"Doing arts not a waste of your points"

Clandestine · 17-08-2015 11:09AM #1

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/going-to-college/doing-arts-is-not-a-waste-of-your-points-31455010.html

This seems like a lot of corporate speak to me, especially considering that I read on reddit today how courses for computer science have gone up more than 100 points. Is an arts course really that important in this day and age?

strelok · 17-08-2015 11:11AM

well when you fees are being paid by the state nothing is a waste of your points

do a six year course in advanced quilting, who gives a ****

whiskeyman · 17-08-2015 11:14AM

strelok wrote: »

do a six year course in advanced quilting, who gives a ****

Is every day a duvet day?

Dirty Dingus McGee · 17-08-2015 11:15AM

I have a BA in Finance and have a job.

Surely it's what you study that is far more important not actually the type of degree.

The Backwards Man · 17-08-2015 11:15AM

An Arts degree is the most stable and solid of the third level qualifications.
Things like Science and Engineering are wishy washy and change with the breeze, but Shakespeare will always be Shakespeare.

Jimoslimos · 17-08-2015 11:36AM

I lament what our Universities have become, mere skills training centres for multinationals. Ideally education in universities shouldn't be determined by what companies demand, i.e they should carry the burden of vocational training themselves.

Even with an Arts degree you should learn enough transferable skills, e.g., critical analysis to be of value to any employer. The more applied and specialised courses leave you vulnerable to changes in the industry. Why would an employer bother re-training you when there are a host of cheaper new graduates to choose from?

Anyway, t'would be a poorer world without people studying Classics, Ancient Irish history, Roman Architecture, etc., and I'm saying this as a Science graduate.

Clandestine · 17-08-2015 11:37AM

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

I have a BA in Finance and have a job.

Surely it's what you study that is far more important not actually the type of degree.

I think things like Economics, accounting etc. are considered arts degrees and are financially secure.

I think the lady in the article was referring more to degrees like English, fine arts, etc.

Clandestine · 17-08-2015 11:55AM

I actually want to share a small story from a book I've read.

The author was talking about a lecture he was giving to his class, where he gave each student a piece of paper. He told them to write down the 10 things they were planning to buy now or in the future, and the 10 degrees which seemed the most appealing to them.

On the list of items, the only things the students were writing down were items such as:
Video Games, TV, Phone, Mp3 Player, Computer, Car, petrol, DVD, clothes etc.

But on the list of degrees, he was getting this list:
Sociology, Journalism, Accounting, Psychology, Communications, Political Science, music, engineering, history, education

Basically, the students wanted all these items, but asides from a few people, weren't willing to study what was needed to create these things. They weren't willing to study what was actually in demand. People want nice TV's, and new computers - yet not enough people are actually willing to study the degree necessary to create them. Despite the fact that such a job would be secure and well paying, whilst a degree in communications for instance is neither.

Paramite Pie · 17-08-2015 12:00PM

The problem is that there are too many people with Arts degrees for the work that is available -- not everyone is going to become a lecturer.

hidinginthebush · 17-08-2015 12:02PM

Jimoslimos wrote: »

I lament what our Universities have become, mere skills training centres for multinationals. Ideally education in universities shouldn't be determined by what companies demand, i.e they should carry the burden of vocational training themselves.

Even with an Arts degree you should learn enough transferable skills, e.g., critical analysis to be of value to any employer. The more applied and specialised courses leave you vulnerable to changes in the industry. Why would an employer bother re-training you when there are a host of cheaper new graduates to choose from?

Anyway, t'would be a poorer world without people studying Classics, Ancient Irish history, Roman Architecture, etc., and I'm saying this as a Science graduate.

Of course you can say that as a science graduate, you can actually get a job!

jester77 · 17-08-2015 12:06PM

I wandered lonely as a cloud and got an arts degree. Now I float, I'm high and spend my days selling daffodils.

smash · 17-08-2015 12:08PM

Arts degrees graduates: Jack of all trades, masters of none!

