Dairy Chit Chat- Please read Mod note in post #1

jaymla627

blackdog1 wrote: »

I'd take out the distillers, and palm kernel myself maybe the beans too. Add a bit of soya bean to bring it to 14% pr feed. Dawg will give you better advice. Maize, barley,wheat and soya hulls with a bit of soya bean if you want to up protein level in feed.

Pretty crappy nut plus one on the soya bean, 14% nut I'm feeding is maize, barley Sugar beet pulp soya hulls and soya bean, sugar beet pulp is a great ingredient for energy

blackdog1

jaymla627 wrote:

Pretty crappy nut plus one on the soya bean, 14% nut I'm feeding is maize, barley Sugar beet pulp soya hulls and soya bean, sugar beet pulp is a great ingredient for energy

I find alot of people put in cheap protein and then spend 15 euro a tonne to cube the meal instead of going for the better meal and running it through the feeders straight.

yosemitesam1

blackdog1 wrote: »

I'd take out the distillers, and palm kernel myself maybe the beans too. Add a bit of soya bean to bring it to 14% pr feed. Dawg will give you better advice. Maize, barley,wheat and soya hulls with a bit of soya bean if you want to up protein level in feed.

Probably best to get rid of wheatfeed also, all the worst parts of the grain

yewtree

Good idea to ask for the UFl as fed for any feed bought in, hi quality concentrates will have UFl as fed of .94. Concentrates with same ingredients can differ in quality due to inclusion rate of ingredients. Agree on points made above on quality of ingredients in that ration- a lot of filler in that ration

Timmaay

Cows here still on 2kg of a mix of straight barley (185e/ton) and a high quality 13% nut with calmag etc (250e/ton). Bit dusty but the cows eat it fine. Protein usually 3.55 to 3.6, 22l/cow, yield is holding for longer and better than previous years, so something is working right.

+1 to asking for the "as fed ulf" of at least .94, the sales rep will know immediately that you mean business and don't want any crap off him, and if the sales rep doesn't know what the as fed ulf is just hang up the phone on them ha.

freedominacup

blackdog1 wrote: »

I'd take out the distillers, and palm kernel myself

And the dried grains from wheat and the wheatfeed. Anymore than four or five ingredients not incl mins and someone is padding your ration with $hit. Wheat, barley, maize, soya (at grass), distillers grains, rapeseed, field beans, soya hulls/citrus pulp/very pulp and molasses are the only ingredients you ever want to see in a cow ration.

freedominacup

blackdog1 wrote: »

I'd take out the distillers, and palm kernel myself maybe the beans too. Add a bit of soya bean to bring it to 14% pr feed. Dawg will give you better advice. Maize, barley,wheat and soya hulls with a bit of soya bean if you want to up protein level in feed.

I'd be happy enough the beans. They are what they are and no-one has extracted anything from them and then tried to tell you how good their by-product is.

Sillycave

blackdog1 wrote: »

I'd take out the distillers, and palm kernel myself maybe the beans too. Add a bit of soya bean to bring it to 14% pr feed. Dawg will give you better advice. Maize, barley,wheat and soya hulls with a bit of soya bean if you want to up protein level in feed.

jaymla627 wrote: »

Pretty crappy nut plus one on the soya bean, 14% nut I'm feeding is maize, barley Sugar beet pulp soya hulls and soya bean, sugar beet pulp is a great ingredient for energy

How much per tonne is your nut?
Did you dictate the ingredients to your supplier and he produced accordingly?
Thinking next order to order as above or does anyone else reckon there is a better composition for euro/t?
Do you mind me asking your current pr and bf figures?

yewtree wrote: »

Good idea to ask for the UFl as fed for any feed bought in, hi quality concentrates will have UFl as fed of .94. Concentrates with same ingredients can differ in quality due to inclusion rate of ingredients. Agree on points made above on quality of ingredients in that ration- a lot of filler in that ration

Are you looking for an UFI of .94 and above?

