Eir rural FTTH thread

Marlow

Allison Puny Appetite wrote: »

I don't think we are going to agree on this. I have a lot more faith in the NBP than you seem to. I don't foresee a situation where there would be two or more separate wholesale fibre networks built across rural Ireland but who knows what the future holds.

As long as OpenEir undermines their own wholesale customers with their retail arm .. and they do that on a daily basis and is the more expensive platform, SIRO will be the favoured platform by providers.

Nevermind all the other issues, that Eir have when talking wholesale.

That brings us to supply and demand. The more providers SIRO picks up, the more will they extend their build-out. And for the size of SIRO (they are still a small business), they're actually doing really well.

Even when it comes to installations. Eir's track-record is less than glamour ... like .. people are taking the day off work to get installed just to find out, the installer cancelled the appointment .. more than once. That's the norm. Not the exception. I know somebody who has 4 cancelled appointments by Eir/KN and still no FTTH. In the end, he gave up and went back to his old provider, who's not Eir.

I know of another installation (Eir), where the installer turns up ..new van, ladders on the roof. Determines, it's a installation requiring ladders. States, he's not trained on ladders and leaves.

Eir will not meet their targets with that carry on. They're way behind as it is.

/M

KOR101

Marlow wrote: »

And you think Eir is hitting their target ? I've heard something of approx 44 actual installations a week ... nationwide .. when it comes to Eir and OpenEIR FTTH.

Was supported to be over 400 a week.

Department is saying over 6,000 in the nine months to June. Eir is saying (Silicon Republic interview) about 12,000 rural connections as of now. What's your source?

Marlow

KOR101 wrote: »

What's your source?

I know somebody on the inside And I would never trust the official figures. Also, if your 2 figures would match, that would mean 6000 installations done in 3 months. That's 500 per week. That's what they were "supposed" to get done. But they don't because their contractors can't get them done.

Also, if they did 6000 in 9 months, how did they manage to do 3x as much in the next 3 months without increased work force ? Doesn't add up.

The figures MAY be homes passed. But they are not actual homes connected.

/M

Marlow

Peppa Cig wrote: »

Does the Friztzbox do a good job?

I guess your with Digiweb?

The Fritz!box is an expensive, but very good device, yes.

And no, I'm not with Digiweb. There are other providers on SIRO. This one isn't officially listed in partners ... yet.

/M

tsue921i8wljb3

Marlow wrote: »

I know somebody on the inside And I would never trust the official figures. Also, if your 2 figures would match, that would mean 6000 installations done in 3 months. That's 500 per week. That's what they were "supposed" to get done. But they don't because their contractors can't get them done.

Also, if they did 6000 in 9 months, how did they manage to do 3x as much in the next 3 months without increased work force ? Doesn't add up.

The figures MAY be homes passed. But they are not actual homes connected.

/M

How many homes have SIRO connected?

tsue921i8wljb3

Marlow wrote: »

The Fritz!box is an expensive, but very good device, yes.

And no, I'm not with Digiweb. There are other providers on SIRO. This one isn't officially listed in partners ... yet.

/M

So you are a SIRO shill. I assume it is your own company?

Marlow

Marlow wrote: »

I know somebody on the inside And I would never trust the official figures. Also, if your 2 figures would match, that would mean 6000 installations done in 3 months. That's 500 per week. That's what they were "supposed" to get done. But they don't because their contractors can't get them done.

Also, if they did 6000 in 9 months, how did they manage to do 3x as much in the next 3 months without increased work force ? Doesn't add up.

The figures MAY be homes passed. But they are not actual homes connected.

/M

Anecdotally, in the are I live in I would say that after six months about 30% of the houses passed by fibre have had FTTH installed, the remainder are either elderly or don't care.

Marlow

Allison Puny Appetite wrote: »

So you are a SIRO shill. I assume it is your own company?

I have to deal with OpenEIR and SIRO and other things in regards of my work . Who I work for has nothing to do with my opinions or my being here.

Don't make this personal. I'm expressing my personal opinion here based on what I've seen in the last 2 decades working in telecoms.

/M

Marlow

Deleted User wrote: »

Anecdotally, in the are I live in I would say that after six months about 30% of the houses passed by fibre have had FTTH installed, the remainder are either elderly or don't care.