_Whimsical_ · 17-08-2015 12:15PM

It really depends on what subjects you study for degree and how much work you put into it. I have friends who have become solicitors, barristers, law lecturers, journalists , psychologists and teachers after a BA. Most degrees require some further study after the initial degree these days, arts is usually one of those.
Arts gets a bad tap because very often it's been a slackers choice but it very much depends on the effort you put in yourself as to how useful it'll be too you in the long run.

Wolf Club · 17-08-2015 12:15PM

Clandestine wrote: »

I actually want to share a small story from a book I've read.

The author was talking about a lecture he was giving to his class, where he gave each student a piece of paper. He told them to write down the 10 things they were planning to buy now or in the future, and the 10 degrees which seemed the most appealing to them.

On the list of items, the only things the students were writing down were items such as:
Video Games, TV, Phone, Mp3 Player, Computer, Car, petrol, DVD, clothes etc.

But on the list of degrees, he was getting this list:
Sociology, Journalism, Accounting, Psychology, Communications, Political Science, music, engineering, history, education

Basically, the students wanted all these items, but asides from a few people, weren't willing to study what was needed to create these things. They weren't willing to study what was actually in demand. People want nice TV's, and new computers - yet not enough people are actually willing to study the degree necessary to create them. Despite the fact that such a job would be secure and well paying, whilst a degree in communications for instance is neither.

Anyone with any of the above degrees would be able to get a job if they were willing to work hard enough. I'd say a good lot of people working in marketing and PR would have a degree in communications.

lawred2 · 17-08-2015 12:17PM

The Backwards Man wrote: »

An Arts degree is the most stable and solid of the third level qualifications.
Things like Science and Engineering are wishy washy and change with the breeze, but Shakespeare will always be Shakespeare.

Science and Engineering change with the breeze...

lol yeah... those goddamn laws of physics; always changing with the breeze

nyarlothothep · 17-08-2015 12:17PM

Ah the old arts vs science debate, I'm sure we won't hear any cliched (programmed?) responses or self important harumphing.

Permabear · 17-08-2015 12:19PM

This post has been deleted.

nicki11 · 17-08-2015 12:22PM

Yeah I did arts, (History and Geography) and would classify it as the biggest waste of my time and money in my life. The country is full of arts students and it is becoming, the new minimum (replacing the leaving cert) before I'd have no bother getting a job but now I compete with hundreds of arts students to get a job in tesco. It is difficult enough to get a job doing your degree (to support yourself) never mind when your done as unlike other degrees unless you do BA Connect theres little opportunity to get experience in the area. The only place is in teaching but theres only so many positions in college and schools and too many out of work people with the qualifications. A normal arts degree has very few marketable options (language, IT/Psychology studies) and of those the market is over saturated and the competition is fierce for places in those modules. Speaking to people in IT as well I've learned someone with a BA in IT is less likely then someone who just did IT as its alot more basic. If you want to go into social work or teaching arts is a good avenue but otherwise theres not a lot of options and you'd almost have to do a postgrad to even be able to get into a more lucrative area. It is only useful as a stepping stone and for this reason I wouldn't recommend it, unless you have the time and money to go the long way round to a qualification.

Bubbaclaus · 17-08-2015 12:26PM

The world needs ditch diggers too

seamus · 17-08-2015 12:27PM

The reason arts degrees are somewhat held in low regard is because they're a lot like business degrees - they're the courses that people do when they don't really know what they want to do, but are under the impression that they have to go to college.

It's a broad-entry programme with no specific career focus. And for many, they end up without a specific career focus and end up with a degree in something obscure like Ancient Roman Grammar or something equally useless.

But there are actually plenty of subjects and routes that one can take with an arts degree that leads to a specific career at the end.

It's worth noting that the same trends happens in other courses too. I did science in UCD, which has a similarly broad entry, and the range of potential subjects to study is huge. Being a "science graduate" is somewhat meaningless as a biology graduate may be less qualified for an IT career than an arts graduate.

And in science the amount of people who come out with a degree in a subject they'll never use it enormous. On paper the subjects are theoretically more useful (like statistics or theoretical physics), but in reality the number of actual jobs out there are small and are instantly snatched up by those with an aptitude and passion for it.

