Could I do a sub-4 hour Marathon in 2016?

jasonb

Me again, with yet another question!

The second smallest toe on my left foot kinda sneaks under the middle toe a little. It's fine day to day, but I can feel it sometimes during a run and it gets uncomfortable. I can only imagine it'll get worse for longer runs. Any tips/advice on what I can do? Are there 'toe separators'?

In other news, my new Garmin 25 arrived yesterday, and I've played around with it and it's all ready to go when I do my next run on Monday. I'm really looking forward to that run, in fact I was it were sooner!

J.

ncmc

jasonb wrote: »

Me again, with yet another question!

The second smallest toe on my left foot kinda sneaks under the middle toe a little. It's fine day to day, but I can feel it sometimes during a run and it gets uncomfortable. I can only imagine it'll get worse for longer runs. Any tips/advice on what I can do? Are there 'toe separators'?

In other news, my new Garmin 25 arrived yesterday, and I've played around with it and it's all ready to go when I do my next run on Monday. I'm really looking forward to that run, in fact I was it were sooner!

J.

You can get little foam things that fit over the toe like a cast, that might help. Or maybe you could tape the toe up?

jasonb

Thanks for your reply. I think I'll try the foam thing, I'd be worried that tape might rub and cause more discomfort than the toe on its own!

J.

jasonb

Just a quick update...

Went out for a run tonight with the club, and wanted to take it easy as I'll be running the RITD 5k on Wednesday. So I did 4.4k in 28:25 and it felt fine. Legs don't feel too bad at all, so hopefully I'll be grand for Wednesday. I think I actually missed pushing myself a bit tonight!

My new Garmin worked a charm, so I'm happy with that, and I Also got a little 'foam' cover for my toe and that seemed to do the trick too.

Looking forward to Wednesday now...

J.

jasonb

Another update, just in case anyone is actually reading this!

Did the 5K Run In The Dark last night in Dublin. The RITD thread will discuss all of the issue with the race (most of which, in my opinion, come down to accepting far too many entrants), but I just wanted to focus more on the actual run in this thread.

I was starting with a mate of mine who was doing the 10k, though I knew we wouldn't be together long as he's much faster than me. Once we finally started there was the usual bottlenecks etc., so once we had a chance to actually run a little, we went fairly fast to 'make up for time' lost with the slow start. He soon went ahead from me, as my legs were already feeling a little tired, having cooled down while waiting for the delayed start, and possibly feeling Monday's run as well.

I'm still getting used to my Garmin, and I had the idea of breaking 30mins for the 5k in my mind, so I used the 'Pace/Average Pace' fields for the run. While with my mate we were doing 5:30/km, and I knew I couldn't keep that up for 5k (though, interestingly, that's the pace I have to run if I'm to do a sub-4 hour marathon - but that's next year, not now). So I soon slowed it down a little, though sometimes I had no choice due to more bottlenecks. But I thought to myself that if I kept the average pace quicker than 6min/km, then I'd hit my target of 30mins.

I got in to a rhythm a little, my tired legs still tired, but not getting worse. I was focusing so much on pace (and surprised how much my own pace varies!) that I didn't actually notice any km markers during the run! I did take the time, when running across Samuel Beckett Bridge, to look up and take in the sights and the atmosphere, it was cool seeing all the lights and runners around, and by then I was comfortable enough running and knew I'd finish ok (and I still had my average pace around 5:50/km).

Most of the race though was spent making sure I didn't hit anyone else, and I did see a couple of other people trip, either over other runners or traffic cones etc. Once I was coming back towards the bridge, and I knew I'd about a km to go, I started pushing on a little, and had that lovely experience of overtaking a few people, after seeing people go past me earlier in the run.

It was a long straight to the finish, so while I was pushing a bit, I was still saving myself for the last 'kick', when I went over a mat and heard a beep. I quickly realised that I'd done the 5k, but the finish line was still down the road (the same as last year apparently). So then I pushed for the line and did a 'sprint' (well, my version of it!) finish, though I kinda knew that I'd missed my chance to finish strong with the 5k mat already behind me.

