Cheapest hybrid/EV to buy in Ireland

robnet77

Hello,
I'm considering buying a hybrid/EV vehicle.

After reading around, I cannot figure out the actual cost of buying such vehicle at this time.

I don't know if I would go with PCP, in general I'm asking which price I would pay for a brand new Yaris/Leaf/Prius or whichever model is the cheapest (if possible seating at least 5 people though).

Grants = 5.000€ but already included in price lists, it seems?
Additional grant of zero/reduced VRT (2.500€ discount) for EV/hybrids still in place?
Scrappage deals still on with Toyota/Nissan etc.?

I heard a co-worker bought a Prius for 16k, instead of 25k, after grants and 7k for his old car.
In this forum I read a lot of info and I will visit some dealers soon, but I would like to know some basic info before please.

robnet77

robnet77 wrote: »

Hello,
I'm considering buying a hybrid/EV vehicle.

After reading around, I cannot figure out the actual cost of buying such vehicle at this time.

I don't know if I would go with PCP, in general I'm asking which price I would pay for a brand new Yaris/Leaf/Prius or whichever model is the cheapest (if possible seating at least 5 people though).

Grants = 5.000€ but already included in price lists, it seems?
Additional grant of zero/reduced VRT (2.500€ discount) for EV/hybrids still in place?
Scrappage deals still on with Toyota/Nissan etc.?

I heard a co-worker bought a Prius for 16k, instead of 25k, after grants and 7k for his old car.
In this forum I read a lot of info and I will visit some dealers soon, but I would like to know some basic info before please.

If you're going with a new car and considering a Prius, it's pretty pricey new and a 30 kwh leaf would be still a bit cheaper with a real 100 miles range and more if you drive handy enough. The newer battery should be able to order soon in Ireland for 2016. The Leaf would obviously be far cheaper to run than any hybrid and in my opinion far better to drive, far better to drive than any ice to be honest.

The prius is however one of the most reliable cars ever built and well proven and one car I would not hesitate to recommend even with high mileage.

I had a MK II 2007 prius and it was definitely a good car and 4.8L per 100 kms easy enough to achieve but driving the leaf there is no comparison and a fraction of the running costs.

robnet77

Deleted User wrote: »

If you're going with a new car and considering a Prius, it's pretty pricey new and a 30 kwh leaf would be still a bit cheaper with a real 100 miles range and more if you drive handy enough. The newer battery should be able to order soon in Ireland for 2016. The Leaf would obviously be far cheaper to run than any hybrid and in my opinion far better to drive, far better to drive than any ice to be honest.

The prius is however one of the most reliable cars ever built and well proven and one car I would not hesitate to recommend even with high mileage.

I had a MK II 2007 prius and it was definitely a good car and 4.8L per 100 kms easy enough to achieve but driving the leaf there is no comparison and a fraction of the running costs.

I'm not considering a Prius yet, I am only considering hybrid/EV cars with a purchase price lower than 20k, even better if lower than 15k please.

Can you maybe crunch some numbers regarding the purchase cost please?

Are you looking to buy new ?

Yaris Hybrid starts at 19,200 Euro's. You might get a 141 Leaf with better battery in the U.K for that.

A 2nd hand prius would be far better if the size of the yaris is too small. But either way far better cars than diesels.

robnet77

Deleted User wrote: »

Are you looking to buy new ?

Yaris Hybrid starts at 19,200 Euro's. You might get a 141 Leaf with better battery in the U.K for that.

A 2nd hand prius would be far better if the size of the yaris is too small. But either way far better cars than diesels.

thanks, so I could maybe buy a Yaris for 19k and get a further discount if I give my current 2004 diesel vehicle to them.
Is the 19k price after all grants/VRT reduction?

I would go second hand only if this does not mean buying old technologies (e.g. batteries with short distance range, long charging times, etc.).

A hybrid Prius could cost the same price, after grants?

robnet77

robnet77 wrote: »

thanks, so I could maybe buy a Yaris for 19k and get a further discount if I give my current 2004 diesel vehicle to them.
Is the 19k price after all grants/VRT reduction?

I would go second hand only if this does not mean buying old technologies (e.g. batteries with short distance range, long charging times, etc.).

A hybrid Prius could cost the same price, after grants?

Yep the 19K is the price including VRT reduction , there''s no grant on a hybrid.

You could trade in your 2004 diesel, your diesel will seem like a tractor in comparison to the hybrid.

You would go 2nd hand on a hybrid ? or EV ?

If Hybrid then the Prius is a better car in general and better hybrid, and the tech in the 2009 MK III 2015 Prius hasn't changed much and they last a very long time.

