Dairy Chit Chat- Please read Mod note in post #1

Wildsurfer

stretch film wrote: »

It's manually entered so I just didn't do it since.
24.5 l atm @1.92kg solids.

Like freedom I've noticed a fairly rapid drop off. A bit too quickly for my liking.
A little drop in meal ,sneaking some older/poorer grass from heifers block into cows and maybe going in calf are the reasons I'm coming up with. It's still a little more of a drop than I'd like

I presume you know you can link it to Co-op to update automatically?

stretch film

Wildsurfer wrote: »

I presume you know you can link it to Co-op to update automatically?

Don't ever presume
All the facilities of the grass program are far from utilised here.
Only getting the hang of the phone app.

stretch film

Keepgrowing wrote: »

A question for yourself and stretch, did ye reduce N to paddocks at any stage. My mate while on really light ground recons it's part of his problem. He can't be certain but thinks a little more may have carried him further iykwim

20 units last round of sulcan.
It's moisture ,simple as.

stretch film

freedominacup wrote: »

Yep. Twenty days wouldn't be fast. You know it's gonna start costing money when you are them after ten.

Ahh yeah. This is only an inconvenience there'll be no mention of the D word yet.

yosemitesam1

Markcheese wrote: »

hasnt chicory really poor persistance ? Cows love it though , (might be why it's persistence is so poor in a test paddock, with something new the cows will hunt out every last leaf)..

Would you get 5+ years out of it if you looked after it well? it wouldn't take the abuse grass can but I'd think it'd be similar to lucerne, long lived as long as the crown is looked after

freedominacup

stretch film wrote: »

It's manually entered so I just didn't do it since.
24.5 l atm @1.92kg solids.

Like freedom I've noticed a fairly rapid drop off. A bit too quickly for my liking.
A little drop in meal ,sneaking some older/poorer grass from heifers block into cows and maybe going in calf are the reasons I'm coming up with. It's still a little more of a drop than I'd like

Thanks for this post stretch. I thought we were the only ones dropping the ball. The extra feed seems to be giving a return and an extra .15pr is a nice side effect. The bales will probably feed better than you might think. There was plenty hairy stuff going into ours too but there's more leaf in them than you'd credit. Ours are horsing into them. Getting at least 4kgs dm from bales. Bales in feeders before they go into the paddock so no row. There's plenty for everyone be it grass or bales when they go in.

charolais0153

I thought chicory only lasted 3 grazings ,I could be wrong.

Dawggone

charolais0153 wrote: »

I thought chicory only lasted 3 grazings ,I could be wrong.

Chicory and lucerne have a peak life of 3yrs.
Maize puts them in the hapenny place...now how to graze maize?

Dawggone

freedominacup wrote: »

Thanks for this post stretch. I thought we were the only ones dropping the ball. The extra feed seems to be giving a return and an extra .15pr is a nice side effect. The bales will probably feed better than you might think. There was plenty hairy stuff going into ours too but there's more leaf in them than you'd credit. Ours are horsing into them. Getting at least 4kgs dm from bales. Bales in feeders before they go into the paddock so no row. There's plenty for everyone be it grass or bales when they go in.

0.15 pr. Funny that.

freedominacup

Dawggone wrote: »

0.15 pr. Funny that.

Don't be so cryptic. What am I missing?

Dawggone

freedominacup wrote: »

Don't be so cryptic. What am I missing?

Jeez I'm not!

Just find with a little proper nourishment that a uniquely parallel result can be seen. That's all.
Proper feed can never be dismissed...to the right kind of animal.

I'll post my results in a week or so when the herds settle into it.

freedominacup

Dawggone wrote: »

Jeez I'm not!

Just find with a little proper nourishment that a uniquely parallel result can be seen. That's all.
Proper feed can never be dismissed...to the right kind of animal.

I'll post my results in a week or so when the herds settle into it.

Right. The pr lift was a nice bonus. I'm trying to maximise production from forage so always have a bit of a brake on conc inputs. That said they usually respond fairly well to a lift on inputs. I can never square the teagasc figure on meal-milk with any other research. The idea of a kg of concentrate delivering less than a litre of milk doesn't stack up. If it's right our girls delivered almost 5500l off forage last year. I'd be thinking more like 4500l.

blackdog1

freedominacup wrote:

Right. The pr lift was a nice bonus. I'm trying to maximise production from forage so always have a bit of a brake on conc inputs. That said they usually respond fairly well to a lift on inputs. I can never square the teagasc figure on meal-milk with any other research. The idea of a kg of concentrate delivering less than a litre of milk doesn't stack up. If it's right our girls delivered almost 5500l off forage last year. I'd be thinking more like 4500l.

