Could I do a sub-4 hour Marathon in 2016?

jasonb

Hi Kenny,

Thanks for that. I should have explained, the only reason it was 28k this last week was it was the first time I'd done three runs! This week I'll be back to two, so probably around 20k. Once I get a third one in regularly, I'll get that number back up again. But for the moment, I'm just looking at 2 runs a week.

Thanks...

J.

jasonb

Well, another week done!

Had a great run on Tuesday (my 'hard' run night). I decided, instead of running around 6:05 pace and then pushing it for the last 3k or so, I'd try to run a little faster the whole distance, and see how that worked. So my goal was to do each km in less than 6:00 pace.

It went pretty well, though I found myself keeping an eye on my watch a fair bit, and my pace was a bit up and down. Probably partly because it was a little faster for me, so I wasn't in my usual rhythm. Anyhow, I did 10.3km in 59:17 (5:46 pace), and the 10k time was 57:38, so I'm quite happy with that! And I also did each km in less than 6:00, anything from 5:33 to 5:58 per km. My previous PB for 10k was 58:50, so that's over a minute less than that.

It was a tough run for me, but I actually felt fine the next today, which surprised me. This evening was my 'easy' run, and I aimed to do about 9k or so with the group, but we ended up cutting it short as the paths were quite icy and it was really awkward to run in places, we could feel it in our calves from running differently to stay light on our feet! I still did 8:06km, in a nice and easy 51:22 (6:22 pace) and I was glad to get out of the cold.

I do feel like I've made some progress, my first run, back in October, was 5k in over 31mins, and I can now do 10k in 57:38, so that's about 30secs a km quicker, over twice the distance! I have to say, it's nice to feel like I'm actually beginning to get fit, or at least fitter...

J.

jasonb

Another 'end of week' update:

My hard run on Tuesday this week was really enjoyable; for want of a better explanation I just felt like a runner! While I met up with the club as usual, I ended up doing most of it on my own, as the really fast guys went ahead of me, and another group of a few runners were waiting for someone who was late. So off I went, determined to push myself just that little bit more.

And that I did, doing 10.88k in 61:43. That's 5:40 pace, which I'm very happy with, especially as around the 10k mark was uphill. 5:51 was the slowest 1k I did, and I still managed to finish strong. After that run my Garmin told me I'd broken all five PBs (Fastest 1k, Fastest 1m, Fastest 5k, Fastest 10k and Longest Run) so that was a nice little reward!

My easy run last night was 8.55k in 51:53, which is 6:04 pace. It's funny that a pace of 6:04 is now 'easy'. I could feel my legs a little after Tuesday's run, and it was rather windy last night, but in the end the run was fine.

I've decided to mix it up a little next week. I can't run on Tuesday, but on Sunday or Monday I'll go out, and I'll make my hard run a little shorter this time, I'm going to do a 5k, and see what time I can do it in. I haven't done 'just' a 5k in over a month, so I thought it would be good to change up a little. I'll do my usual easy run on the Thursday.

I still have to figure out my free-time to start running 3 times a week, but I'm not stressing about it too much yet. Right now I'm enjoying running and I don't want to lose that enjoyment by focusing on the DCM in October too much, if that makes sense. When I ran it in 2006, I did my first 10k on the 1st of July, so I'm clearly well ahead of the curve from that year, so I'm giving myself time to enjoy it, form the habit of running and slowly increasing it.

J.

jasonb

Just a quick update. It's all kinda gone to pot, as a couple of days after my last post I got a woeful cold and I've been fighting it ever since and haven't run at all. I'm still trying to shake it off, but I'm hopeful I can go for a run on Thursday and start getting back into it. It's very annoying, as I really felt like I'd got into a rhythm with my running!

Thanks...

J.

Kennyg71

That's a pity J, but all the time in the world at moment, DCM main
Event.

Kennyg71

That's a pity J, but all the time in the world at moment, DCM main
Event.

jasonb

Thanks Kenny, it's just very frustrating as I'd basically run a few weeks in a row without missing any, and I could feel the improvement. But hopefully I'll ease back into it tomorrow, and then take it from there!