Going the EV route, then the leaf has had a change in 2013 and then a change to the battery in 2014 and a longer range due in 2016 and 150-200 miles in 2018 along with other electrics becoming available but the EV would save you much more money over the same time over the hybrid.

Either way a 2nd hand hybrid is definitely a better way to go if you don't want the EV.

robnet77

Deleted User wrote: »

Yep the 19K is the price including VRT reduction , there''s no grant on a hybrid.

You could trade in your 2004 diesel, your diesel will seem like a tractor in comparison to the hybrid.

You would go 2nd hand on a hybrid ? or EV ?

If Hybrid then the Prius is a better car in general and better hybrid, and the tech in the 2009 MK III 2015 Prius hasn't changed much and they last a very long time.

Going the EV route, then the leaf has had a change in 2013 and then a change to the battery in 2014 and a longer range due in 2016 and 150-200 miles in 2018 along with other electrics becoming available but the EV would save you much more money over the same time over the hybrid.

Either way a 2nd hand hybrid is definitely a better way to go if you don't want the EV.

thanks, what do you think of this used Leaf for example? (16K)

http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/nissan/leaf/used-2014-141-nissan-leaf-xe-6-6-kw-f-kildare-fpa-201533235864362

Mainly I am referring to its description:

Nissan LEAF 2014 XE (6.6kw) I can organise a discount on a home charger. Public charging cable supplied.

Upgrades: 6.6 kw charger(charge In half the time of standard LEAF) 4 hours Factory tinted glass, Nissan LEAF Mats, Fast charge Port (charge in 30 mins from Rapid charger), Cd player, Bluetooth, Aircon, Climate control, Alarm, Remote central locking, Traction Control.

This is a well priced Electric car with rare 6.6 kw charger in excellent condition from The EV Company

more

robnet77

robnet77 wrote: »

thanks, what do you think of this used Leaf for example? (16K)

http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/nissan/leaf/used-2014-141-nissan-leaf-xe-6-6-kw-f-kildare-fpa-201533235864362

Mainly I am referring to its description:

Nissan LEAF 2014 XE (6.6kw) I can organise a discount on a home charger. Public charging cable supplied.

Upgrades: 6.6 kw charger(charge In half the time of standard LEAF) 4 hours Factory tinted glass, Nissan LEAF Mats, Fast charge Port (charge in 30 mins from Rapid charger), Cd player, Bluetooth, Aircon, Climate control, Alarm, Remote central locking, Traction Control.

This is a well priced Electric car with rare 6.6 kw charger in excellent condition from The EV Company

more

If it checks out ok you won't find a car cheaper to run, do a full car history check as usual and if it's a U.K car try get the mileage checked by calling the garage it was serviced.

This leaf is the XE basic trim with no carwings which means you can't activate the cars heating or AC remotely but you can still set the timer so it's warm in the mornings when you get in and fully defrosted/defogged.

It won't have sat nav or parking camera but imo the 6.6 Kw charger is a lot more useful.

You can charge from the standard street charge points from about 25% - 90% in about 2 hrs compared to 4 with the standard charger. Really useful.

You can still charge in 30 mins from about 18% to 80% at a fast charger 10 mins longer in colder weather.

This trim also doesn't have the more efficient heat pump but depending on you daily mileage the heat pump may be of no benefit to your range. Range at 60 mph would be about 70 miles max in cooler weather to you be needing to be at a charge point by 60 miles and in really bad stormy wet weather could be less but there are a lot of fast chargers today and standard street chargers to plug in at each opportunity if you feel you will run low.

The heat pump is more efficient , I drive 84 miles a day and stop for 10 mins at a fast charger.

I've driven almost 20,000 kms since January and if I had got all this from home on the night rate would have cost me about 300 Euro's compared to about 1300 Euro's in a 55 mpg diesel that's if you can at all get 55 mpg per tank.

In fine warm weather you could get 140 kms max at about 80 Kph.

Dexter1979

There are a few ex-demo Renault Zoe's out there starting at around 15k. Even the entry model (Expression) has Sat Nav, Cruise Control and remote pre-heating via the key. A PCP on one of them could work out very reasonable. The PCP price could include the battery lease. The charger is the best of any EV in Ireland.

robnet77

Deleted User wrote: »

If it checks out ok you won't find a car cheaper to run, do a full car history check as usual and if it's a U.K car try get the mileage checked by calling the garage it was serviced.

This leaf is the XE basic trim with no carwings which means you can't activate the cars heating or AC remotely but you can still set the timer so it's warm in the mornings when you get in and fully defrosted/defogged.

It won't have sat nav or parking camera but imo the 6.6 Kw charger is a lot more useful.

