"Doing arts not a waste of your points"

Clandestine

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/going-to-college/doing-arts-is-not-a-waste-of-your-points-31455010.html

This seems like a lot of corporate speak to me, especially considering that I read on reddit today how courses for computer science have gone up more than 100 points. Is an arts course really that important in this day and age?

strelok

well when you fees are being paid by the state nothing is a waste of your points

do a six year course in advanced quilting, who gives a ****

whiskeyman

strelok wrote: »

do a six year course in advanced quilting, who gives a ****

Is every day a duvet day?

Dirty Dingus McGee

I have a BA in Finance and have a job.

Surely it's what you study that is far more important not actually the type of degree.

The Backwards Man

An Arts degree is the most stable and solid of the third level qualifications.
Things like Science and Engineering are wishy washy and change with the breeze, but Shakespeare will always be Shakespeare.

Jimoslimos

I lament what our Universities have become, mere skills training centres for multinationals. Ideally education in universities shouldn't be determined by what companies demand, i.e they should carry the burden of vocational training themselves.

Even with an Arts degree you should learn enough transferable skills, e.g., critical analysis to be of value to any employer. The more applied and specialised courses leave you vulnerable to changes in the industry. Why would an employer bother re-training you when there are a host of cheaper new graduates to choose from?

Anyway, t'would be a poorer world without people studying Classics, Ancient Irish history, Roman Architecture, etc., and I'm saying this as a Science graduate.

Clandestine

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

I have a BA in Finance and have a job.

Surely it's what you study that is far more important not actually the type of degree.

I think things like Economics, accounting etc. are considered arts degrees and are financially secure.

I think the lady in the article was referring more to degrees like English, fine arts, etc.

Clandestine

I actually want to share a small story from a book I've read.

The author was talking about a lecture he was giving to his class, where he gave each student a piece of paper. He told them to write down the 10 things they were planning to buy now or in the future, and the 10 degrees which seemed the most appealing to them.

On the list of items, the only things the students were writing down were items such as:
Video Games, TV, Phone, Mp3 Player, Computer, Car, petrol, DVD, clothes etc.

But on the list of degrees, he was getting this list:
Sociology, Journalism, Accounting, Psychology, Communications, Political Science, music, engineering, history, education

Basically, the students wanted all these items, but asides from a few people, weren't willing to study what was needed to create these things. They weren't willing to study what was actually in demand. People want nice TV's, and new computers - yet not enough people are actually willing to study the degree necessary to create them. Despite the fact that such a job would be secure and well paying, whilst a degree in communications for instance is neither.

Paramite Pie

The problem is that there are too many people with Arts degrees for the work that is available -- not everyone is going to become a lecturer.

hidinginthebush

Jimoslimos wrote: »

I lament what our Universities have become, mere skills training centres for multinationals. Ideally education in universities shouldn't be determined by what companies demand, i.e they should carry the burden of vocational training themselves.

Even with an Arts degree you should learn enough transferable skills, e.g., critical analysis to be of value to any employer. The more applied and specialised courses leave you vulnerable to changes in the industry. Why would an employer bother re-training you when there are a host of cheaper new graduates to choose from?

Anyway, t'would be a poorer world without people studying Classics, Ancient Irish history, Roman Architecture, etc., and I'm saying this as a Science graduate.

Of course you can say that as a science graduate, you can actually get a job!

jester77

I wandered lonely as a cloud and got an arts degree. Now I float, I'm high and spend my days selling daffodils.

smash

Arts degrees graduates: Jack of all trades, masters of none!

_Whimsical_

It really depends on what subjects you study for degree and how much work you put into it. I have friends who have become solicitors, barristers, law lecturers, journalists , psychologists and teachers after a BA. Most degrees require some further study after the initial degree these days, arts is usually one of those.
Arts gets a bad tap because very often it's been a slackers choice but it very much depends on the effort you put in yourself as to how useful it'll be too you in the long run.

Wolf Club

Clandestine wrote: »

I actually want to share a small story from a book I've read.

The author was talking about a lecture he was giving to his class, where he gave each student a piece of paper. He told them to write down the 10 things they were planning to buy now or in the future, and the 10 degrees which seemed the most appealing to them.

On the list of items, the only things the students were writing down were items such as:
Video Games, TV, Phone, Mp3 Player, Computer, Car, petrol, DVD, clothes etc.