J.

jasonb

Well, I'm back in the saddle, so to speak...

I went out for a run with the club last Thursday. Deliberately took it easy as it was my first in three weeks, and I needed to as well, as I found it tough, just out of practise I guess. But I did 7.89k in 6:00 pace, so that wasn't too bad, and it was good to be running again.

Last night was my 'tough' run, though it was mainly tough because it was just a miserable night out. Constant rain and wind. But I did 11.2k, my first time breaking the 11k mark. I did it in 5:47 pace, which is a little off the 5:40 pace I'd got up to for my hard run, but I was happy enough with it. The run itself was meant to be around the 10.6k mark, but I decided to keep going to add a little bit to the end; I was already out and soaked and cold and tired, sure I might as well make the most of it and break 11k!

So I'm back, and will be doing another easy run tomorrow night. Another week of getting back on track and I can get back to my earlier goal of trying a 5k to see how I get on.

Thanks...

J.

jasonb

Struggled with my run last night, even though it was the 'easy' one. I could just feel Tuesday's run in my legs, so it was tough. Just out of habit of running twice in 3 days I guess.

Anyhow, I did 10.25k in 6:03 pace, so it wasn't too bad, but I was very happy to finish!

J.

Kennyg71

jasonb wrote: »

Struggled with my run last night, even though it was the 'easy' one. I could just feel Tuesday's run in my legs, so it was tough. Just out of habit of running twice in 3 days I guess.

Anyhow, I did 10.25k in 6:03 pace, so it wasn't too bad, but I was very happy to finish!

J.

You get days like that all right, when u get on Marathon Program u will
be running 3 days back to back midweek & two at weekend, so worth
getting used to now, your legs will be constantly tired:)

jasonb

Me again...

Bit of a while since my last update, sorry!

I had my tough run last Tuesday (23rd) and it had been a long day, so I really wasn't looking forward to it. But off I went, and it turned out to be a great one! For once I wasn't left on my own after a couple of k, as I'd increased my pace slightly, so I could always see 2 or 3 runners together in the distance. When I got to around the 7k mark or so I was feeling ok, despite the slightly quicker pace, and I decided to see if I could catch up with them, which I managed to do (I even caught up with them going up a hill). After that I stayed with them 'til the end, the first time I haven't finished on my own since I moved up to the '10k' group. I was very happy with myself, and even though it wasn't a full 10k, I did 9.65k in 5:34 pace, which I was delighted with!

I didn't run on Thursday night as I'd donated Platelets that evening, but I decided to go for a 5k with my nephew over the weekend, as I was visiting him in London. So we did 5k on Sunday morning, doing a great run in the city centre, starting at the Tower of London and running over Tower Bridge, past H.M.S. Belfast, the Shard, the Globe Theatre, over the Millennium Bridge and past St. Paul's Catherdral and the Monument. Such a cool sight-seeing run, though we started too fast (he's younger/fitter than I am) and I was struggling in the end. Still, we did 5.06k in 26:47, which was a new PB for me, and I was very happy with the 5:18 pace (it was basically 26:29 for the exact 5k, so that's nearly 5 mins quicker than 5 months ago!). Good to mix it up and do a 5k again.

Going back out tonight for my Tuesday run, though my legs are still tired from the weekend (not just the run, but the whole weekend), so it might not be a 'hard run'. But I will get 3 runs done in 5 days, so that's cool.

J.

jasonb

Quicker update this time.

Did my run tonight, and as it was my 'hard' run, I tried to push myself, though I could feel my calves a little from the weekend.

Decided to see if I could break 56mins for 10k, so I decided that I'd stop my Garmin once I hit 10k (the run was about 10.3k). Kept the pace up and didn't feel too bad, though around the 7k mark I found it tough. But I was running with the club organiser and he kept me going.