You can charge from the standard street charge points from about 25% - 90% in about 2 hrs compared to 4 with the standard charger. Really useful.

You can still charge in 30 mins from about 18% to 80% at a fast charger 10 mins longer in colder weather.

This trim also doesn't have the more efficient heat pump but depending on you daily mileage the heat pump may be of no benefit to your range. Range at 60 mph would be about 70 miles max in cooler weather to you be needing to be at a charge point by 60 miles and in really bad stormy wet weather could be less but there are a lot of fast chargers today and standard street chargers to plug in at each opportunity if you feel you will run low.

The heat pump is more efficient , I drive 84 miles a day and stop for 10 mins at a fast charger.

I've driven almost 20,000 kms since January and if I had got all this from home on the night rate would have cost me about 300 Euro's compared to about 1300 Euro's in a 55 mpg diesel that's if you can at all get 55 mpg per tank.

In fine warm weather you could get 140 kms max at about 80 Kph.

thanks for all the info, I have thought about pros and cons, looked at the EBS map of chargers, and my considerations are as follows:

- I don't picture myself charging my car for 2 hours around town (let alone 4), unless I can leave it there without paying for parking, while I visit whatever place I came for
- my daily mileage is not very high, currently 25km per day, longer at weekends: this should help towards a choice of an EV
- 60 miles range is rather poor, they really need to get better at this before EV are a standard
- home charging the vehicle is still a good option, although my meter is an old one and I don't have a night rate (I think I'm paying 13c per KW/h all day)
- fast chargers are great, but I am based in Tallaght and there are none there, so it's a hit or miss for me, depending on where I am driving to

A couple more questions please:
1) what are the benefits of a heat pump?
2) is the driving range of a new Leaf any better than that used model I mentioned? i.e. is the heat pump the only difference?
3) when you leave your car in town for charging, do you have to pay for pay and display parking?

thanks!

robnet77

Dexter1979 wrote: »

There are a few ex-demo Renault Zoe's out there starting at around 15k. Even the entry model (Expression) has Sat Nav, Cruise Control and remote pre-heating via the key. A PCP on one of them could work out very reasonable. The PCP price could include the battery lease. The charger is the best of any EV in Ireland.

thanks!
however, I have some reservations on the Zoe, based on some reviews I have been reading:

From Autoexpress: "Our experts predict the ZOE will retain 36.5 per cent of its value after three years"

From Autocar: "Zoe’s average range (is) 80 miles"
and
"Above 50mph, the Zoe begins to feel a bit underpowered. On the motorway it’s decidedly exposed – vulnerable, even"

NIMAN

robnet77 wrote: »

thanks!
however, I have some reservations on the Zoe, based on some reviews I have been reading:

From Autoexpress: "Our experts predict the ZOE will retain 36.5 per cent of its value after three years"

From Autocar: "Zoe’s average range (is) 80 miles"
and
"Above 50mph, the Zoe begins to feel a bit underpowered. On the motorway it’s decidedly exposed – vulnerable, even"

Sorry but your reply reminds me of the time Alan Partridge phoned his ex-wife and proceeded to slag off her boyfriends Renault Megane!!:D

Is he still driving that Renault Megane? Yeah, can I just read you something from Top Gear magazine? No, it’s alright, I've got it here, I've got it here. “With a mere 90 brake-horse-power available, progress is too leisurely to be called fast, but on the motorway in 5th gear the Megane's slow pace really becomes a pain. Uphill runs become power-sappingly mundane, while overtaking National Express coaches can become a long, drawn-out affair.” Not my words, Carol. The words of Top Gear magazine.

robnet77

NIMAN wrote: »

Sorry but your reply reminds me of the time Alan Partridge phoned his ex-wife and proceeded to slag off her boyfriends Renault Megane!!:D

Is he still driving that Renault Megane? Yeah, can I just read you something from Top Gear magazine? No, it’s alright, I've got it here, I've got it here. “With a mere 90 brake-horse-power available, progress is too leisurely to be called fast, but on the motorway in 5th gear the Megane's slow pace really becomes a pain. Uphill runs become power-sappingly mundane, while overtaking National Express coaches can become a long, drawn-out affair.” Not my words, Carol. The words of Top Gear magazine.

that's a very funny, OT story :pac:

NIMAN

its a lot funnier in context, believe me, but I couldn't find it on YouTube.

robnet77

robnet77 wrote: »

thanks for all the info, I have thought about pros and cons, looked at the EBS map of chargers, and my considerations are as follows:

- I don't picture myself charging my car for 2 hours around town (let alone 4), unless I can leave it there without paying for parking, while I visit whatever place I came for
- my daily mileage is not very high, currently 25km per day, longer at weekends: this should help towards a choice of an EV
- 60 miles range is rather poor, they really need to get better at this before EV are a standard
- home charging the vehicle is still a good option, although my meter is an old one and I don't have a night rate (I think I'm paying 13c per KW/h all day)
- fast chargers are great, but I am based in Tallaght and there are none there, so it's a hit or miss for me, depending on where I am driving to

A couple more questions please:
1) what are the benefits of a heat pump?
2) is the driving range of a new Leaf any better than that used model I mentioned? i.e. is the heat pump the only difference?
3) when you leave your car in town for charging, do you have to pay for pay and display parking?

thanks!