But on the list of degrees, he was getting this list:
Sociology, Journalism, Accounting, Psychology, Communications, Political Science, music, engineering, history, education

Basically, the students wanted all these items, but asides from a few people, weren't willing to study what was needed to create these things. They weren't willing to study what was actually in demand. People want nice TV's, and new computers - yet not enough people are actually willing to study the degree necessary to create them. Despite the fact that such a job would be secure and well paying, whilst a degree in communications for instance is neither.

Anyone with any of the above degrees would be able to get a job if they were willing to work hard enough. I'd say a good lot of people working in marketing and PR would have a degree in communications.

lawred2

The Backwards Man wrote: »

An Arts degree is the most stable and solid of the third level qualifications.
Things like Science and Engineering are wishy washy and change with the breeze, but Shakespeare will always be Shakespeare.

Science and Engineering change with the breeze...

lol yeah... those goddamn laws of physics; always changing with the breeze

nyarlothothep

Ah the old arts vs science debate, I'm sure we won't hear any cliched (programmed?) responses or self important harumphing.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

nicki11

Yeah I did arts, (History and Geography) and would classify it as the biggest waste of my time and money in my life. The country is full of arts students and it is becoming, the new minimum (replacing the leaving cert) before I'd have no bother getting a job but now I compete with hundreds of arts students to get a job in tesco. It is difficult enough to get a job doing your degree (to support yourself) never mind when your done as unlike other degrees unless you do BA Connect theres little opportunity to get experience in the area. The only place is in teaching but theres only so many positions in college and schools and too many out of work people with the qualifications. A normal arts degree has very few marketable options (language, IT/Psychology studies) and of those the market is over saturated and the competition is fierce for places in those modules. Speaking to people in IT as well I've learned someone with a BA in IT is less likely then someone who just did IT as its alot more basic. If you want to go into social work or teaching arts is a good avenue but otherwise theres not a lot of options and you'd almost have to do a postgrad to even be able to get into a more lucrative area. It is only useful as a stepping stone and for this reason I wouldn't recommend it, unless you have the time and money to go the long way round to a qualification.

Bubbaclaus

The world needs ditch diggers too

seamus

The reason arts degrees are somewhat held in low regard is because they're a lot like business degrees - they're the courses that people do when they don't really know what they want to do, but are under the impression that they have to go to college.

It's a broad-entry programme with no specific career focus. And for many, they end up without a specific career focus and end up with a degree in something obscure like Ancient Roman Grammar or something equally useless.

But there are actually plenty of subjects and routes that one can take with an arts degree that leads to a specific career at the end.

It's worth noting that the same trends happens in other courses too. I did science in UCD, which has a similarly broad entry, and the range of potential subjects to study is huge. Being a "science graduate" is somewhat meaningless as a biology graduate may be less qualified for an IT career than an arts graduate.

And in science the amount of people who come out with a degree in a subject they'll never use it enormous. On paper the subjects are theoretically more useful (like statistics or theoretical physics), but in reality the number of actual jobs out there are small and are instantly snatched up by those with an aptitude and passion for it.

With the exception of those who studied computers, I think everyone I know who did science, is now working in a job that had nothing to do with their primary degree.

Mickeroo

Don't see an issue with arts degrees, even if the degree itself is a bit broad or whatever it will still provide them with a foot in the door to do a masters in something more focused.

retro:electro

My Arts degree enabled me to get my masters in social work for which I am now fully qualified; so no I don't think they're useless.

0byme75341jo28

Clandestine wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/going-to-college/doing-arts-is-not-a-waste-of-your-points-31455010.html

This seems like a lot of corporate speak to me, especially considering that I read on reddit today how courses for computer science have gone up more than 100 points. Is an arts course really that important in this day and age?

All that the points increase tells you is that demand increased, really don't see what point you're trying to make with that?

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Generic Dreadhead

I turned down a Full Time Degree in Arts to do a Higher Cert in Civil Engineering.

Doing Arts is a fine qualification to have, but ultimately you need to try to do something more "mainstream" out of it after. Like becoming a teacher.

Having a degree in Greek and Roman Civilisation and Phycology is a good way to set yourself up for a few years of bar work, intermittent world travelling and entry level call centre jobs

retro:electro

Cormac... wrote: »

I turned down a Full Time Degree in Arts to do a Higher Cert in Civil Engineering.

Doing Arts is a fine qualification to have, but ultimately you need to try to do something more "mainstream" out of it after. Like becoming a teacher.

