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Nissan Leaf

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 577 ✭✭✭simdan


    I had very low charge driving to work during the week.. Didn't bother me in the slightest.. Who cares about Range Anxiety? lol

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1_715h_7vA


  • Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭Caillte


    How are all you getting on with you leafs? I'd love to buy one.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,278 ✭✭✭mordeith


    Caillte wrote: »
    How are all you getting on with you leafs? I'd love to buy one.

    Very dependent on your travel behaviour. We bought a used leaf as a second car and it's great for all our local journeys and my wife's work commute. We still use the ICE for long trips but would definitely consider going back to a one car scenario when range reaches 300km +


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Caillte wrote: »
    How are all you getting on with you leafs? I'd love to buy one.

    I have a 135 Km commute and charge at work, I've 50,300 kms driven since January 15th 2015.

    Most of your charging is done via your home charge point and sometimes if you take a long trip you use the public charge points, we use the diesel for the long runs.

    Range is about 110-140 kms Winter/Summer in the 24 Kwh leaf and about 130-150 Kms in the 30 Kwh Leaf.

    A 40 Kwh renault Zoe will be available to order from November, this will give about 220-280 kms range on a single charge and seriously worth considering. It's unknown yet whether you will have to lease the battery or not.

    If you are buying new then it's seriously worth considering the 40 Kwh Zoe, just remember there will be two options for charging, one with 22 Kw only and one with 44 Kw , I highly advise the 44 kw charger for faster charging on the run. Zoe also charges a lot faster at normal charge points than the Leaf or any other EV available in Ireland.

    If you hold off another while it's "rumoured" a 40 kwh leaf is going to be released also possibly early 2017, and it's also possible a new model leaf with "up to" 330-380 kms range will be available 2018.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭peposhi


    Caillte wrote: »
    How are all you getting on with you leafs? I'd love to buy one.

    Absolutely love it, my wife is now a convert too (wants to get an EV as a company car).
    Range could be an issue if you do not plan well and FSPs or SCPs are out of order...
    Free charging around the country does make a difference though.
    Once we move to a 250km+ EV (in 2 years max) I will sell the spare ICE I kept for long journeys and will never look back.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,944 ✭✭✭✭Villain


    Car is fine but the public charging network is awful and current Government like previous ones don't care, the CER review is a disaster with the likely outcome that Ecars will own the network and can charge what they like as they will be the end user (wtf like!!).

    The resale value of the Leaf is awful as no-one wants to buy a 24kw model at present and same will happen with next gen, if you are thinking of buying a new Leaf make sure you are happy to keep it and not look to trade it in in a few years.


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Lol after the Government signing the Paris deal it's ICE owners who could get seriously burned in the not so distant future.

    IF I have to pout a couple of K to a new mode EV in 2018 I'm well prepared for it, the leaf is costing me about 200 PM including fuel savings.

    Over 51,000 i'd be surprised if the leaf cost me 400 to run given the free leccy at work and public charging.

    Very few car owners buy a new and don't suffer depreciation, I wouldn't like to buy a New A4 for instance !

    If I had to pay for PCP and Diesel it would cost me at least 200 PM more to run the car. Excluding more tax and maintenance.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,944 ✭✭✭✭Villain


    The issue is the A4 depreciation is pretty well known and stable, the depreciation on EV's is dependent on new models and tech, as the Nissan Dealer said to me last week he can't give away 24kw cars with the 30kw available now.

    It is pretty simple to understand, evolving technology in a market skews the resale value of older technology.

    I think PHEV is the way to go for the next 5 to 10 years, hopefully some decent affordable options come along soon!


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,633 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Villain wrote: »
    The issue is the A4 depreciation is pretty well known and stable, the depreciation on EV's is dependent on new models and tech, as the Nissan Dealer said to me last week he can't give away 24kw cars with the 30kw available now.

    It is pretty simple to understand, evolving technology in a market skews the resale value of older technology.

    I think PHEV is the way to go for the next 5 to 10 years, hopefully some decent affordable options come along soon!

    It's also affected by the Leaf buyers being more informed about what they're purchasing than many ICE purchasers.
    Most of them are sufficiently clued in to understand the difference between 24kw Leaf and 30Kw leaf.
    Nissan don't help here by having the battery capacity as the headline model differentiator.
    The equivalent differentiator in the ICE world is the 1.3/1.6/2.0 litre engine capacity which is more constant and less meaningful. You have to go to the 2nd level of vehicle data to get fuel consumption figures which still aren't as meaningful/useful as Leaf battery capacity.

    Finally, range anxiety remains one of the biggest concerns of potential EV purchasers and many will hold out for an improvement in technology that alleviates that concern.

