Mediterranean migrants- specific questions

weisses · 09-09-2015 11:49am

Nodin wrote: »

He's Kurdish. Turkey is not a good place to be Kurdish at the moment.

Up to 20 million Kurdish people in Turkey

Are you suggesting they can all come over here (Europe) With a valid claim of being a refugee ?

Nodin · 09-09-2015 11:52am

weisses wrote: »

Up to 20 million Kurdish people in Turkey

Are you suggesting they can all come over here (Europe) With a valid claim of being a refugee ?

Many in Turkey certainly have a case.

foggy_lad · 09-09-2015 12:05pm

Jelle1880 wrote: »

I think it's fair to say though that Germany's stance will not halt this influx, on the contrary.

I saw a small part of Juncker's State of the European Union today (dude spoke for 72 mins, seriously...)

He made some decent points (asylum seekers should be able to work from day 1, migration should be completely legal with the benefit of cutting out human traffickers for large parts, strengthening Frontex,... but I can't see many countries agree to forced quotas.

That and the fact he seems eager to push TTIP through

This would create a situation 50 times worse with the populations of China and India travelling to Europe for a better life and to work once they applied for "asylum"

foggy_lad · 09-09-2015 12:07pm

Nodin wrote: »

Many in Turkey certainly have a case.

Nonsense, nobody in Turkey is persecuted in such a way that would entitle them to claim asylum elsewhere.

weisses · 09-09-2015 12:07pm

Nodin wrote: »

Many in Turkey certainly have a case.

Its all or no one I'm afraid ..... you are being persecuted as a Kurd or not

If you distinguish you could not claim he is a refugee because he is Kurdish as you did over various threads

Nodin · 09-09-2015 12:10pm

weisses wrote: »

Its all or no one I'm afraid ..... you are being persecuted as a Kurd or not

If you distinguish you could not claim he is a refugee because he is Kurdish as you did over various threads

A male in Northern Turkey can claim persecution and have good grounds for doing so. You might not like it, but c'est la vie.

weisses · 09-09-2015 12:14pm

Nodin wrote: »

A male in Northern Turkey can claim persecution and have good grounds for doing so. You might not like it, but c'est la vie.

But your man was not from Northern Turkey

You claimed over and over on various threads that because he was a Kurd he had all the reasons to flee as a refugee

Now its confined to a male in Northern Turkey who might have a case ... terrific

weisses · 09-09-2015 12:17pm

double post

Nodin · 09-09-2015 12:18pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

Nonsense, nobody in Turkey is persecuted in such a way that would entitle them to claim asylum elsewhere.

Despite some years which offered hope of a different attitude, it went back to square one -
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/sep/14/turkey-jail-journalists-kurdish-question
http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Kurdish-musician-in-Turkey-sentenced-to-10-years-in-prison-for-singing-in-Kurdish-402882

http://humanrightsturkey.org/2015/09/08/an-update-on-frederike-geerdink-case/

https://www.hrw.org/news/2015/07/30/dispatches-amid-rising-tensions-dangerous-moment-rights-turkey

Considering that up to twenty or so years ago, you could be dragged out of your bed by the Turkish police or Army and never seen again, I'd say some have great reason to be nervous.

Nodin · 09-09-2015 12:19pm

weisses wrote: »

But your man was not from Northern Turkey

You claimed over and over on various threads that because he was a Kurd he had all the reasons to flee as a refugee

Now its confined to a male in Northern Turkey who might have a case ... terrific

He was a Kurd in that area.....

halkar · 09-09-2015 12:36pm

Nodin wrote: »

Despite some years which offered hope of a different attitude, it went back to square one -
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/sep/14/turkey-jail-journalists-kurdish-question
http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Kurdish-musician-in-Turkey-sentenced-to-10-years-in-prison-for-singing-in-Kurdish-402882

http://humanrightsturkey.org/2015/09/08/an-update-on-frederike-geerdink-case/

https://www.hrw.org/news/2015/07/30/dispatches-amid-rising-tensions-dangerous-moment-rights-turkey

Considering that up to twenty or so years ago, you could be dragged out of your bed by the Turkish police or Army and never seen again, I'd say some have great reason to be nervous.

