The Dark side of the game.

Tom Joad

There are discussions going on across a number of threads on the dark side of the game, mainly arising from the incidents in the Tyrone/Monaghan game. When discussions occur across a number of threads it becomes very messy and difficult to follow for everyone and drags other threads off topic (and very difficult to moderate too).

So this thread is to discuss all things covering diving/cynical play etc, etc in the game.

Couple of ground rules before posting:

The GAA charter applies and will be strictly enforced:

That includes:

• No abuse of other posters, players, officials etc,etc..
• No trolling
• No backseat moderation - use the report function if you think a post requires moderator action and one of us will get to it and deal with it.
• No sectarian/ inflammatory language

This list is not exhaustive and may be added to by the mods.

Realt Dearg Sec

Should be good craic!

Tipp invented dirty play in 1962.

Tom Joad

There were a couple of good points made on a few different threads that I
tried to merge in here but I can only do them in chronological order so they would just be a jumble of unrelated posts.

But my own view on a couple of the points made.

There is a world of a difference between the Meath team of the 80s/90s and what we are talking about this year. That Meath team was tough as old boots and yes sometimes they stepped over the line of physicality but there was nothing underhand or cowardly about what they did.

The way the game has gone in terms of the time and effort put in by teams it was inevitable that the win at all costs/ keep pushing the boundaries was going to end with some of the antics we see and hear about diving/feigning injury/ sledging etc. It is up to the GAA now to firmly and fairly deal with every incident of this consistently in order to wipe it out - it is a scourge on the game and is destroying it.

The time wasting/ lying down to waste time has crept into the game in the last few years and in my mind the answer is simple - bring in a rugby style system of stopping the clock and take the time keeping/injury time out of the ref's hands. Plus get any injured player (as long as not a head/spinal injury) off the field and he needs to be invited back on by the ref when play is halted again naturally.

There was another discussion about whether you would prefer a punch or to be sledged(is that a word now ). To me I think sledging is the last resort of a coward. As I recall on the field one day when someone was throwing shapes at our full back, he said "if you hit me again make sure you knock me out because if I can get up I will lay you out flat". Needless to say yer man quit his messin. Point is that if you throw a punch, you run the risk of being seen by an official or retribution by the opposition. Using a personal tragedy to goad someone on the other hand is the act of a coward pure and simple.

Jayop

Remove time keeping from the refs and introduce a rule next year before the league that anyone diving gets a ban from video evidence.

Job done.

Realt Dearg Sec

Jayop wrote: »

Remove time keeping from the refs and introduce a rule next year before the league that anyone diving gets a ban from video evidence.

Job done.

If you can get a two thirds majority from that lumbering dinosaur congress, you'll have worked a miracle.

Jayop

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

If you can get a two thirds majority from that lumbering dinosaur congress, you'll have worked a miracle.

But it really is that simple. Tough punishments on diving, miss one game in the championship first offence, 3 for the second etc then it stops overnight.

The same with the time keeping. It's been a massive issue with the GAA for years even before Sean Cavanagh invented time wasting. The issue of the GAA being money grabbers with the refs blowing up for draws (utter nonsense) has been talked about since I was a nipper. Make it simple, the ladies have the hooter (no pun) so it's been tried and tested.


The sledging is harder to solve. I don't mind a bit of chat, that's been going on for ever but there's a line. If lads don't know where that is then more shame on them but I don't see how you can stop it if you can't prove it.

blackcard

Maybe someone could explain how 'additional time' works. If say a goalkeeper wastes time taking a puckout, does the referee add on the time wasted along with the time taken booking the goalkeeper? Does a ref add on time for booking / sending off a player. Does the ref add on time for a substitution taking place? Or for a goalkeeper strolling up to take a free? The time for consulting with linesmen/umpires? Hawkeye? Or is it just 2 minutes of additional time anyway? One way of wasting time recently is where a ruck develops in hurling and the ball has to be thrown in 2 or 3 times. I think there should be a rule where a ref has to add in additional time if a ball has to be thrown in twice or more

Jayop

Considering Duffy played over 10 minutes of injury time at the weekend he clearly added it on for any time he thought it was being wasted.

DDC1990

Philip Jordan seems to be convinced that McCann has got an 8 week ban from the CCCCCCC.

Now I was disgusted by McCann's cheating and the fact that Hughes got sent off for it, but the current rule book states that the current sanction for diving and feigning injury is a yellow card.

Some jump to give an 8 week ban to a guy for what is deemed a yellow card offence in the rule book if this is true.

By all means change the rule book and introduce retrospective bans for diving and feigning injury, or upgrade it to a red card. But to do this out of nowhere, after leaving Sheilds' one go unpunished would be fairly shocking and not something I'd like to see.

Jayop

DDC1990 wrote: »

Philip Jordan seems to be convinced that McCann has got an 8 week ban from the CCCCCCC.

Now I was disgusted by McCann's cheating and the fact that Hughes got sent off for it, but the current rule book states that the current sanction for diving and feigning injury is a yellow card.

Some jump to give an 8 week ban to a guy for what is deemed a yellow card offence in the rule book if this is true.

