Southern Hemisphere Domination

cython

marc96 wrote: »

How's that arrogant??cop on!!!
Firstly it's every NH teams goal to go to SH and win a test series!

Secondly we don't put a team together out of 4 nations to best u?

Thirdly,time and time again on the world stage Ireland are shown what it takes to compete on a world stage,if Ireland were in pool A in place of England I gaurantee u would not have gotten out the pool.You played a typical Rubbish Italy team where u struggled,then u played prop the worst French team ever and didn't dominate,if u were anyway contenders for semis let alone a final u would have put 50 puts min on France and 15 on Argentina?

Now yes I know everyone going to bitch and moan about what I've just said but facts are facts.people should stop using the word WORLD CLASS when referring to the rugby team.only a few weeks ago people were saying the Ireland starting 15 and bench were the best in the NH but facts are that England and franc have been shocking bad the last few years and Wales showed u in 6N and ore WC that they the better team.

Really?? When NZ put 49 on them (seeing as that usually refers to the margin) when the French put in an even more disinterested display than the pools? Obviously that's nearly 50 that they put up, but claims of needing to put up 50 min are ridiculous in the extreme!

The Lost Sheep

turnikett1 wrote: »

Odd, despite the fact that geographically they are firmly in the NH

Not odd because they are closer to Australia/NZ than the main NH sides which are in Europe

marc96

Bridge93 wrote: »

You keep mentioning group A as if it's in some way relevant. For what it's worth SA would've been knocked out if they were in it. Remember when your world class team lost to Japan? Step down from France and even Italy.

How exactly have Wales shown they are better at this World Cup? By losing more games than us? By coming 3rd to us in the 6N?

Well imagine what Japan would have fine to Ireland then!
U Irish need to face facts that but team are not what make them out to be,I'm sick of hearing that the Ireland team us world class and full of world class players,yet u can't beat NZ and it wasn't that long ago u got smacked 60-0,u can't get past quarters(missing one semi can be down to bag form but never getting to one maybe means u should realise where u stand in world rugby)

Ask any SH person that still lives in SH and they will tell u exactly what they think of Irish rugby,I personally know 3 current Bok players and 2 Ex players and I could tell you stories,especially about that knob POC,the rudest and most disrespectful gob****e around.And no bok player would piss on him if he was on fire!

Banned

KingBrian2

marc96 wrote: »

Well imagine what Japan would have fine to Ireland then!
U Irish need to face facts that but team are not what make them out to be,I'm sick of hearing that the Ireland team us world class and full of world class players,yet u can't beat NZ and it wasn't that long ago u got smacked 60-0,u can't get past quarters(missing one semi can be down to bag form but never getting to one maybe means u should realise where u stand in world rugby)

Ask any SH person that still lives in SH and they will tell u exactly what they think of Irish rugby,I personally know 3 current Bok players and 2 Ex players and I could tell you stories,especially about that knob POC,the rudest and most disrespectful gob****e around.And no bok player would piss on him if he was on fire!

I don't know why your being so disrespectful. Geez go back to you ***t hole if you feel so outraged by how good we believe our team is.

Kiwi in IE

Celly Smunt wrote: »

I say we breed our women with fine young SH men, and create a race destined to play rugby and Iook pretty.

Little Kiwi is 7 years old, tall, broad shoulders, definite Rugby build, a star in the local under 8's, born in NZ, Irish parent and Kiwi parent, lived in Ireland since he was 20 months, fully Irish accent. You may be onto something there....

pickarooney

Maybe we could break the hegemony somewhat by redefining ourselves as Western Hemisphere.

pickarooney

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Little Kiwi is 7 years old, tall, broad shoulders, definite Rugby build, a star in the local under 8's, born in NZ, Irish parent and Kiwi parent, lived in Ireland since he was 20 months, fully Irish accent. You may be onto something there....

When you ask him to put away his toys does he fling them nonchalantly over his head into the toy box or carefully stash them under the bed and lie down beside them?

Kiwi in IE

pickarooney wrote: »

When you ask him to put away his toys does he fling them nonchalantly over his head into the toy box or carefully stash them under the bed and lie down beside them?

Generally fling over head. The latest five minute wonder might spend the night on locker beside bed. Haha why which are NH and SH attributes? He seems to be doing a bit of both which is consistant anyway.

