Quick question

bunnystalker

Hi all
I ordered a cheap lazer pointer on the internet last January it never arrived I got back onto the company and they send me another one. I called the post office gave them the tracker number and they informed me that customs have held my parcel since last month I called them and left a message. They returned a message and said that under the fire arms act it had been destroyed. Just like that, no letter no phone call Can they do that ? Any help would be appreciated Thanks.

garv123

Any link to what you got to see what it is exactly.

certain types of laser pointers over a certain strength are illegal apparently.

Airsoft forum might get you more answers.

Cass

Have a read of this thread and this one.

I'm not sure of any law, as said in those threads, about laser pointers (in that i don't know of one that exists, let alone one that is applicable) and importing them. First call should be to customs asking for a written reason as why the products were destroyed, what legislation they used to do this, and a receipt for the items themselves as i'd be looking into pursuing this if they done so on a policy rather than law.

bravestar

I can't remember the exact law but there is restrictions about what kind a of laser a person can own. I'm guessing it fell foul of that law. It's to do with the power or frequency or something like that.

tac foley

Lasers – A response from the DoJ

By THEIIA on May 31, 2008

We recently published our stance on the legality of lasers with regard to the fitting of them to airsoft devices, we have also been in regular contact with the Department of Justice in an effort to get clarification on this. On the 29th May we received a response and have now been given permission to publish that response as below:

“We have reviewed the material sent in
by IAA, been out to an airsoft retailer and taken a look at the lasers, and
have contacted the technical section in Garda HQ. Following all that we
are today in a position to advise anyone making enquiries on the sale or
use of laser equipment in conjuction with airsoft that:

(i) Lasers of less than 5 milli Watts in the light frequencies of 630 to
680nm would not be
considered to be firearms in accordance with Section 1(d) of the Firearms
Act 1925 as amended. Accordingly, should you attach that strength of laser
to airsoft with a muzzle energy of less than 1 joule, the status of both
the laser and airsoft remain outside the definition of a firearm.

(ii) I draw your attention to Section 1(g)(i) of the Firearms Act 1925 as
amended which provides that the definition of a firearm includes;

(i) telescope sights with a light beam, or telescope
sights with an electronic light amplification
device or an infra-red device, designed to be fitted
to a firearm specified in paragraph (a), (b),(c) or (e),

Accordingly such (telescope sights with infra-red device, etc) should be
specifically designed only for use with non – firearms.”

tac

Cass

According to the two threads i linked to above a laser pointer does not fall under that category (firearm) as it's not designed to fit to or (and only assuming here) going to be fitted to a firearm.

The only other restriction would be the strength, but as i said above and in the threads i could not find an Irish law on the subject only an EU directive.

TBH it sounds like someone that has made a decision based on poor information or a lack of understanding. Of course i could also be wrong.

bunnystalker

Thanks a million lads for the replys,

I,m after calling them just there and I,m waiting for them to get back to me as it,s only a voice mail. I,ll let yea know how I get on. Here is a link below to the one I ordered. Any more advice will be greatly appreciated


dx.com/p/adjustable-5mw-532nm-green-light-aluminum-alloy-laser-pointer-pen-black-1-x-18650-347353#.VeApCZeuTTE

Thanks again
Christy

bunnystalker

Well the postman has just been, and the letter from customs reads,
1 green laser pointer was sized by me pursuant to Section 202 of the Customs Consolidation Act on 30/7/2015

The said goods being liable to forfeiture under Section 177 of the Customs Consolidation Act, 1876
Signed and dated 26/08/2015

So I suppose thats the end of that. ?

What a load of Boll** :mad:

Thanks again

Gatling

bunnystalker wrote: »

Thanks a million lads for the replys,

I,m after calling them just there and I,m waiting for them to get back to me as it,s only a voice mail. I,ll let yea know how I get on. Here is a link below to the one I ordered. Any more advice will be greatly appreciated


dx.com/p/adjustable-5mw-532nm-green-light-aluminum-alloy-laser-pointer-pen-black-1-x-18650-347353#.VeApCZeuTTE

Thanks again
Christy

Coming from airsoft I can tell you there's no come back on this .
One of the issues isn't just 5mw the fact it's a green laser which can cause damage to the human eye or animals just as much, green lasers have all been a No No for a while been there mass produced in China I'd be surprised if they are even tested to be certified 5mw or lower

Cass

bunnystalker wrote: »

1 green laser pointer was sized by me pursuant to Section 202 of the Customs Consolidation Act on 30/7/2015

That is about their right to seize goods, and what goods.

The said goods being liable to forfeiture under Section 177 of the Customs Consolidation Act, 1876
Signed and dated 26/08/2015

That is about seizure of goods where duty is not paid. It refers to the UK, which we are no longer part of (we were when the act was written) and says nothing about the ability to pay duty on arrival.

So I suppose thats the end of that. ?

What a load of Boll** :mad:

Thanks again

It's up to yourself, but at the cost of a letter i'd ask for the specific firearms legislation that bans laser pointers.

Gatling wrote: »

Coming from airsoft I can tell you there's no come back on this .

How so?

I cannot find, and since the threads linked to above in 2011, still have not found any legislation and none in the firearms act that says a hand held laser pointer is illegal.

Have you found such legislation, anywhere?

Gatling

Cass wrote: »

That is about their right to seize goods, and what goods.


That is about seizure of goods where duty is not paid. It refers to the UK, which we are no longer part of (we were when the act was written) and says nothing about the ability to pay duty on arrival.

It's up to yourself, but at the cost of a letter i'd ask for the specific firearms legislation that bans laser pointers.

How so?

