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Alf Veedersane wrote: »Still got the lols from Liao Hui being unbalanced.
this is getting off the charts silly now
I do stuff like this so I must still be unbalanced
original poster - do a simple program and then build upon that over the years0 -
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This makes no sense. Two qualities exist when it comes to visuals: muscle size and body fat. Low body fat will give you a lean look. If you think "lean muscularity" is a phenomenon that not only exists but can also be developed then you live in a fantasy land.
Honestly you sound like someone that has read enough to form some very strong but ill-conceived opinions about fitness, and who spends more time arguing about them than actually doing anything to do with fitness.
I don't know why so many people are spending so long arguing with someone that is willing to put out thousands of words of ignorant gibberish - you ruin every fitness thread you post in.
Jay cutler had very low BF % during his peak BB competition days, but he didn't have a lean looking physique. Like I said leanness is not just BF %. It's about the size and proportion of the muscles too. When you ONLY lift weights, your muscles can often be too bulky and make you look a bit bloated. (but obviously some people like that look)
My opinions are not ill-conceived. You just don't share them. (and/or possibly don't fully comprehend them either)
So because I have differing opinions and a different approach to fitness and physique, that means I'm ruining threads? lol Perhaps you should try to be a bit more open minded about different ideas in life and don't ridicule others for being different. :rolleyes:Jiu Jitsu has nothing to do with strength tbh, or strength endurance. It's technical before all else. If you are working out strength doing jiu jitsu, then you are doing it wrong.
If you want to look like Conor McGregor, taking up jiu jitsu is an extremely difficultly way to go about it imo.
Hours and hours of repetitive movements is not how you build power.
Lean muscularity isn't a thing. There is no such thing as lean muscle either.
There is muscle, and there is fat.
Unbalanced how? In what way is his fitness unbalanced? How do you know that from a photo.
As for aesthetics, surely that's subjective. To me that looks miles better than a bodybuilder. What do you find unbalanced?
Yes it is, its the very definition of the word.
You said skipping is why boxers are strong.
Yes I did know that. Isn't exactly what cardiovascular fitness is;
The ability to supply blood/oxygen to the muscles, and the ability of the muscles to produce energy.
Local ATP stores run out in seconds, after than energy supply in some form is needed.
Jiu jitsu requires a great deal of strength. (many different types too)
His body is designed to do a small handful of things very well. By definition this means his fitness is very limited. And it shows in his physique because his body is very stocky and bulky. (perfect for short bursts of explosive power, but not much else)
I said skipping is the reason they are lean and strong, but I never said it was the only reason for their strength. Please read my comments more carefully next time!
I haven't a clue about any of this but I'm putting my money on the guy who gets his fibre from chicken being right....
He looks good to and he wants to help us all so I believe him.
I've no facts or anything so don't be asking
Yeah, like all those irrefutable "facts" you're basing your current opinions on right? :rolleyes:this is getting off the charts silly now
I do stuff like this so I must still be unbalanced
Silly? Someone holds a different opinion and approach to you, so they're labelled as "silly"... hmmm closed-minded much?0 -
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well my opinion is grounded in experience and what i clearly teach and do is no different that what everyone else here is recommending and im doing and my clients are doing OK for itThinkProgress wrote: »Jay cutler had very low BF % during his peak BB competition days, but he didn't have a lean looking physique. Like I said leanness is not just BF %. It's about the size and proportion of the muscles too. When you ONLY lift weights, your muscles can often be too bulky and make you look a bit bloated. (but obviously some people like that look)
My opinions are not ill-conceived. You just don't share them. (and/or possibly don't fully comprehend them either)
So because I have differing opinions and a different approach to fitness and physique, that means I'm ruining threads? lol Perhaps you should try to be a bit more open minded about different ideas in life and don't ridicule others for being different. :rolleyes:
Jiu jitsu requires a great deal of strength. (many different types too)
His body is designed to do a small handful of things very well. By definition this means his fitness is very limited. And it shows in his physique because his body is very stocky and bulky. (perfect for short bursts of explosive power, but not much else)
I said skipping is the reason they are lean and strong, but I never said it was the only reason for their strength. Please read my comments more carefully next time!
Yeah, like all those irrefutable "facts" you're basing your current opinions on right? :rolleyes:
Silly? Someone holds a different opinion and approach to you, so they're labelled as "silly"... hmmm closed-minded much?
you may well be the great sage with all your advice but overall its YOU thats coming off as closed minded not the others0 -
Jay Cutler wasn't lean, lol, sure thing chiefThinkProgress wrote: »Jay cutler had very low BF % during his peak BB competition days, but he didn't have a lean looking physique. Like I said leanness is not just BF %. It's about the size and proportion of the muscles too.
