Jaguar XJ Series 1 - am I mad?

?Cee?view

Hi All,

I'm thinking of getting a Jag/Daimler XJ series 1 early 70s...to use as a daily runner.

Is this a crazy idea? I've never owned a classic before.

In my defence, my commute is a total of about 5 to 6 miles per day. I love the idea of the cheap tax and I presume insurance is cheap as chips too.

What think ye?

jca

I can't see insurance being cheap for everyday use. Fuel costs will be high as the journey is so short you'll be lucky to get better than the low 20's mpg. The novelty of old car everyday driving wears off very quickly. I did it for a few years but it just made me hate the car in the end.

afatbollix

Do it.

Ive allways wanted a sofa for a car.

?Cee?view

jca wrote: »

I can't see insurance being cheap for everyday use. Fuel costs will be high as the journey is so short you'll be lucky to get better than the low 20's mpg. The novelty of old car everyday driving wears off very quickly. I did it for a few years but it just made me hate the car in the end.

How would the daily use make insurance more expensive? I'd keep my current car so that would have "normal" insurance. Does classic insurance restrict the daily amount of use or is it just restricted by mileage?

Agreed on the mpg. I've kind of resigned myself to that. I currently drive a 3.2 so pretty used to that.

jca wrote: »

I did it for a few years but it just made me hate the car in the end.

That's what I'm kind of afraid of...

?Cee?view

afatbollix wrote: »

Do it.

Ive allways wanted a sofa for a car.

Love your name! If I get this Jag you should really give it to me to go with it

I'm thinking of the 4.2 so I think it would be a pretty nice sounding and relatively fast sofa.

john hanrahan

the xj is a great looking car i would be tempted to buy one myself but i have a mercedes 450se as a daily driver which is really reliable but you would always be doing a few jobs with it, and the biggest challenge can be finding mechanics willing to work on them.

running a classic as a daily driver is a challenge, its great fun but a challenge.
tax and ins are cheap, petrol is expensive

my advice, buy the best you can afford, it will save you money in the long run.
and if you buy well you could always sell if its not for you.

what could possibly go wrong

best of luck

SpitfireIV

?Cee?view wrote: »

Hi All,

I'm thinking of getting a Jag/Daimler XJ series 1 early 70s...to use as a daily runner.

Is this a crazy idea? I've never owned a classic before.

In my defence, my commute is a total of about 5 to 6 miles per day. I love the idea of the cheap tax and I presume insurance is cheap as chips too.

What think ye?

Are you handy around the garage or not afraid to get your hands dirty? Classics take a lot of car and attention, cars of that period crave (and demand?!) constant care, checks, and hands on maintenance, not to mention issues with rust etc, so, its important to keep them clean too.

?Cee?view

john hanrahan wrote: »

what could possibly go wrong

That's the kind of attitude that makes me think I'll go for this.

I'm going to have a look into the Club scene to see how active it is. Hopefully if it is, they could recommend mechanics and specialists.

?Cee?view

CroppyBoy1798 wrote: »

Are you handy around the garage or not afraid to get your hands dirty? Classics take a lot of car and attention, cars of that period crave (and demand?!) constant care, checks, and hands on maintenance, not to mention issues with rust etc, so, its important to keep them clean too.

Not handy but also not afraid. I like the idea of something older as it's got less electronics which do scare me.

Understood on the care. I'll keep it garaged.

macplaxton

Yes you are mad! Sounds like you've already made your mind up, so crack on and enjoy.

Agricola

Wholesale looney I'd say. Go for it!

unkel

Their reliability was terrible when they were brand new. And now they're over 40 years old. Will probably break your heart. Sure go for it :pac:

?Cee?view wrote: »

How would the daily use make insurance more expensive? I'd keep my current car so that would have "normal" insurance. Does classic insurance restrict the daily amount of use or is it just restricted by mileage?

Agreed on the mpg. I've kind of resigned myself to that. I currently drive a 3.2 so pretty used to that.

Classic insurance should be cheap as it's your second car. It does usually have a mileage limit thougyh. MPG is irrelevant if you only do a few thousand miles per year.

Bigus

More like 6- 8 mpg on that journey, although a mains block heater would do wonders for reliability comfort and mpg. There's a reason people go for Mecrs for dailys.

?Cee?view

unkel wrote: »

Their reliability was terrible when they were brand new. And now they're over 40 years old. Will probably break your heart. Sure go for it :pac:

Apparently the Series 1 is not bad. The rot apparently started with the Series 2 when British Leyland took over.

I think the heartbreak might be character building

?Cee?view

Bigus wrote: »

... although a mains block heater would do wonders for reliability comfort and mpg. There's a reason people go for Mecrs for dailys.

Showing my ignorance here...