I hung on 'til the 10k and then stopped the Garmin and slowed down for the last couple of hundred metres, which I found really tough 'cos I slowed down! Anyhow, I was very happy to see that I'd done the 10k in 54:51, so I well beat 56mins! 5:29 pace, and very much a new PB. Not bad after doing a 5k on Sunday

Next run is Thursday, and that's an easy run so I won't be pushing anything during that one.

J.

jasonb

A final update for the week...

Did my 'easy' run last night, which was thankfully after the rain and before the snow! It was fine, I did 9k in 51:51, 5:45 pace (it's mad to think that 5:45 pace is 'easy' now). Nothing too strenuous, and my legs weren't too bad thankfully. So, after three runs in five days, I'm looking forward to a few days off!

I'm also signing up for a couple of races, just to have events/goals to look forward to. I'm signing up for the Great Ireland Run, it's the 10k one but I won't be going for a PB as I'm running with a friend of mine and it's just going to be a social run. I've also signed up for a 5k run in Russborough House which is in aid of a local school, and I might see if I can beat my 26:29 for that!

J.

jasonb

Once again a bit of a while since my last update.

Not a lot to report really, unfortunately I didn't get to run at all last week as life got in the way. I need to be careful not to let that happen too much, I want to stay in the habit of running.

However, I did get to play a round of golf on Friday (very rare for me) and out of curiosity I brought my Garmin. I walked 11.8k, which surprised me (though a good golfer would walk a much shorter, more direct route!) and I could feel it in my legs (and arms/back) afterwards!

Then, to get back in the saddle so to speak, I did a Pop-Up Races 5k in Kilcullen yesterday. It went pretty well actually, I pushed myself a bit and while the last bit was tough (and uphill) I did it in 25:30, so I'm very happy with that, a new PB and a minute cut off my last 5k. I'll probably aim for sub 25mins in the 5k in Russborough.

I've got my usual 'hard' run tomorrow evening, but I'm going to make it an easy one instead, as my legs are quite sore. Am also arranging a 5k with a friend of mine for this weekend. If I'm not careful, I might slip into running 3 times a week without anyone noticing...

J.

Ososlo

Well done on the 5k pb!

However, you really do need to be laying a good solid foundation of consistent running at this point if you have any chance of going sub 4 or anywhere near it by October. These are the key months for laying your base. You want to be building up to at least 4 days of running by the time the plan starts and you want to be very easily able to run the first week of the plan without any problems.
Good luck with it!

jasonb

To be honest, my focus has moved a little away from the marathon 'goal' to just running and enjoying it. That's not to say I've given up on doing the marathon, but I do want running to become a habit for me, and one I enjoy, so I'm working on that first, before making the marathon call.

I do know that if I do decide to do a marathon, the training plan will be a big part of my life for a few months, so I need to make sure I'm happy with that, and that I can fit it in with my life.

One question though. While it wasn't sub-4 hours, or anywhere near it, I did the 2006 marathon in 4:25, and that year I hadn't run at all until March, my first ever 5k was in early May, and my first ever 10k was on the 1st July. I'm not in any way saying that what I did in 2006 was ideal (and I was also 10 years younger!), but exactly how essential is it that I'm running approx. 40k a week (split over 3 or 4 days a week) by June/July if I want to have any chance of getting under 4 hours in October?

There are so many different marathon plans out there (some based on 3 or 4 days a week training, some on 6 days a week) that I don't really know what I should be aiming for. In my head, I think if I'm running 3 times a week, at around 30k+ a week come June/July, I'll be in much better condition than I was 10 years ago, if I do decide to go for the marathon. Whether that better condition will translate into 25 mins off my time, I don't know...

J.

Ososlo

jasonb wrote: »

To be honest, my focus has moved a little away from the marathon 'goal' to just running and enjoying it. That's not to say I've given up on doing the marathon, but I do want running to become a habit for me, and one I enjoy, so I'm working on that first, before making the marathon call.

I do know that if I do decide to do a marathon, the training plan will be a big part of my life for a few months, so I need to make sure I'm happy with that, and that I can fit it in with my life.