Timmaay wrote: »

Cows here still on 2kg of a mix of straight barley (185e/ton) and a high quality 13% nut with calmag etc (250e/ton). Bit dusty but the cows eat it fine. Protein usually 3.55 to 3.6, 22l/cow, yield is holding for longer and better than previous years, so something is working right.

+1 to asking for the "as fed ulf" of at least .94, the sales rep will know immediately that you mean business and don't want any crap off him, and if the sales rep doesn't know what the as fed ulf is just hang up the phone on them ha.

Are you feeding through bins? If so how is that working for you and does it come pre-mixed?

Thanks for replies, looks like i am feeding some sh&t stuff at the min
Is there any suggestion's in the short term to help increase figures as nuts only delivered last week?
Thinking of using a pour-on to help them as they are very loose at the minute

kowtow

Timmaay wrote: »

Cows here still on 2kg of a mix of straight barley (185e/ton) and a high quality 13% nut with calmag etc (250e/ton). Bit dusty but the cows eat it fine. Protein usually 3.55 to 3.6, 22l/cow, yield is holding for longer and better than previous years, so something is working right..

All through the parlour feeders?

jaymla627

Sillycave wrote: »

How much per tonne is your nut?
Did you dictate the ingredients to your supplier and he produced accordingly?
Thinking next order to order as above or does anyone else reckon there is a better composition for euro/t?
Do you mind me asking your current pr and bf figures?



Are you looking for an UFI of .94 and above?



Are you feeding through bins? If so how is that working for you and does it come pre-mixed?

Thanks for replies, looks like i am feeding some sh&t stuff at the min
Is there any suggestion's in the short term to help increase figures as nuts only delivered last week?
Thinking of using a pour-on to help them as they are very loose at the minute

255 ton is what its coming in here blown in, cows currently doing 26 .5 litres of 3.5kgs fty last test results 3.71bf 3.45pr lactose 4.93% 60% of herd is 1st/2nd lactation

Buford T. Justice XIX

I just came across this article about debts and boom and bust cycles and thought some might like a read of it in relation to Milk pricing.

The Economist | Financial stability: Minsky’s moment http://www.economist.com/news/economics-brief/21702740-second-article-our-series-seminal-economic-ideas-looks-hyman-minskys?frsc=dg%7Cd

Keepgrowing

Not too sure about the last few posts. I accept where meal me wks are high or cows are milking in excess of 28litres that the quality of ingredients are important.
In my case the feed is bought on price and I'm sure if I checked ingredients they're crap but my cows are performing.

mahoney_j

Your cows no doubt yielding well ,are they the typical big liquid milk hols who will produce big volumes of milk with not so great solids .the pd for milk and solids I was talking about earlier are the figures for milk ,p and fat kg on your herd ebi report .only a guess but I reckon a big plus for milk ,average figs for solids with neutral or negative % .this would explain your low solids

Keepgrowing

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Teagasc monitor farm in wexford doing
17.15 litres @ 4.65bf 3.85pr and kgms 1.5.
Cross bred herd no meal.

Mind me asking what way your %'s breakdown?
You have a lot of litres with 0.75 kg of meal.
No flies on your grass management.

I'm not happy with my percentage solids at all. Fat is bouncing along mid 4.2 to 4.28 and pro 3.62 to 3.68 kinda thing.
I've got litres because of a mature herd with no heifers. While I'm a bit of a grass nut I wouldn't be a purest by any means.

By that I mean I'll graze cows hard for first 2 rounds being sure to hit 100 residuals but I then relax and allow cows decide residual while feeding in parlour just prior to mating. I will continue this till end of mating them cut back nuts.

I keep residuals in check by mowing every paddock for bales this resetting the sward and not forcing the cow.

The key to yield on my system is to hit peak ASAP and feed that cow to sustain it for as long as possible. I'll sacrifice the % in the peak for the volume but my % will bounce back from now on giving more hi solid litres at back end.

I've fed 400 kg of nuts from Jan 1 till this week and will feed 400 more till Dec 31.