My quotes are with the heat pump, you'd get 70-75 winter miles but you'd have to be plugged in, 60 miles you'd want to be close. That's based on last years winter mileage. The heat pump does make a difference.

I've done 144 Kms so far today charged up 25 mins and speeds 120-140 Kms. (edit , I meant 100-140 Kms) Still 25% left in the battery.

I should also add that for me for now, while on shift I see no peak traffic , all the N7 ,M7 traffic will mean a noticeable increase in range.

The 2016 Leaf would mean no charging for me but I'm happy to know that by the time my lease is up there'll be more electric cars and 150-200 miles range.

If you were buying new today and you really do want the 90-100 miles range then the 2016 30 Kwh would be the one to get.

If I'm travelling a longer distance and arrive into some town somewhere chances are I'll have to pay to park so I see no difference here, the benefit of the 6.6 Kw charging is that I'll most likely come back to a charged or mostly charged car and not have to find a fast charger and wait to charge, I really can't stress the advantage of this. Some places allow you park for free while charging. If I can get back to the car when It's finished charging I will and free up the space.

robnet77

Deleted User wrote: »

My quotes are with the heat pump, you'd get 70-75 winter miles but you'd have to be plugged in, 60 miles you'd want to be close. That's based on last years winter mileage. The heat pump does make a difference.

I've done 144 Kms so far today charged up 25 mins and speeds 120-140 Kms. Still 25% left in the battery.
...
The 2016 Leaf would mean no charging for me but I'm happy to know that by the time my lease is up there'll be more electric cars and 150-200 miles range.

If you were buying new today and you really do want the 90-100 miles range then the 2016 30 Kwh would be the one to get...

thanks again!
I'm still not sold on EV, will continue to dig info...

I am all in favor of the EV concept though, consider that back in 2009 I bought an electric scooter, which due to limited range of 55 km and lack of stability, became quickly unused until I eventually scrapped it, as battery would not turn on anymore after so long (18kg of weight to be extracted, brought home, charged for 6-8 hours, then put back into the scooter).

robnet77

robnet77 wrote: »

thanks again!
I'm still not sold on EV, will continue to dig info...

I am all in favor of the EV concept though, consider that back in 2009 I bought an electric scooter, which due to limited range of 55 km and lack of stability, became quickly unused until I eventually scrapped it, as battery would not turn on anymore after so long (18kg of weight to be extracted, brought home, charged for 6-8 hours, then put back into the scooter).

Typically these scooters (the cheaper ones or the ones bought in China sold for large profits here) have lead acid batteries and these are completely unsuitable for mobility use. Even wheel chairs shouldn't have them !

Lead acid batteries are good for starting engines, that's about it.

You have to do your research before buying anything expensive.

I wouldn't have been happy with an ICE car again, leasing a new car works for me for now and I am happy with my choice so far, I wouldn't be leasing a new diesel car and paying for diesel because my mileage is too high and I don't like diesels.

robnet77

if I didn't want to use public electric chargers, how would the routine of charging an EV vehicle at home work usually? I drive between 20 and 80 km a day.

- Do I charge every day, or only when battery level is between certain ranges?

- Do I charge till full, or not necessary, if I don't need to drive a long distance for that day?

- Do I get a free (7pin?) charger installed at home with any new EV/hybrid car? I think I read the government would give one for free to the first 2.000 purchasers.


Thanks

robnet77

robnet77 wrote: »

if I didn't want to use public electric chargers, how would the routine of charging an EV vehicle at home work usually? I drive between 20 and 80 km a day.

- Do I charge every day, or only when battery level is between certain ranges?

- Do I charge till full, or not necessary, if I don't need to drive a long distance for that day?

- Do I get a free (7pin?) charger installed at home with any new EV/hybrid car? I think I read the government would give one for free to the first 2.000 purchasers.


Thanks

If you don't want to use public charge points then you shouldn't have to over 20-80 Kms. After 100 Kms in winter you should be near a charge point @ 100 Kph.

The 30 Kwh Leaf should be available in Ireland early 2016, possibly for January, I'm waiting for confirmation of this.

