Doll exhumed from grave

cruais · 30-07-2015 12:11pm #1

This is bizarre and some serious questions need to be asked and answered. Starting with the undertakers.... I mean how do you get away with burying a doll.

Its the stuff of nightmares and sounds like something from a bad horror film.

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/doll-found-in-exhumed-grave-31414585.html

Menas · 30-07-2015 12:15pm

Was an undertaker was involved? It look to me like a troubled couple who invented a pregnancy and death...and then buried a doll in a coffin in a graveyard so they could have somewhere to go to mourn.
Very strange case...

Old Perry · 30-07-2015 12:16pm

How in the name of fook did they pull that off?

Stheno · 30-07-2015 12:16pm

Menas wrote: »

Was an undertaker was involved? It look to me like a troubled couple who invented a pregnancy and death...and then buried a doll in a coffin in a graveyard so they could have somewhere to go to mourn.
Very strange case...

I tthought the same it's weird

Old Perry · 30-07-2015 12:17pm

How in the name of fook did they pull that off?

The Backwards Man · 30-07-2015 12:18pm

Stuff of nightmares?

Bad horror film?

Bizarre?

It's none of these things, it's just a sad incident.

cruais · 30-07-2015 12:19pm

Menas wrote: »

Was an undertaker was involved? It look to me like a troubled couple who invented a pregnancy and death...and then buried a doll in a coffin in a graveyard so they could have somewhere to go to mourn.
Very strange case...

Thats what i was thinking. Theres obviously a mental disability with the couple. But how would they get a coffin without going to an undertakers?

So bizarre

30-07-2015 12:19pm

How did they pull it off? Quite easily. I can't imagine grave diggers go looking inside a coffin.

conorh91 · 30-07-2015 12:20pm

Is it sad though?

Such an odd story. I almost wanted to laugh, then I felt bad for finding it funny, then I thought, "wtf, nobody is actually dead..." No child existed.

Really don't know what to make of this. Depends on their motives/ state of mind. If it's psychological, leave them alone; if it's some kind of fraud...

cruais · 30-07-2015 12:21pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

How did they pull it off? Quite easily. I can't imagine grave diggers go looking inside a coffin.

But how did they get their hands on a coffin... its not as if they are on a weekly special in aldi.

Cant get my head around it.

I suppose time will tell when the investigation goes on.

Mesrine65 · 30-07-2015 12:22pm

Old Perry wrote: »

How in the name of fook did they pull that off?

Apparently...they didn't

iguana · 30-07-2015 12:22pm

cruais wrote: »

But how did they get their hands on a coffin... its not as if they are on a weekly special in aldi.

Cant get my head around it.

http://www.comparethecoffin.com/content/buy-coffin-online

Cookie_Dough · 30-07-2015 12:24pm

You would think that there was an undertaker involved if there was a funeral service held? Would they not bring coffin to and from church?

It's amazing that they were able to let it get so far as to have a funeral and burial. I wonder if they had any family, it only mentions them telling neighbours about the pregnany, you would think that family would be looking for update on scans etc if there was a baby due in the family.

Obviously we don't know the couples circumstances or family situation, it's very sad.

Could have been any number of reasons why this happened, maybe it was just a little white lie that snowballed out of control.

The_Valeyard · 30-07-2015 12:24pm

You would need an undertakers for a burial right?

They would, prep, dress, load the body????? This very sad and bizzare.

Odd story.

Menas · 30-07-2015 12:25pm

iguana wrote: »

http://www.comparethecoffin.com/content/buy-coffin-online

Prefer this one myself.

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/PREMIUM-WICKER-WILLOW-Real-Willow-Full-Size-Funeral-Casket-COFFIN-3-/251606172366?hash=item3a94e582ce

The Backwards Man · 30-07-2015 12:25pm

cruais wrote: »

But how did they get their hands on a coffin... its not as if they are on a weekly special in aldi.

Cant get my head around it.

I suppose time will tell when the investigation goes on.

You can buy one from the undertaker, you can buy them online, you can make your own, it's not rocket science to see how this could have happened, very little questions are asked at the time. Why would they be in normal circumstances?

NachoBusiness · 30-07-2015 12:26pm

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Stuff of nightmares?

Bad horror film?

Bizarre?

It's none of these things, it's just a sad incident.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1e9E83op_dc

Old Perry · 30-07-2015 12:26pm

cruais wrote: »

But how did they get their hands on a coffin... its not as if they are on a weekly special in aldi.

Cant get my head around it.

I suppose time will tell when the investigation goes on.

Its not just that though, as mentioned what bout undertakers? Embalming? do the church not expect some registration of death?

The Backwards Man · 30-07-2015 12:27pm

The_Valeyard wrote: »

You would need an undertakers for a burial right?

They would, prep, dress, load the body????? This very sad and bizzare.

Odd story.

