Refraining from fapping

mr.anonymous

The urge to "shift a load" is the same basic instinct that keeps the species going. It's a perfectly natural thing to get but also different for different people.

It's supposed to be good to ejaculate to clear the pipes and have better sperm. I think it's a very personal thing. I can't understand people who are asexual or who can rub one out three times in a day or in a row - neither matches my preference (or ability!).

I think it was Billy Connolly who said when you're older "if you get an erection, use it." :P

santana75

One eyed Jack wrote: »

But were you actually masturbating or consuming pornography beforehand to the point where it was having a detrimental effect on your life and preventing you from participating in society?


I get where you're coming from, but with any disordered mentality, the best way to address it is not simply to switch one obsessive compulsive behaviour for another, it's best practice to address the underlying mentality.

Most people don't experience obsessive compulsive thoughts to the point where it actually has that detrimental an effect on their lives. They're able to moderate their thinking so that they're not flipping between the two extremes. They're able to enjoy masturbation and pornography in a healthy way as part of a healthy sex life and as a smaller part again in their daily interactions with other people.



.

I wasn't looking at porn every day but it was still something that concerned me, especially seeing how my attitude to sex and women has changed since I stopped looking at it. There's a couple of great ted talks on porn that I'd recommend every bloke takes a look at
When the behaviour is stopped, it clears the way to see what exactly drives that behaviour. That's why it's a good idea for lads with porn and masturbation issues to stop. You get to learn why you do the things you do, and that information can only come to you if you take a step away from the behaviour.
Anyway, I suspect your the kind of lad who'd argue with a signpost:) so I think you and I should agree to disagree and leave it at that.

One eyed Jack

santana75 wrote: »

I wasn't looking at porn every day but it was still something that concerned me, especially seeing how my attitude to sex and women has changed since I stopped looking at it. There's a couple of great ted talks on porn that I'd recommend every bloke takes a look at
When the behaviour is stopped, it clears the way to see what exactly drives that behaviour. That's why it's a good idea for lads with porn and masturbation issues to stop. You get to learn why you do the things you do, and that information can only come to you if you take a step away from the behaviour.

Anyway, I suspect your the kind of lad who'd argue with a signpost:) so I think you and I should agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Actually I whole-heartedly agree with your last post here, and having overcome sex, alcohol and drug addiction myself, I didn't want to acknowledge what I was doing to myself (and to other people), until I forced myself to take a step back and examine what the hell was going on and exactly why I was operating in self-destruct autopilot mode.

The thing I didn't do though, is go to the other extreme of complete abstinence, because as you've seen yourself, the more extreme you go, the more you're likely to fall off the wagon, and these guys are setting themselves up for all sorts of problems down the line. They can imagine all the correlative benefits in their 20's, with their three months abstinence or their two year abstinence, but look at the poor bastards when they 'fail' these 'challenges', because they've put themselves under tremendous pressure, only through a different extreme. Can you imagine two-year nofap guy in 10 years?

The other fella with his chakras and his cold showers, the blonde lad going on about his clapping power stance and "I don't want to say sexual energy because that sounds kinda spiritual and I'm an atheist"...

I mean, what sort of fcuked up thinking is going on in these guys heads that they're putting themselves under that sort of pressure to abstain from what is a perfectly normal, healthy activity for a human being?

The rationalisations they use to justify this kind of idiocy are the pseudoscientific guff of a cult mentality, and it's an online cult phenomenon. Have you ever discussed the nofap challenge with your friends offline? I'm purposely assuming that you still have friends as you don't seem as far gone as these lads, even though you did come off a bit evangelical about it earlier on in the thread.

Taking a step back is fine, but stepping off the cliff altogether based on nothing more than a leap of faith, is madness, in any man's language.

Doge

Mr Bloat wrote: »

Technically, what's the difference between masturbation and having sex? Ok, I know there is the world of difference between the two but if you boil right down to the nitty gritty, both acts involve stimulation of the sex organs which leads to orgasm.

They affect the areas of your brain responsible for reward and motivation differently.

http://www.livescience.com/46006-can-porn-shrink-brain.html

If you're constantly rewarding your brain i.e in the form of an orgasm, by watching porn it's only natural you're going to have less motivation to try and have sex with a girl in real life, especially if you're single.