That's pretty good. I've unfortunatly seen too many fails lately. I'm on the other side of the town itself and no FTTH in sight. It passes on the main road. Lots of estates bypassed.

/M

tsue921i8wljb3

Latest Comreg Quarterly report (Q2 2017) has 19125 FTTH connections. This is a 58.4% increase quarter on quarter. Unfortunately the figures are not broken down by operator.

https://www.comreg.ie/publication/quarterly-key-data-report-q2-2017/

Marlow

Allison Puny Appetite wrote: »

Latest Comreg Quarterly report (Q2 2017) has 19125 FTTH connections. This is a 58.4% increase quarter on quarter. Unfortunately the figures are not broken down by operator.

https://www.comreg.ie/publication/quarterly-key-data-report-q2-2017/

Ok .. do a vague assumption so: IF Eir had 6000 homes done by June .. (which is end Q2), then all the other 13125 FTTH connections of those 19125 would be other operators. e-Net only had the Loughrea test-bed done by then. They launched their FTTX product 2 weeks ago or so. Leaves SIRO and a few independant roll-outs.

Paints a pretty clear picture.

/M

tsue921i8wljb3

Marlow wrote: »

Ok .. do a vague assumption so: IF Eir had 6000 homes done by June .. (which is end Q2), then all the other 13125 FTTH connections of those 19125 would be other operators.

Paints a pretty clear picture.

/M

Not necessarily. eir have been wholesaling FTTH since late 2014, early 2015 in certain urban areas. I would wager that they account for the greatest proportion of the 19125 figure.

If you could clarify the SIRO connection figure all would be clear.

Marlow

Allison Puny Appetite wrote: »

If you could clarify the SIRO connection figure all would be clear.

Can't find official figures atm and each provider is only given access to figures for towns/cities, they're signed up for .. plus those are confidential.

It's the same with OpenEIR. One can extract the figures with a bit of poking and a lot of work, but they'd be confidential under NDA.

I'll have a dig on Monday and see, if I can get some official ones.

/M

Pangea

If a new house is built in a ftth enabled area,, can they avail of it?

Marlow

KOR101 wrote: »

Department is saying over 6,000 in the nine months to June. Eir is saying (Silicon Republic interview) about 12,000 rural connections as of now.

Allison Puny Appetite wrote: »

Latest Comreg Quarterly report (Q2 2017) has 19125 FTTH connections. This is a 58.4% increase quarter on quarter. Unfortunately the figures are not broken down by operator.

https://www.comreg.ie/publication/quarterly-key-data-report-q2-2017/

If there's a 58.4% increase quarter on quarter, how did Eir manage to increase their figures by 100% in the last one ? So .. assuming the other providers also played into that figure (of 58.4%), then the figures released by Eir are ........

/M

Marlow

Pangea wrote: »

If a new house is built in a ftth enabled area,, can they get avail of it?

In theory, yes .. if there's space on the DP and not all ports used.

/M

tsue921i8wljb3

Marlow wrote: »

If there's a 58.4% increase quarter on quarter, how did Eir manage to increase their figures by 100% in the last one ? So .. assuming the other providers also played into that figure (of 58.4%), then the figures released by Eir are ........

/M

It is possible that the 6122 figure as quoted by the Department is the correct figure for premises connected under the rural 300,000 scheme.

http://www.dccae.gov.ie/en-ie/communications/topics/Broadband/national-broadband-plan/latest-news/Pages/Latest-News.aspx

Richard Moat mentions 12000 in a Silicon Republic interview. Perhaps this is their combined FTTH connection number (urban and rural). Although he does mention rural he may be confusing the totals or he may have been misquoted.

https://www.siliconrepublic.com/comms/eir-richard-moat

Marlow

Marlow wrote: »

In theory, yes .. if there's space on the DP and not all ports used.

/M

I would imagine (and expect) that as this is a new infrastructure rollout that they would plan for future expansion in the area installed.

It would be very short sighted not to build in spare capacity.

Marlow

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I would imagine (and expect) that as this is a new infrastructure rollout that they would plan for future expansion in the area installed.

It would be very short sighted not to build in spare capacity.

Well. My experience says limited foresight.

/M

The Cush

Surely on a 36 fibre rural cable combined with secondary splitters there will be more than enough ports if required

tsue921i8wljb3

The Cush wrote: »

Surely on a 36 fibre rural cable combined with secondary splitters there will be more than enough ports if required

Of course there will. It is anti eir ranting at this stage.