They might not in the case of a newborn, it is sometimes left to the family themselves if they wish.

hairyslug · 30-07-2015 12:27pm

The_Valeyard wrote: »

You would need an undertakers for a burial right?

They would, prep, dress, load the body????? This very sad and bizzare.

Odd story.

No need for an undertaker for either a funeral or burial, I have organised a burial dealing with only the people at the graveyard, the funeral is a bit more hard work but it's possible

Old Perry · 30-07-2015 12:28pm

I wonder did the grave diggers know as the were digging? fair creepy diggin up a grave not knowing wat youre gonna find

cruais · 30-07-2015 12:28pm

The Backwards Man wrote: »

You can buy one from the undertaker, you can buy them online, you can make your own, it's not rocket science to see how this could have happened, very little questions are asked at the time. Why would they be in normal circumstances?

Alarm bells should be ringing if you go into an undertakers to buy a coffin at random, particularly an infants.

The Backwards Man · 30-07-2015 12:30pm

cruais wrote: »

Alarm bells should be ringing if you go into an undertakers to buy a coffin at random, particularly an infants.

If they told the undertaker your baby had died and you want a coffin? You think the undertaker would say 'prove it?' He wouldn't be in business too long, that fella

30-07-2015 12:31pm

cruais wrote: »

Alarm bells should be ringing if you go into an undertakers to buy a coffin at random, particularly an infants.

Why would it? I've walked in off the street and bought a coffin before there was ever a body to go in it!

That's how funerals start. The first thing you do is go in and buy the coffin. I presume for stillborns, it's even less formal than it is for dead adults (which is not formal at all, thankfully. Paperwork and form-filling is the last thing mourners need).

cruais · 30-07-2015 12:32pm

The Backwards Man wrote: »

If they told the undertaker your baby had died and you want a coffin? You think the undertaker would say 'prove it?' He wouldn't be in business too long, that fella

But do they not have to embalm etc

30-07-2015 12:32pm

The Backwards Man wrote: »

If they told the undertaker your baby had died and you want a coffin? You think the undertaker would say 'prove it?' He wouldn't be in business too long, that fella

I think they're meant to look for preliminary death certs before they bury anything. I don't think you can open a plot and put in a coffin without some sort of official paperwork.

I hope not, anyway.

Old Perry · 30-07-2015 12:33pm

Mass on sunday is gonna be slightly awkward.

seamus · 30-07-2015 12:33pm

None of these things are really controlled. You could build your own coffin or buy one online. As far as I can tell, burying someone just requires buying a plot and notifying the caretaker that you'll be putting a coffin in. You don't have to embalm someone, you don't have to engage a funeral director. There's no indication that they got the church involved.

So there's not really anything illegal going on here. Except maybe some littering bye-law in relation to the graveyard.

I suspect in this case they probably had a late stage miscarriage or early stillbirth, and unable to deal with their grief and having no remains to speak of, they cared for this doll as a child until such time as they were ready to move on. It's very sad and no uncommon.

Usually only one of the couple is really having difficulty, but the other partner will do what they can to help them through it, including buying graveyard plots and coffins.

nelly17 · 30-07-2015 12:36pm

seamus wrote: »

I suspect in this case they probably had a late stage miscarriage or early stillbirth, and unable to deal with their grief and having no remains to speak of, they cared for this doll as a child until such time as they were ready to move on. It's very sad and no uncommon.

Usually only one of the couple is really having difficulty, but the other partner will do what they can to help them through it, including buying graveyard plots and coffins.

I was thinking this too - which does not make the couple mental, or the whole thing ****ed up - it makes it sad and tragic.

BorneTobyWilde · 30-07-2015 12:38pm

Batteries died
They could of got new ones.

The Backwards Man · 30-07-2015 12:40pm

cruais wrote: »

But do they not have to embalm etc

You don't have to be embalmed to be buried, a newborn is highly unlikely to be embalmed.

Menas · 30-07-2015 12:43pm

The Backwards Man wrote: »

You don't have to be embalmed to be buried, a newborn is highly unlikely to be embalmed.

I hate the idea of getting embalmed. It is for those who want an open coffin.
Costs a fortune and I dont want any auld wans in the funeral home kissing my forehead and putting rosary beeds in to my hands.
Nope, closed coffin thanks.

The Backwards Man · 30-07-2015 12:43pm

Candie wrote: »

I think they're meant to look for preliminary death certs before they bury anything. I don't think you can open a plot and put in a coffin without some sort of official paperwork.

I hope not, anyway.

Never heard of an undertaker refusing to bury someone because they hadn't the paperwork to say they were dead.

30-07-2015 12:45pm

seamus wrote: »

None of these things are really controlled. You could build your own coffin or buy one online. As far as I can tell, burying someone just requires buying a plot and notifying the caretaker that you'll be putting a coffin in. You don't have to embalm someone, you don't have to engage a funeral director. There's no indication that they got the church involved.

So there's not really anything illegal going on here. Except maybe some littering bye-law in relation to the graveyard.