What does all that mean? What's a mains block heater? Could I install one and what would it do? Do old Mercs have them or just not need them?

jca

?Cee?view wrote: »

Showing my ignorance here...

What does all that mean? What's a mains block heater? Could I install one and what would it do? Do old Mercs have them or just not need them?

I really think you should buy an 85 Micra if you want the cheap driving experience.

Bigus

?Cee?view wrote: »

Showing my ignorance here...

What does all that mean? What's a mains block heater? Could I install one and what would it do? Do old Mercs have them or just not need them?

Mains block heaters use electricity in cold climates to preheat engine block, engine oil, gearbox oil, and coolant.

Using one in Ireland in the morning if it was on a timer for 10 or 20 mins your car would start like it was just driven 20 miles and interior heater would also work instantly, with subsequent massive saving in Fuel consumption(?and might bring the mpg up from 6 to 16) , as no choke necessary or enrichment necessary.

My comment re Mecrs is unrelated and more to do with original reliability as well as 40 year old reliabity, together with parts availability and general superior and ahead of its time mechanics compared to dated British engineering.

Block heaters explained below,
http://ckom.com/article/189322/why-you-should-be-plugging-your-vehicles-block-heater

?Cee?view

jca wrote: »

I really think you should buy an 85 Micra if you want the cheap driving experience.

Where'd I say I'm looking for a cheap driving experience? I pay nearly 2 grand a year in tax and too much in insurance currently so another car with buckets of class and style but that costs a lot less to tax and insure is certainly attractive.

How does that mean I want a cheap driving experience?

You can keep your Micra. Sorry if my questions appear to offend your sensibilities. Thanks for your contribution.

?Cee?view

Bigus wrote: »

Mains block heaters use electricity in cold climates to preheat engine block, engine oil, gearbox oil, and coolant.

Using one in Ireland in the morning if it was on a timer for 10 or 20 mins your car would start like it was just driven 20 miles and interior heater would also work instantly, with subsequent massive saving in Fuel consumption(?and might bring the mpg up from 6 to 16) , as no choke necessary or enrichment necessary.

My comment re Mecrs is unrelated and more to do with original reliability as well as 40 year old reliabity, together with parts availability and general superior and ahead of its time mechanics compared to dated British engineering.

Block heaters explained below,
http://ckom.com/article/189322/why-you-should-be-plugging-your-vehicles-block-heater

Excellent. Many thanks. I'll look into that. A neighbour had a Series 2 when they came out. My recollection is that it spent most of its time being repaired!

jimgoose

Completely, certifiably, window-lickingly, dribbling-in-front-of-the-Vicar out of your mind to even consider such a thing. Do it. Do it now.

macplaxton

"mains block heater"

One that leaps to mind is the Kenlowe Hot Start. http://www.kenlowe.com/Heating.php

carchaeologist

Old XJs.. Hmm...
Rot - fuel consumption - Rear inboard disc brakes.
That's about it covered.
It should be remembered that series two XJs were built by British Leyland.
I like em, but wouldn't use one every day, unless you are good with the spanners and mechanical stuff in general.

Buy a 96 Corolla for cheap unburstable reliable every day motoring, and use the Jag on occasion then.

jimgoose

macplaxton wrote: »

"mains block heater"

One that leaps to mind is the Kenlowe Hot Start. http://www.kenlowe.com/Heating.php

I'd be inclined to invest in a good strong battery like a Yuasa Silver and 0W-40 synthetic oil instead.

saabsaab

Hi, I had one as a daily driver for a few years. Can't say anything too bad about it but it had stainless steel exhausts fitted and electronic ignition for greater reliability. Electronic fuel pumps are also a good idea. Don't use 0w30 oil or any light modern oils as the oil seals are not great an likely to leak.
What I hated about the series one was the headlight dip was a foot operated on the floor a pain in the city, series two have it on the column switch.

Probably use a good 20w50 or 15w50. Find a good one, an old style mechanic and go for it. I sold mine on for a bit more than I paid for it 4 years earlier.

jimgoose

saabsaab wrote: »

Hi, I had one as a daily driver for a few years. Can't say anything too bad about it but it had stainless steel exhausts fitted and electronic ignition for greater reliability. Electronic fuel pumps are also a good idea. Don't use 0w30 oil or any light modern oils as the oil seals are not great an likely to leak.
What I hated about the series one was the headlight dip was a foot operated on the floor a pain in the city, series two have it on the column switch.

Probably use a good 20w50 or 15w50. Find a good one, an old style mechanic and go for it. I sold mine on for a bit more than I paid for it 4 years earlier.

Anything to be said for an expensive 0W-50, you reckon?

