Teacherslookup.com & Data Protection legislation

gaiscioch

I just googled my name (not as a phrase) and came across a website which has started cogging our details from the Teaching Council of Ireland database and putting it on Google search results. The TCI records do not, very importantly, appear in a Google search for your name. They only appear with a specific search on the TCI website - e.g. "Seán O'Leary" will not appear if your official record is "Seán Michael O'Leary". (and the Captcha mustn't be much of an obstacle to searching for every teacher in Ireland on the TCI website)

My full name (hence it didn't appear as a phrase search) comes up as it is on the TC registration (rather than the shortened version I'd be known as), my TC registration number (which also could be stolen), my school name and registration status. This is presumably just the start of this website's project. Then there's a nice little box for anybody to leave comments anonymously about me, an identified teacher who will someday have to apply for a job. Ratemyteacher meets identity theft, and political accountability without the financial or status rewards of political power.

ie.teacherslookup.com

Leaving aside the issue of identity theft, how is it legal for the private data which we have entrusted with the Teaching Council of Ireland to be circulated like this? Potential employers can check our details/qualifications/Garda vetting etc in the TC website, and that's obviously 100% correct. However, who has given a private-for-profit organisation (hiding behind US law, no doubt) the right to access and distribute our data from an Irish state-owned organisation?

vamos!

Members of the public can get your TC number and registration details by searching the registrar on the TC website as far as I know. I wouldn't worry about your number being stolen or comments being made. It's unlikely that any employer would take it seriously. I can't imagine principals checking ratemyteacher before interviews. I don't think we are important enough in our students lives for them to bother searching for us and leaving comments.

katydid

vamos! wrote: »

Members of the public can get your TC number and registration details by searching the registrar on the TC website as far as I know. I wouldn't worry about your number being stolen or comments being made. It's unlikely that any employer would take it seriously. I can't imagine principals checking ratemyteacher before interviews. I don't think we are important enough in our students lives for them to bother searching for us and leaving comments.

I don't know about what employers would do, but students certainly do bother. Out of interest, a few months ago, I checked out my own name, and where I work. I'm not sure if it was good or bad that nobody bothered commenting on me! But come of my colleagues had pretty nasty things written about them.

rainbowtrout

gaiscioch wrote: »

I just googled my name (not as a phrase) and came across a website which has started cogging our details from the Teaching Council of Ireland database and putting it on Google search results. The TCI records do not, very importantly, appear in a Google search for your name. They only appear with a specific search on the TCI website - e.g. "Seán O'Leary" will not appear if your official record is "Seán Michael O'Leary". (and the Captcha mustn't be much of an obstacle to searching for every teacher in Ireland on the TCI website)

My full name (hence it didn't appear as a phrase search) comes up as it is on the TC registration (rather than the shortened version I'd be known as), my TC registration number (which also could be stolen), my school name and registration status. This is presumably just the start of this website's project. Then there's a nice little box for anybody to leave comments anonymously about me, an identified teacher who will someday have to apply for a job. Ratemyteacher meets identity theft, and political accountability without the financial or status rewards of political power.

ie.teacherslookup.com

Leaving aside the issue of identity theft, how is it legal for the private data which we have entrusted with the Teaching Council of Ireland to be circulated like this? Potential employers can check our details/qualifications/Garda vetting etc in the TC website, and that's obviously 100% correct. However, who has given a private-for-profit organisation (hiding behind US law, no doubt) the right to access and distribute our data from an Irish state-owned organisation?

It's not private data. It's available to anyone who logs on and searches the TC website. Also they didn't have to search every name in the country. There's now a school search available, so if you put in the name of a school it will return a list of all the teachers registered for that school.

Incidentally I just looked for myself using that teacher lookup and I don't exist on it. On the other hand if you googled me the normal way you'll get way more information

aunt aggie

katydid wrote: »

I don't know about what employers would do, but students certainly do bother. Out of interest, a few months ago, I checked out my own name, and where I work. I'm not sure if it was good or bad that nobody bothered commenting on me! But come of my colleagues had pretty nasty things written about them.

Ratemyteacher was just a faze and if you look at comments made about teachers on the site, most of them are over 5 years old. A lot of new teachers missed out on it and if you're not new you're probably very lucky based on some of the comments I've seen.