I suspect in this case they probably had a late stage miscarriage or early stillbirth, and unable to deal with their grief and having no remains to speak of, they cared for this doll as a child until such time as they were ready to move on. It's very sad and no uncommon.

Usually only one of the couple is really having difficulty, but the other partner will do what they can to help them through it, including buying graveyard plots and coffins.

I'm not so sure. The child was supposed to have passed away a year and a half ago. Why would the HSE be raising questions at this stage? They tipped off the gardai after they couldn't find a record for the child. Well, why were they looking for one?

I think I've heard of couples having graves/ memorials where a miscarried child was never born, I think that's reasonably common among grieving parents. Nobody would mind that at all.

The Backwards Man · 30-07-2015 12:49pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I'm not so sure. The child was supposed to have passed away a year and a half ago. Why would the HSE be raising questions at this stage? They tipped off the gardai after they couldn't find a record for the child. Well, why were they looking for one?

You have up to a year to register a death so it's possible the HSE already had a tipoff but couldn't act on it until the time had passed.

But we're only surmising and speculating here, none of us know and probably will never know.

NachoBusiness · 30-07-2015 12:59pm

Menas wrote: »

I hate the idea of getting embalmed.

Not of that lark for me.

I have a small row boat picked out. They'll wrap me in a petrol doused linen cloth, light her up and kick me out to sea.

seamus · 30-07-2015 1:04pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I'm not so sure. The child was supposed to have passed away a year and a half ago. Why would the HSE be raising questions at this stage? They tipped off the gardai after they couldn't find a record for the child. Well, why were they looking for one?

Well, we don't know the full timeline or circumstances here.

Especially given that it's Donegal, which is a small and close county, it could have been an off-the-cuff remark during a chat with a local GP or health nurse where someone said, "Well of course, they had a baby die on them last year, poor things", and the nurse obviously having never heard of this, would raise a query through the HSE, whose monstrously slow bureaucracy would take time to come back and recognise that in fact there had been no child died and registered.

As said also, you have a year. So I wouldn't be surprised if someone put it on hold for a year to see if a registration came in, instead of just sending a public health nurse to the house for chat.

donegaLroad · 30-07-2015 1:10pm

what about the department of Births, Deaths and Marriages?

Surely there must have been a certificate of birth, a certificate of death, and a coroners report?

30-07-2015 1:10pm

seamus wrote: »

Well, we don't know the full timeline or circumstances here.

Especially given that it's Donegal, which is a small and close county, it could have been an off-the-cuff remark during a chat with a local GP or health nurse where someone said, "Well of course, they had a baby die on them last year, poor things", and the nurse obviously having never heard of this, would raise a query through the HSE, whose monstrously slow bureaucracy would take time to come back and recognise that in fact there had been no child died and registered.

As said also, you have a year. So I wouldn't be surprised if someone put it on hold for a year to see if a registration came in, instead of just sending a public health nurse to the house for chat.

Yes all true, but why wouldn't the family just "admit" (for want of a better word) what happened, if that happened? There's no harm in saying "we just wanted a place to go and grieve" because the misfortunate parents of miscarried children do that fairly often.

Anyway, I agree this is idle speculation, mental diarrhea on my part, going to stop now...

seamus · 30-07-2015 1:13pm

donegaLroad wrote: »

what about the department of Births, Deaths and Marriages?

Surely there must have been a certificate of birth, a certificate of death, and a coroners report?

Nope. Not to bury a coffin, apparently. Though I might be wrong.

I guess the reason that criminals don't bury murdered people in graveyards is because it's not exactly inconspicuous.

Though it makes you wonder what else people may have buried in graveyards under the guise of a "private funeral".

kylith · 30-07-2015 1:14pm

cruais wrote: »

But do they not have to embalm etc

Nope. Embalming is traditional in the US, but not here.

Menas wrote: »

I hate the idea of getting embalmed. It is for those who want an open coffin.
Costs a fortune and I dont want any auld wans in the funeral home kissing my forehead and putting rosary beeds in to my hands.
Nope, closed coffin thanks.

I don't think you have to be embalmed for an open coffin if the burial is going to be within a couple of days.

I've only been at one open coffin funeral and I couldn't shake the feeling the deceased was about to jump out of the coffin.

NachoBusiness wrote: »

Not of that lark for me.

I have a small row boat picked out. They'll wrap me in a petrol doused linen cloth, light her up and kick me out to sea.

I'll go for a winding sheet and an orchard burial.

Bonzo Delaney · 30-07-2015 1:41pm

I wonder could it of been an elaborate/badly tought out insurance scam
Just thinking aloud via the inter web whilst suppin tae

seamus · 30-07-2015 1:42pm

Bonzo Delaney wrote: »

I wonder could it of been an elaborate/badly tought out insurance scam
Just thinking aloud via the inter web whilst suppin tae

Nah, insurance companies require death certificates and all that stuff before they'll pay out.