By all means change the rule book and introduce retrospective bans for diving and feigning injury, or upgrade it to a red card. But to do this out of nowhere, after leaving Sheilds' one go unpunished would be fairly shocking and not something I'd like to see.

If that's the case then it's simply disgusting and much worse than the actual dive. As I said above I'd be all in favour of harsh punishments for diving, but you can't just decide 3/4's the way though the year to start punishing one player just because O'Rourke lost his **** on the Sunday game. It should be introduced at the start of next year and it should be made clear to every county what's happening.

Where'd you hear this?

DDC1990

Jayop wrote: »

If that's the case then it's simply disgusting and much worse than the actual dive. As I said above I'd be all in favour of harsh punishments for diving, but you can't just decide 3/4's the way though the year to start punishing one player just because O'Rourke lost his **** on the Sunday game. It should be introduced at the start of next year and it should be made clear to every county what's happening.

Where'd you hear this?

Philip Jordan is losing his **** (rightly IMO) about it on his Twitter account. Can't link to it because I'm on my phone, but check it out. He appears to be entirely convinced himself, or else he is on a serious troll mission.

https://mobile.twitter.com/PhilipJordan7/tweets

Jayop

DDC1990 wrote: »

Philip Jordan is losing his **** (rightly IMO) about it on his Twitter account. Can't link to it because I'm on my phone, but check it out. He appears to be entirely convinced himself, or else he is on a serious troll mission.

https://twitter.com/PhilipJordan7/with_replies

I don't see where he's said it's actually happening. He linked the following website...

http://teamtalkmag.com/2015/08/exclusive-gaa-being-pressurised-into-taking-action-on-tiernan-mccann/

...and seems to be talking about it. Apparently a source in HQ has said several " high profile Dublin based journalists" have been pressuring the CCC to take action.

feargale

Jayop wrote: »

The sledging is harder to solve. I don't mind a bit of chat, that's been going on for ever but there's a line. If lads don't know where that is then more shame on them but I don't see how you can stop it if you can't prove it.

I agree that it's the lowest of the low. Part of the problem of misbehaviour has been the schoolboy notion prevalent among GAA players that it's unmanly to complain about these things. I have heard of appalling things being said and it's now too prevalent and too serious to throw up hands and say nothing can be done about it. I can only think of two possible solutions:
1. Plant a good lipreader, with binoculars if necessary.
2. The ref enters each dressing room before the game and randomly picks two players and attaches hidden microphones to them.
Crazy, you may say, but I'll stick to these suggested solutions until I hear better.

Last Sunday I saw two players blown against for a perfectly fair shoulder, 1. about three minutes into the minor game and 2. around the 11th minute in the senior game. I wouldn't dream of giving a shoulder now. I'd pull the jersey instead. Nine times out of ten you'll get away with it, even if you do it under the ref's eyes. And it's awful to watch.

What do you think of the nonsence that now seems de rigeur when a sub comes on? I mean the obligatory getting to know you dig in the ribs or whatever for your immediate opponent. It injects an atmosphere of venom before a ball has been struck. If the ref is otherwise occupied one might at least expect that one or two of the other officials would watch for it. There's nothing manly about it, contrary to what some baboons seem to think. In the recent Limerick v. Tipp game I saw a sub come on and shake hands with his opposite number. Just that, no more. I wondered if I was seeing things.

DDC1990

Jayop wrote: »

https://twitter.com/PhilipJordan7/with_replies

I don't see where he's said it's actually happening. He linked the following website...

http://teamtalkmag.com/2015/08/exclusive-gaa-being-pressurised-into-taking-action-on-tiernan-mccann/

...and seems to be talking about it. Apparently a source in HQ has said several " high profile Dublin based journalists" have been pressuring the CCC to take action.

Check out the replies to the tweet to Brolly. He says "An 8 week ban, you are the man to call on."

Joe replies saying "You are kidding", And Jordan says "No, serious, why change rules when you can just make up new ones."

Jayop

https://twitter.com/PhilipJordan7/status/631224794281836544
https://twitter.com/JoeBrolly1993/status/631225911279546368
https://twitter.com/PhilipJordan7/status/631226331657842688
https://twitter.com/JoeBrolly1993/status/631226655823003648
https://twitter.com/PhilipJordan7/status/631227335799386112


Not sure why they're not embedding properly

ProudDUB

Tom Joad wrote: »

The time wasting/ lying down to waste time has crept into the game in the last few years and in my mind the answer is simple - bring in a rugby style system of stopping the clock and take the time keeping/injury time out of the ref's hands. Plus get any injured player (as long as not a head/spinal injury) off the field and he needs to be invited back on by the ref when play is halted again naturally.

There was nearly 9 minute of injury time added on to the Tyrone/Monaghan game. Shag all of it was for actual injuries. So the ref was clearly adding on time for lads playing silly buggers with the time wasting. It was about the only thing Martin Duffy did right all day long. I'd be curious to know if that was his own decision, or word came from higher up.

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

If you can get a two thirds majority from that lumbering dinosaur congress, you'll have worked a miracle.

