Tramore Valley Park

Ludo

Treviso wrote: »

I see what you're saying but to only have only pedestrian/cyclist entrance to a park is crazy. Half moon street is walkable from town, Douglas entrance isn't. People wouldn't be incline to get a bus to go for a walk/run

The pedestrian bridge over the link wouldn't necessarily be for park and ride people, it would give access to those in the Togher region. The original project had another bridge linking Vernon Mount to this park. This would allow those in the Grange/Frankfield to easily access the park and even commute to work through it

Yeah...fair enough. Those are good points.

namloc1980

Mefistofelino wrote: »

This is true but I reckon a huge percentage of the users of the Regional Park do so by car, particularly at weekends. The West carpark is utter chaos, the Innishmore Park one is little better. Is TVP *that* much worse by comparison?

And given that a large number of users will continue to "drive to a walking place", is opening a second access, via Half Moon Lane, Palaceanne Lawn or Heatherton, creating a risk of those areas becoming de facto overflow carparks?

I would argue a huge portion of users of the Ballincollig park do so on foot from the local area. Many drive but many walk, cycle etc. Tramore is substantially worse. There are people living relatively close to the park who cannot access it without a car. They potentially would need to take 2 buses to get to Douglas just to get to the pedestrian access. Farcical.

snotboogie

Treviso wrote: »

I see what you're saying but to only have only pedestrian/cyclist entrance to a park is crazy. Half moon street is walkable from town, Douglas entrance isn't. People wouldn't be inclined to get a bus to go for a walk/run

The pedestrian bridge over the link wouldn't necessarily be for park and ride people, it would give access to those in the Togher region. The original project had another bridge linking Vernon Mount to this park. This would allow those in the Grange/Frankfield to easily access the park and even commute to work through it

I didn't know the Vernon Mount link had been scrapped?

sheff_

Treviso wrote: »

The original project had another bridge linking Vernon Mount to this park. This would allow those in the Grange/Frankfield to easily access the park and even commute to work through it

Useless for commuting though unless the half moon lane gets opened

Treviso

snotboogie wrote: »

I didn't know the Vernon Mount link had been scrapped?

Not scrapped but there's been no update on it for ages. Seems like the link between Black ash and the park is the priority. That Vernon Mount link would be so beneficial for myself personally but I don't see it happening for quite some time

Treviso

sheff_ wrote: »

Useless for commuting though unless the half moon lane gets opened

agree

bingo9999

sheff_ wrote: »

Useless for commuting though unless the half moon lane gets opened

Which is the biggest part of the whole thing, yes nice park facilitates etc. would be nice but ultimately that is a bonus. If you think of all the housing in Douglas, Frankfield, etc. for which this park is the only thing between them and town, you can so quickly create a safe walk/cycle route for all of that with no cribbing about protected cycle lanes, a solid desirable green access route to the city for anyone that wants to do it that way. Green credentials all that jazz throw away because of a gate, for a year or more.

hans aus dtschl

Ludo wrote: »

What is the issue with getting the bus to Douglas and walking from there? Similar to getting a bus to Half Moon Lane or park and ride and walking there in the future really.
If you are going there by bus, then odds are you are going for a walk or run anyway so getting there via the pathway from Douglas is part of the walk/run.
Really not seeing the issue if you are coming to it from town.

From town, you'd basically be getting the bus in order to go past the park in order to walk back to the park. It's a crazy situation.

Aside from the West (black ash) and South (Vernonmount/Amberlea) pedestrian access which at least would cost some degree of design effort and money for bridges and other structures, the lack of Half Moon Lane or other Northern access is ridiculous. Because it's considered absolutely fine to drive all the way down that lane to access the pitch and putt, but unacceptable to walk or cycle down that lane to access the park.

bingo9999 wrote: »

Green credentials all that jazz throw away because of a gate, for a year or more.

