Doll exhumed from grave

Menas · 30-07-2015 01:43PM

The Backwards Man wrote: »

You don't have to be embalmed to be buried, a newborn is highly unlikely to be embalmed.

I hate the idea of getting embalmed. It is for those who want an open coffin.
Costs a fortune and I dont want any auld wans in the funeral home kissing my forehead and putting rosary beeds in to my hands.
Nope, closed coffin thanks.

The Backwards Man · 30-07-2015 01:43PM

Candie wrote: »

I think they're meant to look for preliminary death certs before they bury anything. I don't think you can open a plot and put in a coffin without some sort of official paperwork.

I hope not, anyway.

Never heard of an undertaker refusing to bury someone because they hadn't the paperwork to say they were dead.

30-07-2015 01:45PM

seamus wrote: »

None of these things are really controlled. You could build your own coffin or buy one online. As far as I can tell, burying someone just requires buying a plot and notifying the caretaker that you'll be putting a coffin in. You don't have to embalm someone, you don't have to engage a funeral director. There's no indication that they got the church involved.

So there's not really anything illegal going on here. Except maybe some littering bye-law in relation to the graveyard.

I suspect in this case they probably had a late stage miscarriage or early stillbirth, and unable to deal with their grief and having no remains to speak of, they cared for this doll as a child until such time as they were ready to move on. It's very sad and no uncommon.

Usually only one of the couple is really having difficulty, but the other partner will do what they can to help them through it, including buying graveyard plots and coffins.

I'm not so sure. The child was supposed to have passed away a year and a half ago. Why would the HSE be raising questions at this stage? They tipped off the gardai after they couldn't find a record for the child. Well, why were they looking for one?

I think I've heard of couples having graves/ memorials where a miscarried child was never born, I think that's reasonably common among grieving parents. Nobody would mind that at all.

The Backwards Man · 30-07-2015 01:49PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I'm not so sure. The child was supposed to have passed away a year and a half ago. Why would the HSE be raising questions at this stage? They tipped off the gardai after they couldn't find a record for the child. Well, why were they looking for one?

You have up to a year to register a death so it's possible the HSE already had a tipoff but couldn't act on it until the time had passed.

But we're only surmising and speculating here, none of us know and probably will never know.

NachoBusiness · 30-07-2015 01:59PM

Menas wrote: »

I hate the idea of getting embalmed.

Not of that lark for me.

I have a small row boat picked out. They'll wrap me in a petrol doused linen cloth, light her up and kick me out to sea.

seamus · 30-07-2015 02:04PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I'm not so sure. The child was supposed to have passed away a year and a half ago. Why would the HSE be raising questions at this stage? They tipped off the gardai after they couldn't find a record for the child. Well, why were they looking for one?

Well, we don't know the full timeline or circumstances here.

Especially given that it's Donegal, which is a small and close county, it could have been an off-the-cuff remark during a chat with a local GP or health nurse where someone said, "Well of course, they had a baby die on them last year, poor things", and the nurse obviously having never heard of this, would raise a query through the HSE, whose monstrously slow bureaucracy would take time to come back and recognise that in fact there had been no child died and registered.

As said also, you have a year. So I wouldn't be surprised if someone put it on hold for a year to see if a registration came in, instead of just sending a public health nurse to the house for chat.

donegaLroad · 30-07-2015 02:10PM

what about the department of Births, Deaths and Marriages?

Surely there must have been a certificate of birth, a certificate of death, and a coroners report?

30-07-2015 02:10PM

seamus wrote: »

Well, we don't know the full timeline or circumstances here.

Especially given that it's Donegal, which is a small and close county, it could have been an off-the-cuff remark during a chat with a local GP or health nurse where someone said, "Well of course, they had a baby die on them last year, poor things", and the nurse obviously having never heard of this, would raise a query through the HSE, whose monstrously slow bureaucracy would take time to come back and recognise that in fact there had been no child died and registered.

As said also, you have a year. So I wouldn't be surprised if someone put it on hold for a year to see if a registration came in, instead of just sending a public health nurse to the house for chat.

Yes all true, but why wouldn't the family just "admit" (for want of a better word) what happened, if that happened? There's no harm in saying "we just wanted a place to go and grieve" because the misfortunate parents of miscarried children do that fairly often.

Anyway, I agree this is idle speculation, mental diarrhea on my part, going to stop now...

seamus · 30-07-2015 02:13PM

donegaLroad wrote: »

what about the department of Births, Deaths and Marriages?

Surely there must have been a certificate of birth, a certificate of death, and a coroners report?

Nope. Not to bury a coffin, apparently. Though I might be wrong.

I guess the reason that criminals don't bury murdered people in graveyards is because it's not exactly inconspicuous.

Though it makes you wonder what else people may have buried in graveyards under the guise of a "private funeral".

kylith · 30-07-2015 02:14PM

cruais wrote: »

But do they not have to embalm etc

Nope. Embalming is traditional in the US, but not here.

Menas wrote: »

I hate the idea of getting embalmed. It is for those who want an open coffin.
Costs a fortune and I dont want any auld wans in the funeral home kissing my forehead and putting rosary beeds in to my hands.
Nope, closed coffin thanks.