Trying to chat up a girl and pleasure you both when the time comes requires a lot of effort and time, it takes confidence, intimacy, chemistry, contact, movement, stamina, concentration etc...

Pleasure from Porn requires only one click or tap of a screen with one hand, and
pulling your dick with the other.

Theres much more than this at play too.

Porn enables you to watch the most beautiful looking people (in your own view), in near perfect scenarios or fantasies, people are always looking for the most perfect kind of porn that suits their desires.

In real life it is far less perfect than that, your partners will generally be less attractive and maybe not into your fantasies, so sex seems far more "normal" than porn.

This can lead to problems with you being able to perform, or just leave you less interested, the extra effort required alone can lead to this.

I know that if i masturbate on the weekend, when I go into town I'm far less interested and motivated to score with someone, to point where i feel a bit anxious around females, maybe because in the back of my head i know that if It does lead to sex that night I wont be able to perform that well having an empty tank.

I have friends who feel the exact way when theyre out also if they leave it too close after a ****(s).

Having less testosterone in your system from **** is bound to affect confidence, I bet it even goes further with how your brain chemistry is altered by **** excessively, dopamine been the most important factor.

Again it seems that all the naysayers on here are the ones who are not willing to try and are instantly dismissing it as bollocks, and focussing on things like religious posts to try and tarnish the idea as best they can.

I'd hate to be that closed minded tbh, when theres a potential world of benefit to be discovered outside of the mental barrier people put in place.

Doge

And also in before:

Wow
Such ****
Very controversial
Doge fapping amaze

santana75

santana75 wrote: »

Man you are up in your head so much

Not a bit of it. As I said portraying rational responses as defense mechanisms is Cult 101 stuff. The "child throwing a wobbler" here is you - not me. The one that turns to tit bits of non speak like that to back up something people did not buy as easily as you hoped - is the one throwing the wobbler and reaching for any and all come backs to support that wobbler no matter how nonsense they are.

I am convinced you are not even reading half my posts while you take offense to them. Because you keep telling me to "take a punt" and in one of my posts I already told you that your assumption I have not is a false one. I already engage with masturbation and porn at a relatively low level. There have been periods of not just weeks but months where I have engaged with neither due to the vagaries of my own life. And I can tell you I saw no down OR upside effects from it at the time. I have a healthy and _relatively_ unique sex life and I - and we - choose to augment it on occasion with porn or masturbation - and sometimes not.

So the "take a punt" approach is useless on someone who has taken out an armada of punts But do keep trying. Do keep flapping if not fapping.

As I said before - I am suspicious from the outset of any product, idea or program supported by nothing more than testimonial. But when testimonial fails and you resort to Cult speak like the Scientology approach of portraying rationality as a defense mechanism - you have not just eroded any credibility you might have hoped to have - you have left a crater in it's wake.

Old Jakey

Why are you guys freaking out so much because other lads are refraining from ****?

Celly Smunt

Old Jakey wrote: »

Why are you guys freaking out so much because other lads are refraining from ****?

Because it's like that lad with a mustache telling you how you should be only drinking craft beer when you're perfectly happy drinking Heineken.

Or its like that lad with a perfectly chizzled 6 pack telling you how you shouldn't eat bread.

Or its like that lad driving a Prius telling you how bad your petrol car is for the environment.

Or its like that lad who does yoga telling you how much it transforms your body and you should do it.

Or its like that lad who goes on a trip to bangkok and comes back with a pony tail telling you how he had a life changing cultural experience while he was on the piss in tourist bars.

It's kind of like that but worse and of absolutely no benefit.

One eyed Jack

Old Jakey wrote: »

Why are you guys freaking out so much because other lads are refraining from ****?

Nobody's actually freaking out here though (leave that to two-year nofap guy, or the nofap makes geniuses idiot).

My objections are to the concept of promoting abstention in young men through some sort of a "challenge". The cheeky volvic challenge is one thing, the don't ever touch yourself again challenge? That's quite something else entirely, and far more sinister, insidious, and quite frankly, just as unhealthy as the behaviour that preceded it.

As I mentioned earlier, it seems to be solely an online phenomenon, and it seems to be turning abstention into a competition, some will go 30 days, some will go 60, 90 days, two years...

Eventually, someone's going to start cheating to bump up their stats, and someone else is gonna monetize the idea of abstention and produce a neat package of 'secret tools to keep you on the righteous path', and these young men instead of seeking professional help for their underlying issues with their mental health, will spend more time buying into the charlatans crap online.