    (Not very clearly put, it was clear in my head when I started :o)


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Anything with an engine ? Hell no.

    I hope a 60 kWh new model leaf is available when my lease is up or something else perhaps.

    Given the way things are going with emissions and diesels and the government signing the Paris deal I'd actually be a lot more concerned about diesel resale value in a few years.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭Caillte


    Anything with an engine ? Hell no.

    I hope a 60 kWh new model leaf is available when my lease is up or something else perhaps.

    Given the way things are going with emissions and diesels and the government signing the Paris deal I'd actually be a lot more concerned about diesel resale value in a few years.

    What was the value of the lease or €/month if you dont mind me asking?


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,944 ✭✭✭✭Villain


    PHEV solves Range Anxiety and most are Petrol so the diesel emissions aren't an issue there.

    As for Mad Lad and the Paris Deal, compare that with their lowered EV targets and lack of any extra incentive along with the CER report and I think you will find the Government couldn't give two sh1ts about EV's


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    I look at my father and he has a carport with electrical socket available. He only travels in to town and back out again and doesn't like travelling much further these days. It would be perfect for him and he has access to another car in the household for longer journeys if need be.
    The biggest attraction of the car is that it looks conventional rather than futuristic.

    EVs make no real financial sense for low mileage drivers, get a small cheap petrol


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    Villain wrote: »
    PHEV solves Range Anxiety and most are Petrol so the diesel emissions aren't an issue there.

    As for Mad Lad and the Paris Deal, compare that with their lowered EV targets and lack of any extra incentive along with the CER report and I think you will find the Government couldn't give two sh1ts about EV's

    There is NO CER REPORT, there is a 8 page CER consultive document that broadly asks for submissions that analyse both the CER policy and the ESB submission

    then their will be a CER report


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,944 ✭✭✭✭Villain


    BoatMad wrote: »
    There is NO CER REPORT, there is a 8 page CER consultive document that broadly asks for submissions that analyse both the CER policy and the ESB submission

    then their will be a CER report

    So their opinion on who the final customer is is only asking for submissions??

    Paul Mulvaney's comments also sound like plenty has been decided!!


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Caillte wrote: »
    What was the value of the lease or €/month if you dont mind me asking?

    For 30,000 Kms a year 458 PM inc 5K deposit. Diesel would have cost about 200-220 PM, then include oil and filter every 15,000 kms in the Prius.

    The leaf was a no brainer really, fuel is dirt cheap and with free work charging it costs even less. Why would I pay for an ICe car ? I don't need one nor do I want one.

    Technically speaking the leaf should meet my commute for 10 years and more with work charging possibly 15, technically speaking even with a 30% capacity loss.

    So in reality I don't need to get the new model Leaf, or any other EV but I would like a larger longer range EV for the times I need it. But commuting is by far the most of my mileage.

    I expect in 10 years a battery to cost 2K or less.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    Villain wrote: »
    So their opinion on who the final customer is is only asking for submissions??

    Paul Mulvaney's comments also sound like plenty has been decided!!

    I don't accept PM comments , the ESB are trying to bully CER

    Fundamentally at this stage the infrastructure is in effect in the control of the CER, who said for the whole system out of the levies on electricity payers.

    They have asked the ESB for submissions as to what too do next and the CER are consulting as to what to do

    The options are

    1. regulate the charger network by placing it in the RAB ( rathe like the grid) and the CER pays the ESB to maintain it , CER sets costs etc etc etc, user buys units if electricity just like at home

    2. sell it off to multiple private customers ( very unlikely as no hop elf medium term profitability )

    3. Sell it off to on single private customer ( unlikely for the same reasons )

    4. Give it to the ESB , with no regulation , ESB commercialise and are free to set whatever pricing regime they like, with no support from the CER for the network.

    4, is the preferred option and the worst outcome for users, as we morph back to Nov 2015 . No business case has been advanced that the network can be made profitable by the ESB.

    Im for option 1


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,944 ✭✭✭✭Villain


    If it's not option 1 we are screwed but reading the document it is going to be a tough job to convince the CER


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,533 ✭✭✭Padraig Mor


    BoatMad wrote: »

    4. Give it to the ESB , with no regulation , ESB commercialise and are free to set whatever pricing regime they like, with no support from the CER for the

    To be precise, Option 4 is ESB takes charge and then tender out supply of electricity to drivers to whichever company will pay the most, and who are then free to set whatever tariffs they like without the 'burden' of regulation.