You never know. Look at how the GAA powers that be were able to get the SKY deal done, without it ever going to a vote at Congress. There is no way it would have passed a vote if it did. Sometimes it's not about what you can or can not get a 2/3 majority for. It's all about how well you play the politics of taking things off the voted upon agenda in the first place.

frostyjacks

There's no difference to what Tyrone do and what the likes of Meath did back in the day. It's about doing what needs to be done to win. Look at the All Blacks at the last world cup final, fouled their way to victory in the closing stages. People need to take off the rose tinted spectacles.

feargale

frostyjacks wrote: »

There's no difference to what Tyrone do and what the likes of Meath did back in the day. It's about doing what needs to be done to win. Look at the All Blacks at the last world cup final, fouled their way to victory in the closing stages. People need to take off the rose tinted spectacles.

People need to divest themselves of whataboutery and grasp the nettles.

Nib

frostyjacks wrote: »

There's no difference to what Tyrone do and what the likes of Meath did back in the day. It's about doing what needs to be done to win. Look at the All Blacks at the last world cup final, fouled their way to victory in the closing stages. People need to take off the rose tinted spectacles.

I'm no fan of Meath, but I've never seen one of their players hit the deck as if he was gunned down after some one ruffled his hair. This current Tyrone team are toxic, there's no getting away from that no matter how much Tyrone apologists such as yourself spew nonsense.

Jayop

If this ban is true I could be just about done with gaa.

Nib

Jayop wrote: »

If this ban is true I could be just about done with gaa.

I agree.

A 16 week ban would be more appropriate.

Jayop

Conor Mortimor talking sense, but we're all paranoid up north.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Conmort/status/631227962378076160

Jayop

I'm not joking when I say if this happens I'd want Tyrone to boycott the game.

Jayop

I'll just leave this here.

http://www.balls.ie/gaa/gifs-following-michael-shields-fall-recalling-3-other-notorious-dives-in-the-gaa/302098

KrustyUCC

Stoner wrote: »

I'm going to take an example from a game I was at. Hopefully the Cork lads can see past the fact that I'm talking about a Cork player , it could be anyone but its the best example I saw this year.

In the league finals a certain Cork player attempted to injure two opposing players out with an elbow and a punch. The elbow made it to the Sunday game , the punch never transferred from TNG although it was picked up in their analysis.

No action was taken retrospectivly. The elbow on Connelly was right in front of the linesman. I'm not singling out Cork or a particular player. But I would rather have my hair adjusted than my jaw off the ball.

My county has had its own issues but what we saw there was off the ball stuff with intent to injure. Yet only half it made the analysis, I can only guess that if this was a Tyrone player (not any Ulster player) that RTE would have shown both incidents, TNG showed both.

Why can one county player get away with trying to damage two players while another gets a ban for diving. There is something wrong if there's a ban given out for this when worse , or very similar has gone on elsewhere.

This can't come in now imho

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2015/0612/707583-corks-osullivan-suspended-for-clash-with-clare/

He did get a ban

I can't argue that he didn't deserve a suspension but he did not get off scott free

It was misreported

2moreMinutes

Jayop wrote: »

I'm not joking when I say if this happens I'd want Tyrone to boycott the game.

If nothing else, it'll extend Tyrones persecution complex out for another good ten years.

Jayop

2moreMinutes wrote: »

If nothing else, it'll extend Tyrones persecution complex out for another good ten years.

Yeah sure it's pure paranoia.

Dude, go wum someone else.

dixiefly

Jayop wrote: »

If that's the case then it's simply disgusting and much worse than the actual dive. As I said above I'd be all in favour of harsh punishments for diving, but you can't just decide 3/4's the way though the year to start punishing one player just because O'Rourke lost his **** on the Sunday game. It should be introduced at the start of next year and it should be made clear to every county what's happening.

Where'd you hear this?

I cant agree.

It was blatant cheating and definitely brought the game into disrepute.

I am not an expert on he rulebook but people have been suspended for bringing the game into disrepute before so I would agree with an 8 week ban, sounds about right.

frostyjacks

feargale wrote: »

People need to divest themselves of whataboutery and grasp the nettles.

There are no manly fouls or unmanly fouls, only fouls. GAA need to apply the rules consistently or not at all.

wackokid

Why are people missing the fact that Hughes was RED carded for his dangerous tackle on Colm Cavanagh and NOT for his hairdressing skills. Duffy already had the red card in his greasy little paw before McCann went down.
The game is already in disrepute and it's not because of the players. Croke Park take a bow.

Ceist_Beag

dixiefly wrote: »

I cant agree.

It was blatant cheating and definitely brought the game into disrepute.

I am not an expert on he rulebook but people have been suspended for bringing the game into disrepute before so I would agree with an 8 week ban, sounds about right.

It is already covered in the rulebook - diving is a yellow card offence - see GAA Rules & Regulations, point 4 under Cautionable Infractions (Yellow Cards) - 4. To attempt to achieve an advantage by feigning a foul or injury.

Introducing a retrospective 8 week ban for a yellow card offence is madness of the highest order and complete populism on behalf of the CCCC, if true! It sets a very dangerous precedent.