They've just switched online porn for online proselytising, and they're all about spreading the good word and telling people to have faith and just do it, try it for 90 days and you have nothing to lose and everything to gain (there's a couple of reasons I don't drink my own piss either, despite a handful of people who claim it has all sorts of beneficial properties!), flying in the face of all manner of scientific research done over the last number of decades since we stopped the practice of regarding masturbation as a symptom of ill mental health.

When you get lads talking about eastern mysticism and what they read in self-help books, it's never a bad thing to view that sort of 'evidence' with a healthy degree of scepticism.

faceman

People who are dedicated to tantra are into this. Although it's somewhat unfair on men because for women, multiple orgasms is normal but for men, refraining from orgasm is the goal.

I've talked to dedicated tantra blokes who gave refrained for months at a time. They also though claim that to really feel the benefit you need to adjust your diet too. Give up meat etc.

Personally I think it's bonkers.

Wibbs

Doge wrote: »

I know that if i masturbate on the weekend, when I go into town I'm far less interested and motivated to score with someone, to point where i feel a bit anxious around females, maybe because in the back of my head i know that if It does lead to sex that night I wont be able to perform that well having an empty tank.

Ehh. Wut? Kinda glass half empty thinking isn't it? Unless you're much older or in ill health your refractory period between orgasm and arousal is gonna be measured in hours, so an orgasm at 6 in the afternoon shouldn't affect you at 10 that same night. If it did I'd be getting all sorts of tests on my endocrine system done and I say that as someone closer to 50 than 40. Plus if anything "performance" does or should go up on an "empty tank". You last longer for a start. As for motivation and anxiety surely on an empty tank you care less about "scoring" so relax more and increase your chances of hooking up? I'm reading this stuff thinking it's an alien world, or is it me? In fairness I'm odd enough or can be, though judging by the 'tube vids of some no fappers I'm barely in the foothills of odd. They're as creepy as fuq. Like the oddball you pray won't sit beside you on the bus.

Aside; maybe not referring to grown women as "females" might help too?

Having less testosterone in your system from **** is bound to affect confidence, I bet it even goes further with how your brain chemistry is altered by **** excessively, dopamine been the most important factor.

Excessively is the operative word here.

Again it seems that all the naysayers on here are the ones who are not willing to try and are instantly dismissing it as bollocks, and focussing on things like religious posts to try and tarnish the idea as best they can.

I'd hate to be that closed minded tbh, when theres a potential world of benefit to be discovered outside of the mental barrier people put in place.

Honestly, cards on the table? Too many of the acolytes for this kinda thing come across as odd, creepy wild eyed weirdos, or autistic spectrum types. And that's cool, but it kinda has an image problem. Normal men are gonna look at vids like the ones on the last few pages and think, "OK not having a **** turns me into some creepy obsessive oddball. Hmmm, better crack one out then to ward off the odd".

Galwayguy35

faceman wrote: »

People who are dedicated to tantra are into this. Although it's somewhat unfair on men because for women, multiple orgasms is normal but for men, refraining from orgasm is the goal.

I've talked to dedicated tantra blokes who gave refrained for months at a time. They also though claim that to really feel the benefit you need to adjust your diet too. Give up meat etc.

Personally I think it's bonkers.

But they aren't raelly refraining, sure they don't orgasm during sex but they will at some point in their sleep after a few weeks.

OT longest I've gone without cracking one out is 2 weeks.

Wibbs

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

But they aren't raelly refraining, sure they don't orgasm during sex but they will at some point in their sleep after a few weeks.

Aye Gg, if they're not having wet dreams (or wet westerns, where you wake up shooting) IMHO this would suggest something majorly amiss in their reproductive health.

OT longest I've gone without cracking one out is 2 weeks.

OT? That's so OT, ya mad feck ya.

Doge

Wibbs wrote: »

Plus if anything "performance" does or should go up on an "empty tank". You last longer for a start.

Its much harder to get hard and stay hard on an empty tank so I would say no. If youre lucky enough to be able to stay as hard on an empty tank then it would of course work in your favour, but I doubt thats the case with most men.

As for motivation and anxiety surely on an empty tank you care less about "scoring" so relax more and increase your chances of hooking up?