Ideally we should be feeding about 8kg of maize or wholecrop a day while out on grass. It makes a huge difference to animals performance. Feeding extra concentrates are a huge plus too. People forget in the very wet 2013 when everyone was feeding lots of meal they had the best conception rates they ever had.

yosemitesam1

freedominacup wrote: »

Right. The pr lift was a nice bonus. I'm trying to maximise production from forage so always have a bit of a brake on conc inputs. That said they usually respond fairly well to a lift on inputs. I can never square the teagasc figure on meal-milk with any other research. The idea of a kg of concentrate delivering less than a litre of milk doesn't stack up. If it's right our girls delivered almost 5500l off forage last year. I'd be thinking more like 4500l.

I think the problem with the teagasc figures is they only look at the short term for a cow long gone past peak and they were probably getting a set rate of meal regardless of grass/weather

yewtree

Cow type has a big effect too. Crossbreed herd here never get a great response to meal. Target is to feed about 500kgs/year. Grass was tight here 2weeks ago cows went up to 2.5 kg Conc saw very little improvement in yield. It definitely didn't pay me. When grass growth improved brought meal back to less than .05 kg, cows lost half a litre. Cows doing 19litres 4.72 fat 3.65 protein at the moment

Buford T. Justice XIX

Treating pasteurised Milk with UV light can increase Vitamin D and goes for sale in the EU.

http://dairy.ahdb.org.uk/news/news-articles/july-2016/could-uv-help-light-up-milk-sales/#.V5nIwlA1jqB

Another niche value added product.

mahoney_j

yewtree wrote: »

Cow type has a big effect too. Crossbreed herd here never get a great response to meal. Target is to feed about 500kgs/year. Grass was tight here 2weeks ago cows went up to 2.5 kg Conc saw very little improvement in yield. It definitely didn't pay me. When grass growth improved brought meal back to less than .05 kg, cows lost half a litre. Cows doing 19litres 4.72 fat 3.65 protein at the moment

Without raking up the war (another hol v X red debate ).those last few posts are interesting.what I'm noticing especially this year with low price is that high solids milk and low volume associated with typical X Breds won't generate enough cash .combine that with high Sr ,drought and the need to supplement ,the return from meal just isn't paying .came across lots of herds over last few weeks with high % but 16/18 litres per cow production feeding from 2/4 kg meal ,the meal is feeding the cow but in a lot of cases leaving no margin or most likely costing money .
Havnt suffered badly with grass here this year ,keeping quality right is a big battle though despite 12/20 day rounds since May .every paddock baled some twice and no topping done.currently at 26.5 ltrs 4.02 dat 3.53 p on 3.5 kg of 16% p.was on 14%!but grass just hadn't enough punch so upped it and by late August I'll be on 18 same feeding rate .also toying with idea of baling strong for 3 weeks in August and only start building covers from then .

Wildsurfer

Isn't the perceived wisdom to have everything cut by first week in August and to start building covers from then on? I could see on a wetter farm you might leave it later to avoid covers getting too heavy and not being able to graze them out before closing but that wouldn't apply in your case. Jeez I'm talking about closing covers already where did the summer go!

mahoney_j

Wildsurfer wrote: »

Isn't the perceived wisdom to have everything cut by first week in August and to start building covers from then on? I could see on a wetter farm you might leave it later to avoid covers getting too heavy and not being able to graze them out before closing but that wouldn't apply in your case. Jeez I'm talking about closing covers already where did the summer go!

Growth rates just too strong here anyway to even consider extending rotation .

yewtree

mahoney_j wrote: »

Without raking up the war (another hol v X red debate ).those last few posts are interesting.what I'm noticing especially this year with low price is that high solids milk and low volume associated with typical X Breds won't generate enough cash .combine that with high Sr ,drought and the need to supplement ,the return from meal just isn't paying .came across lots of herds over last few weeks with high % but 16/18 litres per cow production feeding from 2/4 kg meal ,the meal is feeding the cow but in a lot of cases leaving no margin or most likely costing money .
Havnt suffered badly with grass here this year ,keeping quality right is a big battle though despite 12/20 day rounds since May .every paddock baled some twice and no topping done.currently at 26.5 ltrs 4.02 dat 3.53 p on 3.5 kg of 16% p.was on 14%!but grass just hadn't enough punch so upped it and by late August I'll be on 18 same feeding rate .also toying with idea of baling strong for 3 weeks in August and only start building covers from then .

There is a stocking rate question on a lot of those farms aswell, if you can't grow enough grass consistently from April-August (Everyone is caught once in a while) the farm is overstocked and you are very vulnerable to situation outlined in your post. The milk produced from 10-15% of the herd is unprofitable because the extra 10-15% in cow numbers is the cause of most of the extra meal being fed.