I've no idea what you are basing that on.Jiu jitsu requires a great deal of strength. (many different types too)
Strength helps with and physical activity, especially combat sports. But jiu jitsu, especially jiu jitsu training as opposed to competition, doesn't require a great deal of strength, or anything remotely like it.
Where have you gleamed this jiu jitsu insight from?
So he is unfit because he does something well. Basically because he is aworld record holder. what definition of fitness is that?His body is designed to do a small handful of things very well. By definition this means his fitness is very limited.
My that logic, Usain Bolt is lacking fitness as he is designed to sprint very well.
And Conor mcGregor is lacking fitness, as he is dedicated to fighting well.
What are you measures of fitness?
I read it fully last time. I know you didn't say it was the only thing, that's not why is was stupid.I said skipping is the reason they are lean and strong, but I never said it was the only reason for their strength. Please read my comments more carefully next time!
Skipping has nothing to do with strength. If you actually think it does, then I all hope is lost.0 -
MartyMcFly84 wrote: »There is no set time really. It depends on your goals , your diet, the individual etc
I would recommend doing it in steps though to minimise the amount of fat you gain in each bulking phase. If try bulking for a long time there is a risk you will also put on a considerable about of fat.
I would say for your first time no more than 10kg bulk then stop increasing calories and start a calorie deficit to lower your body fat %. You will have gained lean muscle mass during the bulk and lowering your body fat % is more to show it off.
Some people prefer to bulk during the winter time and do a cutting phase in the spring to get all sexy for the beach
Thanks.
I was hoping for a more straight forward answer like a month of each!
I'm starting to realise that I need to put some serious time into working out my calorie intake, split across the different food group and weight myself!0 -
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Literally nonsense.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, they are not entitled to their own facts. You are stating beliefs that don't match reality. It's not a question of opinion, you're just wrong and nonsensical, and want the same respect as people who make sense, which isn't go to happen and I suspect that is going to be an on-going source of frustration for you.
Great retort. lol ("I don't agree with this or have a worthwhile response, so I'll just label it as nonsense!") Always as strong sign that someone is struggling in a discussion!
Hate to break it to you, but those "facts" you think you're basing your current views on... are not as irrefutable as you think and most likely will have been disputed by other "experts".
There is plenty of evidence and studies to back up my claims too. I just don't go throwing references around to prove every point I make trying to satisfy skeptics on an internet forum. If you want research and studies, go do it yourself. (I have and I don't do other's research for them)
Nobody is forcing you to trust my methods or apply them. But you should try to respect other people's views and opinions. We can all disagree on things. But it's bad manners to ridicule others for holding alternative views to your own!well my opinion is grounded in experience
So is mine. (and many years of personal study and experimentation)
But I still would never claim to be working from perfect science or irrefutable "facts" like many seem to think on here. I'm always learning, and always open to new ideas and perspectives.
Very little in this industry can be regarded as irrefutable. Theories and methods are ever changing and evolving. Many people are simply incapable of truly thinking for themselves or questioning established practices.
There are many sheep in this industry, and the "groupthink" phenomenon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink) is a major problem and a huge barrier to progress.
Sometimes when you think differently, it can make you a lone voice in the dark for a while... but I don't worry about that.
I would worry more if I thought like a sheep!I've no idea what you are basing that on.
And I fear you likely never will either.
If you are genuinely curious, please do some in dept analysis of BJJ and wrestling. They really are fascinating disciplines both from a technical and physical perspective.So he is unfit because he does something well. Basically because he is aworld record holder. what definition of fitness is that?
My that logic, Usain Bolt is lacking fitness as he is designed to sprint very well.
And Conor mcGregor is lacking fitness, as he is dedicated to fighting well.
What are you measures of fitness?
I read it fully last time. I know you didn't say it was the only thing, that's not why is was stupid.
Skipping has nothing to do with strength. If you actually think it does, then I all hope is lost.
He's not unfit for what he does. His body is very well adapted to his chosen discipline of weight lifting. But by the very nature of specialized athletes they obviously have to sacrifice all-round fitness in order to attain higher levels in their chosen discipline.
A marathon runner must focus almost exclusively on stamina/endurance and neglect other areas because their sport requires specialization in that area. And it's no different for any other specialized discipline. (although some sports produce a greater imbalance than others)
Usain Bolt actually does more varied training than many other sprinters, partly because he also requires a degree of speed endurance for the 200m. He has also trained for and competed as far up as 400m, which has given him a much wider range of fitness than the average pure sprinter.
