Mayo GAA Discussion Part 2

TCDStudent1

PressRun wrote: »

I think Doherty deserves a start at corner forward. I watched the game back yesterday and I thought he made a huge difference when he came on. He added pace and he is very physical and strong. His turnovers and tackling are brilliant.
Wouldn't mind seeing Loftus start in place of Andy, but I wouldn't be surprised if he comes on later when Andy has done enough.
Midfield​ is and always has been Aidan O'Shea's best position.

If Rochford doesnt start Loftus and Mayo forwards play like they did last Saturday, he will be crucified by Mayo fans!

cocoman

Pure tashte wrote: »

As far as I know, the winners of 3A qualifiers play either Cork or (most likely) Roscommon. I suppose if Roscommon win, Mayo will have to play Cork as they have already played Galway?

Correct. Neutral venues for round 4. If cork then may possibly be played in Limerick. If Rossies then maybe Salthill
Might be Croke Park if suitable for double header. Played Westmeath in CP last year.

km79

cocoman wrote: »

Correct. Neutral venues for round 4. If cork then may possibly be played in Limerick. If Rossies then maybe Salthill
Might be Croke Park if suitable for double header. Played Westmeath in CP last year.

U2 concerts

MaroonAndGreen

PressRun wrote:

I think Doherty deserves a start at corner forward. I watched the game back yesterday and I thought he made a huge difference when he came on. He added pace and he is very physical and strong. His turnovers and tackling are brilliant. Wouldn't mind seeing Loftus start in place of Andy, but I wouldn't be surprised if he comes on later when Andy has done enough. Midfield​ is and always has been Aidan O'Shea's best position.

The thing with Loftus is... he did finish a cracker of a goal and floated a lovely point. But they were just purely good finishing and nothing more, let's not get carried away with him.. can he win his own ball in corner forward at this level? That's unproven yet, and it's crucial. Can he hold onto possession under tough tackling from a Dublin, Tyrone, Kerry, Donegal defender? These are the bigger questions. He deserves his chance for us to find out these answers though and I hope he gets it.

cocoman

km79 wrote: »

U2 concerts

Never thought of U2. You must have tickets
That could be tricky if Mayo win on Saturday!!

PressRun

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

The thing with Loftus is... he did finish a cracker of a goal and floated a lovely point. But they were just purely good finishing and nothing more, let's not get carried away with him.. can he win his own ball in corner forward at this level? That's unproven yet, and it's crucial. Can he hold onto possession under tough tackling from a Dublin, Tyrone, Kerry, Donegal defender? These are the bigger questions. He deserves his chance for us to find out these answers though and I hope he gets it.

Well, the only way of knowing is by trying. Like I said, I wouldn't mind seeing him start in place of Andy and see how he gets on, bring in Andy if he's ​struggling. But likewise, I wouldn't​ be surprised if they decide to start with Andy and finish the game with Loftus either. If Loftus is someone who will struggle to win his own ball, bringing him in later when the game has opened up a bit might suit him better.

mayo.mick

Yeah, my reading of it is if the rossies win, we'll be playing Cork, back in ennis? ( IF IF IF we beat Clare) . Croker is out of action for All Ireland championship football on the 22nd.

Shurimgreat

I can't see Rossies beating Galway. Very mixed year so far for Rossies, while Galway are bang in form.

So likely Mayo v Rossies? In Salthill?

Big one for McStay/McHale, they'd love to beat Mayo, but I think Mayo will have too much for them. After that things will get tough.

(If we beat Clare)

Oldtree

Shurimgreat wrote: »

(If we beat Clare)

When........ not if

PARlance

PressRun wrote: »

I think Doherty deserves a start at corner forward. I watched the game back yesterday and I thought he made a huge difference when he came on. He added pace and he is very physical and strong. His turnovers and tackling are brilliant.
Wouldn't mind seeing Loftus start in place of Andy, but I wouldn't be surprised if he comes on later when Andy has done enough.
Midfield​ is and always has been Aidan O'Shea's best position.

I was calling for Andy to be an impact sub after getting home from the match but I've watched it a couple of times since and I'll retract that.

He wasn't as bad as I thought. In fact, most of what was good came through his movement in the first half. I think it's better for the team to start him. But I would be introducing Doherty for him at around 50 mins.

It was great to see Doherty come on and play good but the context is key, Derry were goosed in extra time.