Thinkingaboutit

There were British Leyland quality issues, but a car kept running and working will have long moved past them. Fuel consumption will be the killer. Classic insurance can be got, and a modest commute use will not breach the mileage limit, but most classics, even modest ones like any Farina, have a heavy fuel consumption compared to moderns. Now that can be resolved by careful driving, but those machines are big and heavy with large multi-cylinder engines. Personally, I'd go for something like a Toyota Crown with electric everything in the mid seventies, or a slightly more modest vehicle (compared to the Jag) like a 6/110. Practical Classics have a very good article now on the more modest exec cars of the mid seventies from 5 series BMW, Toyota Crown, Renault 20, to Wolseley 2200. The fuel use for me would be the killer.

Tzar Chasm

A compromise for those suggesting a micra

jca

?Cee?view wrote: »

Where'd I say I'm looking for a cheap driving experience? I pay nearly 2 grand a year in tax and too much in insurance currently so another car with buckets of class and style but that costs a lot less to tax and insure is certainly attractive.

How does that mean I want a cheap driving experience?

You can keep your Micra. Sorry if my questions appear to offend your sensibilities. Thanks for your contribution.

I was only pulling your leg but I forgot this is boards where humour doesn't exist. Twice in your opening post you mention cheap.... When I did the everyday classic experience commuting to work was not covered by my classic insurance policy so I had to cancel it and take out a full policy which cost the same if not a bit more than my standard car policy. Maybe classic insurance is different now but make sure to check first. All you need is a grumpy cop and you're screwed. Things I found most annoying besides the constant repairs which I could do myself luckily enough were misty windows and the fuel consumption.

?Cee?view

Thinkingaboutit wrote: »

There were British Leyland quality issues, but a car kept running and working will have long moved past them.

My Haynes buy and restore manual arrived this morning and that's pretty much exactly what it says.

Dades

Do it. Classy looking cars and only getting better looking with age.

A mate of mine ran an '89 as his daily for a few years before growing tired of the NCT failing it every year and paying €1,800 in tax. Now it sits in his garden rusting.

IF you can find a pre-80's one that has been maintained by someone who currently uses it a lot, then great. A garage queen might look pretty but subject her to a new life of commuting gremlins could manifest themselves.

I commuted into Dublin centre for years in a '72 Fiat and then a '72 Merc. Classics like to be used.

Go in with your eyes open and be prepared for the worst. But you might get some good years out of her and you might even find a life partner. At least you won't be one more shmuck in a Mondeo.

jca

?Cee?view wrote: »

My Haynes buy and restore manual arrived this morning and that's pretty much exactly what it says.

It really depends on how diligent (or not) the previous owners were.

?Cee?view

jca wrote: »

I was only pulling your leg but I forgot this is boards where humour doesn't exist. Twice in your opening post you mention cheap.... When I did the everyday classic experience commuting to work was not covered by my classic insurance policy so I had to cancel it and take out a full policy which cost the same if not a bit more than my standard car policy. Maybe classic insurance is different now but make sure to check first. All you need is a grumpy cop and you're screwed. Things I found most annoying besides the constant repairs which I could do myself luckily enough were misty windows and the fuel consumption.

Apologies. I reread your post later and felt guilty about my snotty response. I'll need to make sure to remember my sense of humour when (I've moved on from If) I go ahead with this I'll keep the guilt though - it'll be useful when I'm shelling out on repairs etc. and buying the cheaper school uniforms for the kids!

jca

?Cee?view wrote: »

Apologies. I reread your post later and felt guilty about my snotty response. I'll need to make sure to remember my sense of humour when (I've moved on from If) I go ahead with this I'll keep the guilt though - it'll be useful when I'm shelling out on repairs etc. and buying the cheaper school uniforms for the kids!

Have you an actual car in mind what I mean is are you inheriting a jag or something? If you know the cars history it's a great help. The car I drove had some bodge jobs done that were more difficult to do than doing the job correctly in the first place....

saabsaab

I recall reading that modern synthetics 0w50 or 5w30 etc are too slippy and find their way past seals etc. Old style engine suited to an older type oil..

jimgoose

saabsaab wrote: »

I recall reading that modern synthetics 0w50 or 5w30 etc are too slippy and find their way past seals etc. Old style engine suited to an older type oil..

I keep hearing that - I'd be inclined to try a 0W50 in an old 'dozer like an XJ S1 and keep a close eye on it for a while to see if it was inclined to devour it.

saabsaab

I forgot the series 1 xj6 had a poor demister system too. Ages to clear the windscreen in the winter.

saabsaab

I wouldn't be inclined to try it on an old XJ6, if the synthetic oil washes out/gets past the seals, it might be hard to stop the leaks even when changed back to the older heavier oil?

jimgoose

saabsaab wrote: »

I wouldn't be inclined to try it on an old XJ6, if the synthetic oil washes out/gets past the seals, it might be hard to stop the leaks even when changed back to the older heavier oil?