    That couldn't be a bad thing for EV drivers could it? :rolleyes::(:mad:;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,070 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    BoatMad wrote: »
    I don't accept PM comments , the ESB are trying to bully CER

    Fundamentally at this stage the infrastructure is in effect in the control of the CER, who said for the whole system out of the levies on electricity payers.

    They have asked the ESB for submissions as to what too do next and the CER are consulting as to what to do

    The options are

    1. regulate the charger network by placing it in the RAB ( rathe like the grid) and the CER pays the ESB to maintain it , CER sets costs etc etc etc, user buys units if electricity just like at home

    2. sell it off to multiple private customers ( very unlikely as no hop elf medium term profitability )

    3. Sell it off to on single private customer ( unlikely for the same reasons )

    4. Give it to the ESB , with no regulation , ESB commercialise and are free to set whatever pricing regime they like, with no support from the CER for the network.

    4, is the preferred option and the worst outcome for users, as we morph back to Nov 2015 . No business case has been advanced that the network can be made profitable by the ESB.

    Im for option 1

    The consultation paper also says that you can submit other options as well. They are not limiting themselves to just the 4 proposed options.

    I'd be for status quo... i.e. get more funding for the next few years(via the DUoS they talk about), improve the network and then reassess again in 5years.

    Option 1 is OK too but not ideal. It has an element of charging for charging in it which will stop abuse but I think thats just a localised issue in a few places and not a general nationwide issue, so I think solving that localised problem isnt worth starting a whole charging regime.

    Keeping it free is a good incentive and we need more incentives, not less. Once we get enough EV's on the road look at charging then.

    I guess we shouldnt derail this thread.... over to the CER thread.... http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057659183


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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,070 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    Deedsie wrote: »
    What is the most likely date for the 40kwh or 60kwh model Leaf becoming available to Irish Markets?

    Is there an annual Nissan motoring show where these things are usually announced?

    Its just all speculation but based on Leaf 1 being 6yrs old already the expectation is something in 2018.


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Deedsie wrote: »
    What is the most likely date for the 40kwh or 60kwh model Leaf becoming available to Irish Markets?

    Is there an annual Nissan motoring show where these things are usually announced?

    My "guess" is that it will be announced in the Detroit Auto Show in January.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Deedsie wrote: »
    One other question, how long would it take to charge the different leaf batteries using a granny cable?

    You can do the maths yourself. The GC draws about 2.2kWh. Divide that into the battery capacity and add about 10% for losses.

    E.g. empty to full (which never happens in the real world) on a 24kw Leaf is about 12 hours. On a 30kw it's going to be closer to 14.5 hours.
    Deedsie wrote: »
    And does using a granny cable instead of a conventional cable impact on the performance of the battery at all?

    No.


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The granny cable isn't designed to be the primary means of charging, get a charge point installed and be done with it.

    I advise a 32 amp capable charge point if you get buy an EV with a 30 Kwh battery or more.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Not everyone can get a charge point installed tho. The first person I knew to buy a Leaf is living in a rented house and charges exclusively from the granny cable.


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    well if you have to you have to and it will most likely offer enough range over night. I made do with the granny cable for 6 days (2 x 3 days) test drive before I finally bought.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,070 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    I used the granny cable daily for 4 months and it was nearly always fully charged every morning using only night rate. A few occasions when I ran the car to low battery state I had to start the charge earlier outside night rate but the point is, it is entirely possible to use the granny cable as your sole means of charging.

    The EVSE is better of course. And if you happen to get a 6.6kW capable Leaf then the 32A EVSE is definitely recommended so you can get the most out of that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,070 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    Deedsie wrote: »
    I think I would like to have both cables in the car at all time. Just in case.

    I am really hopeful there will be a 60 kWh leaf released in 2018 at a reasonable price.

    What do you consider a reasonable price for a 60kWh Leaf?
    If you are expecting it to be similar to the current Leaf I think you will be disappointed! :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭BoatMad


    If you are expecting it to be similar to the current Leaf I think you will be disappointed!

    thats for sure, Nissan , will have to maintain residuals and its not in their interests to devalue existing models


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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,070 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    Deedsie wrote: »
    What would your suggested price plan be for 24kwh, 30kwh, 40 kWh and 60kwh?

    I know it's hard to answer just curious what people think it could cost

    My guess...

    24kWh will be gone and 30kWh will be the baseline at the current 24kWh price.

    Up from that they might provide a 40, 48 and 60 option in a new Leaf. Each increment will be several thousand more with the 60kWh being well beyond the current Leaf price... €40k+ wouldnt be beyond possibility for a 60kWh SVE spec.

    They charged €3k for the bump from 24 to 30. As things scale the price of batteries will decrease so they might be able to close that gap but you can do the math yourself based on that.


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