I strongly disagree with that point.
Its all about confidence, been able to make a woman laugh and feel good around you. Being relaxed and uninterested will bore most women, you need to Have that internal drive to make you go for it, and engage with them. Thats even if you approach them, being relaxed on an empty tank you probably wont bother. At least thats the case for me and friends, cant speak for all of men though.

Aside; maybe not referring to grown women as "females" might help too?
Excessively is the operative word here.

I don't go around referring to women as "females" IRL so thats a non-issue!
For some reason I just felt it was the right word to choose in that post.

Honestly, cards on the table? Too many of the acolytes for this kinda thing come across as odd, creepy wild eyed weirdos, or autistic spectrum types. And that's cool, but it kinda has an image problem. Normal men are gonna look at vids like the ones on the last few pages and think, "OK not having a **** turns me into some creepy obsessive oddball. Hmmm, better crack one out then to ward off the odd".

Autistic spectrum? I mean really? You're not half making a huge assumption there, are you even qualified to make that diagnosis in real life? You remind me of all the 4channers who over use that assumption when they see odd behaviour online. A word that is highly being overused online today unfortunately.

Doge

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

But they aren't raelly refraining, sure they don't orgasm during sex but they will at some point in their sleep after a few weeks.

OT longest I've gone without cracking one out is 2 weeks.

Refraining from watching porn is the key here as the evidence points to it affecting the brain as i have linked to in a previous post.

Of course masturbation goes hand in hand with that if you'll excuse the pun!

Nobody is denying that you'll have wet dreams from no-fap, that is if youre also not having sex on a regular monthly basis.

Doge

Celly Smunt wrote: »

Because it's like that lad with a mustache telling you how you should be only drinking craft beer when you're perfectly happy drinking Heineken.

Or its like that lad with a perfectly chizzled 6 pack telling you how you shouldn't eat bread.

Or its like that lad driving a Prius telling you how bad your petrol car is for the environment.

Or its like that lad who does yoga telling you how much it transforms your body and you should do it.

Or its like that lad who goes on a trip to bangkok and comes back with a pony tail telling you how he had a life changing cultural experience while he was on the piss in tourist bars.

8 thanks for a post comparing apples to oranges topped off with:

Celly Smunt wrote: »

It's kind of like that but worse and of absolutely no benefit.

Yeah, its easy to see how fixed the naysayers are on here in their beliefs, without even bothering to try it themselves.

They don't have a pot to piss in imo.

I didnt post on is thread to try and win any debates which is what most seem to be interested in, just to try and come to a reasonable and truthful conclusion on the validity of no-fap.

I think I'll just stick to talking about it to a close friend who has been thriving from it, and try to stay focused on my own development.

Wish you all a healthy fulfilling life wether you fap or don't fap.

Wibbs

Doge wrote: »

Its much harder to get hard and stay hard on an empty tank so I would say no. If youre lucky enough to be able to stay as hard on an empty tank then it would of course work in your favour, but I doubt thats the case with most men.

IMHO if a guy is under thirty and otherwise healthy he should have little or no difficulty getting and maintaining an erection with a woman if he's had an orgasm earlier that day.

I strongly disagree with that point.
Its all about confidence, been able to make a woman laugh and feel good around you. Being relaxed and uninterested will bore most women, you need to Have that internal drive to make you go for it, and engage with them.

Maybe it's a generational thing, but that sounds more like a competition than seduction.

Autistic spectrum? I mean really? You're not half making a huge assumption there, are you even qualified to make that diagnosis in real life? You remind me of all the 4channers who over use that assumption when they see odd behaviour online. A word that is highly being overused online today unfortunately.

True in fairness and a slur on autistic spectrum folks, I'll go old stylee and just describe them as Oddballs(™) with a side order of what women would likely describe as Creepy(™).

Yeah, its easy to see how fixed the naysayers are on here in their beliefs, without even bothering to try it themselves.

Beyond your valid argument about fixed ideas, the average person tends to avoid extremes. They feel content to hang about in the middle. So your average man may masturbate a few times a week and check out porn the odd time. The average man isn't amassing huge chunks of porn and causing penile friction burns. He would see that as extreme and odd behaviour, just as he would see total abstinence as extreme and odd behaviour. Therefore if someone comes along and espouses either extreme they're going to be met with some suspicion and incredulity. Particularly if they're promoting health benefits for the average man.

ancapailldorcha

Doge wrote: »

Yeah, its easy to see how fixed the naysayers are on here in their beliefs, without even bothering to try it themselves.