Mmm. I think the problem is a modern full-synth might clean things out too much, including dirt that was holding old seals together.

saabsaab

Yep. I think you hit the nail on the head!

ba_barabus

OP my first port of call would be to actually buy a reasonably simple classic car to work on an learn from if you have no background experience. That's what I did and I learned a good bit. I never stood to loose much from it but i gained an invaluable amount of confidence to help me move on to more complicated cars. Simple doesn't have to mean boring or small in the classic car world btw :cool:

Some mundane things on an XJ wouldn't be easy to sort for example changing the inboard discs and pads can mean a lot of work.

Having said that I've always just bought classics as i just wanted them!

kev1.3s

Aw fûck it! If you want it just buy it and if it works out to be a disaster learn from it and move on. always loved the lines of the series 1 xj6, it seems to be more squat at the rear and if you do buy one I for one will be jealous.
I call first option when you get sick of the fuel consumption.

jca

If you do get the jag would you consider an lpg conversion?

?Cee?view

jca wrote: »

Have you an actual car in mind what I mean is are you inheriting a jag or something? If you know the cars history it's a great help. The car I drove had some bodge jobs done that were more difficult to do than doing the job correctly in the first place....

Wish I was inheriting. No such luck. I've seen one for sale in Ireland online (Daimler) but I'm a bit anxious as it's got a picture of its 2014 Tax cert and Insurance cert included which suggests to me that it might be sitting idle. It's an awful colour as well but superficially looks to be in good nick.

?Cee?view

saabsaab wrote: »

I forgot the series 1 xj6 had a poor demister system too. Ages to clear the windscreen in the winter.

I read that somewhere as well. I'll just have to buy a chamois. Or, there are aftermarket aircons available, but they'd probably cost a good chunk.

?Cee?view

ba_barabus wrote: »

OP my first port of call would be to actually buy a reasonably simple classic car to work on an learn from if you have no background experience. That's what I did and I learned a good bit. I never stood to loose much from it but i gained an invaluable amount of confidence to help me move on to more complicated cars. Simple doesn't have to mean boring or small in the classic car world btw :cool:

Some mundane things on an XJ wouldn't be easy to sort for example changing the inboard discs and pads can mean a lot of work.

Having said that I've always just bought classics as i just wanted them!

Agreed. Yours is the sensible route and the one I should take...but...I think I'd feel like I was compromising.

The other classic I'd really love, which couldn't be more different, is a 60s Fiat 500. Problem is, I'd have trouble getting the kids into the back of it whereas with the XJ6 I can make some weak argument to "her indoors" that it is actually a practical family choice.

?Cee?view

jca wrote: »

If you do get the jag would you consider an lpg conversion?

I've toyed with the idea, but a concern would be that it seems to be installed by various small operations. Now, I'm sure many of them are perfectly reputable but I wouldn't know how to differentiate.

Can it damage the engine if done badly?

Tzar Chasm

?Cee?view wrote: »

Agreed. Yours is the sensible route and the one I should take...but...I think I'd feel like I was compromising.

The other classic I'd really love, which couldn't be more different, is a 60s Fiat 500. Problem is, I'd have trouble getting the kids into the back of it whereas with the XJ6 I can make some weak argument to "her indoors" that it is actually a practical family choice.

Jaysus, what sort of bangers have you dragged home in the past if you can argue the sensibility of a mid seventies jag.

?Cee?view

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

Jaysus, what sort of bangers have you dragged home in the past if you can argue the sensibility of a mid seventies jag.

My wife is now allergic to Alfas. She things anything else is preferable.

ba_barabus

?Cee?view wrote: »

Agreed. Yours is the sensible route and the one I should take...but...I think I'd feel like I was compromising.

My cars have been everything but sensible, luminous green Austin Maxi, Rover SD1 in Gold, a Morris Marina, Citroën BX and not so old MGF.

The Maxi and SD1 were the most fun

?Cee?view

ba_barabus wrote: »

My cars have been everything but sensible, luminous green Austin Maxi, Rover SD1 in Gold, a Morris Marina, Citroën BX and not so old MGF.

The Maxi and SD1 were the most fun

I love those Rovers

MercMad

I think if you want to have the experience then once you pick a decent car then why not. I have run 25-40 year old cars on an almost daily basis for 15+ years now. As i said if you pick a good example (which can sometimes mean increasing your budget) and get it properly inspected and serviced you've nothing to loose.

Cars which have rust issues should be avoided as well as cars that have seen little use or been standing for long periods. These always have annoying faults that keep cropping up.

One concern with using a Jag 4.2 for short trips is that it wont heat up thoroughly. That will eventually lead to issues where unburnt fuel enters the oil and also crankcase moisture will cause poor lubrication and engine wear. A decent trip would be required fairly regularly.

I regularly look after older Mercs and this can be an issue that folk never consider. The Jaguar Daimler Club here is well established and could be worthwhile to join.

Good luck.