Golf at the Olympics

Raisins

Chivito550 wrote: »

We have actually qualified a diver for Rio. Oliver Dingley in the 3m springboard. But your post is valid.

Thanks I should have checked that apologies to Oliver Dingley.

Jawgap

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Boxing is officiated by 5 judges, 3 of whose score is counted, and they often have wildly different interpretations of fights (and inevitably there are always controversies). They score each round 10 to winner and a sliding scale from 9 down to 6 for the loser. Even the former point per punch system was fairly subjective. And they don't have the benefit of instant replays to guide them either.

There is a degree of subjectivity in all those combat sports. They have rules, sure, but there is always a referee and a judge to interpret them. Some winter sports like ski jumping require subjective judging too.

Boxing is a bit more of a sport than rhythmic gymnastics - there may well be an element of subjectivity in deciding if a punch was landed fairly or not - just as there is in deciding if a player is off-side or not (ref and assistant have to make a snap decision, no replay) - but a boxer or judoka doesn't get extra marks for style or throwing their punches in a more aesthetically pleasing fashion than their opponent. In summary, a boxer can be the worst kind of leaden footed brawler, but if he /she lands punches they win.

Chivito550

Jawgap wrote: »

Boxing is a bit more of a sport than rhythmic gymnastics - there may well be an element of subjectivity in deciding if a punch was landed fairly or not - just as there is in deciding if a player is off-side or not (ref and assistant have to make a snap decision, no replay) - but a boxer or judoka doesn't get extra marks for style or throwing their punches in a more aesthetically pleasing fashion than their opponent. In summary, a boxer can be the worst kind of leaden footed brawler, but if he /she lands punches they win.

I've seen fights in the Olympics where the guy who landed more punches lost. If the judge doesn't see it, it never happened!

Keano

Nice to see so many different sports in the Olympics but this thread is about golf being there.. Back to slating that! Thanks.

Jawgap

Chivito550 wrote: »

I've seen fights in the Olympics where the guy who landed more punches lost. If the judge doesn't see it, it never happened!

yes, as a referee of rugby and soccer I can tell plenty of stories where I missed off-sides, scores and fouls and where I penalised off-sides and fouls that weren't......where teams probably won or lost because of those decisions and/or where players were wrongly carded or not carded.

......I've yet to see a boxer lose a fight on points because they're punches weren't pretty or delivered in a manner somehow considered less technically correct than their opponent.

EDIT: Apologies - just saw the mod warning. If it's down to aesthetics then Scott should win the golf!

cadaliac

Chivito550 wrote: »

Again, the Olympics is not an amateur event. It has not been for many many years. Educate yourself on it before posting. Do you honestly think Usain Bolt and Mo Farah are amateurs?

Not the point I was making. Learn to read before making condescending comments.

Rikand

Jawgap wrote: »

I don't hold that the Olympics are needed to grow the sport.

We were talking about the Olympics recently while playing a round and one of the guys was suggesting it could help grow the sport. One of the other in the group pointed the example of water polo - he's a keen player of the sport.

He loves when the Olympics come around because it's the only time it gets some coverage, but, as he pointed out, we have loads of swimming pools (infrastructure) capable of being used for the sport but it has zero traction here despite being in the Olympics for over 100 years and it getting good coverage at each games.

I always wondered how they trained the horses to play that in the pool

Jawgap

Rikand wrote: »

I always wondered how they trained the horses to play that in the pool

Apparently, unlike golf (let's keep it the neighbourhood of the topic ) there's a lot of testicle grabbing in men's water polo - and not necessarily your own :eek:

Joe_ Public

Raisins wrote: »

It's nothing to do with being honest to a fault and its got everything to do with McIroy's selfishness. He's selfish for one thing because he sees no added value in using his talent to bring home a huge achievement for the country as a whole. People criticise Ronaldo and some of his emotion was undoubtedly a reflection of the personal credit he would get for winning an international tournament but even the biggest cynic couldn't say that he wasn't clearly ecstatic by the fact that he used his talent to win the first international tournament for Portugal in their history. McIroy knows how few gold medals we have ever won in our history and he couldn't even be bothered to turn up.

Not only that but he's even more selfish and unbelievably arrogant in that he goes a step further and says that if someone like Seamus Power goes and braves the Zika he'd prefer to watch the diving - a sport we're not even competing in - because it doesn't matter.

That's a very mean spirited comment.

You can't equate McIlroy going to play golf at the Olympics with Ronaldo playing in Euro 2016 surely? If you accept international as the pinnacle in football, then winning a European title is the second highest accolade in the game. What would winning the Olympic title be for golf? Is it even the fifth? Not nearly to my mind anyway.

I think it's ok to suggest McIlroy acted selfishly in this instance, I'd still dispute it but not vehemently, but not right to say he is a selfish person. What are we supposed to be angry about here? That the handy medal we thought was in the bag has now slipped out of our grasp? Are we really that needy?

