And they wonder why it's difficult to recruit young members.....

Jawgap

Let me start by admitting 2 things. First, this is a rant. Second I was 100% in the wrong......

This morning was an open comp at my club. I'd arranged a 3 ball comprising of myself, my Dad and my eldest son. Part of my agenda was to get my son playing more golf - he's a handy enough player, but his (and his brothers' preferences lie with the oval ball).

So Dad arrives down early, we have a nice brekkie and the three of us set off for the short drive to the club.

On arriving, I start my usual pre-round routine with a few chips in the practice area from different sides of the chipping green. Preparing for a final bunch of chip shots I throw the balls on the ground and they scatter, as they do.

As I chip I become aware someone has walked over and is standing by the green. I assumed he was just letting me finish before having a practice himself.

As soon as pinged the last ball he asks....

"are you playing in the competition?"

"Yes," says I

"No you're not" says he, "That last ball you hit was on the course. You are disqualified for practising on the course."

Cue, look of incredulity from me as he demonstrates where the boundary of the course is in respect of the practice area and he was right.

As he was walking away I asked him I why, if he saw me setting up to hit a shot from the course he didn't say something. His response was that it wasn't his responsibility. Again completely right - it's up to me to know and apply the rules, but I'd query the mindset that seemed to take some pleasure (given the grin on his face as he let me know of my d/q) in basically letting a fellow player walk himself into trouble.

Anyway, my playing partners took some humour from it. My Dad assured me it would never happen at his club and my son pointed out that something like it would never happen in rugby! And he's probably right.

Anyway, lesson learned. It took the shine off what was shaping up to be a good morning and as it was we decided not to play (we paid our comp fee and submitted NRs) and went and had a good game of pitch 'n' putt.

Problem now is I'm home early so no excuse not to do the garden now

Boskowski

Thats pretty shoddy alright and even though you're 'admitting' you're in the wrong, and I guess technically you were, this is bordering the ridiculous. And that's putting it mildly, what kind of dickish carry on is that?

blue note

A simple mistake, not what the rule is there for. The guy who informed you is playing the 20th hole we sometimes get to. 19th being the bar and 20th is playing the a$$hole after we've had too many. It's rare for most of us to get there,but that poor guy seems to start his round there.

Jawgap

I understand the rule, and I think it's important to have it and if I'd been off knocking drives down the 18th or using a greenside bunker for practice, that'd be grounds for more than dq'ing.

My main issue was with the attitude / mindset of this individual who would stand there and let someone fall foul of the rules while salivating at the prospect of telling them about their impending transgression. He's also on the club council and talking to another member afterwards he's known for it (he described him as 'that officious b@stard, again').

Thing is I spent all week looking forward to this game and was delighted I'd 'emotionally blackmailed' my son into playing with his old man and grandad! He's 18 this year and I've been trying to convince him to keep up his golf membership when he moves beyond the juniors, this morning was just a vindication for him of the unfair stuffy nature that golf is sometimes tagged with.

I'll now have to work extra hard to work on him and his 2 younger brothers to convince them it's worth keeping up their memberships and playing regularly.

Btw, to top it all I lost the money in the pitch 'n' putt!

Rikand

Boskowski wrote: »

dick

Yep. That pretty much covers it

ForeRight

I've nothing but pity for that sad sad man and the smugness that makes him think he's great. Probably goes around the club with his chest out all day yet I'd nearly bet he is hated for being a grade A arsehole!!!!!!

Dial Hard

ForeRight wrote:

I bet his kids hate him and I'd nearly put my mortgage on it that his wife is having affairs on him.

That's quite the reach...

There's one in every club, OP, and they're usually universally hated. Unfortunately, they also almost always gravitate towards committees and boards.

Jawgap

ForeRight wrote: »

I've nothing but pity for that sad sad man and the smugness that makes him think he's great. Probably goes around the club with his chest out all day yet I'd nearly bet he is hated for being a grade A arsehole!!!!!!

I bet his kids hate him and I'd nearly put my mortgage on it that his wife is having affairs on him.

The member who referred to him as 'officious' did also mention that he was the type to tell the story later with the emphasis on how he 'schooled' a new member.

After it happened, my Dad suggested we leave it as we were going to be playing behind yer man's group and he could see I was emotionally not disposed to play!

rrpc

You should write to the club outlining what happened and how it affected you exactly as described here.