I think Loftus has to be given his chance now. There is little to lose and a whole pile to gain if he steps up.

MaroonAndGreen

PARlance wrote:

I think Loftus has to be given his chance now. There is little to lose and a whole pile to gain if he steps up.

Very true

MaroonAndGreen

Just about to fully rewatch the game myself now, felt crazy at the time watching it, will be interesting to get this second perspective

PressRun

PARlance wrote: »

I was calling for Andy to be an impact sub after getting home from the match but I've watched it a couple of times since and I'll retract that.

He wasn't as bad as I thought. In fact, most of what was good came through his movement in the first half. I think it's better for the team to start him. But I would be introducing Doherty for him at around 50 mins.

It was great to see Doherty come on and play good but the context is key, Derry were goosed in extra time.

I think Loftus has to be given his chance now. There is little to lose and a whole pile to gain if he steps up.

I didn't think Andy played particularly badly at the time, but if he is going to be subbed, bringing him on for Loftus or having Loftus come on for him could be a good way of addressing that.
Derry were goosed in extra time, which put a gloss on everyone's performance, but I think Doherty's physicality and his ability to win dirty ball and hold onto it is actually sorely undervalued by a lot of Mayo supporters. He's one of our best ball winners and tacklers. There was also a time when he was a great goal scorer, but moving him to the half forwards kind of reduced his impact there.

Bunny Colvin

The dilemma we have at the moment is in the forwards and its been our undoing for a while.

Aidan O'Shea at number 8 would allow us to get an extra body in there.

Doherty..Diarmuid..McLoughin

Andy..Cillian..Loftus

The three half forwards have plenty of work rate in them and can deliver good ball. Full forward line has scores in them. MaroonandGreen made a good point about Loftus: he got two crucial scores when we needed them but that shouldn't make him the second coming. I'd like to see him given a chance but there shouldn't be too much pressure heaped on him. I wouldn't write off Regan yet either, he's a good player, if the shots he took against Galway went over then he'd be looked at different - very small margains at this level.

PARlance

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

Just about to fully rewatch the game myself now, felt crazy at the time watching it, will be interesting to get this second perspective

Will be interesting to see what you think of Andy. I did a complete U turn. We suffer with the transition into attack at the best of times, having an outlet like him in the first half, when teams / defences are a bit more rigid, is invaluable. He must be a joy to play with.

He has been so good over the last 12-14 months that I think we've started to take it for granted. I did the last day.

Oldtree

Derry seemed to drop an extra man back very quickly for their kickouts that caught us betwixt and between with a lot if pointing going on rather than marking. Need to watch that.

Bunny Colvin

PARlance wrote: »

Will be interesting to see what you think of Andy. I did a complete U turn. We suffer with the transition into attack at the best of times, having an outlet like him in the first half, when teams / defences are a bit more rigid, is invaluable. He must be a joy to play with.

He has been so good over the last 12-14 months that I think we've started to take it for granted. I did the last day.

There was a couple of times in the first half where he made a good run but his marker just beat him for pace. The problem is that often he's the only forward making runs close to goal.

PressRun

Bunny Colvin wrote: »

The dilemma we have at the moment is in the forwards and its been our undoing for a while.

Aidan O'Shea at number 8 would allow us to get an extra body in there.

Doherty..Diarmuid..McLoughin

Andy..Cillian..Loftus

The three half forwards have plenty of work rate in them and can deliver good ball. Full forward line has scores in them. MaroonandGreen made a good point about Loftus: he got two crucial scores when we needed them but that shouldn't make him the second coming. I'd like to see him given a chance but there shouldn't be too much pressure heaped on him. I wouldn't write off Regan yet either, he's a good player, if the shots he took against Galway went over then he'd be looked at different - very small margains at this level.

Is anyone making him the second coming though? I think people are just suggesting he should be given a shot the next day and see what he can do. We're constantly complaining that we don't have enough up front, so why not give him a try?

On second viewing of the match, I thought our halfbacks weren't overly impressive. I don't think Colm Boyle had a notion of what he was at half the time and Paddy lost his man more than once (despite kicking a great score). Lee was obviously given license to bomb forward, which I'm all for, but there seemed a serious lack of awareness about our halfbacks at times.

PARlance

Bunny Colvin wrote: »

I wouldn't write off Regan yet either, he's a good player, if the shots he took against Galway went over then he'd be looked at different - very small margains at this level.

