Mayo GAA Discussion Part 2

MaroonAndGreen

But on another note lads, isn't it great to be having the discussion about starting places. We look to have a bit of depth about us this year. Drake did well when he came in vs Derry too actually.

MaroonAndGreen

An interesting thought popped into my head yesterday re-watching the game actually... Cillian O'Connor has hit 19 goals in 38 Championship games (phenomenal record), and scores a solid 7-8 points a game... he couldnt be very far off Conor Mortimer's record tally I'd imagine? Wouldn't it be great to see him beat it.

Squatman

TommyDe wrote: »

Super round up of the game.

I'll disagree on the quoted point. Our shooting and shot selection is getting worse.
There can be no excuse for bad shooting as it cost us dearly in many games. And missing 3-21 in scoring opportunities is very worrying and not just a bad day at the office.
I feel this is the confidence issue ever present under the skin of this squad. A lad like loftus (with Reagan replacing moran) could bring the confidence back
We should not be relying on our half backs to drag us back into games. It's the forwards who need to up their shooting game.

AOS should be nowhere else but midfield. But we need a sweeper to cover that area because he can't keep up with a fast runner and leaves a massive hole through the middle that teams exploit.

I like this. there can be no excuse for bad shooting, so your answer is to bring in regan for moran. the same regan who shamelessly kicked 2 terrible wides against Galway. 1 being the last kick of the game? or is it someone else? or do you feel confidence without ability is the answer?

Shurimgreat

The problem against Galway is we didn't get into good scoring positions, but at least the forwards tried and actually put over some lovely scores from difficult positions.

Against Derry, they got into great positions and either put them wide or else refused to shoot.

It was a relief to see Doherty and Loftus come on and show no fear at having a go and actually having the technique to execute the scores.

At the end of the day Gaelic football is about putting the ball over or under the bar. There's no point being great at tackling, turn-overs, possession and the like if you can't finish it. Kerry and Dublin in this regard are the finished product. Mayo have everything except a couple of regular scorers.

MaroonAndGreen

Shurimgreat wrote:

At the end of the day Gaelic football is about putting the ball over or under the bar. There's no point being great at tackling, turn-overs, possession and the like if you can't finish it. Kerry and Dublin in this regard are the finished product. Mayo have everything except a couple of regular scorers.

Mayo have Cillian O'Connor who is arguably the most regular scorer in the country. I know it's a bold statement to say after the weekends game but our forwards aren't as poor as they're made out to be. Some great footballers.

boosabum

Regular scorer he may be but he's not in the top bracket of forwards who can win games on limited possession.
His free taking is not at the level it should be to make mayo contenders and he should be spending all his time near to opposition goal as opposed to rambling out the pitch.
Dara o'Se had a piece about the amount of scoring opportunities he has against Derry, interesting stats

PARlance

boosabum wrote: »

Regular scorer he may be but he's not in the top bracket of forwards who can win games on limited possession.
His free taking is not at the level it should be to make mayo contenders and he should be spending all his time near to opposition goal as opposed to rambling out the pitch.
Dara o'Se had a piece about the amount of scoring opportunities he has against Derry, interesting stats

I wouldn't agree with the free taking, I think he has been consistently good at frees for years now. But I would agree that he's not top bracket if you are looking at him as an out and out, raw talented, forward. He's not someone that will terrorise defences but he is intelligent enough to pop up and slot over plenty of points and more often than not, delivers under pressure... and there is a whole pile of pressure on him and to a lesser extent, Andy.

They are our only 2 regular outlets in terms of go to men. Aidan can be thrown in there from time to time to create scores but apart from that we're running on the hope of Loftus and (to a lesser extent for me) Doherty. Our HF line contributes but you would be a brave man to back any of them to score 3 or 4 points on a given day. Our HB line are called upon more than any other HB line.

I honestly think that we could get over the line with just one additional regular scoring forward. That's not to say that I wouldn't swap our forwards for a host of other counties but I do think that for the way we play, with our strengths in other areas, it could be enough.

If Loftus can step up and prove another good option then I'll start to get optimistic. I'm not expecting the heroics of last weekend, just another lad that we can go to.

Just as an aside, the kicking against Derry was car crash stuff but it has been a long time since we've experienced that. In general we've been pretty good at converting chances. Iirc, Dublin created a lot more chances than us over the 2 finals but only a point separated it in the end. We were very good against Tyrone in the League not so long ago and basically and got over the line thanks to taking a high percentage of scoring chances. Derry was a bad day but we haven't gone back to the bad old days.

Shurimgreat

PARlance wrote: »

I wouldn't agree with the free taking, I think he has been consistently good at frees for years now. But I would agree that he's not top bracket if you are looking at him as an out and out, raw talented, forward. He's not someone that will terrorise defences but he is intelligent enough to pop up and slot over plenty of points and more often than not, delivers under pressure... and there is a whole pile of pressure on him and to a lesser extent, Andy.