It's another faze and it won't have any impact on your career OP. Also I don't think someone would successfully steal your identity without your PPS and a lot of other identifying information.

r93kaey5p2izun

The TC have a note about this on their website. They have introduced a captcha system to search the register since this happened - why they didn't have one before is anyone's guess. They have a new note about the information being copyright also. I wouldn't worry too much about this since the information was public anyway.

As for Rate My Teacher, well it's certainly not a phase in my school. It's regularly updated and full of the most vile sexual comments.

katydid

aunt aggie wrote: »

Ratemyteacher was just a faze and if you look at comments made about teachers on the site, most of them are over 5 years old. A lot of new teachers missed out on it and if you're not new you're probably very lucky based on some of the comments I've seen.

It's another faze and it won't have any impact on your career OP. Also I don't think someone would successfully steal your identity without your PPS and a lot of other identifying information.

I presume you mean a phase...:-)

No, it certainly isn't a phase, but it would certainly faze a young teacher starting out. Not in terms of getting a job, but in terms of self-confidence. Kids say awfully cruel things.

evolving_doors

katydid wrote: »

I presume you mean a phase...:-)

No, it certainly isn't a phase, but it would certainly faze a young teacher starting out. Not in terms of getting a job, but in terms of self-confidence. Kids say awfully cruel things.

Ya I've seen comments on RMT about teachers who have long retired, changed jobs or died! One way to subvert it is to get yourself a load of fake emails and write idiotic txt spk jibber jabber... or else dont feed the trolls.

I'm wondering what the purpose of this new site is though.. .are they going to give an overall profile of every school in terms of how many are qualified in what, to what level,years of experience etc.. then maybe add in school results!

A lot of data mining to be done for someone with a lot of time on their hands.

Edit: Just had a look at the TC website and it doesn;t give the details of the subjects I'm qualified in (or qualification level!) .. had that changed?. It just gives the level of registration.

The website you mentioned is a bit of a mess though... not many names up, so they've a long way to go.

aunt aggie

Thanks Katy. My brain stopped working for a minute there.

aunt aggie

Thinking about this some more, it may highlight situations where teachers are teaching subjects they aren't actually qualified in. Yes, all this information is readily available on teaching council website but as someone mentioned, that won't appear in search engine results. Now it might.

rainbowtrout

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Ya I've seen comments on RMT about teachers who have long retired, changed jobs or died! One way to subvert it is to get yourself a load of fake emails and write idiotic txt spk jibber jabber... or else dont feed the trolls.

I'm wondering what the purpose of this new site is though.. .are they going to give an overall profile of every school in terms of how many are qualified in what, to what level,years of experience etc.. then maybe add in school results!

A lot of data mining to be done for someone with a lot of time on their hands.

Edit: Just had a look at the TC website and it doesn;t give the details of the subjects I'm qualified in (or qualification level!) .. had that changed?. It just gives the level of registration.

The website you mentioned is a bit of a mess though... not many names up, so they've a long way to go.

The subjects you are qualified in aren't available to the public. That's only available to you when you login. It's always been like that.

beveragelady

The problem as I see it is that your exact work address is there. There are many reasons somebody mightn't want their work location displayed on the internet. You don't need to be living a double life or running from the mob to want this sort of privacy.

katydid

beveragelady wrote: »

The problem as I see it is that your exact work address is there. There are many reasons somebody mightn't want their work location displayed on the internet. You don't need to be living a double life or running from the mob to want this sort of privacy.

But you're a public servant, paid by the government and working in a public institution. No big secret, surely?

spurious

katydid wrote: »

But you're a public servant, paid by the government and working in a public institution. No big secret, surely?

Still, I wouldn't want to be someone who had an abusive ex-partner and didn't necessarily want them able to find my workplace so easily.

katydid

spurious wrote: »

Still, I wouldn't want to be someone who had an abusive ex-partner and didn't necessarily want them able to find my workplace so easily.

Then you'd probably have to find another job not in the public service... You can't hide these things when you're paid by the state. That's how I see it, anyway.

beveragelady

katydid wrote: »

Then you'd probably have to find another job not in the public service... You can't hide these things when you're paid by the state. That's how I see it, anyway.