Very small margins indeed but the question I would have is, has Rochford written him off?

He wasn't bringing him on when we badly needed a few scores the last day. For me that's one of two things:

1. Rochford had a big issue with his shot selections against Galway or
2. Rochford was "protecting" him by not allowing him to be the villian again.

Bunny Colvin

PressRun wrote: »

Is anyone making him the second coming though? I think people are just suggesting he should be given a shot the next day and see what he can do. We're constantly complaining that we don't have enough up front, so why not give him a try?

I think there's a bit of hype around him after his cameo on Saturday alright. That tends to happen.

I'm fully on for starting him against Clare btw, I think he's earned it and giving our shooting the last day, I don't see how anyone could have any complaints.

PARlance wrote: »

Very small margins indeed but the question I would have is, has Rochford written him off?

He wasn't bringing him on when we badly needed a few scores the last day. For me that's one of two things:

1. Rochford had a big issue with his shot selections against Galway or
2. Rochford was "protecting" him by not allowing him to be the villian again.

It's hard to know but Rochford at least trusted him to come on in Salthill. Himself and Loftus are scoring forwards which is something we lack so hopefully they can contribute.

seligehgit

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

Just about to fully rewatch the game myself now, felt crazy at the time watching it, will be interesting to get this second perspective

For the love of God and your own sanity don't watch it!:D

seligehgit

Bunny Colvin wrote: »

The dilemma we have at the moment is in the forwards and its been our undoing for a while.

Aidan O'Shea at number 8 would allow us to get an extra body in there.

Doherty..Diarmuid..McLoughin

Andy..Cillian..Loftus

The three half forwards have plenty of work rate in them and can deliver good ball. Full forward line has scores in them. MaroonandGreen made a good point about Loftus: he got two crucial scores when we needed them but that shouldn't make him the second coming. I'd like to see him given a chance but there shouldn't be too much pressure heaped on him. I wouldn't write off Regan yet either, he's a good player, if the shots he took against Galway went over then he'd be looked at different - very small margains at this level.

TBH I'd have serious question marks over him at this stage from what I have seen of him.He struggled greatly to win his own ball inside during the course of the league this year and he's had ample opportunities to prove himself.But I think he will remain part of our options due to a paucity of alternatives.

Re Conor Loftus,he's been very unlucky with injuries but has during the course of rather limited match time shown great promise.On other days he's been largely anonymous.

It would be foolhardy in the extreme to believe that he's likely to be the panacea to all our ills up front in the short term based on his brilliant cameo.Perhaps he will be but more likely will be a significant addition into the future.

Aidan O Shea will need another big performance on Saturday to counter the talented midfielder that is Gary Brennan.

MaroonAndGreen

Anyways, despite above concerns for my health and sanity... I just rewatched the game!

I'm gona split this into two halves. Derry went in 8-7 up at half-time. They had missed 2-4 and we had missed 0-10, with some of our chances being embarrassingly easy. I'm not gona complain with the half time score, fair play to Derry.

There was a shooting confidence problem even in the first half though, Durcan and Parsons both twice each refused shots that should have been put over. Caff had a difficult enough opening to the half, but came into it a lot more as it went on and in fact had a superb second half up until Derry's 70th minute goal! Harrison and O'Shea were fantastic in the first half, cant stress O'Shea's contribution enough. As for Andy Moran, he played well, won his ball and kicked a couple of points.

As for the second half, wow. We missed 3-11 of clear scoring opportunities, Derry missed 7 points. Kevin McLoughlin looked like he was having a crisis of confidence, he accounted for 0-5 of the wides we kicked. The game should not have been a contest. Our forward play right up to the finishing was actually very good as was our defending, only conceding 5 points for 35 minutes in the second half. We also completely dominated from 50mins onwards.

Parsons (other than his wayward finishing) was brillliant and actually had a few great marks, a rule which appears to be working out really well IMO. Also before Loftus' goal, Durcan kicked an inspirational score with outside of the boot from 45 yards, considering the misses before and time on the clock it was sensational and I thought it deserved a mention.

We also take it for granted but Cillian kicked some huge frees, some of which were not easy at all, and were crucial with how close the game turned out to be. Lee Keegan, another man that we may be starting to take for granted nowadays too was exceptional IMO.