It may not have any effect but people are inclined to think that this kind of thing is harmless. However if it gives a club a bad name then they should know about it.

Jawgap

rrpc wrote: »

You should write to the club outlining what happened and how it affected you exactly as described here.

It may not have any effect but people are inclined to think that this kind of thing is harmless. However if it gives a club a bad name then they should know about it.

It's my own home club and I thought about complaining formally, but about what?

Strictly speaking he was right and I'm not sure the fact that they allowed a small minded tw@t to join however many years ago is really grounds for complaint?

At the moment, I think I'll just confine myself to explaining how my kids' views of golf were reinforced and why, consequently, they are not too interested in playing junior golf to the Junior Convenor next time he asks about my lads.

The second thing I'm planning is to pray, light candles, dance around fires and sacrifice animals to the gods (old and new) that I draw the guy in one of the comps next year - If that happens I'll be training like Rocky in 1, 2, 3 and 4

slave1

Fair dues for you seeing the rule and the 'wrong' but I believe there is a spirit behind the rule and strictly speaking although you have broken a rule I would be of the opinion not the spirit of the rule.
You (by your post) obviously did not spot the digression and you had no intention of taking advantage taking so the 'dick' should have kept to himself and isn't he a sad individual that can have this effect on others.

Common sense needs to be put in play, e.g. in our society outing yesterday a lad went through the back of the green on a par 3, yellow stakes and he was unsure whether he could drop greenside (point of entry) or had to drop the far side, rather than get caught up in it he played two balls so we could move on as a 4ball was starting to catch us, he finished ball #1 and ball #2 was in his pocket so when he pocketed ball #1 he was unsure which was ball #1 or #2 and stood there, again there are rules but this was a society outing and the lad was already flapping not knowing the rule and having played two balls so we said play either ball and let's move on.
Putting rules aside, it's more important to keep the game moving and take some common sense, had it been a club competition then yes more thought would have been taken but it was a small society outing where we all know each other and at no point was the lad trying to take advantage, common sense.

That 'dick' needs some common sense.

dixiefly

Jawgap wrote: »

It's my own home club and I thought about complaining formally, but about what?

Strictly speaking he was right and I'm not sure the fact that they allowed a small minded tw@t to join however many years ago is really grounds for complaint?

At the moment, I think I'll just confine myself to explaining how my kids' views of golf were reinforced and why, consequently, they are not too interested in playing junior golf to the Junior Convenor next time he asks about my lads.

The second thing I'm planning is to pray, light candles, dance around fires and sacrifice animals to the gods (old and new) that I draw the guy in one of the comps next year - If that happens I'll be training like Rocky in 1, 2, 3 and 4

Absolutely, that is appaling behaviour and this type of arrogance is a problem for the game. The rules are so strict in some areas of golf such as this and then so lax in other areas such as the facility for some players to mind their handicaps.

Golf has a problem attracting and holding unto members and this stuff does not do it any favours.

Do you know who the guy was? Had you dealt with him before so that he may have had a grudge against you? Was he involved in the event in an official capacity or just another competitor? I think that i would have gone into the pro shop and at least argued the toss with other players and played the round even if you didnt hand in a score in the end yourself. After all you paid the fee (which I cannot understand why)

Either way you should have a word with the captain or the professional there. Your location peaked my interest. Is it a well established links in the Laytown Bettystown area?

dixiefly

Also, looking at time of the posting what sort of time did this all happen at?

It must have been at the crack of dawn, I know anytime I am playing early everyone is muzzy - even less likely for someone to act the smarta$$.

Jawgap

slave1 wrote: »

Fair dues for you seeing the rule and the 'wrong' but I believe there is a spirit behind the rule and strictly speaking although you have broken a rule I would be of the opinion not the spirit of the rule.
You (by your post) obviously did not spot the digression and you had no intention of taking advantage taking so the 'dick' should have kept to himself and isn't he a sad individual that can have this effect on others.

Common sense needs to be put in play, ........

I'd agree 100%.

It set me thinking afterwards. I referee rugby (and previously refereed soccer) and a lot of time at referee training, updates and meetings is spent discussing 'materiality' and 'contextual judgement' which, to be honest, is just jargon for common sense. Simply put, an offence is not material if it does not impact the game - or it only becomes material when it impacts the game.

