Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015/16 (*EVERYONE READ MOD POST in OP)

Vicxas

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

I am convinced that you put a dedicated DM in front of him for a run of games and we'd see aa completely different player.

I also have the same feeling that he was left horribly exposed in Rodgers setup, be interesting to see how he lines out now.

MightyMandarin

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

I am convinced that you put a dedicated DM in front of him for a run of games and we'd see aa completely different player.

Is that really the sign of a top CB though? It's all well and good for a CB to play well if he has a Matic or Mascherano playing in front of him, but the sign of a really good CB is when he stays calm when he is exposed.

Lovren seems to **** the bed any time he's caught in possession with nobody else around such as the West Ham game.

I don't think he's good enough for us in the long run and I think we should cut our losses on him.

MD1990

price690 wrote: »

did you watch much of him for Lyon?

He was touted as the next big thing at one stage, we were actually linked with him from Lyon around 2011-2012 I think it was. When Boumsong departed Lovren saw alot of game time and was decent enough.

He was playing pretty decent stuff towards the end of that season.

However, the wheels came off at Lyon not long after, he was quite simply woeful and his stock plummeted to the point he was sold to Southampton for a price similar to what Lyon actually paid for him. The french media were not too fond of his performances.

He had a terrific start to his Southampton career, up until Christmas he did quite well. However, his form again tailed off after xmas (not to the level it did previously with Lyon).

I would argue the guy is not a top defender at all and his performances (even before coming to Liverpool) show that. He went from promising to woeful at Lyon in a short time and also from good to average at Southampton.

Its annoying when we hear people saying the guy has clear pedigree and simply hit the skids at liverpool, theres plenty of evidence of him failing to kick on elsewhere too.

Gary Neville did a piece on him on MNS analysing his performance for Southampton at Old Trafford and earmarked him as a "top top defender" on the back of that game and it really gained legs after that.

You only need two eyes to see the guy is a very mediocre defender prone to the odd purple patch.

Great post. I heard about his Lyon form before & noticed he tailed off at Southampton too after an injury but I thought like a lot of young CBs that his Lyon form was just an young player having a poor spell. But it's looks like he just isn't a very good CB at all.

Kerrigooney

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Is that really the sign of a top CB though? It's all well and good for a CB to play well if he has a Matic or Mascherano playing in front of him, but the sign of a really good CB is when he stays calm when he is exposed.

Lovren seems to **** the bed any time he's caught in possession with nobody else around such as the West Ham game.

I don't think he's good enough for us in the long run and I think we should cut our losses on him.

We'd have to give him away at this stage. And even then he's probably on a decent wedge that he wouldn't get elsewhere so we're probably stuck with him.

Utopia Parkway

Gomez went off injured for the England U-21's. Looked like his ankle.

Turtyturd

Kerrigooney wrote: »

We'd have to give him away at this stage. And even then he's probably on a decent wedge that he wouldn't get elsewhere so we're probably stuck with him.

He's a prime candidate to be Milaned.

Season long loan at AC with use paying 99% of his wages and them definitely buying him the following season.

~Rebel~

MD1990 wrote: »

Great post. I heard about his Lyon form before & noticed he tailed off at Southampton too after an injury but I thought like a lot of young CBs that his Lyon form was just an young player having a poor spell. But it's looks like he just isn't a very good CB at all.

There's different ways of looking at it. He's had pretty extended periods of being very good. We can see his limitations aren't technical or physical, they're mental. That's something that can be worked on.

Maybe we see an improvement under new leadership, maybe we don't. He's still very much a distant 3rd choice, but i'm interested to see what Klopp brings out of him. At the very least, I expect him to come under a lot less pressure in a Klopp system, which should help. Hopefully we'll see an improvement, and if not he'll be sold off in January or the summer most likely.

ush

Nevermind whatever set-up Klopp will bring. Lovren puts himself under pressure. Remember him giving the ball away for West Ham's 3rd.

price690

Go through our squad with a fine comb, anyone severely lacking in pace (no matter how technically sound) will struggle to make an impact under Klopp.

Thats the reality of it i'm afraid

slingerz

price690 wrote: »

Go through our squad with a fine comb, anyone severely lacking in pace (no matter how technically sound) will struggle to make an impact under Klopp.

Thats the reality of it i'm afraid

TBH at the top level pace should be a prerequisite about time we shifted the one paced cart horses we have

MightyMandarin

price690 wrote: »

Go through our squad with a fine comb, anyone severely lacking in pace (no matter how technically sound) will struggle to make an impact under Klopp.

Thats the reality of it i'm afraid

Nuri Sahin was one of his favoured players at Dortmund and he's not known for his pace at all. The likes of Grosskreutz, Kehl, Bender, Gundogan are hardly rapid either.