The 30 kwh battery will have a real life range between 140-180 Kms @ 100 Kph More at slower speeds. Winter/Summer

The Current gen with 24 Kwh battery has a real life range of 110-140 Kms. Winter/Summer

Ideally to maximise the long term life of the battery charge to 80% using the long life mode option in the menu or the 80% option in the charge timer menu. Don't leave it at 100% for more than a few hours max, while this won't damage the battery it helps degrade it among various other things such as aggressive driving . braking, heat, time spent at a high and low charge and normal usage (charging/discharging) and time itself.

You should charge up when it gets to about 20% minimum, ideal range would be 40-70%. if possible. When you don't need the range, when you do just use it. Ideally you don't allow it into low battery warning or especially very low battery warning frequently.

The 141+ leaf battery is proving to be a lot more robust but until further data comes in follow the above and it should last a long time.

Once battery range improves considerable you won't need to worry about it because the battery will be cycled a lot less a so it will be a lot less stressed than a smaller battery.

The ESb will install a free 3.5 kw charge point and will work fine with the 6.6 Kw charger if you need to use the non fast charge points the 6.6 kw charger is quiet convenient while out and about or if you take a longer trip.

robnet77

Deleted User wrote: »

If you're going with a new car and considering a Prius, it's pretty pricey new and a 30 kwh leaf would be still a bit cheaper with a real 100 miles range and more if you drive handy enough. The newer battery should be able to order soon in Ireland for 2016. The Leaf would obviously be far cheaper to run than any hybrid and in my opinion far better to drive, far better to drive than any ice to be honest.

The prius is however one of the most reliable cars ever built and well proven and one car I would not hesitate to recommend even with high mileage.

I had a MK II 2007 prius and it was definitely a good car and 4.8L per 100 kms easy enough to achieve but driving the leaf there is no comparison and a fraction of the running costs.

can I ask about the Prius consumption please? ...my understanding is that it either runs on electricity or petrol, so I would assume the 4.8L/100km is related to driving on petrol, right? unless it uses both engines at the same time...

If I drove it on electricity only, consumption would then be similar to the Leaf? And what would the range be for the two types of "fuel"?
Thanks.

robnet77

robnet77 wrote: »

can I ask about the Prius consumption please? ...my understanding is that it either runs on electricity or petrol, so I would assume the 4.8L/100km is related to driving on petrol, right? unless it uses both engines at the same time...

If I drove it on electricity only, consumption would then be similar to the Leaf? And what would the range be for the two types of "fuel"?
Thanks.

The Prius runs mainly on the engine, and you can't plug it in, the battery is about 1 Kwh capacity compared to the 24 kwh of the Leaf, the Prius uses about 400 watt hrs compared to 22 Kwh max in the Leaf.

The regenerative energy when braking charges the battery + the engine charges it when driving.

If you check out my Prius threads you'll see tips about how to maximise fuel economy using pulse and glide etc.

In Summer I average 4.6 L/100 kms per tank winter 4.8 L/100 Km. This was in the MK II 2007 Prius.

What you loose on the motorway you gain back in town.

cros13

The prius is entirely powered by petrol with a small amount of energy recovered from braking.
The electric motor is weak and unable to reach motorway speeds.
There is a plug-in version but it costs €10k more, has only 15km of range and isn't sold in Ireland.

There's no comparison between a Prius and a full-blood EV. Performance and comfort are drastically better and running costs are 8 to 10 times lower for a real EV.

The Electric motor in the prius isn't weak it's 50-60 hP and assists the engine when needed. It gives the engine a much needed torque boost. The real limitation is the tiny NiMh battery.

But I agree there is no comparison to an EV. The Prius is still better than a diesel !

robnet77

funny thing, I just received a mail with a new post from mad_lad (about the Prius's engine torque boost etc.) but it's not showing in my browser when I open this thread (tried from my laptop and from my phone).

Yep Boards.ie are having issues again.

Sometimes you need to refresh about 5 times or more.

robnet77

...does anyone know roughly how the Renault Zoe compares to the Leaf, in relation to:

- driving range
- time to charge at home
- time to charge on the road
- batteries to be rented/purchased
- number of people allowed on board
- PCP interest rate
- PCP future guaranteed value (in %)

Thanks!

robnet77

robnet77 wrote: »

...does anyone know roughly how the Renault Zoe compares to the Leaf, in relation to:

- driving range
- time to charge at home
- time to charge on the road
- batteries to be rented/purchased
- number of people allowed on board
- PCP interest rate
- PCP future guaranteed value (in %)

Thanks!

The 30 Kwh Leaf in 2016 will beat it by about 30-45 Kms

The current 24 Kwh Leaf V Zoe , there isn't much difference.