From observing many of his training videos, he also seems to favor more lung busting track workouts over lifting weights in the gym. He does value some strength training too, but he doesn't overdo it... he seems to strike a good balance there. (maybe that's why he's the best?)
I don't think you really fully comprehended what I was saying regarding the skipping. I was never trying to suggest that skipping was used as a primary workout for strength. It's great for creating a lean physique and it certainly aids the body in being more efficient when doing pure strength exercises.
It helps make boxers "lean and strong"... you'll notice I put the word lean first in that statement followed by strong. Are they strong primarily because they skip? No, Of course not! I would have thought that would be obvious to you.
But it does help with a huge variety different aspects of fitness - as I explained in more detail earlier in this thread. The fact you don't know or understand the potential anaerobic (and aerobic) benefits of skipping to strength and power is not surprising.
But the fact you are so quick to dismiss it is a bit disappointing. And it really does show a complete lack of intelligent curiosity on your part.
Again if you are curious about some of these things, do some research. They may seem alien or strange because you haven't heard them before. But some of the best methods are also often the least well known among the general public.
I do often use methods that are less widely practiced, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're BS or I made them up. Skipping has been a staple of boxers for generations. For a wide variety of different reasons! 0 -
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You fear I never will?? lol. Crazy thought here, but you could just answer the question.ThinkProgress wrote: »And I fear you likely never will either.
If you are genuinely curious, please do some in dept analysis of BJJ and wrestling. They really are fascinating disciplines both from a technical and physical perspective.
What are you basing that on?
What in depth analysis of BJJ have you done?He's not unfit for what he does. His body is very well adapted to his chosen discipline of weight lifting. But by the very nature of specialized athletes they obviously have to sacrifice all-round fitness in order to attain higher levels in their chosen discipline.
You said his fitness was unbalanced. I'm asking you to be specific. In what area is his fitness lacking?
I think the attributes you listed earlier were strength, endurance, flexibility, speed.
It's pretty common for sprinters to do both 100m and 200m. While the demands are slightly different. They are both essentially sprinting/short distance events.Usain Bolt actually does more varied training than many other sprinters, partly because he also requires a degree of speed endurance for the 200m. He has also trained for and competed as far up as 400m, which has given him a much wider range of fitness than the average pure sprinter.
You could still describe Bolt as doing a small handful of things very well (short distance running). Which you said was the definition of limited fitness.
By your own definition, Bolt is lacking fitness.
I imagine all sprinters favour sprinting over weights in the gym. :rolleyes:From observing many of his training videos, he also seems to favor more lung busting track workouts over lifting weights in the gym. He does value some strength training too, but he doesn't overdo it... he seems to strike a good balance there. (maybe that's why he's the best?)
The strawman is a weak arguement.It helps make boxers "lean and strong"... you'll notice I put the word lean first in that statement followed by strong. Are they strong primarily because they skip? No, Of course not! I would have thought that would be obvious to you.
I never claimed you meant its the primarily source of strength. You said it was way they were lean and strong. In english irrelevant which word is before/after 'and'. I', not disputing the lean part.
Skipping is not why boxers are strong.
This is the first time you've mentioned anaerobic. I've never said there wasn't an anaerobic demand. (it's undeniably if you've seen me skip).But it does help with a huge variety different aspects of fitness - as I explained in more detail earlier in this thread. The fact you don't know or understand the potential anaerobic (and aerobic) benefits of skipping to strength and power is not surprising.
But the fact you are so quick to dismiss it is a bit disappointing. And it really does show a complete lack of intelligent curiosity on your part.
The fact to have to take a subtle potshot at me, and the the attempt at moving the goalposts, highlights the fact that your argument is pretty weak.
FWIW its worth, I'm incredibly curious, to a fault. Probably why I waste time engaging with nonsense.
Again I never denied that. I know it has, and I also know why it has.Skipping has been a staple of boxers for generations. For a wide variety of different reasons!
Do you simply forget what you said previously. Or do you try to waffle on about something similar and hope everyone else will forget?0 -
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Alf Veedersane wrote: »Otherwise it's just a baseless comment.
If you haven't seen the contradictory studies and research in the world of fitness and nutrition... you really need to pay closer attention.
And no, I won't be playing that game with you of dragging out studies and research to validate my opinions, just so you can desperately try to discredit anything I show you!
I've already told you I don't hang all my faith or trust in "expert" research. I read it and digest it, I take bits from it... but ultimately we must all strive to be experts on our own bodies. You have to learn to trust your own instincts, experience and constantly experiment.
Some people lack that ability to think independently. So they put all their trust and faith in other people's methods and ideas. And then aggressively defend those methods against anyone who dares to think differently.