Going forward, he will utilise players like Sturridge and Ings, and I fully expect Lallana to be cut from the squad. But in the middle of the park and in some other positions I don't think many will suffer simply because they're slow.

If players are good enough, they'll stay. Not every position has to have a Theo Walcott or Arjen Robben playing there.

Tipsy McSwagger

Can't wait for Saturday's match. First game in a long time I'm optimistic about tactics, formation, and the players being up for it.

Charlie19

ush wrote: »

Nevermind whatever set-up Klopp will bring. Lovren puts himself under pressure. Remember him giving the ball away for West Ham's 3rd.

He might of been told to keep possession at all costs and that put extra pressure on the Poor lad, there is no other reason why he made so many mistakes.

Those step overs actually reminded me of Ronaldo when he fist signed for utd, so for that reason I still hold some hope.

Hangballlouie

I'm treating now until Swansea at home at the end of November as pre-season for Klopp. I expect by then he'll have the majority of the players understanding what he wants from them, and he should have a good idea about who can fit into the system/s he wants to implement. I expect us to still get results in this time period, but for me, the next 5-6 weeks are not that important in the overall picture.

MD1990

Charlie19 wrote: »

He might of been told to keep possession at all costs and that put extra pressure on the Poor lad, there is no other reason why he made so many mistakes.

Those step overs actually reminded me of Ronaldo when he fist signed for utd, so for that reason I still hold some hope.

This is a joke or you still hold some hope because you think Lovren is good at doing step overs lol

daithijjj

I know i championed Lovren before he signed, and i stand by it now, i think he will get better once all the calamitous decisions are ironed out by Klopp in terms of the make up of this squad.

I just have one stat to put out there as i feel there is too much of a lilt towards Lovren for blame.

When we played Stoke and got smashed 6-1, it was our worst defensive display in the league for 52 years. I'd be inclined to think there were other issues aside from Lovren, who did not play that day. Furthermore, the expected clean sheets against Norwich and Villa etc didnt materialise through his absence.

That other issue happens to be Martin Skrtel imo. A player who, if he had anything about him upstairs, should be captaining this team right now, usually 5 years older than anyone who plays beside him in defence. I think its his 9th season with us as well. Why do i see the club line out with James Milner as captain 3 games in at Old Trafford?.

For me, this is where we have been let down over the last while, Skrtel is just useless but been there so long its almost treason to criticise. I dont believe he can form a solid partnership with anyone because he is a braindead footballer and thus, a renegade, and very little can be done to change that mindset now for him imo.

If we were dripping in clean sheets (sorry, consider that my homage to Linda) while Lovren was out all this would be fair enough. The fact is we arent, and we never did before Lovren, with the only common denominator in central defence over the last 3 or 4 years, Martin Skrtel. Now, im not saying he is all to blame but i feel its significant that the player, after 9 seasons and being so much older than most around him shows next to no leadership and that is reflected in how he plays, he plays for himself when CB is a partnership 'game'. Some may feel thats harsh but thats what i see.

The two seasons prior to this season Skrtel had 20 clean sheets in the league, Lovren had 18, only stand out 'fun' fact from this is that it took Skrtel an extra 15 or 16 games worth to get that many, in what you could say was a vastly superior team in one of those seasons.

Anyway, its all change now and i expect Klopp to bring in at least one CB, i expect in 9 months to be talking about Sakho and Lovren fighting for the other slot. Other than being able to stay fit and available i dont see any redeeming features in Skrtels game, given his age, that warrants keeping him on.

Just one mans view.

Knex*

Klopp is the grin that keeps on grinning.

gafferino

daithijjj wrote: »

I know i championed Lovren before he signed, and i stand by it now, i think he will get better once all the calamitous decisions are ironed out by Klopp in terms of the make up of this squad.

I just have one stat to put out there as i feel there is too much of a lilt towards Lovren for blame.

When we played Stoke and got smashed 6-1, it was our worst defensive display in the league for 52 years. I'd be inclined to think there were other issues aside from Lovren, who did not play that day. Furthermore, the expected clean sheets against Norwich and Villa etc didnt materialise through his absence.

That other issue happens to be Martin Skrtel imo. A player who, if he had anything about him upstairs, should be captaining this team right now, usually 5 years older than anyone who plays beside him in defence. I think its his 9th season with us as well. Why do i see the club line out with James Milner as captain 3 games in at Old Trafford?.

For me, this is where we have been let down over the last while, Skrtel is just useless but been there so long its almost treason to criticise. I dont believe he can form a solid partnership with anyone because he is a braindead footballer and thus, a renegade, and very little can be done to change that mindset now for him imo.