Time to charge, the Zoe can charge at 22 Kw in 1hr 30 mins 0-100% or 1hr 0-80 %

The Leaf charges in 2 hrs 25%-90% in about 2 hrs 25-80% in probably 1 hr 30 mins with the optional 6.6 Kw charger , remember, you won't really be arriving to many charge points with less than 20-25%.

Both cars can charge from the fast chargers from about 18-20% in about 30 mins to 80% more in cold weather. But 20-70% is decently quick. The higher the charge the more the current throttles back from the charger.

Both cars will carry 5 in theory the Zoe being slightly smaller.

Leaf comes with the battery, no rental.

Zoe varies in cost depending on the miles driven, Dexter is the man to tell you this and about leasing.

robnet77

is the below claim (in bold) correct, in relation to the "new" Leaf? Also, is it referring to the model currently on sale, as the other features seem to be those of the current model?

http://www.windsor.ie/nissan/new-cars/leaf?gclid=COy41takq8gCFYGQHwod4FgBhw


"There are more than 100 changes to be found on the New Nissan LEAF.
Among the changes are:

» The range has increased from 175km to 199km thanks to a series of engineering improvements.
» Faster 6.6kw charging option cutting charging time in half
» Subtle styling changes to the grille for better aerodynamic efficiency
» Fully integrated motor and charger frees up extra luggage space
» Weight reduction averaging 32kgs

cros13

Those are the changes for the 2014 Leaf. The Irish sites have not yet been updated with info on the 2016 30kWh Leaf.

You can find more info direct from Nissan Europe here:

http://www.newsroom.nissan-europe.com/EU/en-gb/Media/Media.aspx?mediaid=137066

First units for Irish customers roll off the line in December for delivery in early January.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Time to charge, the Zoe can charge at 22 Kw in 1hr 30 mins 0-100% or 1hr 0-80 %

The Leaf charges (current gen with 24 kwh battery) in 2 hrs 25%-90% 24 kwh battery in about 2 hrs 25-80% in probably 1 hr 30 mins with the optional 6.6 Kw charger , remember, you won't really be arriving to many charge points with less than 20-25%.

Both cars can charge from the fast chargers from about 18-20% in about 30 mins to 80% more in cold weather. But 20-70% is decently quick. The higher the charge the more the current throttles back from the charger.

robnet77 wrote: »

is the below claim (in bold) correct, in relation to the "new" Leaf? Also, is it referring to the model currently on sale, as the other features seem to be those of the current model?

http://www.windsor.ie/nissan/new-cars/leaf?gclid=COy41takq8gCFYGQHwod4FgBhw


"There are more than 100 changes to be found on the New Nissan LEAF.
Among the changes are:

» The range has increased from 175km to 199km thanks to a series of engineering improvements.

In relation to charging in my above statement I should have said that this is from standard street charge points. But the same would apply to the Leaf with the 32 amp home charge point (6.6 Kw) it will still charge at home 20-90% in about 2 hours but ideally you charge the car when you need it and not have it sit above 40-50% for more than a few hours.d

Regarding home charging for Zoe , this is limited by your home supply, Zoe can charge at 44 kw AC should you find a suitable charge point at an affordable cost and 3 phase supply to your house then you could charge at 44 Kw in 30 odd mins from low battery warning to 80%.

Regarding the 200 Km claim, It would be possible in Summer at about 60-80 Kph but at 100-110 Kph I would say 140-160 miles is possible as has been tested in the Kia Soul, but by this you would need to be close to the charge point if not plugged in. (with the 30 Kwh battery)

The idea is that you plug in and top up at any opportunity you can rather than run the battery low all the time, if you have a 140-160 Km range Leaf then 30 mins charging could easily get you 260-280 kms, charging the larger 30 kwh battery takes the same time as the 24 Kwh from the fast chargers to 80%.

cros13

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· The 30kW battery will be available as an option on SV and SVE only. The option cost is €3,000.

· The 30kW battery will carry an 8 year, 160,000km warranty. The 5 year warranty remains for the rest of the EV components.

· Production of the new battery starts in December and availability from then on looks good.

· The 30kWh battery will not be available for the eNV200 until mid- Summer 2016 at least.

robnet77

cros13 wrote: »

· The 30kW battery will be available as an option on SV and SVE only. The option cost is €3,000.

· The 30kW battery will carry an 8 year, 160,000km warranty. The 5 year warranty remains for the rest of the EV components.

· Production of the new battery starts in December and availability from then on looks good.

· The 30kWh battery will not be available for the eNV200 until mid- Summer 2016 at least.

