Could I do a sub-4 hour Marathon in 2016?

jasonb

Hi there...

I did the DCM back in 2006 when I was in my early 30s. It was my first marathon, and I went from couch to 5km in April of that year, and then followed a training plan after that to get ready for the marathon. I had a time in my head of 4:30. I started a little too fast (yep, *that* mistake), hit the wall at 22 miles, had to walk for a little bit, but got jogging again and still made it to the finish line in 4:25. It was probably the toughest thing I'd ever done, physically and mentally. Since then I've done very little jogging at all, though in the last year I've done maybe 3 or 4 5ks, the last of which I did in 29mins, but it was very tough!

It struck me last night that my marathon was 9 years ago, and I got to thinking about 'celebrating' the 10th anniversary by trying it again (it's taken me this long to forget the 'I'll never do it again' promise!).

I work well at following plans/goals, and if I were to do it again, I'd need to have some set goals to motivate me. The first one is time, and I'd really like to do it in less than 4 hours (3:59:59 would be just fine!). I'd also like to do it non-stop, i.e. jogging the whole way.

So, realistically, how tough would it be for me to do a sub 4 hour marathon? Obviously I'd follow a plan again. I was thinking that I could try 11km an hour pace, as that would give me a cushion for the 4 hour marathon goal. Is that a crazy pace to be thinking about for someone who currently doesn't run? Or do I have enough time to get up to speed, so to speak?

Any thoughts/advice definitely appreciated, thanks...

J.

pconn062

You could but you will have to start training now. In order to break 4 hours you will have to run faster than you last 5k over 8 times in a row. Start getting back into regular running every week, until you are doing 4-5 days a week solidly and then start a plan when you're 16-20 weeks out. Getting the fitness back is going to be the most challenging part.

Notwork Error

The simple answer is you won't know until you try so why not give it a good bash and see what happens. You've got 1 year to build up and train which should see you make big leaps in fitness from where you are now as a person who doesn't do very much running.

What you get out of it will be all about how much you put in. Is a sub-4 possible? Who knows.

Clearlier

Only one way to find out!

You can make an awful lot of progress in a year but you need a plan and you need to stick to it.

Set some goals - multiple short term goals are probably your best option but you'll know best what works for you.

You could aim to progress up the distances 10k - 10miles - half marathon - marathon
or
you could train for a half marathon, drop down to get a 10k that would be quick enough to suggest sub-4 and then a marathon training cycle to add endurance to that.

There are many ways to skin this cat but the one thing that is essential is consistent training, start at a level that you can manage and build up slowly. Get into routines and make sure that you enjoy the process.

It may be worth your while starting a log here (works for some, doesn't for others) but make sure that you record your training somewhere so that you can track your progress and identify what works and doesn't work for you.

An_Reathai

+1 to all the advice so far

I'll just add that two years ago I was in a similar situation to yourself. I was 37. I had played a decent amount of football until I was 30 but hadn't had much aerobic exercise in the previous 7 years (Did some weights in the gym). In November 2013, a friend talked me into signing up for a half-marathon for the following March. After a couple of week's training, I was running 5k in about 28 mins - so roughly where you are now. I trained over the winter and spring, ran the Half and then decided to tackle DCM. Like you, I was wondering if I was biting off more than I could chew. But training went well and on the day I ran DCM in 3:07. So I would say that your target isn't at all unrealistic.

The best bit of advice that I can give is to get as much good advice as possible (here is a great place) - it will save you so much time and needless injuries in the long run. Probably the best few pieces of advice that I got was:
* Build up your weekly mileage slowly
* Do most of your runs at conversational pace
* Don't do any real speed work for several months
* Give yourself proper recovery between runs. For the first while, only run every second day.
* Join a club
* Set yourself shorter term targets to keep motivated (5k, 10k, Half etc.)
*Keep a detailed record - it is incredibly motivating to look back and see how far you've come

jasonb

Thanks everyone, some great advice there.

I think the first step is to get running again, just a couple of 5k runs to remind myself what it's like. If I get into that and keep it going, even just 2 or 3 runs a week, that'll get me started and then I can look at training plans if I decide to go for it.

Thanks for the advice...

J.

DubOnHoliday

jasonb wrote: »

Thanks everyone, some great advice there.

I think the first step is to get running again, just a couple of 5k runs to remind myself what it's like. If I get into that and keep it going, even just 2 or 3 runs a week, that'll get me started and then I can look at training plans if I decide to go for it.