If we were dripping in clean sheets (sorry, consider that my homage to Linda) while Lovren was out all this would be fair enough. The fact is we arent, and we never did before Lovren, with the only common denominator in central defence over the last 3 or 4 years, Martin Skrtel. Now, im not saying he is all to blame but i feel its significant that the player, after 9 seasons and being so much older than most around him shows next to no leadership and that is reflected in how he plays, he plays for himself when CB is a partnership 'game'. Some may feel thats harsh but thats what i see.

The two seasons prior to this season Skrtel had 20 clean sheets in the league, Lovren had 18, only stand out 'fun' fact from this is that it took Skrtel an extra 15 or 16 games worth to get that many, in what you could say was a vastly superior team in one of those seasons.

Anyway, its all change now and i expect Klopp to bring in at least one CB, i expect in 9 months to be talking about Sakho and Lovren fighting for the other slot. Other than being able to stay fit and available i dont see any redeeming features in Skrtels game, given his age, that warrants keeping him on.

Just one mans view.

I'd agree with most of this in fairness. It's been discussed a fair bit in here and I think quite a few agree. He displays very little in leadership qualities in a position where this quality is so important.

MD1990

Skrtel isn't good enough at all. The only thing is that he is decent in the air & has a bit of pace. He also gives 110% on the pitch every time. But everything else is poor & he has to make so many last ditch challenges from being out of position & loves dropping off too.

I agree skrytel isn't great, I don't think lovren is any better though, out of his depth in a team expected to challenge for top4 imo. I can't see him coming good to an acceptable degree, hismistakes are beyond mistakes imo, total lunacy at times, nutty stuff.

Don't see why lallana is nailed on by many to be a goner under klopp, I always reckoned himself and coutinho can't be accommodated in a first 11 but given lallanas age and contract with us along with his ability I think klopp will see him as a useable asset.

MightyMandarin

Skrtel was never a world beater, but I'd still start him over Lovren imo.

Selling Agger for a pittance will go down as one of the biggest mistakes of Rodgers' reign. Absolutely criminal that a player like him is stuck in the Danish league as I think he could still do a better job than either of them.

I reckon Kolo, Lovren and Skrtel will all get chopped in the next year and Kloppo will bring in someone from Germany, hopefully someone like Papasthapopoulos or Subotic and will give Gomez (and hopefully Ilori) a shot.

Sakho, for me, has to become our principal CB, if we're going by the ones we currently have.

~Rebel~

MD1990 wrote: »

Skrtel isn't good enough at all. The only thing is that he is decent in the air & has a bit of pace. He also gives 110% on the pitch every time. But everything else is poor & he has to make so many last ditch challenges from being out of position & loves dropping off too.

Decent when he has people to either side, like a flat back 4, or a 3 at the back so he can be covered. Then he can just throw himself about at his leisure. When it comes to needing disciplined intelligent tracking and movement, he ends up all at sea.

MightyMandarin

Augeo wrote: »

Don't see why lallana is nailed on by many to be a goner under klopp, I always reckoned himself and coutinho can't be accommodated in a first 11 but given lallanas age and contract with us along with his ability I think klopp will see him as a useable asset.

I think it's mostly due to his lack of pace, but he also tends to lose the ball quite a bit.

I think he won't have much of a chance if he wants to play as a #10, but honestly, I think he could try and revert to a position around Milner, Can, Henderson as he's by far the most creative among that bunch. Klopp might try and convert him to there, or else I think he'll get sold.

I just can't see him flourishing as a #10 or winger under Klopp.

hefferboi

daithijjj wrote: »

I know i championed Lovren before he signed, and i stand by it now, i think he will get better once all the calamitous decisions are ironed out by Klopp in terms of the make up of this squad.

I just have one stat to put out there as i feel there is too much of a lilt towards Lovren for blame.

When we played Stoke and got smashed 6-1, it was our worst defensive display in the league for 52 years. I'd be inclined to think there were other issues aside from Lovren, who did not play that day. Furthermore, the expected clean sheets against Norwich and Villa etc didnt materialise through his absence.

That other issue happens to be Martin Skrtel imo. A player who, if he had anything about him upstairs, should be captaining this team right now, usually 5 years older than anyone who plays beside him in defence. I think its his 9th season with us as well. Why do i see the club line out with James Milner as captain 3 games in at Old Trafford?.

For me, this is where we have been let down over the last while, Skrtel is just useless but been there so long its almost treason to criticise. I dont believe he can form a solid partnership with anyone because he is a braindead footballer and thus, a renegade, and very little can be done to change that mindset now for him imo.