They are our only 2 regular outlets in terms of go to men. Aidan can be thrown in there from time to time to create scores but apart from that we're running on the hope of Loftus and (to a lesser extent for me) Doherty. Our HF line contributes but you would be a brave man to back any of them to score 3 or 4 points on a given day. Our HB line are called upon more than any other HB line.

I honestly think that we could get over the line with just one additional regular scoring forward. That's not to say that I wouldn't swap our forwards for a host of other counties but I do think that for the way we play, with our strengths in other areas, it could be enough.

If Loftus can step up and prove another good option then I'll start to get optimistic. I'm not expecting the heroics of last weekend, just another lad that we can go to.

Just as an aside, the kicking against Derry was car crash stuff but it has been a long time since we've experienced that. In general we've been pretty good at converting chances. Iirc, Dublin created a lot more chances than us over the 2 finals but only a point separated it in the end. We were very good against Tyrone in the League not so long ago and basically and got over the line thanks to taking a high percentage of scoring chances. Derry was a bad day but we haven't gone back to the bad old days.

Good post.

An observation. If you look at Kerry and Dublin, their forwards can link the play, win their own ball, tackle back but also the same forwards can score freely when required. They are jack of all trades. Mayo forwards on the other hand seem to be either ball winners and link players or else out and out scorers, although we don't have many of the latter. Its a pity our forwards couldn't combine the general dirty work with also being able to score freely.

I am trying to think of players as examples. Gooch Cooper would be one. He had brilliant distribution, could always find a player in a better position, but he also was able to score his own points. Bernard Brogan another example. In contrast Conor Mortimer was an out and out point scorer. Our forwards now are the opposite of Mortimer in that they do shed loads of dirty work but can't score freely.

Squatman

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Good post.
s. Gooch Cooper would be one. He had brilliant distribution, could always find a player in a better position, but he also was able to score his own points. Bernard Brogan another example. In contrast Conor Mortimer was an out and out point scorer. Our forwards now are the opposite of Mortimer in that they do shed loads of dirty work but can't score freely.

Gooch was able to distribute to a player in a better position, because there was a player in a better position. Cillian o connors attempt on goal (i think after Andys deflected shot) should have been laid off to #13, except for #13 didnt offer any support which is why cillian went for goal himself - despite being in a bad position to do so

charlie14

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Good post.

An observation. If you look at Kerry and Dublin, their forwards can link the play, win their own ball, tackle back but also the same forwards can score freely when required. They are jack of all trades. Mayo forwards on the other hand seem to be either ball winners and link players or else out and out scorers, although we don't have many of the latter. Its a pity our forwards couldn't combine the general dirty work with also being able to score freely.

I am trying to think of players as examples. Gooch Cooper would be one. He had brilliant distribution, could always find a player in a better position, but he also was able to score his own points. Bernard Brogan another example. In contrast Conor Mortimer was an out and out point scorer. Our forwards now are the opposite of Mortimer in that they do shed loads of dirty work but can't score freely.

Watching Kerry at the weekend, from what I recall, they had kicked 16 or 17 points before they kicked a wide.
The main reason, far as I could see for that, is that the have Geaney and O`Donohue playing as out and out forwards and the two go-to men when it comes to scores.
Neither appear expected to do much grunt work tracking back, and the rest of the team, unless its a virtual tap over, work to get one or the other on the ball in a shooting position, and then use their bodies to shield the shooter.
To me anyway, it makes sense when in possession. Stop expecting Hail Mary miracles from workhorses, when you have a few thoroughbreds that can do the job.

caddy16

Free parking in Clare County Council offices on Saturday for the match, short walk to the park from there for anyone interested.

PARlance

Shurimgreat wrote: »

An observation. If you look at Kerry and Dublin, their forwards can link the play, win their own ball, tackle back but also the same forwards can score freely when required. They are jack of all trades. Mayo forwards on the other hand seem to be either ball winners and link players or else out and out scorers, although we don't have many of the latter. Its a pity our forwards couldn't combine the general dirty work with also being able to score freely.

I more or less agree but I would have a slightly different take on it. If you look at the Munster Final, JO'D and Geaney got 1-12 of the 1-23. Of the 11 other points, BJ Keane got 1 after replacing JO'D. That's 16 out of 26 points attributed to the inside two... 4 of the remaining 10 points came from MF, HB, FB. 3 of the remaining 6 from a sub.

The point I'm labouring (like a Mayo attack) to make is that the rest of Kerry's forwards weren't exactly free scoring. I think the big difference is that the rest of them are excellent at creating space for the inside two through fast fluid movement. When the inside 2 (ignoring Donaghy) were getting the ball, they were getting it in position to finish a move. For us, we're often playing it around laterally among the HF/MF/HB's before kicking it inside and hoping the inside 2 create something rather than finish something.