Thanks for the advice...

J.

Don't delay in getting down to your local running club, head out on a trial run with them for a few weeks. You'll find lots of people in the same boat. Good luck.

jasonb

That's a good idea about a running club, I'll look it up and see what's nearby...

J.

RuMan

jasonb wrote: »

That's a good idea about a running club, I'll look it up and see what's nearby...

J.

Marathon training is fairly all consuming ,would you not be better off finding something you have an interest in doing regularly and do that instead rather then killing yourself for a marathon and then doing nothing for 10 years.

As regard doing it in less then 4 hours almost anybody could do that IF they are prepared to put in the miles and time. Concern i'd have is by rapidly going from zero/5k to marathon mileage there's a strong risk of injury. My 2 cents is start with 5/10k gradually built up to half and then full. This should take a few years of regular running (not 18/12 weeks of a marathon plan).

jasonb

Thanks again for the replies.

Have got in touch with a local running club. Surprisingly enough they're not meeting next week (I hear there's a marathon on! ) but the week after that I'm going to join up with them. Assuming that all goes well, it means I'll be running twice a week for 6-7 weeks, doing about 5k or so each run. I know I can do 5k at the moment, so that's not *too* tough, and it gives me a first step up towards running regularly again and it does it in a supportive environment.

Then, if I'm enjoying that and still feel like the marathon is a possible long term goal for me, I can look at where I am at Christmas and start setting new short and medium term goals, like doing some 10ks, getting my pace up a little more etc. etc.

The way I see it, I finished the marathon in 2006 despite never running before April in that year. So at the moment I'm already 5-6 months better off than I was, and if I take advantage of those 5-6 months, I can see where that gets me!

Thanks...

J.

Triangla

I did Cork marathon in 5:30 with 4 training runs over the 4 weeks before the marathon. Finishing a marathon isn't the hard part, it's setting a challenging time and sticking with it.

I'm doing now Clonakilty marathon in December and looking to do it sub 4. I've actually been putting in the miles and keeping track of pacing so it looks possible.

Don't be afraid to set a goal and go for it OP. You have to put the work in though. Just get out and get running and enjoy.

Glencarraig

Guys, here's my tuppence worth on the "comeback". I am now the ripe old age of 61, ran my first Dublin marathon way back in 1981 having come from a base of rugby, soccer and cycling, ran 3.29 for that first one and ran every Dublin marathon until 1988 when I got a bit bored with the whole running thing. My best of all those was 2.58 and bits......no Garmins in those days, a good old Timex stopwatch was the thing. Anyway fast forward to 18 months ago, I was approaching 13 stone and the only exercise I got was two rounds of golf at the weekends so I decided that something must be done. Found the Couch 2 5k app and started on that and kept going. I built up my runs very very slowly and discovered that I really enjoyed running again. I have now run a few half marathons, Wings for Life etc, best half time of 1.39 in the Park recently. I really wanted to run Dublin this year but I just felt that I have not got enough miles in the legs yet to run the distance safely, longest run has been 15 miles. I have decided to be patient and try to get a good base of mileage over the winter and target Manchester next April. To the original OP, slowly, slowly does it, enjoy the training and look forward to Dublin 2016.

ncmc

I think sub 4 would be very doable for you. I ran DCM in 2012 in a time of 3:57 and really only started training properly in January that year. My running up to that point has been intermittent at best. The raining plan proper doesn't start til mid June so you have 8 months to see how your training goes and to see if you want to commit to it.

I'd recommend getting out 3/4 times a week over the winter, gradually increase the distance of one run a week. If you got to spring with a long run of 8/10 miles and running 20/25 miles a week then I think you would be in good shape for DCM. I'd recommend joining the novice thread here when the time comes. It's a great source of advise and support.

jasonb

Thanks for the advice and encouragement, I appreciate it.

I got off my ass today and did my first jog since April. I did 5k in 31 minutes. There's still a long way to go, but it's a slightly less long way now that I've got started!

J.

Finglas Flier

A marathon is lots of small steps continuously for 4:59:59.....

jasonb

Or hopefully 3:59:59 in my case... Second run tonight, we'll see how that goes...

J.

Ososlo

Hey jasonb
I'd just say to you to not get too fixated on the 3:59:59 bit. I had the very same goal and posted an almost identical post as my first post ever on Boards (well first post on the athletics form and not on the 'giving up smoking forum';)).
Most people thought that yes I could do it as I was so committed to the goal.

