What's The Story Mickey Harte?

dixiefly

Mickey Harte, I actually always liked him but he cannot condone the cheating that went on yesterday.

That said, Tyrone were much the better team but didnt need to resort to cheating here at the end.

What are peoples thoughts? Does he actually condone this stuff or, worse still, is this part of his match strategy?

Genuine question, I wouldnt have thought it but i am starting to wonder.

Let's hope the GAA listen to O Rourke, Whelan, Brolly etc and charge Tiernan McCann with bringing the game into disrepute and give him a ban.

ColeTrain

Of course he condones it. If he was against cynical tactics and theatrics, he would have stamped it out years ago.

keeponhurling

Nice guys finish last - being competant in black arts is a must if you have serious hopes of an All-Ireland.

jjdonegal

dixiefly wrote: »

Mickey Harte, I actually always liked him but he cannot condone the cheating that went on yesterday.

That said, Tyrone were much the better team but didnt need to resort to cheating here at the end.

What are peoples thoughts? Does he actually condone this stuff or, worse still, is this part of his match strategy?

Genuine question, I wouldnt have thought it but i am starting to wonder.

Let's hope the GAA listen to O Rourke, Whelan, Brolly etc and charge Tiernan McCann with bringing the game into disrepute and give him a ban.

I see where you are coming from but have to disagree with the ban. Why no uproar when Michael Shields took a horrendous dive a few weeks back?
Diving needs to be stamped out but it has to be a decision made at the start of thr year and not a reaction to the disgraceful actions of a player late in the season.
If McCann gets the book thrown at him then I'd count him unlucky.
I'd be asking serious questions of Marty Duffy - a disaster of a ref who was standing 10 feet away.

yop

keeponhurling wrote: »

Nice guys finish last - being competant in black arts is a must if you have serious hopes of an All-Ireland.

Absolutely, it was always said that Mayo were too nice on the pitch, they've changed that over the years and if it delivers an AI then I can't see anyone apologising for it.

As for the thread, daftness of the highest order. If your at it then your as well to bring in another bucket load of managers over the years.

jjdonegal

yop wrote: »

Absolutely, it was always said that Mayo were too nice on the pitch, they've changed that over the years and if it delivers an AI then I can't see anyone apologising for it.

As for the thread, daftness of the highest order. If your at it then your as well to bring in another bucket load of managers over the years.

True. Excellent points on both instances.

keeponhurling

jjdonegal wrote: »

I'd be asking serious questions of Marty Duffy - a disaster of a ref who was standing 10 feet away.

True. If he saw it, he should see it was only rustling the other lad's hair.
If he didn't see it, he can't give a red card.

dixiefly

yop wrote: »

Absolutely, it was always said that Mayo were too nice on the pitch, they've changed that over the years and if it delivers an AI then I can't see anyone apologising for it.

As for the thread, daftness of the highest order. If your at it then your as well to bring in another bucket load of managers over the years.

Well, you do have a point and I suppose I started it in utter frustration after watching a rerun of the game again,.

yop

dixiefly wrote: »

Well, you do have a point and I suppose I started it in utter frustration after watching a rerun of the game again,.

Ah ya I didn't mean to sound like a deekhead about it, and yes watching that game was shocking. We had a few kids with us and in the end I was tempted to just take them away from the game as it was no show piece for the game.

ColeTrain

yop wrote: »

Ah ya I didn't mean to sound like a deekhead about it, and yes watching that game was shocking. We had a few kids with us and in the end I was tempted to just take them away from the game as it was no show piece for the game.

There was a woman sellling 'Tyrone Blindfolds' for a fiver down Jones Road, you should have bought a few.

yop

ColeTrain wrote: »

There was a woman sellling 'Tyrone Blindfolds' for a fiver down Jones Road, you should have bought a few.

She was selling as a spin off from 50 Shades of Grey!

aidan24326

yop wrote: »

Absolutely, it was always said that Mayo were too nice on the pitch, they've changed that over the years and if it delivers an AI then I can't see anyone apologising for it.

As for the thread, daftness of the highest order. If your at it then your as well to bring in another bucket load of managers over the years.