Marlow

Allison Puny Appetite wrote: »

Of course there will. It is anti eir ranting at this stage.

Not really. When i first moved to Ireland, I had to fight Eircom 4 months to get DSL in a 2 year old estate right across from Dell in Cabinteely. They claimed the lines were too bad. Turns out, they ran out of ports and didn't want to install another DSLAM. I only managed to get DSL, when I pushed it through Dells Account Manager in Eircom.

When I moved to Galway, I had to build a 20km fixed wireless link across Galway Bay to get broadband. That area didn't get DSL until about 4 years ago.

Another example: Roscam between Oranmore and Galway was one of the first DSL enabled areas there. Then more houses got build and to supply the demand of phone lines, Eircom put in multiplexers. Suddenly anyone after that couldn't get DSL anymore. That wasn't fixed until about 1 or 2 years ago.

I worked all over the country, and that lack of foresight has been the norm. Plenty of other examples, I can pull up. It would be refreshing, if it has changed. I'm just realistic.

There is a reason, that there are so many small Internet Providers all over the country.

/M

tsue921i8wljb3

Marlow wrote: »

Not really. When i first moved to Ireland, I had to fight Eircom 4 months to get DSL in a 2 year old estate right across from Dell in Cabinteely. They claimed the lines were too bad. Turns out, they ran out of ports and didn't want to install another DSLAM. I only managed to get DSL, when I pushed it through Dells Account Manager in Eircom.

When I moved to Galway, I had to build a 20km fixed wireless link across Galway Bay to get broadband. That area didn't get DSL until about 4 years ago.

Another example: Roscam between Oranmore and Galway was one of the first DSL enabled areas there. Then more houses got build and to supply the demand of phone lines, Eircom put in multiplexers. Suddenly anyone after that couldn't get DSL anymore. That wasn't fixed until about 1 or 2 years ago.

I worked all over the country, and that lack of foresight has been the norm. It would be refreshing, if it has changed. I'm just realistic.

/M

I'm sorry that you had such experiences. I'm sure many here could give similar tales. I have been as critical as anyone here of eir and their claims especially the 2018 deadline.

However I believe companies can change ethos especially when their core market is threatened. I think suggesting that they would build a brand new network without sufficient expansion capacity is doing those in network design a great disservice.

When I drive through rural areas the only progress I see is predominantly KN Networks doing ground work, running cable and installing distribution boxes all on behalf of eir.

Marlow

Marlow wrote: »

Not really. When i first moved to Ireland, I had to fight Eircom 4 months to get DSL in a 2 year old estate right across from Dell in Cabinteely. They claimed the lines were too bad. Turns out, they ran out of ports and didn't want to install another DSLAM. I only managed to get DSL, when I pushed it through Dells Account Manager in Eircom.

When I moved to Galway, I had to build a 20km fixed wireless link across Galway Bay to get broadband. That area didn't get DSL until about 4 years ago.

Another example: Roscam between Oranmore and Galway was one of the first DSL enabled areas there. Then more houses got build and to supply the demand of phone lines, Eircom put in multiplexers. Suddenly anyone after that couldn't get DSL anymore. That wasn't fixed until about 1 or 2 years ago.

I worked all over the country, and that lack of foresight has been the norm. Plenty of other examples, I can pull up. It would be refreshing, if it has changed. I'm just realistic.

There is a reason, that there are so many small Internet Providers all over the country.

/M

There's a big difference between adding ADSL to existing copper infrastructure and building a completely new parallel fibre infrastructure that will eventually supersede the existing copper. It was installed in as many exchanges as possible but never with the idea of supplying 100% of the PSTN customers, just as many as possible. It was better to have 100% of exchanges with about 60% capable of getting ADSL than to have 60% of exchanges with 100% access.

The Cush

All the issues Marlow refer to above are DSL related, shortage of ports/distance related etc., FTTH shouldn't have any of these issues.

Marlow

Allison Puny Appetite wrote: »

I'm sorry that you had such experiences. I'm sure many here could give similar tales. I have been as critical as anyone here of eir and their claims especially the 2018 deadline.

I don't believe, that Eir, SIRO nor eNet will manage to meet their deadlines. The job has been underestimated and especially Eir has a lot of catch up to do, as they have to repair existing stuff at the same time. The one thing that helps them is the NGN infrastructure they've build up over time.