Anyhow, I was tired at the finish, but soon felt fine, and was surprised how little it took out of me really, considering I'd run fast (for me) and had run two days ago as well. My Garmin had a time of 31:11 for 5.45km, with a fastest 5k time of 28:26! That fastest 5k time included the .45k at the end though, and didn't include the slow .45k at the start, as my official chip time that I got later was 29:13. Either way, I easily beat 30mins, so I'm happy with that, and happy with a nice interesting run, despite some of the obvious issues with the organising of it.

I collected my goodie bag and promptly ate everything in it!

So, that's me done for this week, next week I've two runs with the running club. I'll definitely go for the 'longer' option on both evenings and see how it goes.

Thanks...

J.

ncmc

Well done on the PB! I think the very popular races like RITD and the WMM for example aren’t ideal for trying to set PB’s. They’re just too crowded and you have a lot of walker/very slow joggers who aren’t the best at starting towards the back! You’d be better to target a lower profile race for PB attempts.

jasonb

Thanks ncmc...

It's not really a PB I guess, as I'm sure I must have run a quicker 5k when I was running back in 2006, training for the marathon. But it's definitely the fastest I've finished a 5k in years. I wasn't really looking for a PB time, more just had a target of 30mins in my head, and wanted to get that. As you said, with so many runners, it's not ideal if you're actually chasing for a PB. Though the flat profile of the route does help!

J.

jasonb

Just a quick update...

I ran with the club on Monday night and Wednesday night. Neither run quite hit 5k (4.6K on Monday and 4.7K tonight), but I was happy with the pace, 5:57 min/k on Monday and 5:54 min/k tonight. Both of them under 6:00min/k, and on both nights I was able to finish strong.

It's not much, basically two 'almost' 5Ks in less than 30mins. But I can already see that I'm running better than I was in my first run, so that's cool, it's nice to see progress. The club really helps, I was running beside a guy tonight and the two of us just kept pushing each other on, which was great. I feel happy that I can do two 5k a week and so far my body isn't complaining. My plan from now to Christmas is to continue doing that, get used to it, maybe go a little faster sometimes, maybe a little longer sometimes, and maybe throw in a third run sometimes, on a Friday or Saturday, we'll see.

Thanks...

J

jasonb

So, this week's update, a little late.

Had a good run on Monday, once again running beside someone in the club which meant we pushed each other a little bit. Did 5.81k in 34:17, which is 5:54 min/k again, and was able to finish strongly. It was cold and wet that night, but it was an enjoyable run.

Wasn't really in the mood for Wendesday's run, I'd a long day in work and it was the first run I wasn't looking forward to. But out I went, and I struggled a little, not really with tiredness, just lack of 'get up and go'. Did 5.35k in 33:35, which is a relatively slow 6:17 min/k pace. Afterwards I felt a bit bad for not pushing myself more, but at least I went out I guess!

I can't make this Monday's club, so I'm going to run on either Saturday or Sunday instead. It'll be weird running on my own again, I'll see if that affects my mojo or not.

Am thinking of looking for a 10k over Christmas / New Year. I'm fairly confident I can do one, I just don't know at what pace.

Thanks...

J.

ncmc

Jason it's an easy mistake to make to think that every rub should be done at flat out pace when in fact it's really counter productive. It's actually advisable to do your recovery runs at a slow pace. The idea is to warm up and stretch the muscles without risking injury. If you do two difficult sessions in a row, then your chance of an injury increases. So you were right to do your Wednesday run slow. I think at this stage if you go one club session, one longer run and two recovery runs in between, then that's a pretty good plan to keep you ticking over the winter.

jasonb

Thanks for the advice. Like you say, it's very easy to assume that each run should be 'better' (i.e. faster or longer or whatever) than the last one. I suppose I view it as 'progress' if each run 'improves', but of course you're right!

At the moment I'm only doing 2 runs a week, on Mondays and Wednesdays with the club. The next step will probably be adding a third run, maybe on a Saturday, which could turn into a longer slower run maybe, we'll see.

Thanks...

J.

ncmc

To be totally honest, if you're planning g to run a marathon next year, at least if you want to get a decent time, you'd really need to be adding at least one run a week, 2 would be better. The more miles you have in your legs the better. I would think you'd need to be aiming for at least 3 runs at this stage.