And as for his responsibility for growing and developing the sport, there's plenty of documentary evidence to show how much McIlroy does in that area - for no compensation - both through his own charity and through other means. He put his heart and soul into rescuing the Irish Open for oblivion and waived his winners fee for charity. He already does more for golf and raising its profile than he would do appearing in 5 Olympics.

"Unbelievably arrogant" - I think that's an exaggeration and not right anyway. He doesn't strike me as a person that is half as arrogant as he might be with his ability. I've already agreed the interview was probably a bit spiky and unnecessarily spiteful, but sure we'll get over it I think. And I still don't understand why the likes of Seamus Power should feel insulted in anyway. He's a lucky fellow getting a big opportunity and good luck to him.

Chivito550

cadaliac wrote: »

Not the point I was making. Learn to read before making condescending comments.

cadaliac wrote: »

He had the balls to come out and say what he thinks. Whether or not people agree with that, is optional and there will always be fallout.
I don't think he purposely put down other sports people by his comments.
Who here actually think professional golfers should participate in the Olimpics?
The stuff that matters is amateurs - in the Olimpics
I for one am delighted he came out and said what he did and wasn't a typical vanilla sports pro statement

McIlroy said he would watch the stuff that matters. You appear to agree with his sentiments, and said the stuff that matters is amateurs. Sorry but the sports he mentioned are not amateur sports.

M.T. Cranium

Let's go all the way and have Olympic poker, darts and billiards. Oh, and pokemon, whatever that is.

CMOTDibbler

Joe_ Public wrote: »

You can't equate McIlroy going to play golf at the Olympics with Ronaldo playing in Euro 2016 surely? If you accept international as the pinnacle in football, then winning a European title is the second highest accolade in the game. What would winning the Olympic title be for golf? Is it even the fifth? Not nearly to my mind anyway.

I think it's ok to suggest McIlroy acted selfishly in this instance, I'd still dispute it but not vehemently, but not right to say he is a selfish person. What are we supposed to be angry about here? That the handy medal we thought was in the bag has now slipped out of our grasp? Are we really that needy?

And as for his responsibility for growing and developing the sport, there's plenty of documentary evidence to show how much McIlroy does in that area - for no compensation - both through his own charity and through other means. He put his heart and soul into rescuing the Irish Open for oblivion and waived his winners fee for charity. He already does more for golf and raising its profile than he would do appearing in 5 Olympics.

"Unbelievably arrogant" - I think that's an exaggeration and not right anyway. He doesn't strike me as a person that is half as arrogant as he might be with his ability. I've already agreed the interview was probably a bit spiky and unnecessarily spiteful, but sure we'll get over it I think. And I still don't understand why the likes of Seamus Power should feel insulted in anyway. He's a lucky fellow getting a big opportunity and good luck to him.

Having watched his comments at the press conference, I would have to agree that it seemed a tad harsh of him. However it seemed to me that he was almost trying to persuade himself rather than the press corp. There was a touch of "sure I never really thought it was a good idea anyway" about it.

It wasn't only his decision, the missus would have had a say in it as well.

Joe_ Public

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Having watched his comments at the press conference, I would have to agree that it seemed a tad harsh of him. However it seemed to me that he was almost trying to persuade himself rather than the press corp. There was a touch of "sure I never really thought it was a good idea anyway" about it.

It wasn't only his decision, the missus would have had a say in it as well.

I read the transcript of McIlroy's interview and then Jordan Spieth's. Spieth's is actually quite funny, virtually ties himself up in knots trying to justify the decision but, of course, I haven't seen anybody balling Spieth out on account of it. It's only over here it seems to be happening.

danganabu

Last few pages are very informative, I had no idea that Rory McIlroy was the only golfer that has withdrawn........oh wait :rolleyes:

danganabu

Joe_ Public wrote: »

I read the transcript of McIlroy's interview and then Jordan Spieth's. Spieth's is actually quite funny, virtually ties himself up in knots trying to justify the decision but, of course, I haven't seen anybody balling Spieth out on account of it. It's only over here it seems to be happening.

No Lowry has escaped as well, cos he's from good old stock in Offaly, its patethic really the judging and faux anger been perpetrated towards McIlroy.

Chivito550

Of course, as usual, people's opinions on whether golf should be in the Olympics is based solely on the men's game! :rolleyes: What about the women?

Lydia Ko, the women's world number one golfer, says she has spoken to other female players and claims the general feeling is it is important for them to be in Rio. "I'm more excited about the Olympics, about the ceremony, about just being in that Olympic vibe than worrying about the Zika virus," said the 19-year-old New Zealander. "We're all excited to go to Brazil, represent our countries and be there amongst the other Olympians."

http://www.bbc.com/sport/golf/36775504

A Shaved Duck?