That's exactly it. Another low-hanging fruit sustainable transport project on the back burner.

opus

Treviso wrote: »

Not scrapped but there's been no update on it for ages. Seems like the link between Black ash and the park is the priority. That Vernon Mount link would be so beneficial for myself personally but I don't see it happening for quite some time

That's not my understanding (for what it's worth). No plans for a link to the car park whereas there is one for the bridge to Frankfield.

From the city centre, it adds around over 3km (each way) to the journey not having the entrance on Half Moon Lane open.

Ludo

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

From town, you'd basically be getting the bus in order to go past the park in order to walk back to the park. It's a crazy situation.

Disagree on that..you are gonna have to walk either way so going past is makes no odds. It might not be 100% ideal...but it is far from crazy as you refer to it. You are going for a walk anyway so no big deal.

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Aside from the West (black ash) and South (Vernonmount/Amberlea) pedestrian access which at least would cost some degree of design effort and money for bridges and other structures, the lack of Half Moon Lane or other Northern access is ridiculous. Because it's considered absolutely fine to drive all the way down that lane to access the pitch and putt, but unacceptable to walk or cycle down that lane to access the park.

The pitch and putt club has a car park though so it doesn't cause an obstruction. Causing obstruction is part of the reason the gate is not opened. People will drive to it and park on the narrow lane blocking it. You cannot compare the two.

the beer revolu

Ludo wrote: »

Disagree on that..you are gonna have to walk either way so going past is makes no odds. It might not be 100% ideal...but it is far from crazy as you refer to it. You are going for a walk anyway so no big deal.



The pitch and putt club has a car park though so it doesn't cause an obstruction. Causing obstruction is part of the reason the gate is not opened. People will drive to it and park on the narrow lane blocking it. You cannot compare the two.

If I'm going for a walk without taking the car, I don't want to be getting on a bus, either.
From my home to half moon Lane and back is very walkable , Douglas not so much.

Just put up cameras and strictly enforce parking restrictions. People will learn quickly.

bingo9999

Ludo wrote: »

Disagree on that..you are gonna have to walk either way so going past is makes no odds. It might not be 100% ideal...but it is far from crazy as you refer to it. You are going for a walk anyway so no big deal.



The pitch and putt club has a car park though so it doesn't cause an obstruction. Causing obstruction is part of the reason the gate is not opened. People will drive to it and park on the narrow lane blocking it. You cannot compare the two.

A few bollards and/or active parking enforcement would sort that quickly

namloc1980

bingo9999 wrote: »

A few bollards and/or active parking enforcement would sort that quickly

Unfortunately the council have shown a complete lack of willingness to address traffic and parking enforcement in the city. No reason to believe that they'd suddenly start enforcing at Half Moon Lane.

hans aus dtschl

Ludo wrote: »

Disagree on that..you are gonna have to walk either way so going past is makes no odds. It might not be 100% ideal...but it is far from crazy as you refer to it. You are going for a walk anyway so no big deal.

That's just not true.
You might have to walk 6km extra or else pay to use the bus. That's only "no big deal" if you don't care about people accessing it on foot! It is crazy. When was the last time you walked 6km in order to start your walk? I'm willing to take a gamble here and say never. I certainly never have. I don't think I ever will. It's the same distance round-trip from Grand Parade as it would take to walk to Ballincollig!

Ludo wrote: »

The pitch and putt club has a car park though so it doesn't cause an obstruction. Causing obstruction is part of the reason the gate is not opened. People will drive to it and park on the narrow lane blocking it. You cannot compare the two.

What you're saying here is that pedestrians shouldn't get access because motorists can't be trusted to drive their vehicles within the confines of the law?

Ludo

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

That's just not true.
You might have to walk 6km extra or else pay to use the bus. That's only "no big deal" if you don't care about people accessing it on foot! It is crazy. When was the last time you walked 6km in order to start your walk? I'm willing to take a gamble here and say never. I certainly never have. I don't think I ever will. It's the same distance round-trip from Grand Parade as it would take to walk to Ballincollig!