I'm not Tubs or Joe Duffy, signing away my soul and my anonymity for a sniff of celebrity and a big paycheck.
There are lots of reasons somebody might want to keep a low profile. Somebody above mentioned an abusive ex, there might be family difficulties, or just a weirdo who you don't want showing up at the school. None of these are reasons to change your name or quit your job, but you are surely entitled to keep that sort of information out of the public arena. Just because I work for the state doesn't make me public property.
I have an extremely low internet profile, in fact I was practically unfindable, and now this is gone.

katydid

beveragelady wrote: »

I'm not Tubs or Joe Duffy, signing away my soul and my anonymity for a sniff of celebrity and a big paycheck.
There are lots of reasons somebody might want to keep a low profile. Somebody above mentioned an abusive ex, there might be family difficulties, or just a weirdo who you don't want showing up at the school. None of these are reasons to change your name or quit your job, but you are surely entitled to keep that sort of information out of the public arena. Just because I work for the state doesn't make me public property.
I have an extremely low internet profile, in fact I was practically unfindable, and now this is gone.

I understand all that, but nevertheless a public employee is a public employee. The public has the right to know who works in public schools. That's my opinion, anyway.

rainbowtrout

beveragelady wrote: »

I'm not Tubs or Joe Duffy, signing away my soul and my anonymity for a sniff of celebrity and a big paycheck.
There are lots of reasons somebody might want to keep a low profile. Somebody above mentioned an abusive ex, there might be family difficulties, or just a weirdo who you don't want showing up at the school. None of these are reasons to change your name or quit your job, but you are surely entitled to keep that sort of information out of the public arena. Just because I work for the state doesn't make me public property.
I have an extremely low internet profile, in fact I was practically unfindable, and now this is gone.

Anyone can also go to a public library and look up the electoral register and find an address. Or use the phone book. It's not that hard to find someone, I don't see what the big deal is about a list of teachers on the teaching council website. I have no idea how many photos I've had to stand for over the years in school which have ended up in the local paper where my name is listed along with the school. I know the names of plenty of teachers in other schools in my county despite having never laid eyes on them. Given the number of students that pass through each school every year there are hundreds of people if not thousands of people who know the identities of teachers working in schools. It's not a private job.

beveragelady

katydid wrote: »

I understand all that, but nevertheless a public employee is a public employee. The public has the right to know who works in public schools. That's my opinion, anyway.

The parents of the kids I teach are the only people whose opinion of me matters (in this context, obviously) and they know where to find me. On this website somebody can search for your name to find where you work, and that might make a lot of people uneasy. It's not the same thing as searching for a school and finding who works there because a parent might have a good reason for not encountering a certain teacher at a PT meeting. Somebody who doesn't know what part of the country you're teaching in, or maybe doesn't even know you're a teacher, can now find you through google as a result of the information on this site.

katydid

beveragelady wrote: »

The parents of the kids I teach are the only people whose opinion of me matters (in this context, obviously) and they know where to find me. On this website somebody can search for your name to find where you work, and that might make a lot of people uneasy. It's not the same thing as searching for a school and finding who works there because a parent might have a good reason for not encountering a certain teacher at a PT meeting. Somebody who doesn't know what part of the country you're teaching in, or maybe doesn't even know you're a teacher, can now find you through google as a result of the information on this site.

Sorry, but you are not employed by the parents of the kids you teach. You are employed by the state. You take public money, you can't be private.

Unless they knew you were a teacher, why would they be looking you up on this website?

rainbowtrout

beveragelady wrote: »

The parents of the kids I teach are the only people whose opinion of me matters (in this context, obviously) and they know where to find me. On this website somebody can search for your name to find where you work, and that might make a lot of people uneasy. It's not the same thing as searching for a school and finding who works there because a parent might have a good reason for not encountering a certain teacher at a PT meeting. Somebody who doesn't know what part of the country you're teaching in, or maybe doesn't even know you're a teacher, can now find you through google as a result of the information on this site.

If they don't know you are a teacher why would they be looking for you on a site that lists teachers?

And what exactly do you expect they will do with that information? Rainbow Trout is a teacher. So what??

And they only have a name, how would they even know it is you unless you have an extremely unusual name. I know when I google myself that I find me, an Irish artist of the same name and an Olympic sailor. I wonder does the Olympian lie awake at night going 'Bloody hell, I'm going to have all sorts of unsolicited communications from randomers now that I know there's another Rainbow Trout out there and she's a teacher!'

beveragelady

katydid wrote: »

Sorry, but you are not employed by the parents of the kids you teach. You are employed by the state. You take public money, you can't be private.