There are a lot of people out there who don't really want to understand these things deeply or understand their body intimately either. They just want quick results.
I'm not saying it's completely wrong to take elements from what others do. But very few people (particularly in this country) have any interest in deeply questioning things... if something/someone is popular, then that's validation enough for the vast majority of people!
I've always thought completely different to that. I don't take a method or idea as gospel just because it happens to be popular. I see that as a major problem in this industry.
And I can see that mentality on this forum. The reaction to my opinions/ideas is the classic way most people react in this industry. But particularly in this country...
Unless it's popular or widely practiced... it's seen as nonsense. Unless it has countless academics endorsing it, it's boll**ks! :rolleyes:
I might understand that mentality if it were in some other industry. But this is an area that's not even remotely well understood by science.
It's fear of the unknown. Fear of anything unusual or not widely practiced by the herd... and it's a much bigger problem in this country than many others I've lived in.In what area is his fitness lacking?
All the other things he doesn't do. (which is a lot of other things considering he's a highly specialized athlete)
But predominantly cardio-based fitness... I would guess that would be his biggest weakness. It's very hard to reach a high level of cardio fitness when you are being weighed down with such a large frame of heavy bulky muscle mass.
But he doesn't need well balanced fitness. That's not necessary for his chosen discipline.By your own definition, Bolt is lacking fitness.
He has more varied cardio fitness than most pure sprinters, but yes it's correct to say that he would be lacking somewhat in stamina and agility/flexibility etc.
Your body develops uniquely depending on what movements you do. So if you rarely need to change direction at speed, for example... then your body won't be much good at doing that.
We are what we repeatedly do! So if you mostly run fast in a straight line... that's what you're body will be adapted to doing.I imagine all sprinters favour sprinting over weights in the gym. :rolleyes:
Not every sprinter puts as much track work in as they should. Many are addicted to lifting in the gym... (just like many in the general populace)
Cardio is more important for us than having large muscles. Even for sprinters. And it also creates excellent aesthetics too, when practiced in an intelligent manner.This is the first time you've mentioned anaerobic.
FWIW its worth, I'm incredibly curious, to a fault. Probably why I waste time engaging with nonsense.
No it's not. Take a look back, I've mentioned it several times... please try to show me the respect of actually reading what I write. I as I do you!
And if you were genuinely curious, you wouldn't be so quick to dismiss other people's ideas as nonsense and ridicule them. It's a sign of a close-minded individual who fears the unknown!false equivalence between experts and non-experts that is an increasingly pernicious feature of our public discourse.
Experts on what? Moving and eating? Because that's essentially what exercise and nutrition is when you boil it down, and we don't understand enough to really define in much more dept than that.
I have years of study and experience behind me, but I'm still not arrogant enough to think I'm working with perfectly understood concepts here. And I would never consider myself an expert - except perhaps on my own body!
(but even then, it's still a bit arrogant to use the word "expert" in this particular field of study)
If more people learned to trust their instincts, experiment with different things and question EVERYTHING... They would become "experts" on their own bodies and we wouldn't need all these so-called "experts" with their big egos and pseudo science masquerading as real science!
This stuff is mostly all opinions. Somewhat educated opinion perhaps, but still not irrefutable scientific facts! 0 -
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I asked you to be specific. Can you list these things?
You mentioned cardio, I don't imagine his cardio is particularly poor tbh, purely on the grounds of the condition he is in. While he's obviously not going to set any long distance world records. I imagine he's give most week warriors a run for their money.
I thought I was quite specific. He trains and competes in a sport that requires a very narrow set of physical traits.
Cardio is not just about long distance. (in fact that's one of the biggest misconceptions regarding cardio fitness)Seriously?
Usain Bolt lacks agility and flexibility (his stride length is one of the longest)?
How can you say Usain Bolt is lacking fitness. That's absurd.
we are best at what we do most often, but that doesn't mean we are bad at everything we never do.
He's lacking certain types of fitness - yes!
I never said he was unhealthy, just slightly unbalanced. (I'm sure he's not worried)What unknown? I've called you on posts where I know you were off the mark.
For example the BJJ stuff, I notice you skipped over those questions?
You lack respect for alternative views. I think it's because you fear the unknown... I might be wrong, but that's been my experience with many people.
I skipped over it because I got the strong suspicion you were trying to troll me. (suggesting you don't need strength or strength endurance for BJJ and wrestling is frankly ridiculous!)
And before you say it... requiring skill doesn't negate the need to for some physical attributes too. (they're not playing chess, it's a physical sport with skill)0 -
The fact the sport requires a narrow set of physical traits doesn't mean he only posses a narrow set of physical traits. (It's not like I was talking about Rezazadeh or some other SHW)ThinkProgress wrote: »I thought I was quite specific. He trains and competes in a sport that requires a very narrow set of physical traits.