If I move to EV, I think I'll stick to the 24kW battery

robnet77

robnet77 wrote: »

If I move to EV, I think I'll stick to the 24kW battery

The extra range would be handy but for now while I'm still in this Job I got work charging and don't really need it.

However if I leave this job the extra range would be handy and because my commute is 85 miles per shift I don't get the opportunity to drive much for pleasure in the leaf to keep the mileage down for the lease so having a 150-200+ mile range battery would be little use to me. We take the Diesel for the really long trips the couple of times a year.

I'd rather spend more money when the Gen II electrics come in 3 years when my lease is up in Jan 2018. At that point I might actually keep the car and drive it as much as I want. Or I may lease again who knows. I would really love to work a lot closer to home.

I would like a bigger car though, the extra boot space in the Kia Cee'd SW is handy.

cros13

robnet77 wrote: »

If I move to EV, I think I'll stick to the 24kW battery

That only applies to the eNV200 van not the Leaf. The 30kWh Leaf will see first deliveries in late December/early January.

BoatMad

you know well all just end up buying model 3's in a few years

Model 3 would be nice but after taxes and import duties it could make it beyond sensible with my mileage it would be mad.

cros13

BoatMad wrote: »

you know well all just end up buying model 3's in a few years

I'm going to have a deposit down so quick heads will spin.

robnet77

can someone confirm the below claims in bold, from an Irish dealer, please?

Top 10 Benifits Of Driving A New 152 Electric Car:
1.Lowest road tax bracket of only €120 per year
2.Lower servicing costs
3.Save an average of €1400 per year on fuel costs each year
4.Favourable insurance premiums available
5.Free parking in Q parks, free tolls and free charging currently
6.Avail of the excellent SEAI grant
7.Quick charge of up to 80% in 30 minutes
8.Get a 3 year warranty, 3 years roadside assistance and 5 year battery warranty
9.Fuel costs from only 1 cent per kilometre
10.A range of up to 140km can be expected

DrPhilG

robnet77 wrote: »

can someone confirm the below claims in bold, from an Irish dealer, please?

Top 10 Benifits Of Driving A New 152 Electric Car:
1.Lowest road tax bracket of only €120 per year
2.Lower servicing costs
3.Save an average of €1400 per year on fuel costs each year
4.Favourable insurance premiums available
5.Free parking in Q parks, free tolls and free charging currently
6.Avail of the excellent SEAI grant
7.Quick charge of up to 80% in 30 minutes
8.Get a 3 year warranty, 3 years roadside assistance and 5 year battery warranty
9.Fuel costs from only 1 cent per kilometre
10.A range of up to 140km can be expected

My insurance did reduce. I changed from a 2012 Peugeot 308 to a 2014 Leaf and my premium dropped from €570 to €500 fully comp.

Can't comment on the tolls.

Roen

Is there some scheme in Cork that gives free tolls to EVs? I think that the rest of the country isn't toll free though.

stesaurus

Yeah the parking and tolls is a drive4zero initiative and is Cork only. Insurance may drop as the engine capacity is listed as zero on their systems so there's no loading. This might get offset by having a higher value car. My insurance balanced out so no decrease for me.
Everything else rings true except for maybe the 1c/km, that must be using night rate and an element of public charging but would be achievable.

@ my average of 17.2 Kwh/100 Km costs on night rate over 20,000 Kms @ 8 Cent per Kwh would have worked out at around 300 Euro's, Including charging inefficiencies however I can't accurately count this because I have to charge at peak rate when working nights. But a lot of the electricity has come from free public charging and now I have free work charging.

Electricity prices are to fall soon too.

Dexter1979

The Irish EV Owners Association is trying to get a group scheme going with an insurance provider. This would be cheaper insurance but the deal is not yet finalised.

Dexter1979

Dexter1979 wrote: »

The Irish EV Owners Association is trying to get a group scheme going with an insurance provider. This would be cheaper insurance but the deal is not yet finalised.

Maybe next year, I just renewed my policy with Allianz.

sgalvin

robnet77 wrote: »

can someone confirm the below claims in bold, from an Irish dealer, please?

Top 10 Benifits Of Driving A New 152 Electric Car:
1.Lowest road tax bracket of only €120 per year
2.Lower servicing costs
3.Save an average of €1400 per year on fuel costs each year
4.Favourable insurance premiums available
5.Free parking in Q parks, free tolls and free charging currently
6.Avail of the excellent SEAI grant
7.Quick charge of up to 80% in 30 minutes
8.Get a 3 year warranty, 3 years roadside assistance and 5 year battery warranty
9.Fuel costs from only 1 cent per kilometre
10.A range of up to 140km can be expected

Ref insurance.
Just too out a new policy on 2012 fluence

I found only a few quid between them all Axa, aviva, Fbd and my current broker all were about €80 less than my 2003 mazda 1.8.
Bank if Ireland offered €360/year no charge for paying monthly. Nearly everyone offers breakdown and don't discount if you say you don't want/need.