Kiwi in IE

He wants to be an AB though. Not mention of wanting to play for Ireland so far, so you might be out of luck

thebaz

marc96 wrote: »

Ask any SH person that still lives in SH and they will tell u exactly what they think of Irish rugby,I personally know 3 current Bok players and 2 Ex players and I could tell you stories,especially about that knob POC,the rudest and most disrespectful gob****e around.And no bok player would piss on him if he was on fire!

wow , lovely , then again if you asked most Irish players , which country is the most unfriendly , and guess who they pick , no surprise

metrosity

marc96 wrote: »

Well imagine what Japan would have fine to Ireland then!
U Irish need to face facts that but team are not what make them out to be,I'm sick of hearing that the Ireland team us world class and full of world class players,yet u can't beat NZ and it wasn't that long ago u got smacked 60-0,u can't get past quarters(missing one semi can be down to bag form but never getting to one maybe means u should realise where u stand in world rugby)

Ask any SH person that still lives in SH and they will tell u exactly what they think of Irish rugby,I personally know 3 current Bok players and 2 Ex players and I could tell you stories,especially about that knob POC,the rudest and most disrespectful gob****e around.And no bok player would piss on him if he was on fire!

There's always an awful lot of you mentally deranged people crawling out from under your rocks when Ireland slip up.

France knocked the stuffing out of Ireland and decimated themselves in the process, to try to avoid New Zealand (a weak before!!)

No point explaining that to the neanderthals though!

Kiwi in IE

tastyt wrote: »

I really hate this " we shouldn't accept mediocrity " bull**** talk when it comes to sport in Ireland.

Wer a small island, punching above its weight constantly in sport, especially rugby. We have been the best in the NH for the past two years. Mediocre? No.

The population of Ireland is about 120,000 more than the population of NZ. Just saying, as a few people have pointed out the size of Ireland as a reason why you're struggling to the level of SH rugby.

No country is going to be great at every sport, Rugby is our thing in NZ. It's the game that has the most following, resources and interest and support, from grassroots to professional level. On the other hand, our Soccer team are to soccer, what Namibia, Uraguay and USA are to Rugby.

You guys are pretty good at rugby, but your sport which has the most resources, support and interest poured into it is GAA, which is not played at a professional or international level. Rugby is not your first sport and so you can't expect to compete with countries where it is, and find an equal playing field. Look at USA, the sports that they put the most into are played on a national level mostly too, American football, Baseball etc. They are totally crap at rugby and they are a massive country! You do really well considering it is not your be all and end all, as it is in NZ. Australia have Aussie Rules, Rugby League and Rugby, but players are almost interchangeable between those games.

thebaz

if we had our 15 best players available yesterday , things would have been different - Sexton was alway the one irreplaceable - losing O'Connels leadership, Jared Payne too was massive loss, Healy was not fit, and then O'Brien and O'Mahony, basically our back row was all too much , for a playing pool the size of ours - Many thought , me included that our young squad players were good eneogh to step up - the fact was they weren't

Kiwi in IE

thebaz wrote: »

if we had our 15 best players available yesterday , things would have been different - Sexton was alway the one irreplaceable - losing O'Connels leadership, Jared Payne too was massive loss, Healy was not fit, and then O'Brien and O'Mahony, basically our back row was all too much , for a playing pool the size of ours - Many thought , me included that our young squad players were good eneogh to step up - the fact was they weren't

This is my point, your pool of rugby players is much smaller because a huge percentage of your most talented sports stars are playing GAA, and Soccer. Rugby is far bigger in NZ than in Ireland. This can be seen at grass roots level. We live just outside a medium size town, my son plays rugby in the one club in the town. When we have away matches we are travelling sometimes up 100kms for the game. He plays GAA for our rural district and every district has its own GAA club, the town has several. We never had to travel much more than 10kms to an away match. Like GAA here, back home every suburb in every city/town and every rural district has its own rugby club. Kids are given hurlogs here when they're pretty much babies, at home they are given rugby balls. You're just not competing like for like. What do you think a national NZ hurling team would look like playing an Irish one? We'd probably loose to an Irish under 10's side. So you are actually pretty fantastic at rugby considering what is put into it nationally compared to the SH countries that dominate.

jank

irishbucsfan wrote: »

They weren't far superior than us when we beat them last November.

They weren't far superior than us when we beat them at the last World Cup.