One question though. While it wasn't sub-4 hours, or anywhere near it, I did the 2006 marathon in 4:25, and that year I hadn't run at all until March, my first ever 5k was in early May, and my first ever 10k was on the 1st July. I'm not in any way saying that what I did in 2006 was ideal (and I was also 10 years younger!), but exactly how essential is it that I'm running approx. 40k a week (split over 3 or 4 days a week) by June/July if I want to have any chance of getting under 4 hours in October?

There are so many different marathon plans out there (some based on 3 or 4 days a week training, some on 6 days a week) that I don't really know what I should be aiming for. In my head, I think if I'm running 3 times a week, at around 30k+ a week come June/July, I'll be in much better condition than I was 10 years ago, if I do decide to go for the marathon. Whether that better condition will translate into 25 mins off my time, I don't know...

J.

No harm at all in changing your mind and just getting a good running habit going before committing to a marathon. What's another year...
You could concentrate on 5 and 10ks for a while and build up to a half later on in the year. It's good to have an open mind about it!

If you do decide to do the marathon this year, I just think you'll be making things an awful lot easier for yourself by getting out more consistently now. You said your first marathon was one of the hardest things you've ever done physically and mentally, but why take the chance of possibly having a bad experience again if you can just put the work in now and enjoy the next one a lot more. The more you can manage to do now (building sensibly of course!), the easier it'll be on the day and the less chance you'll have of getting an injury in training.

Were you fit from other sports 10 years ago when you did the last marathon? It was a pretty decent time for someone so new to running! Do you have the same level of fitness now do you think?

There will be a DCM Mentored Novice thread starting up in month or two, so if you do decide to go ahead with it this year then you'll get great advice there. No harm in looking at last year's opening posts to see what the first week of the plans posted entailed. There's one beginner Hal Higdon plan and one more advanced plan. The amount of miles you do is no guarantee of getting a sub-4 but IMO 40k as a starting point is the very least you'd want to be doing but others might think differently and might have had success with less...

Kennyg71

+ 1 to advice above, I joined novice thread last year and found it a brilliant
Resource, it was my first Marathon and had only done 10k distance up till
Training began, was only doing 12 miles a week up to about now, and started
To build up to 20 miles a week by June over 4 days, once training started was
Doing 5 days a week, followed plan to letter and really enjoyed the experience,
If you want to have best chance at sub 4 and staying injury free, you will probably need to commit to 5 days once plan begins and start building now,
But most of all make sure your fully in as it is big personal commitment, best luck what ever you decide, and the answer to your opening question is there
Are Huge gains to speed and endurance if you want to give it time and commitment and most of all enjoy. You will get no better grounding than mentored thread, and will get few to advise you better than ososlo as
previous mentor of the thread.

jasonb

Sorry for the delay in replying, I've been up to my eyes.

Thanks a lot for the advice, I really appreciate it. I think, in my head, that I expect the marathon to have to be tough (it's the only experience I have of it!) so I guess it doesn't occur to me that it could be an 'enjoyable' experience. Clearly more frequent running, and more miles (done gradually of course!) would only help me in the long run.

I'm gonna have a good think about it, and talk to my wife too (as her life will be affected if I decide to do it) and take it from there. But I'm also going to keep on running and enjoy it as well! If I do decide to do it, I'll definitely be using the Novices' thread.

Thanks again...

J.

jasonb

Hi again...

A little update. I forgot to mention it in my last post, but last Tuesday (15th) I did my 'hard' run, which was 9.89k in 54:03 (5:28 pace).

I didn't run on Thursday as it was St. Patrick's Day, but continuing my new 'weekend' run, I went out for a easy 5k with a friend of mine who's also taken up running. Nothing strenuous, just 5k at 6:00 pace, I was barely out of breath afterwards, which was good as it showed how my fitness has improved.