There is good range of incentives in Cork. Free tolls on m8 fermoy but more useful is 4h free parking/charging in Cork City centre that's with €10 a time!

I agree with the ~16 kWh/100km. I pay 16c kWh day rate so is €2.5 / 100km.
I was spending about €12.50 / 100km so is a fifth of the running costs or 10c/km saved.
1c/km is possible on night rate and 25% public /free charging.

Servicing will be lower but depends on what you are changing from some modern cars have 30,000km 2 year intervals.

sgalvin

sgalvin wrote: »

I agree with the ~16 kWh/100km. I pay 16c kWh day rate so is €2.5 / 100km.
I was spending about €12.50 / 100km so is a fifth of the running costs or 10c/km saved.
1c/km is possible on night rate and 25% public /free charging.

Most of you charging will probably be done at night on the night rate, I pay about 8c/Kwh.

Work charging is free !

Most it will cost me to drive to work a week is about 7-12 Euro's per 4 shifts. I have to charge at peak rate when working nights. So it's harder to calculate. I can do it with leaf spy, it will tell me how many Kwh I have used when I get home and how much I've put back in then add 15% for the charger consumption itself.

Beat that Diesel !

robnet77

I recently went to a Nissan dealer and was offered this deal, which is not very exciting for me:

Leaf XE (basic model) + 6WK charger + metallic paint = 29k
My old car (valued at 2.8K online but I recently spent on it 1k - on tyres, suspensions, battery etc.) qualifies for the scrappage deal and is valued at 4k.

Price to finance: 29k-4k-5k (government grant) = 20K
Deposit: 4k (covered fully by my old car)
plus 36 installments of 420€/month (!), at the end of the 3 years standard PCP rules will apply.

I thought the scrappage deal would mean up to 4k on top of your car value, not that my car (which I would probably be able to sell privately for 3-4k) would be valued 4k overall...

What if I buy a very cheap car (say 300€) and offer that one for scrappage?
Anyone knows how this "scrappage deal" works?

DrPhilG

robnet77 wrote: »

What if I buy a very cheap car (say 300€) and offer that one for scrappage?
Anyone knows how this "scrappage deal" works?

I believe you need to have owned the crap car for a certain length of time and it needs to have been in use (taxed/insured etc).

The same thought crossed my mind!

jprboy

DrPhilG wrote: »

I believe you need to have owned the crap car for a certain length of time and it needs to have been in use (taxed/insured etc).

The same thought crossed my mind!

:pac::D

But, yes, the criteria:

Qualifying trade-in vehicles must be registered in the Republic of Ireland for at least 6 months previous to the date of trade-in and have a valid NCT and Road Tax certificate, or one that has expired no more than 6 months prior to date of trade-in. Must be insured for use on the road for at least three months in the 18 months prior to trade-in

So, technically, you could buy one to which all of the above criteria apply
and head straight to a dealer when you receive the reg cert for the proposed trade-in in your name.

BoatMad

Deleted User wrote: »

Most of you charging will probably be done at night on the night rate, I pay about 8c/Kwh.

Work charging is free !

Most it will cost me to drive to work a week is about 7-12 Euro's per 4 shifts. I have to charge at peak rate when working nights. So it's harder to calculate. I can do it with leaf spy, it will tell me how many Kwh I have used when I get home and how much I've put back in then add 15% for the charger consumption itself.

Beat that Diesel !

Simply doing fuel to fuel comparisons is nonsense. You have to do total cost of ownership, taking in the cheapest comparable diesel car.

BoatMad

robnet77 wrote: »

I recently went to a Nissan dealer and was offered this deal, which is not very exciting for me:

Leaf XE (basic model) + 6WK charger + metallic paint = 29k
My old car (valued at 2.8K online but I recently spent on it 1k - on tyres, suspensions, battery etc.) qualifies for the scrappage deal and is valued at 4k.

Price to finance: 29k-4k-5k (government grant) = 20K
Deposit: 4k (covered fully by my old car)
plus 36 installments of 420€/month (!), at the end of the 3 years standard PCP rules will apply.

I thought the scrappage deal would mean up to 4k on top of your car value, not that my car (which I would probably be able to sell privately for 3-4k) would be valued 4k overall...

What if I buy a very cheap car (say 300€) and offer that one for scrappage?
Anyone knows how this "scrappage deal" works?

Is still a straight finance deal as opposed to a PCP, what's the GMFV if it's a PCP ?