Sure, but the thread is not about all those other managers, it's about Mickey Harte and Tyrone. Yes other teams are guilty of the black arts from time to time but Tyrone have been at this sort of cynical stuff for years and even when they had a great team in 03-08 era they were at it then too.

So it's reasonable to suggest that Mickey Harte, for all that he seems a nice guy, condones this nonsense, since his Tyrone teams have been one of the worst offenders throughout his management tenure.

All in all it was an ugly spectacle as football match, and thankfully Mayo and Donegal produced something more resembling a decent game of football.

dirkmeister

keeponhurling wrote: »

True. If he saw it, he should see it was only rustling the other lad's hair.
If he didn't see it, he can't give a red card.

I thought the red card was to do with the Tyrone lad who was panned out on the ground and not for the attempted hair cut.

frostyjacks

There's no way Harte encourages the darker side of Tyrone's play. It looks like something players do off the cuff. Not a chance of McCann getting suspended, why should he be singled out?

Poor_old_gill

frostyjacks wrote: »

There's no way Harte encourages the darker side of Tyrone's play. It looks like something players do off the cuff. Not a chance of McCann getting suspended, why should he be singled out?

sure thing mate- it's not like its been a persistent problem throughout his tenure and is now added to by the fact that some of his selectors seem to be getting involved too. Sure isn't Mickey a lovely, innocent oul soul.

tayto lover

Was there only one team playing?

frostyjacks

frostyjacks wrote: »

There's no way Harte encourages the darker side of Tyrone's play.

I think the opposite, I think the fact that it has happened constantly during his tenure, and you can now see the spread to their underage and club teams, shows that it's not just some spontaneous acts on the part of players but part of a system with Harte at the centre of it. It's worked, I'm just not sure that it's necessary at all, the team of the 00s were excellent and he should have trusted their ability to create more than he trusted their ability to destroy.

ultrapercy

Nice guy me hole, bit like Saint Sean Boylan the patron saint of healing and niceness who also sold everone a pup.

yop

aidan24326 wrote: »

Sure, but the thread is not about all those other managers, it's about Mickey Harte and Tyrone. Yes other teams are guilty of the black arts from time to time but Tyrone have been at this sort of cynical stuff for years and even when they had a great team in 03-08 era they were at it then too.

So it's reasonable to suggest that Mickey Harte, for all that he seems a nice guy, condones this nonsense, since his Tyrone teams have been one of the worst offenders throughout his management tenure.

All in all it was an ugly spectacle as football match, and thankfully Mayo and Donegal produced something more resembling a decent game of football.

Back in the 80's when the Dublin had Duff,Rock and Mullins and co they were as every bit as bad as Tyrone, there wasn't any call for Heffos head with regards this and as for the 1983 final, that will go down as one of the most shameful games played in Croker.
Then you call in Sean Boylan, reined over a Meath team with "hard" men, again causing havoc in many games.

So while Harte has to take the blame here, this isn't a new thing, just that players and fans to a lesser extent are more precious.

Sephiral

Every successful team has a touch of the dark side in them, but Tyrone are consistently involved in the most niggly games and have a large amount of the most blatant parts of cynical fouls. They are the worst offenders in the country and the only explanation is that it is a deliberate tactic. It puts a stain over them more than any other county in my eyes but it is not their fault they get away with it. The GAA should sort out some way of addressing the worst instances of gamemanship, but it should be done over the winter, not as a kneejerk reaction to the weekend.

Also, we need to stop the whataboutery and the criticising people for pointing out cheating. McCann taking a tumble because someone gave his hair a fumble is not justified by other example. It was wrong, it was cheating, end of.

yop

yop wrote: »

Back in the 80's when the Dublin had Duff,Rock and Mullins and co they were as every bit as bad as Tyrone, there wasn't any call for Heffos head with regards this and as for the 1983 final, that will go down as one of the most shameful games played in Croker.
Then you call in Sean Boylan, reined over a Meath team with "hard" men, again causing havoc in many games.

True, Meath were very hard.

But not sure they had a reputation for spitting, diving, cheating, or taunting based on the death of a player's father, as Tyrone have earned.