Last night I was out again, but I've a slight cold, and I'm aware that I'm looking at running 3/4 times this week, so I didn't push it, and did 10.3k in 59:34 (5:47 pace). I'll be out running again on Thursday, and then I'll do a run on Saturday (another weekend run, 3 weekends in a row!) and then my Tuesday run on Monday (as I can't make it on Tuesday).

All this means that I'll have run on Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday and Monday (two of them 5ks), so I'm not going to push any of the runs, and just take it easy as it's a relatively big increase in mileage. Once I get past Monday I should get back into my Tuesday/Thursday habit, though I am planning to try to continue doing a Sat or Sun run as well.

Thanks...

J.

jasonb

Another update...

Well, I did my 'easy' run on Thursday 24th (9.66k in 55:25), but I could feel my groin muscle a little after it. My knees were a little sore too (mainly due to old, crap runners I think, I'm hopefully getting new ones this weekend). So I decided not to do a 5k over the weekend and just give myself a couple of days off.

So, skipping my 5k on Saturday, I was determined to go out yesterday, and as the run was going well I decided to push it a little. So I did 10k in 53:18 (5:20 pace). Am very happy with that, it's over 1.5 minutes quicker than my previous 10k time. In fact, I've been thinking about it, and I think it's probably the fastest 10k I've ever done, as when I was running back in 2006 I was running miles, not kilometres, so I was doing 6 mile runs (that's about 9.6k), so I never had reason to push myself hard over a full 10k. So my new, all time PB is 53:18, and sub 53 is clearly calling me.

But not for a while, my next run (Thursday) will be an easy one, and then I'll hopefully get new runners on Saturday and break them in with an easy 5k on Sunday. That's the plan at least...

J.

jasonb

It's been a while since my last post...

My easy run on Thursday 31st turned out to be not that easy, as I tried a new route and it was hilly as hell! Did 9.18k in 52:35.

Then I went and got new runners. I went to Amphibian King in Bray, whom I've used in the past, and they never fail to give good customer service, hence me always going back to them! So it was great to finally get some new runners!

I didn't get a chance to do a 5k to break them in that weekend, so my first attempt with them was on Tues 5th. I could really feel the difference with the new runners, but found the run tough, as it was my 'hard' run, and I did 10.93k in 1:00:03.

I didn't get to run on Thurs 7th as I was delayed by an appointment, so I didn't get to run again 'til Tues 12th. That was a tough one, 11.36km in 1:00:40, only 6 seconds off my PB for the 10k and then another 1.36k on top of the 10k. So I was pretty wrecked after that!

So much so that my 'easy' run on Thursday was a 'tired legs' run, as I could feel them immediately and for the whole run! But I did my easy run of 9.45k in 53:04, so that was fine.

So that's where I am now. I'm still struggling to do 3 runs a week, my young daughter is acting up a lot at the moment, so it's not easy for me to get out during the weekend. But I will get to run next weekend, as I'm doing a 5k in Russborough House, and aiming to break 25mins if I can...

J.

jasonb

Another little update...

Ran on Tuesday, was running with a couple of people so while we were doing a decent pace, it was, perhaps, not quite as much as I could have pushed myself. But I was still happy with doing 10.81k in 1:00:31, 5:36 pace and I was able to chat during the whole run.

I couldn't run on Thursday as my Wife was out, but that left me 'fresh' for my 5k in Russborough House today. It was a bit warm, and it felt like it was uphill the whole way (which, of course, is impossible as it's a circuit!) but I was quite happy as I did the 5k in 24:32! So well under 25min, which was my target. I did get a couple of weird looks though when I passed the finish line and kept on running, but I'd realised the course was a little short (approx. 100m) and I wanted my Garmin to hit the 5k so my new PB would be recorded! Ah, the fun of being a Garmin slave!

Running Tuesday and Thursday this week, we'll see how my legs feel on Tuesday after today's run...

J.

Kennyg71

Well done on PB, trees can affect Garmin, so not always 100% reliable, I'd take
race time, you should take 1 day easy for every mile raced, so if u were flat out today,take nice and easy Tuesday.

jasonb

Thanks! Yep, I'll take it easy tomorrow and just enjoy the run, instead of trying for some new time/distance.