I don't think you have to be embalmed for an open coffin if the burial is going to be within a couple of days.

I've only been at one open coffin funeral and I couldn't shake the feeling the deceased was about to jump out of the coffin.

NachoBusiness wrote: »

Not of that lark for me.

I have a small row boat picked out. They'll wrap me in a petrol doused linen cloth, light her up and kick me out to sea.

I'll go for a winding sheet and an orchard burial.

Bonzo Delaney · 30-07-2015 02:41PM

I wonder could it of been an elaborate/badly tought out insurance scam
Just thinking aloud via the inter web whilst suppin tae

seamus · 30-07-2015 02:42PM

Bonzo Delaney wrote: »

I wonder could it of been an elaborate/badly tought out insurance scam
Just thinking aloud via the inter web whilst suppin tae

Nah, insurance companies require death certificates and all that stuff before they'll pay out.

30-07-2015 02:45PM

You also can't take life insurance out for a child. For that very reason.

Bonzo Delaney · 30-07-2015 02:47PM

seamus wrote: »

Nah, insurance companies require death certificates and all that stuff before they'll pay out.

Tought that myself
Hence the "badly tought "out bit

libelula · 30-07-2015 02:48PM

Nah, this was no insurance scam. Just two people who are obviously in need of quite a bit of help.
Let's hope they get that now.

darkpagandeath · 30-07-2015 02:54PM

Very very weird. Was it one of them baby dolls that look like real babies ?

NotASheeple · 30-07-2015 02:58PM

What a weird & freaky case this is.

30-07-2015 03:01PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Very very weird. Was it one of them baby dolls that look like real babies ?

Reminds me of this: "My Fake Baby"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Stf7Z6A2M4

KomradeBishop · 30-07-2015 03:03PM

Maybe it's that kleptomaniac on the loose again?

donegaLroad · 30-07-2015 03:51PM

I have an idea now what happened and it is very sad, god help them.

tayto lover · 30-07-2015 04:01PM

Anyone know if there was a clergyman involved in the funeral?
Surely if there was they would have to see the body.

Flibbles · 30-07-2015 04:10PM

Having buried a premature baby, I can clear up a few misconceptions here.

Usually an undertaker isn't there for anything before the burial, the coffin/placement/preparation is done in the hospital. Birth/Death certs are done at a later date, so they would not be used as proof of a child in there.

From that point it would be quite easy to convince an undertaker and have the whole thing in place for the burial. You bring the coffin with you, as it's small there's no big setup required to place the coffin in the grave.

While it might be thought of as odd that the hospital isn't involved, since they normally put this all together for you, it wouldn't be hard to pull this story off.

Antar Bolaeisk · 30-07-2015 04:55PM

Mesrine65 wrote: »

Apparently...they didn't

Especially in Donegal, neighbours are just too nosy around there

Very , very strange case. I wonder if it was an attempt to save face or something more nefarious.

Justice4Adolf · 30-07-2015 05:01PM

Anyone know if there was a clergyman involved in the funeral?
Surely if there was they would have to see the body.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 30-07-2015 05:13PM

What's the story with the plot ownership I wonder?

bisounours · 30-07-2015 05:26PM

I'm sorry for your loss, Flibbles.

I admit when I first came across this story Munchausen by proxy same to mind. The couple doesn't seem to have publicised their loss though so perhaps not. Perhaps the couple wanted a child so much they feel to have loved and lost is better than not have had at all - the mind distorts reality when emotions run strong.

Mam of 4 · 30-07-2015 06:26PM

donegaLroad wrote: »

what about the department of Births, Deaths and Marriages?

Surely there must have been a certificate of birth, a certificate of death, and a coroners report?

I don't know if procedures have changed now but here's my experience re Birth Certs, Death Certs.

Twenty three years ago, I was five and a half months pregnant. In a car crash, baby died from the impact . Ten days later I delivered my beautiful little baby.

Could not get a birth cert as baby wasn't alive when born , nor a death cert as baby hadn't taken a breath to live , only thing we could get was a Baptismal cert, from the midwife,who blessed the baby.

We were asked if we wanted to bury our baby ourselves yes we did, no undertakers,just went to them,bought a tiny coffin, that was the end of the undertakers role , in our experience anyway.

I just find it sad that this is what this couple this couple felt they had to do , to cope with their loss, I'm assuming anyway.

xzanti · 30-07-2015 06:40PM

Flibbles wrote: »

Having buried a premature baby, I can clear up a few misconceptions here.

Mam of 4 wrote: »

Twenty three years ago, I was five and a half months pregnant. In a car crash, baby died from the impact . Ten days later I delivered my beautiful little baby.
.

Sorry for your loss ladies

It is a tragic story, whatever the explanation.

Mam of 4 · 30-07-2015 07:07PM

xzanti wrote: »

Sorry for your loss ladies

It is a tragic story, whatever the explanation.

Thank you, and I agree it is a tragic story , hope they get whatever help they may need , for whatever reason .

Spanish Eyes · 30-07-2015 07:27PM

So sorry for all those who have lost their babies. I cannot imagine that, it must be so awful.

This case seems to be connected to something like that. If so, your heart would only go out to them.

Probably the only way they had to remember their child.

Doll exhumed from grave

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