Extra-time, not much to say on it to be honest, just absolutely steamrolled them. Same as we did from 50mins onwards except in extra time we didnt miss our shots. Fair play to Doherty too, showed composure with his shooting.

After rewatching, I'm not overly concerned about the Clare game, as bad shooting can be fixed. It can be purely confidence on the day and we know these lads are good enough to be putting the ball over the bar. All in all, we were far superior to Derry on the day, and no matter how much the RTE commentary tried to make out Derry deserved their lead, they didnt, it was completely against the run of play.

Maigh Eo Abú, the long road continues. See ye in Ennis!

TommyDe

MaroonAndGreen wrote:

After rewatching, I'm not overly concerned about the Clare game, as bad shooting can be fixed. It can be purely confidence on the day and we know these lads are good enough to be putting the ball over the bar.

Super round up of the game.

I'll disagree on the quoted point. Our shooting and shot selection is getting worse.
There can be no excuse for bad shooting as it cost us dearly in many games. And missing 3-21 in scoring opportunities is very worrying and not just a bad day at the office.
I feel this is the confidence issue ever present under the skin of this squad. A lad like loftus (with Reagan replacing moran) could bring the confidence back
We should not be relying on our half backs to drag us back into games. It's the forwards who need to up their shooting game.

AOS should be nowhere else but midfield. But we need a sweeper to cover that area because he can't keep up with a fast runner and leaves a massive hole through the middle that teams exploit.

seligehgit

So the consensus without doubt seems to be that Aidan O Shea and Tom Parsons start in the middle with Seamie on the bench with a third man dropping back to ensure Aidan's lack of mobility is not exposed?

TBH on the current form Seamie does not deserve to start.

MaroonAndGreen

seligehgit wrote: »

So the consensus without doubt seems to be that Aidan O Shea and Tom Parsons start in the middle with Seamie on the bench with a third man dropping back to ensure Aidan's lack of mobility is not exposed?

TBH on the current form Seamie does not deserve to start.

I think so yes. Vaughan is not the answer either, his lack of mobility going back towards his own goal left us open on occasions too.

PARlance

seligehgit wrote: »

So the consensus without doubt seems to be that Aidan O Shea and Tom Parsons start in the middle with Seamie on the bench with a third man dropping back to ensure Aidan's lack of mobility is not exposed?

TBH on the current form Seamie does not deserve to start.

I had a laugh at that. Not at your post but just at football in general and how quickly things can change.

Seamus was on fire for Breaffy only a few weeks ago. Form of his life stuff supposedly. On the other hand, Coen was said to have absolutely cleaned Aidan in the last league game. Aidan was meant to be out for the summer before Saturday. I don't think many would have said Seamus' place was in danger.

It's a funny old game. But I agree, has to be Aidan and Tom in midfield.

Fowler87

PARlance wrote: »

I had a laugh at that. Not at your post but just at football in general and how quickly things can change.

Seamus was on fire for Breaffy only a few weeks ago. Form of his life stuff supposedly. On the other hand, Coen was said to have absolutely cleaned Aidan in the last league game. Aidan was meant to be out for the summer before Saturday. I don't think many would have said Seamus' place was in danger.

It's a funny old game. But I agree, has to be Aidan and Tom in midfield.

Apparently Loftus was taken off for Crossmolina too after having a shocker in recent club game. Just shows you cant read everything into how the club scene goes.. good or bad

TCDStudent1

Fowler87 wrote: »

Apparently Loftus was taken off for Crossmolina too after having a shocker in recent club game. Just shows you cant read everything into how the club scene goes.. good or bad

Some of my Mayo friends who would be well clued in on Mayo have told me he has really struggled for form in the last year, including at club level.

My guess is that Evan Regan was showing better form in training in the run up to the Galway game. His poor performance there meant that Loftus got the nod to come on in the Derry game. Loftus took his chance, Regan didnt. So Loftus should be ahead of him now.

MaroonAndGreen

Fowler87 wrote:

Apparently Loftus was taken off for Crossmolina too after having a shocker in recent club game. Just shows you cant read everything into how the club scene goes.. good or bad

Was actually about to reply and say this too, supposed to be struggling at club level. Look it, if lads are struggling to be motivated or anything back at their clubs I can't blame them. Playing for the club probably isn't as romantic a thing as it's made out to be when your dealing with a top class county set up 95% of the time.