Not sure if this makes sense

Neddyusa

Markcheese wrote: »

hasnt chicory really poor persistance ? Cows love it though , (might be why it's persistence is so poor in a test paddock, with something new the cows will hunt out every last leaf)..

Pic taken yesterday of a sward of Chicory looking well here in its 4th year. Was sown with red and white clover and a mix if intermediate diploids and tetraploids.
On sand and gravel here and fields next door with ryegrass only lookin very drought stressed for the past while.
I find this sward a Godsend in terms of yield and quality this time of year on any light land.

Timmaay

Sillycave wrote: »

Are you feeding through bins? If so how is that working for you and does it come pre-mixed?

Thanks for replies, looks like i am feeding some sh&t stuff at the min
Is there any suggestion's in the short term to help increase figures as nuts only delivered last week?
Thinking of using a pour-on to help them as they are very loose at the minute

Through the feeders, seem to work well enough. All the feed Mill do is throw the nuts on top of the barley in the lorry, by the time it gets blown into our loft, and put into the small hopper under the augers (by 20kg buckets ha) it's mixed up reasonably well. If I was blowing it straight into a meal bin I'd get them to mix the 2 together better at the mill.

I did price up a 3way mix ration but they were l coming in around 230 etc, I'm paying 217 for this mix, and no issues with the augers etc that can supposedly happen with rations.

Sillycave

jaymla627 wrote: »

255 ton is what its coming in here blown in, cows currently doing 26 .5 litres of 3.5kgs fty last test results 3.71bf 3.45pr lactose 4.93% 60% of herd is 1st/2nd lactation

very impressive figures

mahoney_j wrote: »

Your cows no doubt yielding well ,are they the typical big liquid milk hols who will produce big volumes of milk with not so great solids .the pd for milk and solids I was talking about earlier are the figures for milk ,p and fat kg on your herd ebi report .only a guess but I reckon a big plus for milk ,average figs for solids with neutral or negative % .this would explain your low solids

MJ showing my native here, where are you pulling the herd ebi?
I see figures on my ICBF Performance report for ebi but there is no breakout of pr, bf, etc.

Timmaay wrote: »

Through the feeders, seem to work well enough. All the feed Mill do is throw the nuts on top of the barley in the lorry, by the time it gets blown into our loft, and put into the small hopper under the augers (by 20kg buckets ha) it's mixed up reasonably well. If I was blowing it straight into a meal bin I'd get them to mix the 2 together better at the mill.

I did price up a 3way mix ration but they were l coming in around 230 etc, I'm paying 217 for this mix, and no issues with the augers etc that can supposedly happen with rations.

Interesting idea, what is your nut ingredients like? Sounds like a good value feed that could be a possibility for me as bins fed from loft above
Might try nut suggested before as a trial first to see if i can increase quickly

Any suggestions for increasing pr & fat before next order of nuts will be appreciated?

Buford T. Justice XIX

A bit of bad news if you're depending on Chinese buying our products and infant formula, especially Kerry suppliers.

Chinese distributor of Irish infant formula hit by milk powder scandal



http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/chinese-distributer-of-irish-infant-formula-hit-by-milk-powder-scandal/

pedigree 6

blackdog1 wrote: »

I find alot of people put in cheap protein and then spend 15 euro a tonne to cube the meal instead of going for the better meal and running it through the feeders straight.

Always used nuts here for the feeders.
You got me thinking about the rations.
So I looked up on google and came across this article from penn state uni.
http://extension.psu.edu/animals/dairy/nutrition/forages/forage-quality-physical/in-vivo-digestibility-of-forages
A lot of reading in their articles and only starting on them.
Didn't learn any of this in kildalton ( while ago since I was there might of changed).
So nuts could actually be worse than rations.
Going to try out a ration on next order.