Firedance

its already been suggested Jason but if you have a look at the DCM mentored novices thread for 2015 there's a lot of super advice in there in just the first few posts, there is also a pre marathon plan to help you build your miles before marathon starts. You are right to be building slowly at this stage, however, if I were you I would do only one club run a week and two other very slow/easy pace runs. The standard rule is to increase your miles by no more than 10% a week, as you start to increase your miles per week you can then introduce a 4th run. A good motto to remember is keep your 'Hard days Hard and Easy days Easy'.

jasonb

Thanks for the advice, I'll definitely look at that thread, I think I looked at it before I started to run, but now that I am running it'll be good to look at it again, some of it will probably make more sense/sound more familiar to me.

I can definitely see the advantage of adding a 3rd run a week, it's something I was already rolling around in my head. If I'm doing two 5k runs a week (with the club on Monday & Wednesday nights) is it ok to 'jump in' with another 5k (probably on Friday or Saturday) or is that too much of a jump, as it's basically 50% more running. Should I lead up to it slowly? Or at this very low level of mileage does the sudden increase really matter?

Next, if I get up to 3 runs, I wondering if I should make the Saturday run the recovery one, as that will eventually become the lsr? The club running can be easy or hard, depending on what I want, as there is a wide range of paces in the group. The club runs finish at Christmas too, and then it's up to me if I want to do another 12 weeks with them in the New Year. I think I will, as I enjoy the company, and they have a 5k-10k group, which will help increase my mileage.

J.

ncmc

jasonb wrote: »

Thanks for the advice, I'll definitely look at that thread, I think I looked at it before I started to run, but now that I am running it'll be good to look at it again, some of it will probably make more sense/sound more familiar to me.

I can definitely see the advantage of adding a 3rd run a week, it's something I was already rolling around in my head. If I'm doing two 5k runs a week (with the club on Monday & Wednesday nights) is it ok to 'jump in' with another 5k (probably on Friday or Saturday) or is that too much of a jump, as it's basically 50% more running. Should I lead up to it slowly? Or at this very low level of mileage does the sudden increase really matter?

Next, if I get up to 3 runs, I wondering if I should make the Saturday run the recovery one, as that will eventually become the lsr? The club running can be easy or hard, depending on what I want, as there is a wide range of paces in the group. The club runs finish at Christmas too, and then it's up to me if I want to do another 12 weeks with them in the New Year. I think I will, as I enjoy the company, and they have a 5k-10k group, which will help increase my mileage.

J.

I think you’d be ok to add another 5k run, especially if it’s at easy pace. I think the 10% rule really only applies to people who are just starting out or for people whose mileage is increasing weekly as part of a training plan. If you’re comfortably running 5k at the moment. Then I think you’d be ok running another 5k at easy pace.

jasonb

Thanks for the advice, and sorry for the delay in replying! I haven't yet got started on a third run a week, but I'm hopeful I can figure out the timing of it soon. At the moment I run late enough at night (after 8 when my daughter's asleep) so I want to keep doing that if possible.

Anyhow, I have still been doing my two runs. Last week my first run was on Sunday as I couldn't make the club on Monday. I did this as a 'harder' one, and while it was a bit weird running on my own again, I did 6.44k in 37:13, or 5:47 pace. It was the longest, and quickest, I've run so far, and I could definitely feel it.

Then on Wednesday I ran with the club again, and took it easier, running 6.25k in 40:32, or 6:29 pace. Didn't find that too tough at all really.

This week I'm back to two runs with the club, so I'll probably do one hard and one easy. Tonight's weather is miserable, so I'll see how I feel before deciding which is hard and which is easy!

J.

jasonb

Well, last night was the hard run. Apart from the strong gusty wind, the weather wasn't too bad. I started out stronger than normal, to get a decent pace going, and was kept company by the guy who runs the club for the first couple of km, and then he hung back for the rest of the group and I continued on my own. Had a decent hill at around the 5 km mark, into the wind, so that was tough, but I did my best to attack it and then tried to keep the pace up from there and finish strong.