Maybe it's a male macho thing, but think people will nearly tolerate thuggery and violence more than the sneaky and snide. Which to be fair might not make sense, after all no one every broke a bone when spat at or someone makes jokes about their dead father.

padd b1975

ultrapercy wrote: »

Nice guy me hole, bit like Saint Sean Boylan the patron saint of healing and niceness who also sold everone a pup.

I laughed at his whinging when his charges came up against some real hard men in the international rules a few years back.

aveytare

Deleted User wrote: »

True, Meath were very hard.

But not sure they had a reputation for spitting, diving, cheating, or taunting based on the death of a player's father, as Tyrone have earned.

Maybe it's a male macho thing, but think people will nearly tolerate thuggery and violence more than the sneaky and snide. Which to be fair might not make sense, after all no one every broke a bone when spat at or someone makes jokes about their dead father.

Apparently similar things were said in those Meath vs Cork games in the late eighties. Sledging isn't new. Think there was still some animosity between the players involved in those matches until Meath players went to John Kerins' funeral.

archieknox

[Deleted User] wrote: »

True, Meath were very hard.

But not sure they had a reputation for spitting, diving, cheating, or taunting based on the death of a player's father, as Tyrone have earned.

Maybe it's a male macho thing, but think people will nearly tolerate thuggery and violence more than the sneaky and snide. Which to be fair might not make sense, after all no one every broke a bone when spat at or someone makes jokes about their dead father.

Is there anything off limits so? My god you have me blown away if the death of a loved one is brought to the table in an attempt to win. Sickening. And don't think I'm naive enough to not think that sledging doesn't exist as I've seen and heard plenty of it in my time but never to that level. Disgusting and should be named and shamed.

Stinicker

I think Mickey Harte is a really nice guy and I have great admiration for him, he is vocal about social issues (conservative), his family also had to endure the most appalling tragedy which you wouldn't wish upon your worst enemy. Kerry fans even stayed back in 2012 to applaud him after the sides last met. His teams footballing style however is absolutely horrible and it is a very unfortunate thing to besmirch such an honourable man, it really is a disgrace the way his players behave. I wouldn't hold him wholly responsible however, it is part of the footballing culture in Tyrone and we saw an awful brawl before involving Derrytresk and Mickey Harte had no part in that.

http://www.joe.ie/uncategorized/derrytresk-players-went-for-testicles-before-game-even-started/31495

I think it part of larger problem in Tyrone society (perhaps even related to the Troubles in Northern Ireland) and I have noticed that in all my games attended Tyrone supporters have been the most confrontational and have a largish minority hardcore of undesirables which only bring shame on the vast majority of Tyrone supporters who are absolutely salt of the earth nicest people you could meet. Their is still unfortunately that element with a confrontational attitude who go to games baying for blood and seem only at their happiest when there is fighting on the field. It is something bigger than the GAA and part of their culture in Tyrone wherby they are often on edge and wheras people from other counties would be far more restrained Tyrone it seems is always about to bring a riot with them win lose or draw.

This maybe a controversial opinion by me but I think what we see on the field of play is directly related to life off the field in Tyrone. Tyrone and Donegal also both have big problems with drivers in both counties, ask any driver in Ireland and they will tell you those two counties have alot of anti-social drivers and boyracer culture. There is a reckless attitude up there where certain people have a siege mentality and there answer when they feel threatened is to be confrontational and deliver all manner of threats being along the border they have adopted an el-dorado wild west type mentality.

aveytare

I think that's generalising to say the least. I'm from Tyrone as you know and I've never had any bother here. It's a sleepy enough part of the country and generally people who visit Healy Park have had nothing but good to say about their experience. Wouldn't say it's any better or any worse than anywhere else in Ireland really. People are people. It's funny how people stereotype counties/groups/whatever - for example, apparently Fermanagh people are realllllly nice and I've met my fair share of pricks from there.

Don't agree with the comment about the troubles, most young people couldn't give a stuff about that kinda thing. Have you been in Tyrone? It doesn't exactly have a reputation for being a dive or full of crime or whatever.

Not sure what happened you at a match but I think it'd be a small, small minority of people who'd bother someone like that.