Having a degree in Greek and Roman Civilisation and Phycology is a good way to set yourself up for a few years of bar work, intermittent world travelling and entry level call centre jobs

I don't think that's a fair thing to say. Those subjects are there as an option for a reason, and if they are of interest to someone then why shouldn't they study them? At the end of the day your degree is what you make it, whatever degree that may be.

eet fuk

smash wrote: »

Arts degrees graduates: Jack of all trades, masters of none!

Better than master of one.

The Moldy Gowl

I think a lot of people don't understand what an arts degree is.
The subjects you pick is far more important.

'Im doing arts' dosent even make sense. I'm doing a ba in economics is different, it's a degree to give you the understanding to a high degree to go into the industry and know a decent bit, or go on and do a masters.

RandomName2

Clandestine wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/going-to-college/doing-arts-is-not-a-waste-of-your-points-31455010.html

This seems like a lot of corporate speak to me, especially considering that I read on reddit today how courses for computer science have gone up more than 100 points. Is an arts course really that important in this day and age?

Arts degrees are predominantly for public sector work.

Is there still a hiring embargo in the public sector? Whether there is or not is not may provide the answer to your question.

RandomName2

Cormac... wrote: »

I turned down a Full Time Degree in Arts to do a Higher Cert in Civil Engineering.

Doing Arts is a fine qualification to have, but ultimately you need to try to do something more "mainstream" out of it after. Like becoming a teacher.

Having a degree in Greek and Roman Civilisation and Phycology is a good way to set yourself up for a few years of bar work, intermittent world travelling and entry level call centre jobs

That's the same for most courses. Most require additional qualification or placement afterwards. Computer Science is a bit of an exception in that regard (having said that, it's a buyers market for IT recruiters).

The Moldy Gowl

RandomName2 wrote: »

Arts degrees are predominantly for public sector work.

Is there still a hiring embargo in the public sector? Whether there is or not is not may provide the answer to your question.

No they're not?
Of all the people I know through college, none are working in the public sector.


I do know someone in the public sector my age, who hasn't done the leaving cert.

hatrickpatrick

Ah yes, the annual AH circlejerk to the effect that the only important thing about education is becoming qualified for a corporate job. :rolleyes:

Robsweezie

do whatever the **** you want and **** what people have to say about it. if you're digging ditches then strive to be the best ditch digger you can be.

Indestructable

smash wrote: »

Arts degrees graduates: Jack of all trades, masters of none!

Jack of all trades master of none, but a jack of all trades is oft times more useful than a master of one.

somesoldiers

When I did my Leaving cert I wanted to study English and philosophy. I changed my mind when my Father & Grandfather convinced me that would be "a load of sh1te".

I wanted to do something that would sound impressive so I went for Law in UCD, Law in TCD, Biz&Legal in UCD, that's all I put on the CAO form. Had to be Dublin as I didn't want to be too far away from the love of my life as then was. I was shy by 10 points for the first 2 so did the 3rd instead.

I finished that degree 9 years after I started it, lost all interest along the way. Although I will say it has opened doors for me and I now work in hedge funds in an area I would not have gotten into without the piece of paper.

Would I have stuck out the Arts degree and if so where would I be now, who knows....The love of my life dumped me a week into first year btw

Generic Dreadhead

anna080 wrote: »

I don't think that's a fair thing to say. Those subjects are there as an option for a reason, and if they are of interest to someone then why shouldn't they study them?

I was purely talking from an employment stand point

At the end of the day your degree is what you make it, whatever degree that may be.

No, Not really, not at all.

RandomName2 wrote: »

That's the same for most courses. Most require additional qualification or placement afterwards. Computer Science is a bit of an exception in that regard (having said that, it's a buyers market for IT recruiters).

It's MORE the case for Arts.

Tell me 1 subject choice in Arts that a 4 year degree would immediately qualify you to work in a PAYE career without doing further education?

Permabear

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knird evol

If you have an arts degree you can get a job working
for a college teaching other people to get arts degrees.
It's a bit like a virus.

The_Valeyard

Do you course that interests you personally, not the one that vested interests want you to take.

ToddyDoody

Do science and try and learn how your toilet flushings are purified into drinking water for you, for instance. (Hint: 'magic' is not the answer)

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

InitiumNovum

It really depends on what type of arts degree you do. Like if it's a BA in Economics, Psychology or Languages it's probably worth more than a BA in Art History or Greece & Roman Studies.

RandomName2

Cormac... wrote: »

Tell me 1 subject choice in Arts that a 4 year degree would immediately qualify you to work in a PAYE career without doing further education?