Unless they knew you were a teacher, why would they be looking you up on this website?

My work address can now be found using google, by somebody who has no idea that I'm a teacher. Why is it so hard to see why this might be problematic for somebody? The only thing that comes up when I put my name into google is this entry on the teacherslookup.com site. (Obviously other things pop up but they're nothing to do with me and certainly wouldn't lead anybody to my place of work.)
Somebody can choose to stay off the electoral register, keep out of the papers, avoid the limelight, all without having sinister reasons. If you really can't imagine how that would be the case you're lucky.
If the argument is that teachers are public property because they're employed by the state then why can't their places of employment be listed as the VEC or the Dept of Ed?

Edit: In case it's not clear, I want to emphasis that my name typed directly into google leads to the teacherslookup site. Nobody need to know that I'm a teacher to find where I work, and to turn up there.

beveragelady

rainbowtrout wrote: »

If they don't know you are a teacher why would they be looking for you on a site that lists teachers?

And what exactly do you expect they will do with that information? Rainbow Trout is a teacher. So what??

And they only have a name, how would they even know it is you unless you have an extremely unusual name. I know when I google myself that I find me, an Irish artist of the same name and an Olympic sailor. I wonder does the Olympian lie awake at night going 'Bloody hell, I'm going to have all sorts of unsolicited communications from randomers now that I know there's another Rainbow Trout out there and she's a teacher!'

I answered the point about knowing I'm a teacher in my last post.
Nobody is bothered about receiving a bunch of misdirected emails, somebody can now physically track you to the school gates. Can you really not see why for some person, even just one person out there, this might be an unpleasant thought?

katydid

beveragelady wrote: »

My work address can now be found using google, by somebody who has no idea that I'm a teacher. Why is it so hard to see why this might be problematic for somebody? The only thing that comes up when I put my name into google is this entry on the teacherslookup.com site. (Obviously other things pop up but they're nothing to do with me and certainly wouldn't lead anybody to my place of work.)
Somebody can choose to stay off the electoral register, keep out of the papers, avoid the limelight, all without having sinister reasons. If you really can't imagine how that would be the case you're lucky.
If the argument is that teachers are public property because they're employed by the state then why can't their places of employment be listed as the VEC or the Dept of Ed?

Edit: In case it's not clear, I want to emphasis that my name typed directly into google leads to the teacherslookup site. Nobody need to know that I'm a teacher to find where I work, and to turn up there.

I've no idea how common your real name is, but using google, unless you have a very common name it's unlikely anyone can track you down using google alone. If they know you're a teacher, sure, they can track you down using the TC website, but you can hardly expect a register of public servants not to be public? How on earth could typing your name into google lead to the site you mention?

Of course someone can choose many ways of avoiding the limelight, but at the end of the day you work in a job that has a public profile and you have to accept that. Your place of work is not the Dept. of Education, it's the school where you teach.

rainbowtrout

beveragelady wrote: »

My work address can now be found using google, by somebody who has no idea that I'm a teacher. Why is it so hard to see why this might be problematic for somebody? The only thing that comes up when I put my name into google is this entry on the teacherslookup.com site. (Obviously other things pop up but they're nothing to do with me and certainly wouldn't lead anybody to my place of work.)
Somebody can choose to stay off the electoral register, keep out of the papers, avoid the limelight, all without having sinister reasons. If you really can't imagine how that would be the case you're lucky.
If the argument is that teachers are public property because they're employed by the state then why can't their places of employment be listed as the VEC or the Dept of Ed?

If other things come up that have nothing to do with you, then how do you know that a person googling your name will know you're a teacher based on a list of google search results returning all sites listing your name which you could share with multiple people? All they know if they put 'beverage lady' into google is that several website listings come up with your name on them. You could be any and all of them. You could also be none of them.

I just googled a friend of mine who is like what you have described above. She doesn't use any social media. She has little or no internet presence. Funny enough the teacher look up link came up, but so did a million linked in profiles for people of that name as well as twitter accounts, a gofundme charity page, instagram and facebook accounts, a macra na feirme page, local newspaper links where someone of that name is mentioned in one of their articles/sports reports. There is a wealth of websites with people of that name and none of them relate to her.