They (HF's) all work hard but the Kerry lads cause more problems, are more direct and ultimately create more space for their guys inside. We don't have the players to do that in an attacking sense and that's why we'll never be a team to blow away "lesser" teams.

But Kerry won't have it as easy come the business end, they easily controlled the game from MF the last day. If we struggle through to face them later in the year, it'll be a good contest.

Oldtree

Bookies have:

Clare at 4/1 to win
Mayo at 1/4 to win
Draw at 10/1

That's a huge level of confidence shown compared to what they they have for:

Roscommon at 5/2 to win
Galway at 4/9 to win
Draw at 15/2

And we all know what's going to happen there

yop

Am I the only one to this if Rossies forwards click they will destroy that Galway backline? If K McLaughs can push away their back to score a goal then the Rossies will go to down on them. Though it could be a shoot out. I haven't taken a lot of heed of Roscommon but the assumption that Galway have it in the bag is fatal?

Oldtree

yop wrote: »

Am I the only one to this if Rossies forwards click they will destroy that Galway backline? If K McLaughs can push away their back to score a goal then the Rossies will go to down on them. Though it could be a shoot out. I haven't taken a lot of heed of Roscommon but the assumption that Galway have it in the bag is fatal?

Ok so, not all of us know what's going to happen there

yop

Oldtree wrote: »

Ok so, not all of us know what's going to happen there

I could be very much wrong!
If K McLaughlins who is a light lad can push aside your fullback like that they you put a big lad inside and hammer him all day. Not that simple of course as you need to get ball into him, but after seeing that Galway back line against Kildare and Mayo they are vulnerable.

seligehgit

Roscommon are been written in all quarters,complacency and overconfidence on Galway's part is the only way I can see Roscommon coming out on top irrespective of the vulnerabilities of the Galway full back line.

Oldtree

The running alone that Galway did in our match inspires confidence. Can't see Roscommon keeping up to that pace.

Utopia Parkway

yop wrote: »

Am I the only one to this if Rossies forwards click they will destroy that Galway backline? If K McLaughs can push away their back to score a goal then the Rossies will go to down on them. Though it could be a shoot out. I haven't taken a lot of heed of Roscommon but the assumption that Galway have it in the bag is fatal?

The Roscommon defence is not exactly Fort Knox either though.

Kalyke

Any news on the Mayo team..?

jam83

yop wrote: »

I could be very much wrong!
If K McLaughlins who is a light lad can push aside your fullback like that they you put a big lad inside and hammer him all day. Not that simple of course as you need to get ball into him, but after seeing that Galway back line against Kildare and Mayo they are vulnerable.

The Galway full back isnt that bad or lightweight. McLaughlin held off David wynne as far as I remember, who's been dropped. He was wingback against Mayo.
Galway back line were vulnerable alright at times in the first half against mayo. But if mcloughlin held off any county full back then the knives would be out....

TCDStudent1

jam83 wrote: »

The Galway full back isnt that bad or lightweight. McLaughlin held off David wynne as far as I remember, who's been dropped. He was wingback against Mayo.
Galway back line were vulnerable alright at times in the first half against mayo. But if mcloughlin held off any county full back then the knives would be out....

Yeah it was Wynne

kupus

On the rossies!!