I don't see any evidence at all to say Australia are "far superior" than Ireland or Wales really. They'd probably beat both teams carrying their current injuries but when they're at their best both us and the Welsh would push them a long way.

Wales have not beaten Australia in the past eleven attempts and have not beaten the AB's since the 50's who Ireland have never beaten. The facts do not lie.

Kiwi in IE

jank wrote: »

Wales have not beaten Australia in the past eleven attempts and have not beaten the AB's since the 50's who Ireland have never beaten. The facts do not lie.

Argentina have never beaten us either so that's what your up against. If you look at the statistics of wins loses between the 3 big SH teams and the rest of the world, we are massively dominant. There is no denying it.

Kiwi in IE

It also seems like for quite a long time here there was some funny attitude about playing 'foreign sports'. That probably didn't help the development of international participation in sport historically.

jank

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Argentina have never beaten us either so that's what your up against. If you look at the statistics of wins loses between the 3 big SH teams and the rest of the world, we are massively dominant. There is no denying it.

Correct, however Argentina will probably claim that scalp sooner then Ireland which says a lot.

I still remember the outcry from the 1999 world cup exit which came at the hands of Argentina, noted to be the worst day in Irish rugby history.
There were worries at the time that we would end up as a tier two rugby nation.

Roll on 15 years and losing to Argentina carries a lot more respect then it did then. Why? Because they have come on leaps and bounds. They have finally gained access to a yearly test competition and now have a team in Super Rugby. They have arrived on the world stage are no doubt one of the powers of world rugby.

Kiwi in IE

jank wrote: »

Correct, however Argentina will probably claim that scalp sooner then Ireland which says a lot.

I still remember the outcry from the 1999 world cup exit which came at the hands of Argentina, noted to be the worst day in Irish rugby history.
There were worries at the time that we would end up as a tier two rugby nation.

Roll on 15 years and losing to Argentina carries a lot more respect then it did then. Why? Because they have come on leaps and bounds. They have finally gained access to a yearly test competition and now have a team in Super Rugby. They have arrived on the world stage are no doubt one of the powers of world rugby.

Personally I think they are being massively talked up at the moment. I think the outcome would have been different if the Irish team had been full strength too. I don't agree that they are a 'power' in world rugby. They are a good team and have done well so far, with a bit of luck due to injuries, but I definitely don't think they will make the final. If NZ were to play Argentina in the final, the NZ public would think that Christmas had come early when the alternative is Australia. They are a good team, but they are not in Australias league.

parere48

I don't think the Irish and the Brits have to look back too far for a blueprint for playing rugby. I recall as a boy watching two great sides visiting NZ in 1959 and 1971 packed with wonderful running backs: names like O'Reilly, Gibson, Jackson, John, Edwards, Dawes, etc. These guys were amazing players, and played the game at pace. It seemed in those days the forwards were trained to provide ball for the razzle dazzle backs, who could carve up any world backline of the day. Get out some of those videos, analyse them, and make a new game plan with the required skills and strategies.....and play more games under cover in winter to get drier conditions.

.ak

marc96 banned. Don't reply to trolls people, just report the posts

metrosity

jank wrote: »

Wales have not beaten Australia in the past eleven attempts and have not beaten the AB's since the 50's who Ireland have never beaten. The facts do not lie.

You conveniently omitted the fact that Ireland have a pretty good record against Aus and SA in recent years.

Bridge93

jank wrote: »

Correct, however Argentina will probably claim that scalp sooner then Ireland which says a lot.

I still remember the outcry from the 1999 world cup exit which came at the hands of Argentina, noted to be the worst day in Irish rugby history.
There were worries at the time that we would end up as a tier two rugby nation.

Roll on 15 years and losing to Argentina carries a lot more respect then it did then. Why? Because they have come on leaps and bounds. They have finally gained access to a yearly test competition and now have a team in Super Rugby. They have arrived on the world stage are no doubt one of the powers of world rugby.

Argentina will be playing NZ twice a year every year for the foreseeable future so naturally they should beat them before we do.

Shurimgreat

One of my takes on New Zealand dominance is rugby is the national sport in the country, but its also the game of the masses, much like gaelic football is in Ireland or soccer is in England.

On the otherhand, rugby has a tradition of being a game of the elites in these isles. This has changed slightly in the last 20 years, but there's still no denying that rugby is often restricted to private colleges and the middle class. Its growing in popularity but its still not the game of the masses.