Dirty Dingus McGee

yop wrote: »

Back in the 80's when the Dublin had Duff,Rock and Mullins and co they were as every bit as bad as Tyrone, there wasn't any call for Heffos head with regards this and as for the 1983 final, that will go down as one of the most shameful games played in Croker.
Then you call in Sean Boylan, reined over a Meath team with "hard" men, again causing havoc in many games.

So while Harte has to take the blame here, this isn't a new thing, just that players and fans to a lesser extent are more precious.

The difference with some teams today is the pure slyness of some of the antics.

I'd prefer seeing players getting absolutely creeled by an opponent than diving or feigning injury, slowing up play etc.At least a bit of rough and tumble can sometimes ad to the spectacle the stuff we saw on saturday takes away from the game.

QuinDixie

Tyrone do have an issue with this behaviour, the U21 game against tipp saw some awful carry on.
Sat saw some dreadful stuff from Tyrone players.
Nobody likes a cheater and this Tyrone team are full of them.

wackokid

A bit rich from Colm O Rourke to be castigating Tyrone's dark arts. He was a member of a Meath team well known for their 'take no prisoners' attitude. He hates Tyrone with a passion because they have hurt his pocket and will again.
No doubt Kerry will roll out the propaganda wagon in the next few weeks as they did for Alan O Connor after the draw in Killarney. Oh my God, this O Connor beast from Kaelkil will kill someone soon if referrees don't stop him. Every single one of them from Bomber to Micko to Darra to O Cinnéide, to Jacko, to Quirke spent the week blackening that decent man.
It started today on C103 with Palmer quoting O Rourke as a paragon of decency having a go at Tyrone last night on the Sunday Game. He then went on to tell us that Kerry would have 31 counties supporting them against Tyrone. What a complete gob sh1te he is.
Meyler was sent off in the wrong yesterday but no use telling that to people who are jealous of Tyrone. One would think that Monaghan were docile lambs and Tyrone were awful brutes if one didn't know better.
Kerry people have some neck to critisise McCann for diving when their own peacekeeper O Mahony was a disgrace in 2008 after a tap on the cheek from Donnca O Connor. I didn't hear O Rourke calling for him to be banned for bringing the game into disrepute.
The only lad bringing the game into disrepute yesterday was Duffy the ref.

wackokid

QuinDixie wrote: »

Tyrone do have an issue with this behaviour, the U21 game against tipp saw some awful carry on.
Sat saw some dreadful stuff from Tyrone players.
Nobody likes a cheater and this Tyrone team are full of them.

I didn't see any Tyrone player deliberately stamp on a Tipp player lying on the ground. People conveniently forget these things and love to blacken Tyrone. They give what they get and fair play to them. They were hammered for long enough bu the big boys. Not no more TG

aveytare

QuinDixie wrote: »

Tyrone do have an issue with this behaviour, the U21 game against tipp saw some awful carry on.
Sat saw some dreadful stuff from Tyrone players.
Nobody likes a cheater and this Tyrone team are full of them.

What actually happened in the U21 game that was so bad? Pinpoint incidents because I don't get what Tyrone did so wrong in that match. Yesterday's match descended into farce in the last 5-10 minutes (a la Kerry vs Mayo last year, Dublin vs Mayo in 2013). but the U21 match wasn't particularly cynical, unless I missed something.

QuinDixie

aveytare wrote: »

What actually happened in the U21 game that was so bad? Pinpoint incidents because I don't get what Tyrone did so wrong in that match. Yesterday's match descended into farce in the last 5-10 minutes (a la Kerry vs Mayo last year, Dublin vs Mayo in 2013). but the U21 match wasn't particularly cynical, unless I missed something.

the tipp management would not let the tyrone management into the dressing room after the game. Tyrone players were running their mouths off the whole game, and the last 10 minutes saw some of the most cynical play you will ever see.
But how players conduct themselves says a lot about a county in general.

aveytare

QuinDixie wrote: »

the tipp management would not let the tyrone management into the dressing room after the game. Tyrone players were running their mouths off the whole game, and the last 10 minutes saw some of the most cynical play you will ever see.
But how players conduct themselves says a lot about a county in general.