Raisins wrote: »

It's nothing to do with being honest to a fault and its got everything to do with McIroy's selfishness. He's selfish for one thing because he sees no added value in using his talent to bring home a huge achievement for the country as a whole. People criticise Ronaldo and some of his emotion was undoubtedly a reflection of the personal credit he would get for winning an international tournament but even the biggest cynic couldn't say that he wasn't clearly ecstatic by the fact that he used his talent to win the first international tournament for Portugal in their history. McIroy knows how few gold medals we have ever won in our history and he couldn't even be bothered to turn up.

Not only that but he's even more selfish and unbelievably arrogant in that he goes a step further and says that if someone like Seamus Power goes and braves the Zika he'd prefer to watch the diving - a sport we're not even competing in - because it doesn't matter.

That's a very mean spirited comment.

Whats selfish about not wanting to compete in a glorified exhibition with other pros?. This is not about the olympic spirit or anything like it there should be amateur players qualifying to get to rio not a hand picked bunch of top pros on a PR exercise.

I commend Rory on being honest and fair play to him calling it like it is and using national pride as some sort of stick to beat him with is pathetic.

mickmackey1

The gullibility of Rory's fanboys on here is laughable, no one with an ounce of sense would believe a word he says. Hope everything goes pear-shaped for him this week.

Joe_ Public

Chivito550 wrote: »

Of course, as usual, people's opinions on whether golf should be in the Olympics is based solely on the men's game! :rolleyes: What about the women?



http://www.bbc.com/sport/golf/36775504

But completely different imperative. Lydia Ko is a superstar, I love watching her during the majors, but what kind of profile is she going to get on the regular LPGA tour? Going to the Olympics is a huge opportunity for her in terms of building a profile and sponsorship base. None of the top male golfers have even a fraction as much to gain.

cadaliac

mickmackey1 wrote: »

The gullibility of Rory's fanboys on here is laughable, no one with an ounce of sense would believe a word he says. Hope everything goes pear-shaped for him this week.

I didn't like him up to this week.
Your comment however is childish. As much as I have disliked him in the past, I would never have wished that he failed, or things to go pear shaped

Chivito550

Joe_ Public wrote: »

But completely different imperative. Lydia Ko is a superstar, I love watching her during the majors, but what kind of profile is she going to get on the regular LPGA tour? Going to the Olympics is a huge opportunity for her in terms of building a profile and sponsorship base. None of the top male golfers have even a fraction as much to gain.

So would you not agree there's a lot to be gained by having golf in the Olympics? More women could take up the sport as a result. It's not all about some overpaid men.

danganabu

mickmackey1 wrote: »

The gullibility of Rory's fanboys on here is laughable, no one with an ounce of sense would believe a word he says. Hope everything goes pear-shaped for him this week.

The personal attack from the hate-boys on the other hand is just pathetic.

Joe_ Public

Chivito550 wrote: »

So would you not agree there's a lot to be gained by having golf in the Olympics? More women could take up the sport as a result. It's not all about some overpaid men.

Fair question. I'm sure there's a lot to be gained by the golfers themselves, but as for the sport, I'm not convinced. Somebody earlier made the point that the way to increase participation is through work at ground level, ploughing money into poorer areas and building facilities. How do you actually measure the effect Olympic medals have on development? I'm skeptical about it anyway.

Maybe I'm just a traditionalist. I like tennis but I've never watched the Olympic event, it hasn't won me over yet and doubt it ever will. Same with golf. Zach Johnson's interview summed it up perfectly for me earlier this week. It just doesn't feel right and the participation argument doesn't wash.

slave1

Poor comments from Rory, think he should have just pulled out a long time ago and be done with it, he does not deserve to represent Ireland next time around

Jawgap

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Fair question. I'm sure there's a lot to be gained by the golfers themselves, but as for the sport, I'm not convinced. Somebody earlier made the point that the way to increase participation is through work at ground level, ploughing money into poorer areas and building facilities. How do you actually measure the effect Olympic medals have on development? I'm skeptical about it anyway.

Maybe I'm just a traditionalist. I like tennis but I've never watched the Olympic event, it hasn't won me over yet and doubt it ever will. Same with golf. Zach Johnson's interview summed it up perfectly for me earlier this week. It just doesn't feel right and the participation argument doesn't wash.

That was me. I think if you look at how snooker broke China and soccer is breaking the US there's a lot to learn there, especially snooker and China - ok, the economics are different but the principles the same, they put the facilities in place so people could play.

If they want to expand golf as in get into more countries, rather than deepen it as in getting more people to play in existing markets, then building a rake of 9 hole courses or par-3 courses might be a better way to go, rather than relying on about 80 odd hours of coverage every 4 years.