Well I gave it up for lent once and noticed no benefits whatsoever. As has been pointed out, most guys masturbate a few times at week with the odd bit of internet assistance and lead perfectly normal lives.

Dial Hard

Old Jakey wrote: »

Why are you guys freaking out so much because other lads are refraining from ****?

I think it's the constant conflation of masturbation and porn that's getting on people's nerves.

Old Jakey

Dial Hard wrote: »

I think it's the constant conflation of masturbation and porn that's getting on people's nerves.

Maybe. Just seems strange that lads on here are getting fairly upset over the whole thing.

Old Jakey

Old Jakey wrote: »

Why are you guys freaking out so much because other lads are refraining from ****?

Do not think anyone is freaking out because of that. I know all I did was point out why the claims about the benefits are dubious - at best - and the people peddling the claims freaked out.

And we have just been responding - calmly I think you will find - to their freaking out.

If someone wants to abstain from masturbation or porn - more power to them. I could not care less. But when people start pedalling false science - cajoling people into it by making a challenge or competition out of it - and then even start getting into cult like behaviour by accusing people of "defensive mechanisms" when they explain their lack of interest in it - then there is genuinely good reasons to stand up against that lark.

Doge

Doge wrote: »

They affect the areas of your brain responsible for reward and motivation differently.

Not particularly no. And the link you provided is not a great one. Firstly it is an opinion piece, not a science journal. Secondly any assumptions based on the article make the correlation - causation error. Though the article itself WARNS about this when it says there is no reason currently to suggest that masturbation or porn were the cause of any differences in the brains of those people.

So the link you provided actually tells us nothing at all really. And I always recommend caution with articles like this one that say things like "A new study has found" without citing or naming the study.

As with everything though - and the article acknowledges this indirectly too - the issue we face in society is not things like alcohol, porn, drugs, computer games, soap operas, reality TV, gambling and so forth. But with addiction. And as I said numerous times in the thread - if someone is engaging with masturbation and/or porn to an unhealthy degree then THOSE people will genuinely see benefits from refraining.

It is more the idea that the average person - engaging with these things at an average level - are going to see any real world benefits that I find suspect and dubious. Especially when supported by testimonials and cult speak.

Doge wrote: »

If you're constantly rewarding your brain i.e in the form of an orgasm, by watching porn it's only natural you're going to have less motivation to try and have sex with a girl in real life, especially if you're single.

Again this _might_ be true of extreme cases - but I doubt it is for the average joe. And even then I highlight _might_ because I am unconvinced. It would be like telling me that a person constantly rewarding their hunger with quick-hit ready meals - will find no interest in a well cooked 4 course restaurant meal. Yet in reality it is rare to find indulging in cheap alternatives puts people off seeking or engaging or enjoying the real deal.

Doge wrote: »

I know that if i masturbate on the weekend, when I go into town I'm far less interested and motivated to score with someone, to point where i feel a bit anxious around females, maybe because in the back of my head i know that if It does lead to sex that night I wont be able to perform that well having an empty tank.

I wonder if this is worth discussing with a GP. Because recovery times for the average male between orgasms are generally not that long. Assuming some number of hours between when you indulge - and when you go through the complete mating dance of a night out on the town - before then ending up in a sexual situation - you should generally be well recovered by then. And in fact recovery times have been shown to be faster when a mate other than the one you orgasmed with previously are involved.

So it is quite possible there are other issues at play with you here - which might come to light with a GP visit or two - which you are choosing to blame porn or masturbation for - when in fact it might have nothing to do with it at all or - alternatively - porn and masturbation are merely exacerbating some other issue you already have.

Doge wrote: »

Having less testosterone in your system from **** is bound to affect confidence

I am seeing two things here worth questioning.

Firstly - where did you get the idea masturbation or orgasm reduces testosterone in the system? Perhaps have a read of Jiang M, et al -"A research on the relationship between ejaculation and serum testosterone level in men" - J Zhejiang Univ Sci. (2003). While "A July 2010 "Psychology Today" article concedes that testosterone levels may rise during masturbation. However, the article suggests that ejaculation does not significantly affect testosterone levels: testosterone levels may rise slightly during sexual activity, which includes masturbation, and levels drop back down to normal levels afterward."