In the end I did 6.61k in 38:12 (again in 5:47 pace). The longest I've run so far, and my quickest 5k (28:09) according to the Garmin, thought that's the last 5k (ignoring the 1.61k at the start of the run). It definitely was a tough one, and I can feel the difference between 5k and 6.6k too, my legs were more tired and feeling it. Thankfully I'm not too bad at all today. I'm still 17s per k off the pace I'd need to do if I were doing a marathon, but as I'm not planning on doing the marathon tomorrow, I'm not too worried about that! If I was doing a proper 5k race tomorrow I'd be confident of breaking 28mins I think...

Tomorrow will be an easy run, weather permitting!

I was thinking of trying a 10k race over the Christmas / New Year to see what it's like. I'd be confident I could do it, but I don't know what time I'd do. Any recommendations? Ideally one near Kildare/Dublin that isn't already booked out (obviously! ). Thanks...

J.

jake1970

Hi J, there is a 5/10k race in Caragh village, just outside Naas, on new years day. You can register here http://www.popupraces.ie/events.php if you are interested. Best of luck with your training and your log.

jasonb

jake1970 wrote: »

Hi J, there is a 5/10k race in Caragh village, just outside Naas, on new years day. You can register here http://www.popupraces.ie/events.php if you are interested. Best of luck with your training and your log.

Thanks a lot, I think I might just sign up for that!

J.

jasonb

Happy Christmas everyone!

No update in a while, I've missed a couple of weeks' running because I've had a head cold that I just couldn't shake. So I got 6.5k done today in 6:05 pace, but it was my first run since the 14th!

I did want to get a run in though, as I've signed up for the Caragh 10k on Friday and I wanted to have done something before then. It's my first 10k in over 9 years, so we'll see how it goes!

J.

jasonb

Happy New Year everyone!

Well, the 10k this morning was a good start to the year. It wasn't too big an event, just a nice size, so I didn't feel intimidated for my first 10k since DCM 2006. It was chilly and breezy but not too bad, and at least it wasn't raining.

I tried my best not to start too fast (and the long hill in Caragh after the first .5k helped!) and when I finished the first lap I'd done it in just over 30mins, so I was happy with that, on target for finishing in less than an hour. 5-6km was just getting past that hill again, but I picked up the pace a little from 7km onwards, and by 8km I was just under 6:00/km pace. So I just pushed on from there, did the 8th km in 5:46, the 9th in 5:30 and the 10th in 5:14! Was pretty tired when I crossed the line I have to say, but I finished in 59:03, which I was very happy with. Part of me wishes I'd broken 59min, there's always something to aim for eh? As it happens, my Garmin has me doing 10.05km, and my 10km time is 58:50, so yay!

Even better, it start to rain just as I finished, so I managed to avoid that too. Did a warm down and got home for a hot shower. It was a well run event and I enjoyed it.

So, I'm happy with my start to 2016, now I just have to keep it up. I've changed nights with my running club, I'll now be with a group that does 10k+ each night, but I'll finish my routes earlier than them until I get up to their distance.

Hope 2016 is good for you all and you enjoy your running!

J.

Kennyg71

Well done Jason on 10k, just bit confused on time 39mins, with 5-6km
Splits, maybe reading wrong, best luck
With 2016 Goals.

jasonb

Kennyg71 wrote: »

Well done Jason on 10k, just bit confused on time 39mins, with 5-6km
Splits, maybe reading wrong, best luck
With 2016 Goals.

Thanks Kenny, it should have read 59min, I've changed it now! I could only wish to do 10km in 39mins!

J.

Kennyg71

jasonb wrote: »

Kennyg71 wrote: »

Well done Jason on 10k, just bit confused on time 39mins, with 5-6km
Splits, maybe reading wrong, best luck
With 2016 Goals.

Thanks Kenny, it should have read 59min, I've changed it now! I could only wish to do 10km in 39mins!

J.

Add your reply here.
Putting in mileage & getting on plan and you'll be flying, used to think I'd reached my peak & couldn't get any better, stick at it and you'll keep surprising yourself, getting out for 10k on new years,great start.happy running.

mjp

Well done Jason. Enjoying reading your progress along the thread. Planning on running my first half marathon in march having done a few 10k's in last few years. Hope to get some help and guidance from these forums.

jasonb

mjp wrote: »

Well done Jason. Enjoying reading your progress along the thread. Planning on running my first half marathon in march having done a few 10k's in last few years. Hope to get some help and guidance from these forums.