SIRO doesn't need this, as they leave it to the the providers to arrange to meet them. The same principle can apply to OpenEir based providers .. depending on what way they interconnect with OpenEir.

Allison Puny Appetite wrote: »

However I believe companies can change ethos especially when their core market is threatened. I think suggesting that they would build a brand new network without sufficient expansion capacity is doing those in network design a great disservice.

Eir certainly is threatened in their core market. That's for sure. NTL/UPC/Virgin is something they have ignored for years and as of about 2 years ago, they can't anymore. Now they've also got to compete with 2 other wholesale platforms, so both their retail and wholesale markets are being attacked.

So yes, I certainly hope, they build it with a bit of foresight. I'm just a realist.

Allison Puny Appetite wrote: »

When I drive through rural areas the only progress I see is predominantly KN Networks doing ground work, running cable and installing distribution boxes all on behalf of eir.

These days, I roam anywhere between the Aran Islands and Athlone, anything from South Mayo to Limerick work wise. And yes, with the FTTH install, they've been out in full force and made short process of building the infrastructure. Where they are being let down is by the engineers installing the final product. Even the providers on the OpenEIR platform are seeing these issues, on a daily basis. That's not a problem caused by Eir, but by their choice of contractor. And the issue there is, that Eir is a slow freighter, that doesn't make quick decisions. So it takes a long time to rectify issues. Hence the delays in their roll-out.

Between Sligo and Carrick-on-Shannon for example, you barely have 3G, no DSL and all they are currently rolling out in the villages is FTTC. If you're 2km out around Lough Key or Lough Arrow, you're out of luck. Leitrim is the same, mostly. Those are all areas planned for end 2018.

In Galway Eir bypassed some dense suburbs with no decent broadband and then enabled small enclaves around Galway Bay and Lough Corrib. Those builds show more like attempts to remove areas from the NBP, so that nobody gets funding to serve them.

/M

Marlow

Deleted User wrote: »

There's a big difference between adding ADSL to existing copper infrastructure and building a completely new parallel fibre infrastructure that will eventually supersede the existing copper. It was installed in as many exchanges as possible but never with the idea of supplying 100% of the PSTN customers, just as many as possible. It was better to have 100% of exchanges with about 60% capable of getting ADSL than to have 60% of exchanges with 100% access.

The thing is, what's being done here now, has been done in Scandinavia over 10 years ago. In the meanwhile Eir has been installing outdated infrastructure.

It doesn't quite provide confidence, that they are getting it right this time. Generally they only get things done, when the regulator forces them. So the competition this time around is a good thing.

/M

Pangea

Marlow wrote: »

In theory, yes .. if there's space on the DP and not all ports used.

/M

Thanks, my brother just built a house and the fibre is on his road so he's wondering can he get it.

BarryM

Marlow wrote: »

People cling to the NBP, when it's just the 3rd (or 4th) useless government attempt at archieving nothing and wasting tax money. Why would you think, that this attempt would be successful in any way, when any previous attempt first got budget cuts, and then failed, as it was half baked or worse in the first place ?/M

Whoa! The actual (or to be more precise, vaguely suggested) NBP is a mess, but, since we live in a world of privatised telecom, as our gov keeps reminding us, some people will never get any FTTx, 'cos private suppliers won't be bothered.

So, a properly planned and executed plan would allow for everybody to have the CHOICE. All we want is that.

+, the remark about eir upstaging the NBP in a post above doesn't make sense, even if it is probably true. eir want to get a major bit of the NBP, to subsidise their already high pricing, but want to be paid to do the hard bits, so, why bypass the easy parts (revenue generating areas) to do the relatively hard parts? Doesn't make sense to me.

ED E

Marlow wrote: »

The thing is, what's being done here now, has been done in Scandinavia over 10 years ago. In the meanwhile Eir has been installing outdated infrastructure.

It doesn't quite provide confidence, that they are getting it right this time. Generally they only get things done, when the regulator forces them. So the competition this time around is a good thing.

/M

Not really. Huawei are one of/the biggest OEM in the space, OE is their trial partner. Yes copper may be close to EOL but VDS2+INP+Supervector is in no way outdated yet. Its bleeding edge..

Eir of Today isn't 90s eircom, as the old P&T cohort retire the mindset has gradually changed.