Secondly - by what means are you linking testosterone to confidence? It is a regulator of sexual desire / libido but that is not directly a relation to confidence.

Doge wrote: »

Again it seems that all the naysayers on here are the ones who are not willing to try and are instantly dismissing it as bollocks

Neither part of this description fits me or my posts however - if you had read them you would note. I have not "instantly dismissed" anything - nor have I been "unwilling to try".

But the two descriptions do heavily fit into the cult narrative people perpetuating the "challenge" fall too readily into even when it does not apply. So lets watch for that - and I am sure we are all keen to see if your next reply to me replies to my content - or dismisses the content and makes other such cult speak comments about me personally.

Doge wrote: »

Its all about confidence, been able to make a woman laugh and feel good around you. Being relaxed and uninterested will bore most women, you need to Have that internal drive to make you go for it, and engage with them.

Perhaps it says something about YOU however that you need to view a person as a means to a sexual end - in order for you to find any motivation or "internal drive" to interact with them. As such I repeat my earlier suggestion that maybe the issue is with YOU and not with masturbation or porn.

I - for example - see people as an end in and of themselves. I engage with them - enjoy their company - wish to make them happy and laugh and enjoy my company - all for the simple reason that I engage with them as _PEOPLE_ and not merely as walking genitalia existing for my physical pleasure.

Doge wrote: »

Refraining from watching porn is the key here as the evidence points to it affecting the brain as i have linked to in a previous post.

Except - as I have shown - the link supports no such claim _at all_.

Doge wrote: »

I didnt post on is thread to try and win any debates which is what most seem to be interested in, just to try and come to a reasonable and truthful conclusion on the validity of no-fap.

Great - well here is a truthful conclusion for you. There is currently no evidence offered here that the average person will see any significant benefit from it at all - certainly not in the single link you have provided - and that any noticeable benefits from abstinence are likely only observed by people who were engaging with the practice to an unhealthy degree already.

As such the "validity" of the movement as a whole is somewhere between dubious and mis-leading.

Wibbs

I agree 100% with your post T, though we'd slightly part ways with this part.

Deleted User wrote: »

Secondly - by what means are you linking testosterone to confidence? It is a regulator of sexual desire / libido but that is not directly a relation to confidence.

Testosterone is quite the hormone that affects all sorts of bodily systems including the brain and not just in vitro and puberty. It affects competitiveness and confidence if levels are low. Of course, again we're taking somewhat of extremes. When I say low I mean medically speaking, not within the normal range found in men.

Another problem I have with this "no fap" meme is that speaking of testosterone I've read that reduced sexual activity reduces serum levels in the blood(which in turn lowers libido so vicious circle time).

I wonder if this is worth discussing with a GP. Because recovery times for the average male between orgasms are generally not that long. Assuming some number of hours between when you indulge - and when you go through the complete mating dance of a night out on the town - before then ending up in a sexual situation - you should generally be well recovered by then.

That was my thought too T. I'm assuming the OP is a young man and in my humble no way should a healthy young man be having refractory/recovery times that long.

walkingmuch

Hi.

I have gone a week today without ****, because my penis was very sensitive last week and i decided to give it a break for a couple of weeks to see if it gets better. The problem is i cannot stop getting erections and thinking about sex. Anyone else experience this? So frustrated and any tips welcome!

Merkin

I think you might get a better response in the rather popular thread Refraining from Fapping over in The Gentleman's Club. Rules of that forum applicable.

ancapailldorcha

Threads merged.

jamesbere

walkingmuch wrote: »

Hi.

I have gone a week today without ****, because my penis was very sensitive last week and i decided to give it a break for a couple of weeks to see if it gets better. The problem is i cannot stop getting erections and thinking about sex. Anyone else experience this? So frustrated and any tips welcome!

I'd suggest you go to your doctor and see what's wrong with your penis.

walkingmuch

I know i think im too embarrassed to go to my doctor. Ive known him for years and couldnt bare the thoughts of him looking at my penis.

Peregrinus

I doubt that he would be fazed. Besides, better a degree of embarrassment than an untreated conditions which affects your sexual function (and possibly more, if neglected.)

But if you really feel that way, go to a different doctor, one that you don't know so well (or at all).

walkingmuch

Yeh maybe i should. Have come across a condition known as Sclerosing Lymphangitis on in the internet which seems to resemble what im experiencing. Anyone else had this?