I'd suggest it's the principle of materiality should be imported into golf and the interpretation of certain rules - if it did exist I'd have happily played today, submitted my card and taken my case to the committee - although I suspect the more officious players who revel in the triviality of the rules would be undone by the adoption of such a principle and so the issue would not have crystallised.

Saying that, some might say I gained an advantage by hitting a practice chip from outside the practice area, and therefore benefited from being able to hit a longer shot (by about 1.5m) than otherwise would have been the case if I'd confined myself to the practice area.

My response would be 'do you really think a single long chip is going to have that much of an impact on a mid-handicapper's game on a Sunday morning?"

Jawgap

dixiefly wrote: »

Absolutely, that is appaling behaviour and this type of arrogance is a problem for the game. The rules are so strict in some areas of golf such as this and then so lax in other areas such as the facility for some players to mind their handicaps.

Golf has a problem attracting and holding unto members and this stuff does not do it any favours.

Do you know who the guy was? Had you dealt with him before so that he may have had a grudge against you? Was he involved in the event in an official capacity or just another competitor? I think that i would have gone into the pro shop and at least argued the toss with other players and played the round even if you didnt hand in a score in the end yourself. After all you paid the fee (which I cannot understand why)

Either way you should have a word with the captain or the professional there. Your location peaked my interest. Is it a well established links in the Laytown Bettystown area?

Well I know who he is now. Past captain, currently on the club's council and I never had cause to know him before. I don't know? I had a good run in one of the club comps earlier in the year, maybe I beat his mate

We were second group out and he was in the first group.

My Dad suggested we pay the fee (after all we booked, and maybe displaced other people who wanted to play) and go for some pitch 'n' putt as he could see I was agitated by the whole experience.

I didn't really see any point in pushing it - I was on the course, I did hit a practice shot, and the rule is quiet clear.

dixiefly wrote: »

Also, looking at time of the posting what sort of time did this all happen at?

It must have been at the crack of dawn, I know anytime I am playing early everyone is muzzy - even less likely for someone to act the smarta$$.

Pretty much - my Dad likes to play early and get to the course early.

The real achievement of the day was getting a teenager out of bed!

I doubt I'd be allowed name the club, but it wasn't in Meath.

Senecio

I'm interested to know what markings your course has to define the boundary of the course and the practise area? Most courses just have the chipping/putting green off to one side but there is nothing to define where the course takes over.

Jawgap

Senecio wrote: »

I'm interested to know what markings your course has to define the boundary of the course and the practise area? Most courses just have the chipping/putting green off to one side but there is nothing to define where the course takes over.

There's a series of white stakes (which I'd never noticed before) - it's OOB for one of the holes - but to be honest it's waaaaaay off the beaten track from the hole in question.

The actual 'strip' of land I was on (where I played the offending practice shot from) could best be described as an access route to the lower reaches of the course rather than a fairway.

Montgolfier

Don't like that behaviour either but fyi I attached the rule.

Jawgap

Montgolfier wrote: »

Don't like that behaviour either but fyi I attached the rule.

Just to be clear, I've no problem with the rule and penalty.

It's more the mindset that would lead someone to watch someone about to breach it (in what I have to say was a relatively trivial way), not say anything, then apply the penalty - particularly in the context of having a young player with me who I'm trying to encourage to play more (although that fact would not have been known to person in question).

Senecio

Jawgap wrote: »

There's a series of white stakes (which I'd never noticed before) - it's OOB for one of the holes - but to be honest it's waaaaaay off the beaten track from the hole in question.

Interesting, our course has nothing to define the practise area. Our chipping green is about 30yds left of the first tee. If a ball found its way onto the chipping green from the first tee, would it be considered OOB? I guess it must as a practise area can't be part of the course. However if the ball came to rest next to the chipping green I can't see any markings or local rule that would stop you from playing it as it lies. Our course could probably do with better defining the course boundaries.

fullstop

Senecio wrote: »

Interesting, our course has nothing to define the practise area. Our chipping green is about 30yds left of the first tee. If a ball found its way onto the chipping green from the first tee, would it be considered OOB? I guess it must as a practise area can't be part of the course. However if the ball came to rest next to the chipping green I can't see any markings or local rule that would stop you from playing it as it lies. Our course could probably do with better defining the course boundaries.