I had no background in running or any sports but by the start of my training plan for DCM I had build up a good solid base of being able to run 40+ miles per week without any injuries or problems. Training went great, didn't miss any key long runs, did a few 18+ milers, and a longest run of 21 miles, all training weeks being between 40 and 50 miles.
Pbs by the time I got to the start line for DCM were 25:50 for 5k (March), 53xx for 10k(June), 1:28(August) for 10 miles.
I had done everything right. Long slow runs done at the right intensity, did some speedwork all along the way, plenty of ancillary stuff, running 6 days a week, etc etc etc you get the picture.

But I wasn't in sub-4 shape by the time the day came round. I had been training by heart rate and had a brilliant coach from around these parts, but sub 4 wasn't going to happen. I was in about 4:10-15 shape and felt confident of that. So even though I had done everything right, I just wasn't 'there' yet. I knew as the months progressed that it was looking less and less likely to happen and gradually came around to accepting it but it was a bit disheartening as there were people who had been running a lot less than me and who were newer to running than me and they did sub-4, but I just couldn't no matter how hard I tried to do everything the right way. Maybe you'll be one of the people who can do it, but I'd just advise you not to be too focused on it.
Anything* can happen.





*Who knows, you might just do 3:30;) (best of luck!!!)

jasonb

Great post Ososlo, thanks...

I've been thinking about that too. Yes, my main goal is sub 4 hours, but there's no guarantee it will happen. So I also have other goals:

1. Doing the whole thing without walking (as I walked a little near the end of my first one),
2. Getting a new PB (I did 4:25 in my first one)
3. Just finishing!

And it will probably be during the race itself that I decide on which of those goals are realistic.

It's all a long way away, and from now to Christmas it's just about running a couple of times a week and getting used to that. Then increasing on that and building a solid base of weekly running in the new year. When I get to the 'marathon plan' stage, I'll hopefully then have an idea (like you did) of what my pace is like and whether sub 4 hours is doable for me or not. Like you said, I know people whose first marathon was sub 3:30, and I know people who have done 10 marathons and never broken 4 hours.

For example, I was reading the Run and Jump blog, and he has run something like 10 marathons, had a PB of sub 3:30, had a great training year, full of PBs, was looking for around 3:15 in last year's DCM, and it just didn't happen and he did it in something like 3:38, which is a great time, but a disappointment for him. I'm just using that as an example to show that with something like the marathon, I guess you just don't know how it could go. In the one I did in 2006, I was aiming for 4:30, and was doing great until the wall at Mile 22. Thankfully I still broke 4:30, but it was easily the toughest thing, both mentally and physically, that I've ever done in my life. And now I'm looking to do it again, but knock 26 minutes off my time! (Bugger, a minute a mile quicker...).

So, for now, I'm thinking in smaller, bite-sized, short term goals, while part of me day-dreams about the big goals this time next year (actually, this exact date next year I've just realised!).

J.

Ososlo

I had that as a secondary goal too - running the whole thing without stopping and I achieved that one which I was very happy about.

I think definitely concentrate on just building sensibly for the moment. Get yourself a good base from which to work off.
Then focus on working on your 5k and 10k times. Then look at doing a half marathon in spring and that'll give you a good idea of how you stand with both speed and endurance 6/7 months out. Plenty of time then to make more improvements but you'll have a good idea of where your strengths and weakness lie.
You should start a training log and you'll get some advice and pointers from more experienced runners so ensure you're going about it all the right way.

Best of luck with your training!

jasonb

Just a quick update...

Went for my second run on Friday evening. My legs were still a little sore from my first run, so I didn't know how it would go. To try a couple of different things, I decided to try a different route, and also decided to run without my iPod to see what that was like.

When I opened the front door I realised that it was raining, but said 'feck it' and off I went. Of course, the rain only got worse, it bucketed down and I was soon soaked through.

That said, I actually enjoyed it! I liked running without the headphones, I felt I was more 'aware' of the run or something like that, and that was good. The conditions were crap, but I felt like it was good that I ran despite of them, when I could have stayed on the sofa. In the end I did my 5k in 30:55, and I finished strong, though wanting to get out of the rain probably helped! I also stretched a little after the run and my legs have been fine ever since, so that's good too.

Next up is my first run with the running club on Wednesday. I also decided to spoil myself: my watch doesn't have a stopwatch on it (so far I've waited until the second hand on it was at 0 before running) and my birthday is in a few days, so I decided to look at running/GPS watches, as I love gadgets. I read good reviews about the Garmin Forerunner 25 as a good basic watch, but was wary of paying around €170 for it. I got lucky though, I found a brand new one on eBay for auction and I got it for €99 including shipping, so that was a result!