In fairness I was referring to your original poast where you said:

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

And you can't get public transport walk or cycle there without going down the link dual carriageway or out to Douglas.

Hence, this was all based (to me anyway) on getting public transport being a viable option...which it is. Obviously you are not going to walk 6km extra.
Crossed wires there I guess as I didn't even see the word "walk" in there until right now.

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

What you're saying here is that pedestrians shouldn't get access because motorists can't be trusted to drive their vehicles within the confines of the law?

I don't believe I said it shouldn't be opened. I simply pointed out the reason it isn't and also pointed out that the comparison to the pitch and putt club was invalid.

I believe it should be opened which I am sure it will be eventually.

hans aus dtschl

Ludo wrote: »

I don't believe I said it shouldn't be opened. I simply pointed out the reason it isn't and also pointed out that the comparison to the pitch and putt club was invalid.

I believe it should be opened which I am sure it will be eventually.

I appreciate that YOU aren't saying that it shouldn't be opened.
That dubious accolade belongs to the city council, who are saying that pedestrian access can't be provided because of issues relating to motorised vehicles! It's pure cop-out stuff, as far as I'm concerned.

I have no truck with the pitch and putt club whatsoever. The mention of the pitch and putt club was because of the following detail from the Echo:

Ms O’Sullivan has said that “the lane is completely unsafe for pedestrians and cyclists using it to access Tramore Valley Park and considerable improvement works are required to bring it up to a safe standard.

“It is also important to note that providing an access to the park from Half Moon Lane will also attract visitors arriving by car and, given that there is no dedicated parking area, cars are likely to be abandoned along the narrow lane creating a serious obstruction for other vehicles using the lane to access their premises and for parents dropping and collecting school children,” she added.

She said that significant volumes of traffic already use the laneway as it serves Christ King Girls Secondary School, as well as a number of commercial premises, including the ESB, a pitch & putt club, one residential property and a large City Council Depot.

In her words, the lane is completely unsafe for pedestrians and cyclists to use to access Tramore Valley Park because of the large volumes of vehicular traffic on the lane. So the current plan is to facilitate parking on the lane for dropping and collecting school children, by preventing parking on the lane for accessing the park, by preventing pedestrians from accessing the park.

In a normally-functioning city the action here would be to resolve the issue of large volumes of vehicular traffic on the road and if necessary deem it unsuitable for said vehicular traffic. In cork, we deem it unsuitable for the pedestrians! We work to a kind of backwards version of DMURS here, thanks!

hans aus dtschl

Ludo wrote: »

Hence, this was all based (to me anyway) on getting public transport being a viable option...which it is. Obviously you are not going to walk 6km extra.
Crossed wires there I guess as I didn't even see the word "walk" in there until right now.

Pedestrians are supposed to be the primary intended user group!

I agree public transport is a perfectly viable option IF you are willing to pay for it. Or get a taxi. You could buy a car and drive to the park, too. It depends on how much you want to pay. The basic problem is that most people need motorised transport to access the park.

I must point out that in all of this, I have a car and can drive to the park: I'm actually not directly affected at all. My issue is with the idea that it's OK to have only a single pedestrian access to the park, and that this pedestrian access be at the furthest point from the city.

opus

The council had a masterplan & years to figure this out, unbelievable they after only doing this now.

Council keen to open up access to Tramore Valley Park but work unlikely in the short term

Treviso

I wonder when they plan to appoint consultants to look at the pedestrian bridge over the N40, might be able to use it when I retire maybe

The most logical pedestrian access they could target immediately is to continue the walkway that ends at harvey norman into the park, there is plenty of tunnels from togher to that point, improve the whole walkway including the tunnel where you cant see out the other end when you enter it cos it turns

The half moon will be a battle for a while

Treviso

Deleted User wrote: »

The most logical pedestrian access they could target immediately is to continue the walkway that ends at harvey norman into the park, there is plenty of tunnels from togher to that point, improve the whole walkway including the tunnel where you cant see out the other end when you enter it cos it turns

The half moon will be a battle for a while

I reckon they were planning to do this as they built a pedestrian path going towards that underbridge of the South link road in the park. They even have a sign saying pedestrians pointing that way. Probably some red tape or H&S concerns put a stop to it.