If we were dripping in clean sheets (sorry, consider that my homage to Linda) while Lovren was out all this would be fair enough. The fact is we arent, and we never did before Lovren, with the only common denominator in central defence over the last 3 or 4 years, Martin Skrtel. Now, im not saying he is all to blame but i feel its significant that the player, after 9 seasons and being so much older than most around him shows next to no leadership and that is reflected in how he plays, he plays for himself when CB is a partnership 'game'. Some may feel thats harsh but thats what i see.

The two seasons prior to this season Skrtel had 20 clean sheets in the league, Lovren had 18, only stand out 'fun' fact from this is that it took Skrtel an extra 15 or 16 games worth to get that many, in what you could say was a vastly superior team in one of those seasons.

Anyway, its all change now and i expect Klopp to bring in at least one CB, i expect in 9 months to be talking about Sakho and Lovren fighting for the other slot. Other than being able to stay fit and available i dont see any redeeming features in Skrtels game, given his age, that warrants keeping him on.

Just one mans view.

Yes!

Speckydodge

MightyMandarin wrote:

I think it's mostly due to his lack of pace, but he also tends to lose the ball quite a bit.

MightyMandarin wrote:

I think he won't have much of a chance if he wants to play as a #10, but honestly, I think he could try and revert to a position around Milner, Can, Henderson as he's by far the most creative among that bunch. Klopp might try and convert him to there, or else I think he'll get sold.

MightyMandarin wrote:

I think it's mostly due to his lack of pace, but he also tends to lose the ball quite a bit.

MightyMandarin wrote:

I think he won't have much of a chance if he wants to play as a #10, but honestly, I think he could try and revert to a position around Milner, Can, Henderson as he's by far the most creative among that bunch. Klopp might try and convert him to there, or else I think he'll get sold.

MightyMandarin wrote:

I just can't see him flourishing as a #10 or winger under Klopp.

I actually think lallana could flourish under Klopp , he's already excellent at pressing, has enough pace, good game intelligence , makes good runs and has great technique the biggest thing he'll have to work on is not taking so many touches of the ball, of over cooking it and showing the play down. When he starts releasing the ball quicker I think he'll be excellent.

Speckydodge

MightyMandarin wrote:

Sakho, for me, has to become our principal CB, if we're going by the ones we currently have.

I reckon he was told about Klopp coming a while back and that's why he signed his new contract even though he wasn't happy. Was probably reassured that he'd be Klopps no 1 cb.

klose

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Selling Agger for a pittance will go down as one of the biggest mistakes of Rodgers' reign. Absolutely criminal that a player like him is stuck in the Danish league as I think he could still do a better job than either of them.

Agger, we all loved him and lovren has shown nothing anywhere near to date that he will ever be as good for us but moving on agger pretty much made sense at the time given how brittle he was, i mean he publcally said he wasn't physically able for the league amymore. Not the kind of mindset you want a player to be in.

Speckydodge wrote: »

I actually think lallana could flourish under Klopp , he's already excellent at pressing, has enough pace, good game intelligence , makes good runs and has great technique the biggest thing he'll have to work on is not taking so many touches of the ball, of over cooking it and showing the play down. When he starts releasing the ball quicker I think he'll be excellent.

I personally don't see lallana cutting it under klopp, what you say is largely true but to me he just slows down the game way too much when he is on the ball.




I see suso is in line to get the chop at milan in january too, pretty crazy move that.

garra

Charlie19 wrote: »

He might of been told to keep possession at all costs and that put extra pressure on the Poor lad, there is no other reason why he made so many mistakes.

Those step overs actually reminded me of Ronaldo when he fist signed for utd, so for that reason I still hold some hope.

Yes agree totes, all we need now is a partner for lovren who can do cruyff turns in the centre circle , a goalie to specialize in scorpion kicks for clearances and a couple of keepy uppy champs at full back.

marklazarcovic

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Skrtel was never a world beater, but I'd still start him over Lovren imo.

Selling Agger for a pittance will go down as one of the biggest mistakes of Rodgers' reign. Absolutely criminal that a player like him is stuck in the Danish league as I think he could still do a better job than either of them

you must not follow lfc news at all if this is what you think based on what went on before and since his departure regarding agger's performances and quality.

he was done unfortunately,its not a secret. no other big club wanted him.

using it as a stick against a former manager is unnecessary,there are plenty of factual sticks to use,this aint one,and its been repeated several times on here.

Knex*

Agree with Daithijjj re Skrtel, and would not be surprised or saddened for him to fall out from the first team. The opposite in fact. Its insane to see him take up a starting berth for so damn long.

Not sure I can agree on the Lovren thing, not after looking back at his history with Lyon in detail.