In NZ, there is no elitism or snobbery around the sport, or a them versus us feeling. Unfortunately there is a bit of that element in the British Isles still.

There's a lot of mediocre and talented rugby players in Ireland. There just isn't enough elite rugby players to provide a conveyor belt to the national team.

And until some people understand the 6 nations is a mediocre tournament, no progress will be made.

My two cents.

irishbucsfan

Well the 6 Nations isn't a mediocre tournament. You can't just say it's a mediocre tournament and make it so. It's not as strong at the moment as it can be because of England and France but when those teams are at their best it's an extremely strong tournament. Those two sides have fallen away but let's not kid ourselves into thinking that's going to be a permanent problem for those nations.

There is a history of the sport in Ireland and the rest of the world of one played by upper class people. That past has left a legacy in some parts of the country. There isn't any snobbishness or exclusivity in the sport these days but the legacy remains and that means the sport isn't played at all in many parts of Ireland, that's just a historical thing. In other parts of the country, such as Limerick, there's no sign of that issue at all. It's up to the provinces to go out and develop those non-traditional areas and make the sport available to them. Most of the provinces have been doing a really good job of that recently.

I don't think the sport will ever by a game for the masses primarily because of the huge influence of the GAA and soccer. That's not a bad thing, those sports occupy a huge space in our culture and that should be embraced. Rugby is a difficult game to understand and it takes a lot more effort to play it. You can' just throw down a couple of jumpers and have a kickabout. I've played rugby in a few countries now and snobbery or elitism is almost non-existant now, in fact the only element of it I see any more is within the game itself between established clubs at times. It's helped hugely by the growth of the sport in non-traditional areas and amongst new fans in traditional areas. Leinster for example in recent years have done a good job of bringing in new fans from right across the province and that's worked very well. The provinces just need to keep up what they're doing on that front and they'll continue to flourish so long as our provincial teams can find success in Europe.

AbusesToilets

I wouldn't feel that the 6 Nations in a mediocre tournament, but at the same time it is clearly second best to the Championship in terms of skill and prestige. None of the NH teams are apt to inspire fear or anxiety in the SH set, which to me is perhaps the biggest indicator of what separates the two groups. SH teams come up here with oft times make-shift teams, expecting to win. NH teams would rarely go south with the same outlook. No NH team holds a winning record against the SH teams bar Argentina, and I wouldn't be surprised if theirs improves significantly going forward.

johnbaldry

my team when all are fit;

MCGRATH CRONIN WHITE
TONER RYAN

MAHONY HENDERSON OBRIEN

MURRAY SEXTON
EARLS HENSHAW FITZGERALD TRIMBLE
ZEBO
SUBS HEALY BEST FURLONG REDDAN MADIGAN KEARNEY R RUDDOCK HEASLIP

Kiwi in IE

AbusesToilets wrote: »

I wouldn't feel that the 6 Nations in a mediocre tournament, but at the same time it is clearly second best to the Championship in terms of skill and prestige. None of the NH teams are apt to inspire fear or anxiety in the SH set, which to me is perhaps the biggest indicator of what separates the two groups. SH teams come up here with oft times make-shift teams, expecting to win. NH teams would rarely go south with the same outlook. No NH team holds a winning record against the SH teams bar Argentina, and I wouldn't be surprised if theirs improves significantly going forward.

I think that the French team had the ability to inspire fear and anxiety in Kiwis up until last Saturday, due to the history in World Cup games, but only in world cup games, but I think that 1999 and 2007 have finally been put to bed now. That game made me very anxious until quite a bit into the second half.

Your right apart from that though, I would prefer NZ were playing any NH team over RSA or AUS in knock out stages. I think that if we had NH opposition in the semis and final, most of the NZ public would consider the RWC already won, rightly or wrongly, and I think that's where the AB's have gone wrong with France in the past; complacency.

Tim Robbins

As I have said many times and I am sure a certain person will come along to disagree and tell me I haven't a clue, the problem is with coaching at a younger age.

Read Mr. D'Arcy.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/gordon-d-arcy-coaching-players-younger-must-become-priority-1.2399288

Pudsy33

D'Arcys articles are good, but they read a bit incoherently. He didn't voice any concerns about coaching in an of the previous articles. I don't disagree, but again it's a bit reactionary.