How many Kurds from Turkey passed to Greece on boats last 20 years prior to Syrian crisis?

The EU attitude to ME crises last 4-5 years has been "the problem is not a problem until it becomes a problem". There was very little help to Jordan, Turkey and Lebanon for the refugees. Now it became a problem and it is too late. There will be millions next year simply because they can get away with it. Last few months have been a great advertisement for human traffickers. They will be capitalising on this next year when the winter over.

weisses · 09-09-2015 12:38pm

Nodin wrote: »

He was a Kurd in that area.....

Was he persecuted there earlier ?

Is he detained now ? Was he in danger going back to Syria to bury his Family?

I think its No to all three

question still remains .. should Europe take in all the kurds ?

Travelling to the North of Turkey for a while seem to classify one as a valid refugee

surripere · 09-09-2015 12:40pm

Nodin wrote: »

Well you can't blame the EU and Germany for "this sorry mess" if the sorry mess was happening before Merkels offer to take them in.

Sure I can because this sorry mess (now I'm talking this mass migration as a whole, Libya etc. not just Syria refugees) is a direct consequence of certain member states loony asylum policy. It's no coincidence they are all making it like bandits for Germany & Scandinavia.

Nodin · 09-09-2015 12:42pm

weisses wrote: »

Was he persecuted there earlier ?

Is he detained now ? Was he in danger going back to Syria to bury his Family?

I think its No to all three

question still remains .. should Europe take in all the kurds ?

Travelling to the North of Turkey for a while seem to classify one as a valid refugee

Any reason you're not addressing the information in the articles I linked? Does that strike you as a normal situation?

weisses · 09-09-2015 2:28pm

Nodin wrote: »

Any reason you're not addressing the information in the articles I linked? Does that strike you as a normal situation?

Irrelevant links there regarding someone's refugee status

Nodin · 09-09-2015 3:19pm

weisses wrote: »

Irrelevant links there regarding someone's refugee status

It was stated, and I quote, "Nonsense, nobody in Turkey is persecuted in such a way that would entitle them to claim asylum elsewhere." This would appear to be false.

weisses · 09-09-2015 3:44pm

Nodin wrote: »

It was stated, and I quote, "Nonsense, nobody in Turkey is persecuted in such a way that would entitle them to claim asylum elsewhere." This would appear to be false.

Based on newspaper/opinion articles and a piece of a dutch journalist ?

FelineOverLord · 09-09-2015 7:08pm

I heard no news coverage mentioning the anniversary of 7/7 and we're only days away from the anniversary of 9/11 and no mention of that either. Curious that at a time when extremist Muslim organisations have declared war both on Europe and the people of Europe we hear no media mention of those 2 major acts of Muslim terrorism. Of course I'm sure that's not deliberate and that it has nothing at all to do with the open door no checks needed policy that Europe has adopted to allow hundreds of thousand of them into our countries.;)

oscarBravo · 09-09-2015 7:59pm

FelineOverLord wrote: »

I heard no news coverage mentioning the anniversary of 7/7...

Must have been uncomfortable under that rock.

FelineOverLord · 09-09-2015 10:17pm

oscarBravo wrote: »

Must have been uncomfortable under that rock.

That's a predictably typical response from you. You don't have a valid argument so you use your Mod status to fling insults at other posters and you'd be the first to issue a ban to a poster who did the same thing, sad really.

K-9 · 09-09-2015 10:30pm

Mod:

Leave the modding to the mods thank you, admins don't mod this forum BTW.

On that note, the thread has been exactly what we want for the most part and thank you to the posters for that. Keep posts relatively civil and respectful and everything will be fine.

Attack the content of the post, not the poster thank you.

oppenheimer1 · 09-09-2015 10:42pm

creeper1 wrote: »

the money in Ireland is gone. The last government spent it all so unfortunately we can't be helpful in this situation.

Should the Irish see cuts to their services to help migrants? I don't think so.

I Am curious if the philanthropist peregrinus would make any sacrifices himself towards the migrants.

Do you have a spare room for one of them?

Would you even be prepared to live next to a migrant family?

I somehow feel that in the case if Ireland's response to this crisis isn't really being driven by money - or the lack thereof in the Irish exchequer, but is simply a policy decision.