It's probably likely that my Garmin lost signal and the distance was right, but I didn't want to run a PB and the Garmin not register it 'cos it thought I'd only done 4.9k! At least this way my PB is 24:32, so 24:30 is my next, attainable, target for 5k!

J.

jasonb

My next update...

Last week I ran on Tuesday and Thursday, and didn't push it either day. I did 11.16k in 1:00:18 on the Tuesday, and surprised myself be being able to chat the whole way during the run. On the Thursday I did 10.26 in 56:39, and once again was just fine after it.

Did my next run tonight, and took it handy enough, doing 10.91 in 1:03:44.

All three runs were a 'decent' pace, but nothing too strenuous for me really, especially today. I can't make the Thursday run, so I'm going to run on Friday instead, and if I'm feeling up to it I might push myself for that run and see if I can break 53:18 for 10k. I'll play it by ear on the day...

Thanks...

J.

jasonb

Another update.

I got to do my run last Friday, and it was a tough one, because it was fairly warm, and because I was pushing it. I wanted to see if I could break 53 mins for 10k, and I did that alright, finishing in a time of 51:22! So 51 mins is the next target for me, with sub 50 calling to me at some stage.

I didn't get to run on Tuesday but I ran last night, and took it fairly easy. Was feeling ok at the end of the run, so I kept on going for a bit longer, and finished with a distance of 12.12k in 1:07:27 (5:34) pace, which is my longest run since I got back into running.

It occurred to me last night that it's now May and I need to be deciding soon if I'm going to look at the marathon or not. It all really comes down to figuring out if I can do the long run at the weekend; running in the evening isn't too bad, especially with the better weather. I also need to decide if I want to 'risk' enjoying my running by focusing on the marathon.

I know several people in the club I run with who are doing it this year, so I'd have company/support, and they've also done it in previous years with only 3 runs a week (and cross training), so that makes me think that I don't necessarily have to run 5/6 times a week to do it.

Anyhow, all of this is in my head, and I will have to decide soon enough. I might sign up for the Dublin Race series (I can't make the 5k one, but I can make the other three races) and maybe I'll just look at a half-marathon this year, and not 'push' it.

Decisions decisions! But the main thing is, I'm running, I'm enjoying it, and I'm a lot fitter than I was!

J.

jasonb

Me again...

Went for a nice run on Tuesday and took it very easy as I was chatting to a couple of fellow runners all the way round the route. The route was also quite hilly so that took its toll on the pace as well. But in the end I did 11.44k in 1:08, so quite slow compared to my now usual pace, but a nice run on a nice evening.

I've also had a long hard think about the marathon, and had a talk with my wife as well, and I've made the hard decision that I'm not going to go for it. When it comes down to it, I just don't have the time to be able to train as well as I'd want to, which would end up causing me stress and also not getting the marathon I want at the end of it. So I'm going to stick with running a couple of times a week.

I do like having a goal to work towards, so I might as well work on my 5k and 10k times. They're currently 24:33 and 51:22. A sub 50 10k should be doable I reckon, I've already gone from 59 minutes to 51:22 since January. That said, it's easy to make big leaps when you've only started, and those improvements will get smaller over time. But I still think I could do a sub 50 by the end of the summer.

As for the 5k, I started with 31 minutes, and sub 24 is next, but obviously there's less room there for a massive improvement, so I'll just focus on that for now. I won't be running sub 20 any time soon (or ever!).

Thanks for all your support on this thread, it's really helped me, and because of it I was able to get from 'I'm thinking about running' to running regularly for 7 months now, and feeling a lot fitter because of it. As for the marathon, I can always wait for the M45 or M50 category!

J.

Kennyg71

Marathon defiantly big commitment and you can get as much if not more out
of shorter stuff and easier to recover from for another go at pb. You'd be supprised if you got another couple of quality sessions in short only 30 mins or
so during week how much you could take off 5k/10k times.