 99% of the time at home and the other 1% was fast chargers so tell me how a 6.6 Kw would benefit me?

It doesn't benefit you I suppose if you insist.

Ok so people have the choice but to be honest they're being talked out of considering the 6.6 Kw by dealers just because they only order the 3.3 Kw in the first place to keep the list price a bit cheaper and to make sure people buy what's in stock. Barlo Nissan in Kilkenny being a good example of this !

Then people need to use the DC network a lot more and if the use the AC chargers they're taking up a charge point for twice as long as they need to if they had the 6.6 Kw.

Villain

Deleted User wrote: »

It doesn't benefit you I suppose if you insist.

Ok so people have the choice but to be honest they're being talked out of considering the 6.6 Kw by dealers just because they only order the 3.3 Kw in the first place to keep the list price a bit cheaper and to make sure people buy what's in stock. Barlo Nissan in Kilkenny being a good example of this !

Then people need to use the DC network a lot more and if the use the AC chargers they're taking up a charge point for twice as long as they need to if they had the 6.6 Kw.

It depends on how people use the car, anyone that has asked me I have said if you need to rely on using public chargers then forget about it. Due to all the issues people report on a regular basis and the time wasted charging.

My use is perfect for the current range, charge nightly at home and commute with comfort each day and then use my wife's diesel car when going beyond range.

I like the Leaf and it costs me less than €20 per month for charging, my main issue is the issues Nissan have had with Carwings, my SVE has heated seats and heated steering wheel etc, being able to turn that on with the heater via a phone app is great, sadly the system has fallen flat due to issues on severs servicing Europe, although they are moving away from Carwings next year.

Villain

Villain wrote: »

It depends on how people use the car, anyone that has asked me I have said if you need to rely on using public chargers then forget about it. Due to all the issues people report on a regular basis and the time wasted charging.

I was doing all of 134 Kms daily before I got the work charge point with the Nass QC 10 min charge got me home with 20-25% left. I wouldn't call it a waste of time considering what I'm saving over ICE.

Send a few texts, check up on the news or a page or two of Engadget and before you know it 15 mins gone past. People spend time in far worse ways. Yes I had issues with people shopping but overall the experience was positive.

Ruairi.g

Regarding chargers, am I correct in saying that nissan supply a 3.3kw charging lead with the car and the people who supply the home charger fit a new charger wired from the circuit board with a dedicated 16amp mcb.
Why cant they supply the home charger with a 32 amp mcb, the difference in cost is insignificant. I see charging cables can be bought in the UK for approximately £160. Is this spurious uk charger any good. I know these are questions that have possibly been discussed before, but I am new to the conversation about electric vehicles. Forgive my ignorance please!!

stesaurus

For a Leaf you'd have to have the upgraded 6.6kW on-board charger to take advantage of a 32a home charger or even the public slow chargers.
ESB are reluctant to provide 32a home chargers as there are a lot of homes badly wired and not readily capable of the additional load. 16a is deemed acceptable and shouldnt stress things too much.
I'd say most Leafs sold are only 3.3kW anyway so I see their point.

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

I was doing all of 134 Kms daily before I got the work charge point with the Nass QC 10 min charge got me home with 20-25% left. I wouldn't call it a waste of time considering what I'm saving over ICE.

Send a few texts, check up on the news or a page or two of Engadget and before you know it 15 mins gone past. People spend time in far worse ways. Yes I had issues with people shopping but overall the experience was positive.

Yes and at 30 cents per minute charging as proposed, that Engadget check will cost you 5 euros !!!