Not sure why that walkway can't get more investment when new greenways are being built and existing ones are getting a lot of improvements

TheChizler

Treviso wrote: »

I reckon they were planning to do this as they built a pedestrian path going towards that underbridge of the South link road in the park. They even have a sign saying pedestrians pointing that way. Probably some red tape or H&S concerns put a stop to it.

Not sure why that walkway can't get more investment when new greenways are being built and existing ones are getting a lot of improvements

It's used occasionally for special events and they use the park and ride for extra parking.

opus

Tracked down the "masterplan" from 2012, some amount of wishful thinking in there! The interesting thing is that every single map shows entry via Half Moon Lane, one might thing 8 years was long enough to have that in place but guess not :rolleyes:

okedoke

Treviso wrote: »

I reckon they were planning to do this as they built a pedestrian path going towards that underbridge of the South link road in the park. They even have a sign saying pedestrians pointing that way. Probably some red tape or H&S concerns put a stop to it.

Not sure why that walkway can't get more investment when new greenways are being built and existing ones are getting a lot of improvements

where's the under bridge on the South Link ?

hans aus dtschl

okedoke wrote: »

where's the under bridge on the South Link ?

There's a dual carriageway road bridge over the Tramore river directly south of the South Link entrance to Tramore Valley Park. Literally at the Southern extent of the Black Ash Park & Ride. I do not know if this is passable.

Treviso

opus wrote: »

Tracked down the "masterplan" from 2012, some amount of wishful thinking in there! The interesting thing is that every single map shows entry via Half Moon Lane, one might thing 8 years was long enough to have that in place but guess not :rolleyes:

Thanks for that, had it linked before but lost it once city council updated their website. Going through it again is really pie in the sky stuff.

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

There's a dual carriageway road bridge over the Tramore river directly south of the South Link entrance to Tramore Valley Park. Literally at the Southern extent of the Black Ash Park & Ride. I do not know if this is passable.

In the masterplan, on page 56 they have it as a pedestrian access but looks like major work is needed. Of the 4 pedestrian accesses on that masterplan, only 1 is opened! The other 3 are nowhere near ready, considering what they say they need to do to open half moon

opus

The infamous pedestrian entrance to TVP from Half Moon Lane, took a jog down there this morning for a look.



Only reason the vehicle gate is open is that a council van had just driven in, the pedestrian entrance is well locked up to the right.

What's bizarre is that if you head back towards town from Half Moon Lane, the council has no problem with having pedestrians walk across the entrance/exit from the South Link Road with zero crossing facilities. Yet Half Moon Lane is too dangerous for people to access on foot

Ludo

opus wrote: »

What's bizarre is that if you head back towards town from Half Moon Lane, the council has no problem with having pedestrians walk across the entrance/exit from the South Link Road with zero crossing facilities. Yet Half Moon Lane is too dangerous for people to access on foot

Not really that bizarre. Very little foot traffic crosses that road. The vast, vast majority of foot traffic is on the other side of the South Douglas Road at that point. There are pedestrian crossings further up and down the road also to facilitate this. Anyone generally coming out of Half Moon Lane heading towards town will just use the crossing right there.

opus

I didn't as just stayed on the footpath after coming up the lane & turning left into town. Did see the crossing before the HSE car park but didn't see any after than nor any sign saying one should cross the road.

I'd be surprised if someone coming out of the gated Lios Na Greine apartments heading to town would walk back towards Douglas first but then I don't live in the area so will bow to local knowledge.

opus

Fingers crossed.

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