I'd wager most courses are the same, putting/chipping green are on the way to the first tee with nothing to define it from the course. The lad in the OP sounds like a prick, don't think I'd have reacted as calmly as Jawgap. He clearly wasn't trying to test any surfaces or practice the course.

Dr_Colossus

Jawgap wrote: »

We were second group out and he was in the first group.

My Dad suggested we pay the fee (after all we booked, and maybe displaced other people who wanted to play) and go for some pitch 'n' putt as he could see I was agitated by the whole experience.

I didn't really see any point in pushing it - I was on the course, I did hit a practice shot, and the rule is quiet clear

Fair play for taking it so well (as daft as it is in this scenario) and showing great constraint in not calling that gob****e every name under the sun to his face. However it was crazy paying the entry fee, granted you'd booked the line but it's not like you were a no show due to indifference. I would have made a point of informing the pro that you now couldn't play the competition as the infamous committee member had disqualified you so you and your playing partners had no choice but to go elsewhere.
As said before, do write to you club stating what you're said here. If nothing else it will make others aware of the restrictions and the course boundaries and may ever prompt the committee to revise the course boundary markers so that the situation isn't easily repeated.

denishurley

Anyone who would watch someone break a rule like that and wait until after to inform them is a Grade-A c***, but karma will get them.

I'm a member of a society and, a few years ago, before I joined, there was an incident at Adare Manor GC (the 'old' Adare).

A new member, who wasn't playing golf long, moved his marker on a green and forgot to replace it before holing out. "Five for two," he said to the man marking his card, who replied, "No, seven for nothing," and reminded him about failing to put back the marker.

At the very next hole, the man who was doing the marking was first up and creamed his tee-shot. The man who had forgotten to replace his marker was next up and he teed up the ball and then remarked, "Great shot," before pointing in the opposite direction, "but the hole is that way."

WattyWoo

Everything said about this officious git is correct
Waiting for someone to play and dquing them is just all wrong.
Op I would like to refer you to Dec 7-1b/1 in the decisions book(can't embed too few posts).Easiest place to find it is on the USGA website or Randa.

That decision shows your actions if only one shot from on the course is not a dq issue but should have been modified by the Commitee to 2 strokes.

Know-alls don't always know all!
Write a letter of complaint re his attitude and actions!

cerastes

They aren't just in golf, and they do seem to gravitate to committees.

Howjoe1

Jawgap wrote: »

Well I know who he is now. Past captain, currently on the club's council and I never had cause to know him before. I don't know? I had a good run in one of the club comps earlier in the year, maybe I beat his mate

We were second group out and he was in the first group.

My Dad suggested we pay the fee (after all we booked, and maybe displaced other people who wanted to play) and go for some pitch 'n' putt as he could see I was agitated by the whole experience.

I didn't really see any point in pushing it - I was on the course, I did hit a practice shot, and the rule is quiet clear.



Pretty much - my Dad likes to play early and get to the course early.

The real achievement of the day was getting a teenager out of bed!

I doubt I'd be allowed name the club, but it wasn't in Meath.

Don't see any harm in naming the club.

Dublin Spur

what a monumental príck

horrible story

Ken.

If I was you and had the time I'd stand against him at the next committee elections.

Tobyglen

Shocking behaviour. Hard to imagine how someone could be so petty. You should have slapped him

Jawgap

WattyWoo wrote: »

Everything said about this officious git is correct
Waiting for someone to play and dquing them is just all wrong.
Op I would like to refer you to Dec 7-1b/1 in the decisions book(can't embed too few posts).Easiest place to find it is on the USGA website or Randa.

That decision shows your actions if only one shot from on the course is not a dq issue but should have been modified by the Commitee to 2 strokes.

Know-alls don't always know all!
Write a letter of complaint re his attitude and actions!

An interesting decision - if I'd known about it I think would've just played then submitted the card

As for writing, I'm not convinced as there's nothing to be achieved. It sounds like his reputation is well before him.

I've vented, I feel better for it and I'm happy to pray I get him in one of the knockout comps next year

kenco

Sorry what should have been a great multi generation round runined but console yourselves that you will never lead the sad life of that 'guy'

im not active in golf these days but in the 3 Clubs I was members off I have seen such characters and the ones worse still who think they know the rules butn dont at all (nearly as bad)

Ive always respected the odd warning before I did something I had no idea was a penalty. Lesson learned and I would act in the same manner myself. We all make mistakes. Did your one mean a 2 shot benefit? Hardly I would have thought. Fine if you were on your own but very poor form let alone ahead of a round with the Dad and Son...