With the exception of those who studied computers, I think everyone I know who did science, is now working in a job that had nothing to do with their primary degree.

Mickeroo · 17-08-2015 12:31PM

Don't see an issue with arts degrees, even if the degree itself is a bit broad or whatever it will still provide them with a foot in the door to do a masters in something more focused.

retro:electro · 17-08-2015 12:33PM

My Arts degree enabled me to get my masters in social work for which I am now fully qualified; so no I don't think they're useless.

0byme75341jo28 · 17-08-2015 12:35PM

Clandestine wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/going-to-college/doing-arts-is-not-a-waste-of-your-points-31455010.html

This seems like a lot of corporate speak to me, especially considering that I read on reddit today how courses for computer science have gone up more than 100 points. Is an arts course really that important in this day and age?

All that the points increase tells you is that demand increased, really don't see what point you're trying to make with that?

Permabear · 17-08-2015 12:56PM

This post has been deleted.

Generic Dreadhead · 17-08-2015 01:10PM

I turned down a Full Time Degree in Arts to do a Higher Cert in Civil Engineering.

Doing Arts is a fine qualification to have, but ultimately you need to try to do something more "mainstream" out of it after. Like becoming a teacher.

Having a degree in Greek and Roman Civilisation and Phycology is a good way to set yourself up for a few years of bar work, intermittent world travelling and entry level call centre jobs

retro:electro · 17-08-2015 01:24PM

Cormac... wrote: »

I turned down a Full Time Degree in Arts to do a Higher Cert in Civil Engineering.

Doing Arts is a fine qualification to have, but ultimately you need to try to do something more "mainstream" out of it after. Like becoming a teacher.

Having a degree in Greek and Roman Civilisation and Phycology is a good way to set yourself up for a few years of bar work, intermittent world travelling and entry level call centre jobs

I don't think that's a fair thing to say. Those subjects are there as an option for a reason, and if they are of interest to someone then why shouldn't they study them? At the end of the day your degree is what you make it, whatever degree that may be.

eet fuk · 17-08-2015 01:26PM

smash wrote: »

Arts degrees graduates: Jack of all trades, masters of none!

Better than master of one.

The Moldy Gowl · 17-08-2015 01:35PM

I think a lot of people don't understand what an arts degree is.
The subjects you pick is far more important.

'Im doing arts' dosent even make sense. I'm doing a ba in economics is different, it's a degree to give you the understanding to a high degree to go into the industry and know a decent bit, or go on and do a masters.

RandomName2 · 17-08-2015 01:37PM

Clandestine wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/going-to-college/doing-arts-is-not-a-waste-of-your-points-31455010.html

This seems like a lot of corporate speak to me, especially considering that I read on reddit today how courses for computer science have gone up more than 100 points. Is an arts course really that important in this day and age?

Arts degrees are predominantly for public sector work.

Is there still a hiring embargo in the public sector? Whether there is or not is not may provide the answer to your question.

RandomName2 · 17-08-2015 01:39PM

Cormac... wrote: »

I turned down a Full Time Degree in Arts to do a Higher Cert in Civil Engineering.

Doing Arts is a fine qualification to have, but ultimately you need to try to do something more "mainstream" out of it after. Like becoming a teacher.

Having a degree in Greek and Roman Civilisation and Phycology is a good way to set yourself up for a few years of bar work, intermittent world travelling and entry level call centre jobs

That's the same for most courses. Most require additional qualification or placement afterwards. Computer Science is a bit of an exception in that regard (having said that, it's a buyers market for IT recruiters).

The Moldy Gowl · 17-08-2015 01:42PM

RandomName2 wrote: »

Arts degrees are predominantly for public sector work.

Is there still a hiring embargo in the public sector? Whether there is or not is not may provide the answer to your question.

No they're not?
Of all the people I know through college, none are working in the public sector.

I do know someone in the public sector my age, who hasn't done the leaving cert.

"Doing arts not a waste of your points"

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