I cannot find, and since the threads linked to above in 2011, still have not found any legislation and none in the firearms act that says a hand held laser pointer is illegal.

Have you found such legislation, anywhere?

See tac's post in the thread

Cass

I did, and your reply is the same as his, and neither state what law having a laser point breaks.

They only reference what would be a firearm under the definition of the act, but as a laser pointer does not fall under that definition then it's not a firearm. Secondly any such item only falls under the definition if fitted to a firearm. There are exceptions in the form of NV scopes, laser designed scopes, etc. that are classified as firearms whether fitted to a firearm or not, but as a laser pointer is not a telscope or telescopic sight then it does not meet the definition.

Secondly the DoJ are not the best to refer to in terms f their understanding of the laws they create. Between them and An Gardaí this forum is full of instances where the law has been misunderstood, misinterpreted or simply made up (a young lad having his rifle & regular rifle scope seized while out hunting because the Garda thought the scope needed a separate license to own).

Thirdly, and once again, what law does it break? Everyone is stating they're illegal, and banned. No one has thus far been able to point to a specific piece of legislation that directly or indirectly names hand held or non firearm mounted laser pointers (not to be confused with scopes with built in devices).

Witcher

Those limits given by the DoJ are the safe limits of lasers, anything more powerful can cause damage to your eye and so I think they're invoking the CJA 2006 here, specifically:

“ firearm ” means—

[...]

(d) any type of stun gun or other weapon for causing any shock or other disablement to a person by means of electricity or any other kind of energy emission.

They're not too fond of lasers lately with people using them on aircraft etc.

Gatling

Look at the laser classification listed in tacs post 630-680 nm are not considered as firearms but the op's listed laser is listed as 520nm .

That maybe the actual issue in this case

Cass

Strider wrote: »

Those limits given by the DoJ are the safe limits of lasers, anything more powerful can cause damage to your eye and so I think they're invoking the CJA 2006 here, specifically:.

That would seem to make sense but they don't name or reference that section or act. Even at that it's a stretch.

Gatling wrote: »

Look at the laser classification listed in tacs post 630-680 nm are not considered as firearms but the op's listed laser is listed as 520nm .

That maybe the actual issue in this case

They said "in accordance with section ............ " however that section does not state or specify any particular strength or wavelength, merely the use of scopes/telescopes with NV, laser emitting features. Also they've got that piece wrong. It's actually section 4(1)(g)(i) of the 1990 Firearms & Offensive weapons Act 1990.

I'm not trying to be argumentative for the sake of it, but too often people are given a wrong or spurious piece of legislation and in this case none of what was quoted makes any sense or more specifically does not deal with the issue and therefore does not back up their assertion for seizing or destroying the item.

bunnystalker

I,ve sent customs an email,
Now just waiting their reply,

I,ll post the reply they send me. Should be good for a laugh

But on a good note it,s almost Deer season

bunnystalker

Well I got my reply from customs and it says ,

In reply to your email these items were handed over to ComReg at the beginning Of August. You should contact them.

Well I did just that, and they told me to contact Customs International as they couldnt answer any of my questions . Ive no doubt Im pis*ing in the wind, but tiz like someone said where is the legislation that says I cant have one.

Cass

It sounds like they took them, destroyed them, and were not expecting someone to actually push for an answer.

I'd keep at it, and don't cite any legislation like above and tip your hand. I'd write back to the organisations with the reply from the ones they steered you to and insist on an actual answer and not "passing the buck".

bunnystalker

well I did just that and got my reply today, I copied and pasted

Thanks for your email. The green laser pointer is prohibited under Section 4 (1) of the Firearms & Offensive Weapons Act , 1990 includes the definition of a Firearm as follows:
(d) any type of stun gun or other weapon for causing any shock or other disablement to a person by means of electricity or any other kind of energy emission.

This item will not be released.

extremetaz

hmmm... I'm a little divided on this one.

One the one hand I'm delighted to see the department actually acting on the lasers issue, it's something that's been needed for a long time now.

On the other hand however, it's entirely the wrong legislative context for any such action.

In order for the above legislation to be applicable, the green laser would have to have been designed with the proposed application in mind. Otherwise electric fencers and strobe lights ought to fall foul of the same clause.

Now I don't, for one minute, want anybody to think that I'm actually in favour of people being able to get their hands on these things as casually as they currently can - they bloody shouldn't be, and frankly, ideally, bunnystalker should never have been in the situation where he though it was ok to purchase one without a justifiable reason for it - however, the fact of the matter is that green laser pointers are not a "weapon for causing any shock or other disablement to a person be means of ... energy emission" any more than a kitchen knife or a hurley are weapons for stabbing and beating.

They are a very effective tool in classrooms for highlighting text, they are a very effective tool for pointing out constellations in astronomy, they have application in boresighting firearms... there are many very valid, responsible and non-malicious uses for them and that is what they are designed for.

This is, in truth (for better or worse), a blantant misuse of legislation.

As such, I've no doubt you could challenge it - and were you to do so, we may even see some proper legislation arise from it. However, whether or not it's worth you while is an entirely different matter...

Sparks

bunnystalker wrote: »

well I did just that and got my reply today, I copied and pasted

Thanks for your email. The green laser pointer is prohibited under Section 4 (1) of the Firearms & Offensive Weapons Act , 1990 includes the definition of a Firearm as follows:
(d) any type of stun gun or other weapon for causing any shock or other disablement to a person by means of electricity or any other kind of energy emission.

This item will not be released.

Logitech are going to be awful upset they can't sell these anymore so. I might have to get a licence for mine. I suppose "presentations" counts as a good reason, but a gun safe seems a bit excessive...