Senna

WattyWoo wrote: »

Everything said about this officious git is correct
Waiting for someone to play and dquing them is just all wrong.
Op I would like to refer you to Dec 7-1b/1 in the decisions book(can't embed too few posts).Easiest place to find it is on the USGA website or Randa.

That decision shows your actions if only one shot from on the course is not a dq issue but should have been modified by the Commitee to 2 strokes.

Know-alls don't always know all!
Write a letter of complaint re his attitude and actions!

That rule is all I need to hear, I would make a point of seeing him again (ideally with all his buddies around) and inform him that it was not instant disqualification and he should learn the rules before dedicating them to others, or just mind his own business, and walk away.

JIdontknow

I certainly wouldn't have been as patient with that guy, I'd have played behind him and every shot followed by a fore just to annoy him. (Don't mean landing balls down on his group just mean shouting fore in general). I'd write in a letter, I wouldn't mention anything negative towards him but more just suggest they mark off the practice area due to a recent "misfortunate" event, which meant 4 of ye couldn't / didn't agree with playing competition. I wouldn't go into too much detail but I'm sure people / committee will follow up and be curious about the misfortunate event to which you can let them know without it being in writing ( who knows, if it's in writing then he may see it), keeping your dignity and sincerity intact. You may be sure that guy has a reputation that precedes him.

coylemj

Senna wrote: »

That rule is all I need to hear, I would make a point of seeing him again (ideally with all his buddies around) and inform him that it was not instant disqualification and he should learn the rules before dedicating them to others, or just mind his own business, and walk away.

Better still, write a formal letter of complaint to the club secretary. You paid to enter a competition and were bounced out by that assh0le. Better that the committee member are aware of his actions than you try to confront him face to face. It may very well be the case that the committee would be delighted to have some ammunition to rein him in because I'm sure he throws his weight around like that all the time, probably to the embarrassment of other members.

Complaining to him in person 'with all his buddies around' will get you nowhere, he's no doubt convinced that he knows the rulebook inside out and chances are that his buddies are of the same mind, otherwise why would they be hanging out with him? He has probably surrounded himself with sycophants whom he helped to become members.

rrpc

Here is decision 7-1b/1 for those who are interested:

PRACTICE BEFORE OR BETWEEN ROUNDS IN STROKE PLAY

7-1b/1

One Practice Stroke Played on Course Before Stroke-Play Round

Q. On the day of a stroke-play competition, a competitor, before starting his round, played one practice stroke from a forward tee at the first hole into an out-of-bounds area. What is the ruling?

A. The competitor infringed Rule 7-1b and was subject to disqualification. However, the Committee would be justified, in the circumstances, in modifying the penalty to two strokes under Rule 33-7. If the competitor played more than one such stroke, modification of the disqualification penalty would not be appropriate.

Jawgap

Yeah, I like the idea of writing with a suggestion to improve the marking around the practice area with a drop in about the dq - it's a bit more constructive than just complaining.

slave1

As a slight aside, did he have the authority to DQ the OP?

Lord Riverside

For some reason, golf in particular seems to attract a sizable number of people like this.

You are entitled to appeal any decision especially such a borderline one. I'd put in a simple appeal regarding the dq decision (not the actual technical rule breach), it should be very interesting, and will give you a good guide as to whether this club is worth staying with or not.

Jawgap

slave1 wrote: »

As a slight aside, did he have the authority to DQ the OP?

I didn't question his credentials, but I think strictly speaking I dq'ed myself.

He was right in that I was 'on the course' and I knew that meant disqualification. If I doubted that I was on the course I'd have played and told him to report me at which point I'd have taken my chance with the competition committee.

FixdePitchmark

I came across one of these dudes when I was 14/15.

It put me off joining a club for 20 years. 20 years, what a waste.

So - there is a valid point about the real impact these people can have on the game.

The rules are the rules - but I like a bit of creative ambiguity at times. I know some people are absolutely against that. But jesus, life is too short for some of the stuff people get wrapped up in. It is only golf.