Incidentally a lot of schools websites were listing their teachers long before the teaching council, how do you feel about that?

seavill

beveragelady wrote: »

I answered the point about knowing I'm a teacher in my last post.
Nobody is bothered about receiving a bunch of misdirected emails, somebody can now physically track you to the school gates. Can you really not see why for some person, even just one person out there, this might be an unpleasant thought?

The reality is though that if there is someone out there that is looking to track someone down they will easily do it regardless of this new website or the TC website.
I think that's the point others are making rather than making little of what you are saying.
If it's an ex they know your a teacher and an idea of where in the country you might be. If it's a complete looney they won't just google find nothing and just say oh well that's that so. If it's someone stalking or whatever they will find you regardless. Ireland is not a big place

rainbowtrout

beveragelady wrote: »

I answered the point about knowing I'm a teacher in my last post.
Nobody is bothered about receiving a bunch of misdirected emails, somebody can now physically track you to the school gates. Can you really not see why for some person, even just one person out there, this might be an unpleasant thought?

No, someone now knows that someone of your name works in a specific school. They don't know that it is you.

And how would they know it is you specifically and not the beverage lady who has an instagram account filled with cat photos and works in the local supervalu?

gaiscioch

beveragelady wrote: »

I'm not Tubs or Joe Duffy, signing away my soul and my anonymity for a sniff of celebrity and a big paycheck.
There are lots of reasons somebody might want to keep a low profile. Somebody above mentioned an abusive ex, there might be family difficulties, or just a weirdo who you don't want showing up at the school. None of these are reasons to change your name or quit your job, but you are surely entitled to keep that sort of information out of the public arena. Just because I work for the state doesn't make me public property.
I have an extremely low internet profile, in fact I was practically unfindable, and now this is gone.

This whole post, a million times. Thank you. I have never had a Facebook account, or anything at all like that. Nothing. Every few days people want to "keep in touch" with one of those things. No. I can see the merit in Linkedin in career terms, but I value my privacy too much to join even that. There is - or rather, was - no record of my name online. I'd rather keep it that way, thank you very much.

I am fully accountable to all the people who matter in my career - the school management which employed me, the Department which pays me, and the TCI. My credentials have all been verified. I have done everything by the book. If a parent wants to find out more or make a complaint, there is a proper channel. Allowing a private corporation governed by US law to take control of my personal and employment details is not that channel.

gaiscioch

katydid wrote: »

I understand all that, but nevertheless a public employee is a public employee. The public has the right to know who works in public schools. That's my opinion, anyway.

At that rate, all 350,000 public servants in receipt of public monies should have their details searchable online; if they accept public monies, they have to accept that their employment details will be posted online. When was that put in the contract of employment?

I never signed a contract of employment giving consent to the creation of an online profile by a private corporation, a profile which used data I gave in good faith to a state organisation, and which now appears for the first time when you google my name. (even though it was on the TCI website, it never appeared in a Google search - a distinction which is very important for me)

As beveragelady rightly says, we chose to teach in classrooms in schools in a locality for a decidedly mediocre salary. We did not choose to go on tv and be hugely remunerated as a consequence of creating a public profile. For a wide variety of reasons, many private citizens want to retain their privacy. This information given to the state in good faith betrays that.

gaiscioch

rainbowtrout wrote: »

If they don't know you are a teacher why would they be looking for you on a site that lists teachers?:confused

Important correction here: when you search your name in Google, the Teacherslookup website comes up as the result. In Google.

gaiscioch

rainbowtrout wrote: »

And what exactly do you expect they will do with that information? Rainbow Trout is a teacher. So what??

That subjective nonchalance is not the point, though, is it? A private corporation is allowed take data which we entrusted with a state organisation and publicise this for anybody who does a basic, common Google search of our names. And this is just the start of their project. That data is no longer data for a specific, localised search on the Teaching Council's website. For a variety of reasons, people prefer privacy and to be in control of their personal details. For instance, a teacher may also have another occupation and they might prefer to emphasise that occupation when seeking further employment. If the only information about them online is about their teaching, it will give undue weight to that aspect of their career. The reasons are irrelevant, actually. What is relevant is that this profit-making corporation has no right to publicise the employment records of private citizens in the employment of a state organisation.