For basic office PAYE, any arts degree will suffice. Wouldn't economics have one or two specific jobs open to it as well? What about a BA in Psychology? But I mean, for the most-part you'd have to specialise (post-degree) just like with Science.

Mr Rhode Island Red

A lot of people here seem to think that one's ultimate goal should be to get a 9-5 desk job in an office.

Fair enough like, but many have a different direction they want to go in.

Clandestine

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Do you course that interests you personally, not the one that vested interests want you to take.

Society doesn't need students who study whatever interests them, it needs people who will study subjects that will generate money. Thats how a society sustains itself.

FunLover18

Whether any degree is a waste of points or important should only matter to one person and that's the person making the choice. Doing a medicine degree would have been a waste of points for me as I have zero interest in becoming a doctor.

danslevent

I have a BA in English and philosophy and currently doing a masters in publishing.

I loved my college years,was genuinely interested in the majority of my classes and they really opened my mind on a lot of topics. My housemate did commerce and found the majority of his lectures boring and just a lot of rote learning.

I think everyone should do some philosophy, my modules in environmental ethics and cultural ethics really impacted upon me and changed the dynamic of my thinking. My philosophy lecturers were so intelligent,their minds just work in amazing ways.

Clandestine

FunLover18 wrote: »

Doing a medicine degree would have been a waste of points for me as I have zero interest in becoming a doctor.

I don't have much interest in programming but that's what I'm doing my degree in because it'll guarantee me security. I can study what I like in my own time. We all have to make sacrifices. Hell, something like 24% of kids aged 18-25 are NEET's.

Playboy

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Interesting! I did an Arts degree in Psychology and Philosophy with the intention of continuing my education over the coming years in order to become a Clinical Psychologist. Got bored with Psychology mid way through a post grad in London and moved over to the Corporate world.

I didn't find the transition difficult and I do excellent for myself now. A lot of the people I work with have varying backgrounds, some of them specialist in areas such as accounting, economics, law and others with general arts background or even science. Your university background isn't really a determinant on how well you do in the corporate world, its all about you as a person, your drive, charisma, intelligence etc.

I know plenty of Oxford/Cambridge technical graduates who struggle where people with a far less prestigious and general education have flown up the ranks. I can see how an arts education gives you an edge in some ways as in my experience arts graduates can come across as more cultured/educated than individuals who specialize heavily into a technical degree. Some of those softer skills you learn doing arts can be a big help when navigating a political environment where often success is determined by who you know, how well you fit in and how you are perceived rather than what you know. Maybe all those extra hours Arts Grads can devote to socializing isn't necessarily a bad thing after all!

nervous_twitch

Clandestine wrote: »

I don't have much interest in programming but that's what I'm doing my degree in because it'll guarantee me security. I can study what I like in my own time. We all have to make sacrifices. Hell, something like 24% of kids aged 18-25 are NEET's.

And the sacrifice I've made is financial security for living a life I actually enjoy. I earn my keep but I'm not wasting the little amount of time I have doing something insipid. Takes all types to make the world spin.

Clandestine

Clandestine wrote: »

I actually want to share a small story from a book I've read.

The author was talking about a lecture he was giving to his class, where he gave each student a piece of paper. He told them to write down the 10 things they were planning to buy now or in the future, and the 10 degrees which seemed the most appealing to them.

On the list of items, the only things the students were writing down were items such as:
Video Games, TV, Phone, Mp3 Player, Computer, Car, petrol, DVD, clothes etc.

But on the list of degrees, he was getting this list:
Sociology, Journalism, Accounting, Psychology, Communications, Political Science, music, engineering, history, education

Basically, the students wanted all these items, but asides from a few people, weren't willing to study what was needed to create these things.

Engineering, music, communications, accounting, psychology - sounds like a decent set of skills for a music sharing tech or app doesn't it?

I hire people (not many but some) in the marketing space. As a rule I don't really care what someone graduated in, and I would be actively suspicious of anyone who studied marketing first up - it's a bull**** subject.

I would much, MUCH prefer psychology or history, and English or philosophy would be fine too, you are way more likely to get a good writer out of those courses and a lot of business is reading, writing, filtering, processing and persuading - precisely what you get good at studying something like history.

The practicalities of the job you learn on the job.

I think companies that don't hire arts graduates are missing out. Unfortunately that is very much my own opinion, I am aware that plenty out there don't feel the same way.