Even if you want to tell someone they are wrong about something. There is a way of communicating it that doesn't make the other person feel like ****.

Golf clubs are still a bit funny to me - All the codes - written and unwritten.

I remember I was at an AGM and some dude was giving out about everything and everyone , a past captain could see my face screw up and said in my ear "Don't worry, he is the resident arsehole" - It was a great thing to say to me , sort of educating me that - it is not as bad as your man giving out.

But 1 person can sadly spoil a party.

The walls of a golf course create a little world - I was playing with a gent about 60 one day - play was shockingly slow , so moronically he started blaming the 1 ball in front. He then started hitting balls at him .. I ripped him apart. I know certain courses in Dublin that if he did that - the lads in front would actually floor him.

Anyway - I think you should have played the round anyway - but dq yourself. You should have enjoyed it all the more him having to look at you enjoying yourself.

Lord Riverside

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

.. I ripped him apart

You what ?

FixdePitchmark

Lord Riverside wrote: »

You what ?

As in verbally.

Was so dangerous.

Lord Riverside

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

As in verbally.

Was so dangerous.

Are you sure you didn't 'blow him away' as well ?

ForeRight

You work all week and look forward to your game on a Saturday morning and at 7am this is the bellend you meet... Sad sad man.

To be pitied.

Lord Riverside

ForeRight wrote: »

You work all week and look forward to your game on a Saturday morning and at 7am this is the bellend you meet... Sad sad man.

To be pitied.

True, it's a pity golf is so rarely about golf.

Dtoffee

Jawgap wrote: »

Preparing for a final bunch of chip shots I throw the balls on the ground and they scatter, as they do.

"No you're not" says he, "That last ball you hit was on the course. You are disqualified for practising on the course."

Anyway, my playing partners took some humour from it. My Dad assured me it would never happen at his club and my son pointed out that something like it would never happen in rugby! And he's probably right.

Sounds like this guy has a problem and a big chip on his shoulder... why else would he make such a call on a fellow member. Either way, I would have ignored him and simply claimed I was retieving my ball if he made an issue out of it .... how could he stop you from playing ? you should have just laughed at him and went ahead with your round. He has no right to stop you from playing, he could of had disqualified post event at best, but that would have had to be a committee ruling. I think you should complain to club in writing and state your case, surely Mr Grumpy is guilty of entrapment as he failed to warn or stop you :pac:

Ps
As for your quote about Rugby .... I can never understand how any sport where a player used fake blood can be seen as a paragon of virtue :P all sports have a dark side.

Senna

coylemj wrote: »

Better still, write a formal letter of complaint to the club secretary. You paid to enter a competition and were bounced out by that assh0le. Better that the committee member are aware of his actions than you try to confront him face to face. It may very well be the case that the committee would be delighted to have some ammunition to rein him in because I'm sure he throws his weight around like that all the time, probably to the embarrassment of other members.

Complaining to him in person 'with all his buddies around' will get you nowhere, he's no doubt convinced that he knows the rulebook inside out and chances are that his buddies are of the same mind, otherwise why would they be hanging out with him? He has probably surrounded himself with sycophants whom he helped to become members.

That's the thing, I would prefer to say it to his face and make sure everyone else hears that he doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to the rules and he should mind his own business, I'd shame him and it works, I deal with these kind of people all the time, all you have to is not give him chance to react.
Yes the letter to the committee is the right thing to do, but I'm petty and I hold grudges:).

BoardsMember

The rule has an exception that allows you practise on or near practise areas. You were practising near one. You're ok to do so in my book. I would have ignored him.

rrpc

BoardsMember wrote: »

The rule has an exception that allows you practise on or near practise areas. You were practising near one. You're ok to do so in my book. I would have ignored him.

Assuming the practice area is on or near the first teeing ground; most of them usually are.

Exception: Practice putting or chipping on or near the first teeing ground or any practice area before starting a round or play-off is permitted.

riffmongous

Jawgap wrote: »

Yeah, I like the idea of writing with a suggestion to improve the marking around the practice area with a drop in about the dq - it's a bit more constructive than just complaining.

Definitely,because I wonder too if you are the first he's done that to or if makes a habit of it?

jungleman

OP, sorry to hear about your experience! Every course has one of those guys, and despite what they believe, they are not well liked.

As soon as I read your post I was reminded of this clip!