interlocked

Praying for a funeral
06 JULY 2017

MAYO NEWS

Edwin McGreal



It has been a tough week in Breaffy, in Castlebar and for everyone who knew and loved David Gavin.
And still we wait, hoping for news that we could never have imagined we would wish for.
We’re praying for David Gavin’s funeral, praying his body is found. Those are words none of us in Breaffy ever thought we’d utter but all that changed when the devastating news broke last Saturday morning that David was missing, feared drowned, after getting into difficulty in a lake in British Colombia, Canada.
It has been a traumatic few days since for everyone in Breaffy but, much more so, for David’s family, his girlfriend Ciara, and his many, many friends.
David was one of the nicest guys you could meet. You would do well to find anyone with a bad word to say about him. He was pleasant, a gentleman to his fingertips. One of life’s good guys that you consider yourself lucky to know. It is why we were all just stopped in our tracks last Saturday morning. Life suddenly felt so cruel, so unfair.
And what started as news that was difficult to comprehend, news that David had lost his life, has become harder still as the search for his body continues.
There have been some particularly tough times in recent days. When news emerged on Tuesday that the official underwater search at Kin Basket Lake was being stood down, that was devastating news for David’s family and friends at the scene and everyone at home.
But that same Tuesday evening, everyone’s hearts were lifted by the incredible response to a fundraising campaign set up by David’s friends in the ISSC club in Vancouver. We could scarcely believe it as money poured in from all over the world. The response was phenomenal. Now it stands at over $180,000 (over €120,000) and counting.
Along with being a spectacular show of support to the Gavin family, it also now becomes a vital help in enabling the search to continue.
Later today, the underwater research will resume. It has to be sourced privately and will not be cheap. It will continue, hopefully, until David is found. However, it is possible that more will be needed to continue the search and every single contribution makes it more and more likely that David will be found and can come home.
David’s parents Michael and Angela, his sister Aoife and girlfriend Ciara are in our thoughts all the time. How we as Breaffy GAA clubmates of David are feeling is nothing in comparison to their suffering.
We think too of David’s friends out in Canada, among them Paul Sweeney, another clubmate of ours in Breaffy who was with him at the time of the tragedy. Paul has done more than could be asked of anyone in the days since.
David’s friends from home, Mark Towey and Emmet Gill, were at the scene since Friday too, going there as soon as they heard. And all of those who are out there, family and friends, from home, and who David met in Vancouver, are in all of our thoughts. Enduring the long, indefinite search cannot be easy. We will forever be in their debt.
All associated with ISSC in Vancouver have been amazing. The spirit of the gael carries far and wide and never has that been more apparent than in recent days.
Last night (Wednesday) in Breaffy, the GAA club held a support Mass in the clubhouse. Hundreds filed through the doors to stand with David’s family, friends, teammates and clubmates. People who had felt helpless had an outlet to show their support and they came in their droves to stand with the family.
On-field rivalries were left to one side as clubmen and players from neighbouring clubs came too. Great gaels like Kiltane’s Richie Cosgrove and Lacken’s Charlie Collins travelled a long way to be there too.
It is at times like this that we see the best of people in this country.
The Mass was surreal in a way, like a wake without a body. But it was an opportunity for solidarity, for people to stand together, that nobody was alone in their suffering. It was cathartic.
We all left at the end of the night, with some saying ‘I’m sure I’ll see you again in the next few days’. We knew what that meant. We hope and pray it comes to pass.

The fundraising link is: https://www.gofundme.com/emergency-supporting-david-gavin

In the midst of such heartbreak, something truly special is happening, in just over 48 hours, nearly 4000 people have donated over €137,000 and counting, in a effort to find David and bring him home. The Gavin's and Ciara have a county at their back, please God they succeed.

MaroonAndGreen

Mayo team expected to be named tonight I believe. Can't read too much into it as we all know but it does add to the excitement a little. Expecting another very close game again, hopefully our big men (Keegan, O'Shea and O'Connor) put in big performances for us again as I think we'll need it. It's our first away game in the qualifiers in years, as we would count Croke Park as neutral.

Regarding Galway and Roscommon, they drew last year, Roscommon are a bit under the radar now with nobody expecting them to win and to be honest Galway stumbled over the line against a team with 14 men for 50 minutes. I'm expecting a very close game.

Oldtree

yop wrote: »

I could be very much wrong!
If K McLaughlins who is a light lad can push aside your fullback like that they you put a big lad inside and hammer him all day. Not that simple of course as you need to get ball into him, but after seeing that Galway back line against Kildare and Mayo they are vulnerable.

I look forward to seeing if your analysis is right. I will be shouting for Roscommon, albeit from an armchair

Oldtree

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

Mayo team expected to be named tonight I believe. Can't read too much into it as we all know but it does add to the excitement a little. Expecting another very close game again, hopefully our big men (Keegan, O'Shea and O'Connor) put in big performances for us again as I think we'll need it. It's our first away game in the qualifiers in years, as we would count Croke Park as neutral.

We need all guns blazing from word go so I'm hoping it's not as close as you think it will be as that's just too close at this stage.

I'd like to see how Caolan Crowe would play for a full championship game . He is a big lad and strong, he looks ready to go.
And of course Donal, until he drops.

Over_the_waves

I honestly wouldn't shout for Roscommon if they were playing Rangers, those buachailloos have a serious chip on their shoulder when it comes to the green and red.

Clare will be a tough challenge if we don't get a good start tomorrow evening. Lately, we've developed the unwelcome habit of starting the game ten minutes later than the opposition, and against a side with a few nifty forwards and a decent midfield, we don't want to leave ourselves chasing the game again.

Mayo by 3, hopefully.

yop

Oldtree wrote: »

I look forward to seeing if your analysis is right. I will be shouting for Roscommon, albeit from an armchair

It could be more Anal than analysis on my part! Pundits give Rossies no chance.

Cheeky tenner on Rossies, Meath and Clare!!!

Oldtree

Over_the_waves wrote: »

I honestly wouldn't shout for Roscommon.

So you are going to shout for Galway then, or
Is your granny from Galway?
It would be a beautiful thing for Roscommon to win imo.

Go Roscommon......!