The last 10 minutes weren't particularly cynical. It's bollocks basically. Yesterday's match was cynical in the last 10 minutes, the U21 final wasn't. Never heard so much complaining about a match that wasnt even that dirty. In fact the worst incident was a Tipp player stamping on Cathal McShane. I think half the people who bring up the U21 match didn't actually watch it (not suggesting you didn't). Most Tipperary fans didn't even complain that much.

Says a lot about a county in general, Jesus Christ. It's like Stinicker's rant earlier where he psychoanalysed Tyrone people despite probably never being in the county.

QuinDixie

aveytare wrote: »

The last 10 minutes weren't particularly cynical. It's bollocks basically. Yesterday's match was cynical in the last 10 minutes, the U21 final wasn't. Never heard so much complaining about a match that wasnt even that dirty. In fact the worst incident was a Tipp player stamping on Cathal McShane.

Says a lot about a county in general, Jesus Christ.

But it does, you play without dignity and you will never be let live it down.
Ryan McMenamin step forward.:)

aveytare

QuinDixie wrote: »

But it does, you play without dignity and you will never be let live it down.

Oh no

QuinDixie

aveytare wrote: »

Oh no

oh yes. Colm O rourke was right to let them have it last night.
Cheaters, the whole squad including management.
That famous goal for Meath against Louth, highest level of cheating.
That dive from the tyrone boy, highest level of cheating.
Some supporters, who are cheaters themselves, dont care about this and have a winning is everything mentality.
Fair enough for you, its not for me.

aveytare

QuinDixie wrote: »

oh yes. Colm O rourke was right to let them have it last night.
Cheaters, the whole squad including management.
That famous goal for Meath against Louth, highest level of cheating.
That dive from the tyrone boy, highest level of cheating.
Some supporters, who are cheaters themselves, dont care about this and have a winning is everything mentality.
Fair enough for you, its not for me.

The supporters are cheaters as well?

yogi37

aidan24326 wrote: »

Sure, but the thread is not about all those other managers, it's about Mickey Harte and Tyrone. Yes other teams are guilty of the black arts from time to time but Tyrone have been at this sort of cynical stuff for years and even when they had a great team in 03-08 era they were at it then too.

So it's reasonable to suggest that Mickey Harte, for all that he seems a nice guy, condones this nonsense, since his Tyrone teams have been one of the worst offenders throughout his management tenure.

All in all it was an ugly spectacle as football match, and thankfully Mayo and Donegal produced something more resembling a decent game of football.

This type of carry on is typical of the Tyrone team over the past few years. I presume that Mickey Harte must condone this behaviour and clearly has instilled a 'win at all costs' mindframe into his panel of players. The black card is Mickey Harte's legacy on the game which is a terrible shame considering the terrific side he managed earlier in his management career.

NIMAN

Get used to it folks, the cheating has started and it's here to stay.

You really think they can stop it?

It's win at all costs, and players and managers, and fans, want to win.

Dirty Dingus McGee

NIMAN wrote: »

Get used to it folks, the cheating has started and it's here to stay.

You really think they can stop it?

It's win at all costs

It can be stopped if the GAA handed out severe punishments every time it happens, although that's highly unlikely to happen.

Paul Finlay and Tiernan McCann both should be suspended for the rest of the year but the GAA will as usual do nothing and then wonder why the players behaviour on the field doesn't improve.

QuinDixie

aveytare wrote: »

The supporters are cheaters as well?

Be honest, no REAL tyrone supporter enjoyed last Sat. due to the diving and cynicism.
There is many a Clare fan who wants Davy fitzgerald gone for his sideline behaviour, and he managed them in 2013 to an All Ireland.
Pride in your county and your Jersey comes before winning at all costs for true GAA supporters.
The fair weather supporters dont care how their county win, only they win and the beers flow.

sliabh beagh

QuinDixie wrote: »

Be honest, no REAL tyrone supporter enjoyed last Sat. due to the diving and cynicism.
There is many a Clare fan who wants Davy fitzgerald gone for his sideline behaviour, and he managed them in 2013 to an All Ireland.
Pride in your county and your Jersey comes before winning at all costs for true GAA supporters.
The fair weather supporters dont care how their county win, only they win and the beers flow.

you must be from mayo. be nice and win nothing.