So, for the third time. Can you list the area he is lacking in fitness, please.
I never said it was? I'm not sure how that helps you, if anything his short distance performance would be better.Cardio is not just about long distance. (in fact that's one of the biggest misconceptions regarding cardio fitness)
As I said previous, claiming Usain Bolt is unfit in any form is ridiculous.He's lacking certain types of fitness - yes!
I never said he was unhealthy, just slightly unbalanced. (I'm sure he's not worried)
To blunt, you are wronG about me there.You lack respect for alternative views. I think it's because you fear the unknown... I might be wrong, but that's been my experience with many people.
My issue is nothing to do with being "alternative". It's purely the excessive claims, with a lack of clarity, or failing to back them up when asked.
I never said it doesn't require strength? In fact I explicitly stated that strength will help with any physically activity, especially combat sports.I skipped over it because I got the strong suspicion you were trying to troll me. (suggesting you don't need strength or strength endurance for BJJ and wrestling is frankly ridiculous!)
And before you say it... requiring skill doesn't negate the need to for some physical attributes too. (they're not playing chess, it's a physical sport with skill)
What was it you said, please try to show me the respect of actually reading what I write.
There's a huge difference between a strength being an advantage in a sport, and actually building that strength through training the sport.
So, now you know I'm not trolling;
What are you basing that on?
What in depth analysis of BJJ have you done?0 -
The fact the sport requires a narrow set of physical traits doesn't mean he only posses a narrow set of physical traits. (It's not like I was talking about Rezazadeh or some other SHW)
So, for the third time. Can you list the area he is lacking in fitness, please.
Actually I think you'll find it does... but we'll have to agree to disagree on that one!
You can keep asking me all you want, I've already given you an answer that's more than sufficient. If you are hungry for something more I would suggest you might need to start studying and reading a bit more in dept....I never said it was? I'm not sure how that helps you, if anything his short distance performance would be better.
Your cardio will be lacking if you rarely need to use it. Just like your strength will be lacking if you rarely require it.There's a huge difference between a strength being an advantage in a sport, and actually building that strength through training the sport.
Nope. The fact you hold that opinion, shows me just how much lacking your knowledge is.
You think BJJ and wrestling training is almost exclusively about improving skills - and that is a MAJOR misconception to hold.
The physical attributes you gain from practicing those disciplines is actually more important and more functional than what you gain from lifting in the gym or doing separate strength work.
Just like the strength and fitness you gain from climbing a big rock/cliff/rock wall is FAR more valuable than anything you might gain in the gym for something like rock climbing etc.
Additional strength work is useful to supplement these things (particularly for helping with weaker muscles that you use less often - to correct imbalances, prevent injuries etc), but it's not as important as the sport-specific training you do.
Hands down, the best way to build strength and fitness for BJJ or wresting - IS TO PRACTICE BJJ AND WRESTLING!
It should be common sense, but shockingly it just seems to go right over some people's heads!
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Not really. Common sense dictates that it doesn't.ThinkProgress wrote: »Actually I think you'll find it does... but we'll have to agree to disagree on that one!
For example, just because doesn't require high levels of flexibility, doesn't mean everyone that practices that sport is inflexible.
I'm asking for your opinion? How could I figure out your own opinion from studying?You can keep asking me all you want, I've already given you an answer that's more than sufficient. If you are hungry for something more I would suggest you might need to start studying and reading a bit more in dept....
You mentioned cardio, is that it?
Fairly weak case tbh, I'd fancy a top 77kg lifter to beat 99% of the population in a 1000m race.
No I never said that.You think BJJ and wrestling training is almost exclusively about improving skills - and that is a MAJOR misconception to hold.
That's a fairly retarded suggestion tbh.
I agree, rock climbing is a strength based activity, with specific demands. it would be very hard to replicate the isometric holds, and the specific.Just like the strength and fitness you gain from climbing a big rock/cliff/rock wall is FAR more valuable than anything you might gain in the gym for something like rock climbing etc.
BJJ isn't.
Hands down the best way to get better at BJJ is to do BJJ. This has nothing to do with getting stronger. This is an incredibly simple idea.Hands down, the best way to build strength and fitness for BJJ or wresting - IS TO PRACTICE BJJ AND WRESTLING!
It should be common sense, but shockingly it just seems to go right over some people's heads!
There is very little strength used in an hour or two of BJJ training.
As you said yourself;Just like your strength will be lacking if you rarely require it.0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytwgMEIv71o
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