Over the past few weeks there have been shouts and calls for solidarity to be shown from both the UK and Ireland in helping to deal with this crisis, but notably both countries have been very restrained in the help they have chosen to offer. The mistake people are making is looking at this event in isolation - Ireland is still seeking a better deal on its bailout terms, while the UK is trying to renegotiate is relationship with the EU. The old adage of never waste a good crisis rings true here I feel.

I bet if there was movement on say shifting the bank debt onto the EFSF the EU would find that the Irish governments attitude to migrants would change.

oscarBravo · 09-09-2015 11:18pm

FelineOverLord wrote: »

You don't have a valid argument...

...says the poster who dragged 7/7 and 9/11 into a thread about a refugee crisis.

You'll have to excuse me if I don't look to you to set the standard for valid arguments.

Nodin · 10-09-2015 12:23am

weisses wrote: »

Based on newspaper/opinion articles and a piece of a dutch journalist ?

Human rights organisations and references to specific cases.

WakeUp · 10-09-2015 12:29am

halkar wrote: »

The EU attitude to ME crises last 4-5 years has been "the problem is not a problem until it becomes a problem". There was very little help to Jordan, Turkey and Lebanon for the refugees. Now it became a problem and it is too late. There will be millions next year simply because they can get away with it. Last few months have been a great advertisement for human traffickers. They will be capitalising on this next year when the winter over.

Yemen, the World’s Next Great Refugee Crisis

As the civil war heats up amid intervention by the Gulf monarchies, thousands are fleeing every day.

Many of the thousands of refugees now crossing from Greece and Hungary on their way to more welcoming countries such as Germany are Syrians and Kurds, fleeing the wars and political repression in the Levant. Another large refugee problem may now loom, which is unlikely to leave Europe unaffected. The war in Yemen, already highly destructive, may be getting hotter as it reaches an endgame, with the potential for putting a large proportion of its 24 million people—a slightly larger population than pre-war Syria—on the road (or, more likely, the seas).

Thousands are leaving every week, taking passage in cargo ships across the Red Sea to Djibouti and Somalia in the Horn of Africa, and then some are making their way north to places like Egypt. The only limiting factor so far has been the high cost of passage, but human traffickers are likely to set up shop on the Yemen coast if they smell money. The chaos in Libya makes it a favored launching place for Afro-Asian refugees attempting to get to Europe, and a stream of Yemenis could make their way to the Mediterranean coast.

If the Saudi-led coalition does manage to conquer Sana by main force and then go after the Houthi leadership in their traditional area of Saada, it will be the Zaydi Shiites’ (a third of the population) turn to flee in the tens or hundreds of thousands

http://www.thenation.com/article/yemen-the-worlds-next-great-refugee-crisis/

creeper1 · 10-09-2015 6:03am

According to the bbc, only 39% of those refused asylum are repatriated.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34190359

This is a massive pull factor for economic migrants. Even if it is determined they have no asylum case, there seems to be little that can be done to remove them.

jank · 10-09-2015 9:40am

Nodin wrote: »

I'm unaware of him doing so.

Update: Seemed to be blaming Canada for this loss now and it seems he never applied for any refugee status there either. As with these things, slowly the truth comes out.

Nodin · 10-09-2015 11:56am

jank wrote: »

Update: Seemed to be blaming Canada for this loss now and it seems he never applied for any refugee status there either. As with these things, slowly the truth comes out.

....whatever that means. The man has lost his family, I'd suggest that's the most important truth there.

jank · 10-09-2015 12:15pm

Nodin wrote: »

....whatever that means. The man has lost his family, I'd suggest that's the most important truth there.

Absolutely, so perhaps he should get a mirror....

johnnyskeleton · 10-09-2015 3:10pm

Mod note:

This thread has descended into blaming individuals and I dont see how such specific blaming is a political discussion.

So this thread can go one of three ways:
1) stays open and the topic at hand is discussed at the political level rather than targeting apecific individuals;

2) stays open but people who are dragging it off topic will be banned; or

3) it going to be closed, with or without bannings.

Lets all aim for door number 1!

Mediterranean migrants- specific questions

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