QuinDixie

sliabh beagh wrote: »

you must be from mayo. be nice and win nothing.

I am not, but its better than being hated and still winning nothing.

ColeTrain

sliabh beagh wrote: »

you must be from mayo. be nice and win nothing.

A lot of counties wouldn't mind making five semi-finals in a row, along with five Connacht titles and the longest running Division 1 status. You could have picked a different county to have a go at it, in fairness.

harpsman

In terms of "cynicism/dirtyness/dark arts/dirty tricks" Tyrone of the Mickey Harte era are by far the worst offenders. They're not the most physically "dirty" because by and large theyre one of the smaller teams, but they make up for it with the sneaky, Knackery behaviour.
Just a selection of examples
Gooch bitten 03, Gooch eye gouged 05, McGuigan tripping Greg McCartan 04, Philip Jordan getting Marsden sent off 03, the antics on Saturday, the antics in Ballybofey, slagging a minor about his dead father, McMenamin spitting on Kerry players in a league match, the spitting etc in those junior club matches against the Kerry teams, Cavanaghs years of diving, the rugby tackle on McManus, Brian McGuigan getting blindsided by his own county man in a challenge match sustaining an eye injury so bad the surgeon compared it to people who had been beaten with baseball bats.
Thats just a sample count btw.

All the other top teams( and I would consider Monaghan to be the next worst offender, hence lack of sympathy for them, particularly the Hughes brothers!) have been guilty of various similar offences over the years but the total of the rest put together still wouldnt equal Tyrones list of misdemeanours.

What actually sickened me most this year was the sanctimonious whinging all overthe airwaves from Saint Sean and St Peter about the bad language theyve had to listen to from other teams and Peter using his newspaper column to have another whinge about Meath 96 the day Tyrone played Meath.

Apologies for repeat post but theres about 4 threads on same subject.

theoneeyedman

yop wrote: »

Ah ya I didn't mean to sound like a deekhead about it, and yes watching that game was shocking. We had a few kids with us and in the end I was tempted to just take them away from the game as it was no show piece for the game.

WON'T SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!,

keep going

lads would ye get over yourselves,there s plenty of other teams at this stuff every game and always was,tyrone are no different to Kerry or any other successful teams out there because in the big games its all about inchs but the reality is if you are not good enough this carry on wont win it on its own.

frostyjacks

QuinDixie wrote: »

Be honest, no REAL tyrone supporter enjoyed last Sat. due to the diving and cynicism.
There is many a Clare fan who wants Davy fitzgerald gone for his sideline behaviour, and he managed them in 2013 to an All Ireland.
Pride in your county and your Jersey comes before winning at all costs for true GAA supporters.
The fair weather supporters dont care how their county win, only they win and the beers flow.

I enjoyed the match, loved it. Of course the niggly incidents were unfortunate, but sometimes you have to get mean if you want to win. I'd rather have a bit of nastiness in a team and win, than a team of boy scouts that only get so far before being bullied out of it.

yop

sliabh beagh wrote: »

you must be from mayo. be nice and win nothing.

Have some manners, going by previous posts and warnings you don't, but at least get the facts right.

QuinDixie

frostyjacks wrote: »

I enjoyed the match, loved it. Of course the niggly incidents were unfortunate, but sometimes you have to get mean if you want to win. I'd rather have a bit of nastiness in a team and win, than a team of boy scouts that only get so far before being bullied out of it.

There is one thing having a physically tough team. I love that in gaelic football.
Manly football. what Tyrone do is not play manly, they are cowards.
Diving, verbal abuse, trying to get players carded .
all counties have isolated incidents of cheating, and that should see lengthy bans, but Tyrone football uses cheating as a tactic.
And its no wonder that tyrone players get very little acknowledgement or respect for those 3 all irelands.

wackokid

QuinDixie wrote: »

There is one thing having a physically tough team. I love that in gaelic football.
Manly football. what Tyrone do is not play manly, they are cowards.
Diving, verbal abuse, trying to get players carded .
all counties have isolated incidents of cheating, and that should see lengthy bans, but Tyrone football uses cheating as a tactic.
And its no wonder that tyrone players get very little acknowledgement or respect for those 3 all irelands.

What part of Kerry are you from?