Nice one mjp, you'll get great advice here, I know I am!

J.

jasonb

Another little update...

I'm feeling a little happy with myself!

After doing my first 10k in years on Friday, I was back out with my running club last night. I was with the couch-5k group before Christmas, so I should really be with the 5-10k group now. But they meet at 7pm, and it suits me much more to meet at 8pm. So I joined the 10k+ group instead, after discussing it with our Instructor, who was fine with the idea of being doing some shorter routes, but still using the support of the group etc.

I'd a crap day yesterday, getting used to being back in work, with a splitting headache etc., but I got off my ass and went for the run. I was slower than everyone else (no surprise there in this more 'advanced' group) and I stuck to the 'official' route, instead of taking the optional longer one, but I still did 8.9k in 52:33 (5:56 pace). Was really happy with myself, doing a decent run like that only a few days after the 10k, and while I was obviously tired afterwards, I wasn't too bad. I'll be running again with them on Thursday (that'll be my easy run).

A quick question. The more I run, the better I get (slowly, but still, I'm getting better). I try my best to run conservatively at the start of the run, and then finish strong. For example, here are my 1k splits for the 10k run:

6:01
5:57
5:58
6:06
6:06
6:10
6:02
5:46
5:30
5:14

So basically I was in or around 6:00 per km for the first 7km, and then I sped up, doing the last km in 5:14. What I'm wondering is, what's the balance between increasing my 'normal' pace, and finishing strong. Or in other words, should I be looking at maybe running at 5:55 as my normal pace, and maybe not finishing quite so strong, but still being faster overall? Obviously, this only applies to races/runs where the time is important to me, not to the 'easy' runs.

At some stage I'm going to have to seriously start thinking about whether I'll do the marathon or not, with the main reason for not doing it being the difficulty in finding the time to train as much as I'll have to. But right now I feel like I'm a runner (which I wasn't 2 and a half months ago) and I'm enjoying getting out and hitting the pavement...

Thanks...

J.

Singer

jasonb wrote: »

So basically I was in or around 6:00 per km for the first 7km, and then I sped up, doing the last km in 5:14. What I'm wondering is, what's the balance between increasing my 'normal' pace, and finishing strong. Or in other words, should I be looking at maybe running at 5:55 as my normal pace, and maybe not finishing quite so strong, but still being faster overall? Obviously, this only applies to races/runs where the time is important to me, not to the 'easy' runs.

Finishing strong can be a good thing to do in your long endurance runs, though in races you should be looking to be doing fairly consistent effort throughout (a sprint finish should happen naturally enough as everybody speeds up around you).

To do a marathon this year you should be looking to be doing 20-30 miles per week by June or so, just keep slowly increasing the mileage and the speed will follow naturally.

jasonb

Thanks for the advice Singer...

Did my easy run last Thursday (7th), which ended up being 8.9k in 55:40 (6:18 pace). My legs felt tired and heavy I have to say, as I'd basically done nearly 28k in a week, which was a bit of a leap for me. But it felt good to get it done too.

As I'm still not running three days a week yet, I've been off since Thursday and I'll be running again tomorrow evening. That'll be my 'hard' run, so I'm going to look at upping my pace a little bit and seeing how that goes.

Thanks...

J.

Kennyg71

jasonb wrote: »

Thanks for the advice Singer...

Did my easy run last Thursday (7th), which ended up being 8.9k in 55:40 (6:18 pace). My legs felt tired and heavy I have to say, as I'd basically done nearly 28k in a week, which was a bit of a leap for me. But it felt good to get it done too.

As I'm still not running three days a week yet, I've been off since Thursday and I'll be running again tomorrow evening. That'll be my 'hard' run, so I'm going to look at upping my pace a little bit and seeing how that goes.

Thanks...

J.

Hi Jason

If you are doing 28k in week, you'd need to spread over more than 2 days
otherwise may end up injured, probably need to spread over 3-4 days, long run should not really exceed more than 50% weekly millage, and provably better to keep to about 30-40% of weekly mileage, I'm sure someone could give u better advise, if anyone looking in, good going getting up to 28K.