Finally, just to experience it, I've signed up for the Run In The Dark 5k, as I love the idea of running at night in Dublin, and also trying out a 'race' for the atmosphere. It looks like a pretty flat course, so I'll see if I can get close to 30mins, as my routes around here are a bit hilly. We'll see how it all goes...

J.

JMSE

jasonb wrote: »

I also have other goals:

1. Doing the whole thing without walking (as I walked a little near the end of my first one),
2. Getting a new PB (I did 4:25 in my first one)
3. Just finishing!

And it will probably be during the race itself that I decide on which of those goals are realistic.

Hi Jason if theres one thing I've learned from my own 1st marathon experience last week and from reading the reports from the other novices, its this: Have that decision made way before race day. I am sooo envious of my fellow novices who paid so much more attention to their plan and how they would execute it, than I did. The success it brought them was fantastic.

(want to mention that I had an injury but you dont need to hear that )

jasonb

Thanks, I probably should have explained that better. I plan to know well in advance whether I'd be going for sub 4 hours or not, I should hopefully know that from what pace I'm comfortable with, and what my long runs are like etc. If I am going for sub-4 hours, and if on the day it's just not happening for me, then I'll decide to go with my other goals, if that makes sense?

J.

jasonb

A quick update. Went for my third run today, the first with a local running club. I found running with others quite good, for two main reasons. Firstly, you're less likely to not leave the house in the first place, as the group know you should be there. And secondly, the group can drag you around and keep you going longer than usual!

Ended up doing 6.5k in 41:05, so that was a nice little increase on the 5ks I've done so far. Didn't find it too tough, just a little shaky in the legs at the end. Next run with the group is on Monday, and then I've the Run In The Dark 5k on Wednesday! Looking forward to both, though I'll see how my legs are after only 2 days recovery...

J.

ger664

Ask a mod to move this to training logs and continue the thread so we can monitor and advise you accordingly

jasonb

Good idea Ger664, could any Mod reading this please move it to the Training Logs section? Thanks...

J.

Ososlo

jasonb wrote: »

A quick update. Went for my third run today, the first with a local running club. I found running with others quite good, for two main reasons. Firstly, you're less likely to not leave the house in the first place, as the group know you should be there. And secondly, the group can drag you around and keep you going longer than usual!

Ended up doing 6.5k in 41:05, so that was a nice little increase on the 5ks I've done so far. Didn't find it too tough, just a little shaky in the legs at the end. Next run with the group is on Monday, and then I've the Run In The Dark 5k on Wednesday! Looking forward to both, though I'll see how my legs are after only 2 days recovery...

J.

If you're racing next Wednesday, don't go too hard with the club run on Monday. If you want to do your best in the race and avoid injury, you should only do an easy/recovery effort shorter run on Monday imo.

jasonb

Ososlo wrote: »

If you're racing next Wednesday, don't go too hard with the club run on Monday. If you want to do your best in the race and avoid injury, you should only do an easy/recovery effort shorter run on Monday imo.

Thanks Ososlo, I was thinking the same thing. Definitely taking it easy on Monday so I'm feeling fresher for Wednesday...

J.

Ososlo

jasonb wrote: »

Thanks Ososlo, I was thinking the same thing. Definitely taking it easy on Monday so I'm feeling fresher for Wednesday...

J.

you should pm a Mod to move this to a training log or just start a new training log afresh. They mightn't see the request to move it on this thread.

Best of luck in the race!

jasonb

Thanks Ososlo, I wasn't certain if I had to PM someone or not. I'll do that now...

J.

Beasty

jasonb wrote: »

Thanks Ososlo, I wasn't certain if I had to PM someone or not. I'll do that now...

J.

I've moved it - FYI (and I appreciate it may be a bit confusing), I'm a Sports Category Mod (we used to be included separately in the mod list at the bottom of the forum) - GavRedKing, Sparks and Steve are also CMods. It's best to contact one of the others who has specific responsibility within the forum for any routine stuff

Thanks

jasonb

Thanks Beasty! Sorry for hassling you, I deliberately checked the Mod list for both the Athletics / Running forum and the Training Logs forum and your name was the first on both, so I thought it ok to go to you. Thanks for clarifying it though (and for moving my thread!).

J.