Plan to start building covers here the 7th of August, 30 day rotation by 1st of September, 40 day rotation by 1st of October. 70 % of farm grazed in October, remaining 30% in November.

pedigree 6

mahoney_j wrote: »

Without raking up the war (another hol v X red debate ).those last few posts are interesting.what I'm noticing especially this year with low price is that high solids milk and low volume associated with typical X Breds won't generate enough cash .combine that with high Sr ,drought and the need to supplement ,the return from meal just isn't paying .came across lots of herds over last few weeks with high % but 16/18 litres per cow production feeding from 2/4 kg meal ,the meal is feeding the cow but in a lot of cases leaving no margin or most likely costing money .
Havnt suffered badly with grass here this year ,keeping quality right is a big battle though despite 12/20 day rounds since May .every paddock baled some twice and no topping done.currently at 26.5 ltrs 4.02 dat 3.53 p on 3.5 kg of 16% p.was on 14%!but grass just hadn't enough punch so upped it and by late August I'll be on 18 same feeding rate .also toying with idea of baling strong for 3 weeks in August and only start building covers from then .

Same issue here was on 14% nut and cows not really producing the same as last year. Gone to 16% and cows are milking 26.3 L @ 3.56 bf 3.44 pr and feeding 4 kgs. More milk now than at start of month. Conception seems good this year. No cows bulling in last 3 weeks.
Fat is down on other years. Could drop meal a bit to bring up but don't want to loose litres either so keep going as is.
Grass doesn't seem to have same punch this year. Spread a bag 18.6.12 last round and going to spread one bag of urea left from spring now (God loves a tryer):D

Keepgrowing

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Same issue here was on 14% nut and cows not really producing the same as last year. Gone to 16% and cows are milking 26.3 L @ 3.56 bf 3.44 pr and feeding 4 kgs. More milk now than at start of month. Conception seems good this year. No cows bulling in last 3 weeks.
Fat is down on other years. Could drop meal a bit to bring up but don't want to loose litres either so keep going as is.
Grass doesn't seem to have same punch this year. Spread a bag 18.6.12 last round and going to spread one bag of urea left from spring now (God loves a tryer):D

A bag of 18's is t enough, well depends on sr. It's less than a unit per day for 3 weeks

Our cows doing 24lutres or 1.95 kgms on .75kg 12% nut bought on price. All rest is grass, all paddocks bales with 2 topped.

40 units of N every 28 days. 60% crossbred here. While I accept what Mahoney is saying re farms he's visited I have to say it's not the case here. Cows performing really well

blackdog1

Keepgrowing wrote:

40 units of N every 28 days. 60% crossbred here. While I accept what Mahoney is saying re farms he's visited I have to say it's not the case here. Cows performing really well

First cross or 2nd 3rd?

Keepgrowing

blackdog1 wrote: »

First cross or 2nd 3rd?

Crossing here for about 8 yrs or so. Stopped using Je early in the game as the selection of bulls is limited. Would've used Danish Je in early days, super milkers but no lasting.

Should say no heifers in the herd but 15% are calved since last Oct

Sillycave

How long after removing stock bull do people scan cows/heifers?
Is there a prefer method to reduce abortion from the process or is it just your AI doing scan the normal way?

mahoney_j

Keepgrowing wrote: »

A bag of 18's is t enough, well depends on sr. It's less than a unit per day for 3 weeks

Our cows doing 24lutres or 1.95 kgms on .75kg 12% nut bought on price. All rest is grass, all paddocks bales with 2 topped.

40 units of N every 28 days. 60% crossbred here. While I accept what Mahoney is saying re farms he's visited I have to say it's not the case here. Cows performing really well

Hmmm interesting !!

yewtree

Keepgrowing wrote: »

Crossing here for about 8 yrs or so. Stopped using Je early in the game as the selection of bulls is limited. Would've used Danish Je in early days, super milkers but no lasting.

Should say no heifers in the herd but 15% are calved since last Oct

What bulls are you using at moment? Have you used any kiwi cross?

whelan2

Sillycave wrote: »

How long after removing stock bull do people scan cows/heifers?
Is there a prefer method to reduce abortion from the process or is it just your AI doing scan the normal way?

Normally scan from 28-30 days after bull comes out. Get an Ai man to scan mine but not the same ai man that serves cows here

Keepgrowing

yewtree wrote: »

What bulls are you using at moment? Have you used any kiwi cross?

All kiwi for replacements

pedigree 6

Keepgrowing wrote: »

Our cows doing 24lutres or 1.95 kgms on .75kg 12% nut bought on price. All rest is grass, all paddocks bales with 2 topped.

40 units of N every 28 days. 60% crossbred here. While I accept what Mahoney is saying re farms he's visited I have to say it's not the case here. Cows performing really well

Teagasc monitor farm in wexford doing
17.15 litres @ 4.65bf 3.85pr and kgms 1.5.
Cross bred herd no meal.

Mind me asking what way your %'s breakdown?
You have a lot of litres with 0.75 kg of meal.
No flies on your grass management.