Joe_ Public

Jawgap wrote: »

That was me. I think if you look at how snooker broke China and soccer is breaking the US there's a lot to learn there, especially snooker and China - ok, the economics are different but the principles the same, they put the facilities in place so people could play.

If they want to expand golf as in get into more countries, rather than deepen it as in getting more people to play in existing markets, then building a rake of 9 hole courses or par-3 courses might be a better way to go, rather than relying on about 80 odd hours of coverage every 4 years.

Yeah I agree with you. Snooker would definitely love to get into the Olympics but even as a huge fan of the sport, I've no desire to see it. What they are doing in China is amazing, it's on the school curriculum in most parts of the country which is pretty mindblowing when you think about it.

I mentioned Zach Johnson earlier and he gets to the nub of the whole thing for me, especially when he said this:

"So, it's unfortunate, but it's just the way it is. It seems to me like looking on social media, looking at stories, vignettes, documentaries on ESPN or any channel for whatever, NBC, you can see the passion for the Olympics is there, pretty much regardless of any sport, but especially the ones that are just not mainstream, and I love that. That's what you want to see."

For Johnson, growing up and watching the Olympics was all about watching sports you wouldn't normally watch and enjoying the novelty of it. Who really wants to watch another golf or tennis tournament when you've already watched 20 of them in the year? And this thing about golf needing to develop or spread its markets, that's it's in some apparent danger of imminent meltdown or something if they don't, I don't buy that at all. I'd have preferred to see a sport like squash get in, even though I have no interest in it, just because it has great athletes and they'd deserve the four yearly chance to be in the spotlight.

But the Olympics is more about money and big markets now, that novelty factor is being slowly stripped away. That's the reality of it.

CMOTDibbler

Joe_ Public wrote: »

For Johnson, growing up and watching the Olympics was all about watching sports you wouldn't normally watch and enjoying the novelty of it. Who really wants to watch another golf or tennis tournament when you've already watched 20 of them in the year? And this thing about golf needing to develop or spread its markets, that's it's in some apparent danger of imminent meltdown or something if they don't, I don't buy that at all. I'd have preferred to see a sport like squash get in, even though I have no interest in it, just because it has great athletes and they'd deserve the four yearly chance to be in the spotlight.

But the Olympics is more about money and big markets now, that novelty factor is being slowly stripped away. That's the reality of it.

Exactly. The football for example, doesn't really interest me even though I'd watch the Euros and the World Cup. Golf at the Olympics is overkill, but there's one interesting thing about golf and China that might make it sensible for it to be included. China was actively discouraging people from playing golf at one stage and still have serious reservations about its preceived link with corruption. There's even a disciplinary regulation for possession of a golf membership card! Having it in the Olympics seems to be changing that view and there are now articles in newspapers saying that 'golf is not a crime' :eek:

CMOTDibbler

slave1 wrote: »

Poor comments from Rory, think he should have just pulled out a long time ago and be done with it, he does not deserve to represent Ireland next time around

I reckon Harrington got at him and Shane Lowry tbh. He probably threatened them with a lesson or something.

Ruthless man that Paddy Harington :P

Joe_ Public

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Exactly. The football for example, doesn't really interest me even though I'd watch the Euros and the World Cup. Golf at the Olympics is overkill, but there's one interesting thing about golf and China that might make it sensible for it to be included. China was actively discouraging people from playing golf at one stage and still have serious reservations about its preceived link with corruption. There's even a disciplinary regulation for possession of a golf membership card! Having it in the Olympics seems to be changing that view and there are now articles in newspapers saying that 'golf is not a crime' :eek:

Fascinating. Did not know any of that!

Raisins

A Shaved Duck? wrote: »

Whats selfish about not wanting to compete in a glorified exhibition with other pros?. This is not about the olympic spirit or anything like it there should be amateur players qualifying to get to rio not a hand picked bunch of top pros on a PR exercise.

I commend Rory on being honest and fair play to him calling it like it is and using national pride as some sort of stick to beat him with is pathetic.

You're missing the point and moving the goalposts to suit your argument; whether golf should be in it and whether he should be entitled to play are bedside the point. Golf is in it and he is entitled to play and there's an Olympic gold medal for which he could compete representing Ireland if he wanted to and he won't. That's one thing for which I wasn't really annoyed because it's his prerogative as it is lowrys etc but he's strayed into another area entirely blithely saying it doesn't matter and that he'd watch the 100 metres or something that matters instead. It does matter to lots of people it just doesn't matter to him, just like people saying it's not as important as the majors, it's not as important to him. In making those digs at the players bothered to represent their country in golf he came across like a completely spoilt child. Most Irish people can name the handful of people who have won Olympic gold for Ireland in whatever code across the years. Fair play to him calling it like it is? If he had any class and could see beyond anything other than pure self interest he'd wish Harrington and Seamus Power well.