I'm open to pm's on good ration suppliers in the south east.
Cows are bolused with osmonds long term grazing mineral bolus so might be ok for that.

mahoney_j

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Always used nuts here for the feeders.
You got me thinking about the rations.
So I looked up on google and came across this article from penn state uni.
http://extension.psu.edu/animals/dairy/nutrition/forages/forage-quality-physical/in-vivo-digestibility-of-forages
A lot of reading in their articles and only starting on them.
Didn't learn any of this in kildalton ( while ago since I was there might of changed).
So nuts could actually be worse than rations.
Going to try out a ration on next order.

I'm open to pm's on good ration suppliers in the south east.
Cows are bolused with osmonds long term grazing mineral bolus so might be ok for that.

My feeders can handle nuts or ration but don't bother with ration due to inconsistency through a load .i always get a specd nut with 4/5 max ingridents .if unsure of what ur getting in a nut just inform the rep you'll be getting a load or 2 tested every year ,keep him
On his toes

freedominacup

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Always used nuts here for the feeders.
You got me thinking about the rations.
So I looked up on google and came across this article from penn state uni.
http://extension.psu.edu/animals/dairy/nutrition/forages/forage-quality-physical/in-vivo-digestibility-of-forages
A lot of reading in their articles and only starting on them.
Didn't learn any of this in kildalton ( while ago since I was there might of changed).
So nuts could actually be worse than rations.
Going to try out a ration on next order.

I'm open to pm's on good ration suppliers in the south east.
Cows are bolused with osmonds long term grazing mineral bolus so might be ok for that.

That was the biggest difference between Irish and UK training in my time. The most basic of basic instruction on nutrition almost as an afterthought in Ireland. At least two hours per week and dozens of exercises on putting complete rations together in the UK to the extent that doing calculations in my head I was out by 300g of soya in a tmr compared to a "nutritionist " sitting at a computer with all the info at his fingertips the last time I checked my figures. It's no more than junior cert maths but you'd swear it was doctorate level physics the way all of the pro's in this country bang on about it. I still use ME and CP with an eye on protein quality when formulating. Once you know maintenance, weight gain and production allowances off the top of your head it's the easiest and most satisfying but of paperwork you'll do. Once you know what your forage can/should deliver it's basically a pound (450g) of a reasonable quality concentrate per litre of milk after that. If forage will deliver maintenance plus 15litres and you need to support 25l then you need 4.5kg (10lbs) of concentrate.

whelan2

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Always used nuts here for the feeders.
You got me thinking about the rations.
So I looked up on google and came across this article from penn state uni.
http://extension.psu.edu/animals/dairy/nutrition/forages/forage-quality-physical/in-vivo-digestibility-of-forages
A lot of reading in their articles and only starting on them.
Didn't learn any of this in kildalton ( while ago since I was there might of changed).
So nuts could actually be worse than rations.
Going to try out a ration on next order.

I'm open to pm's on good ration suppliers in the south east.
Cows are bolused with osmonds long term grazing mineral bolus so might be ok for that.

Best meal around here is from a mill that uses very few ingredients, think stan uses the same place, keep it simple

Dawggone

mahoney_j wrote: »

My feeders can handle nuts or ration but don't bother with ration due to inconsistency through a load .i always get a specd nut with 4/5 max ingridents .if unsure of what ur getting in a nut just inform the rep you'll be getting a load or 2 tested every year ,keep him
On his toes

You're not going to keep him on his toes with s threat/promise/guarantee like that.

Just know what you're talking about. It's certainly not rocket science.

Try and forget the hocus pocus.

Dawggone

freedominacup wrote: »

That was the biggest difference between Irish and UK training in my time. The most basic of basic instruction on nutrition almost as an afterthought in Ireland. At least two hours per week and dozens of exercises on putting complete rations together in the UK to the extent that doing calculations in my head I was out by 300g of soya in a tmr compared to a "nutritionist " sitting at a computer with all the info at his fingertips the last time I checked my figures. It's no more than junior cert maths but you'd swear it was doctorate level physics the way all of the pro's in this country bang on about it. I still use ME and CO with an eye on protein quality when formulating. Once you know maintenance, weight gain and production allowances off the top of your head it's the easiest and most satisfying but of paperwork you'll do. Once you know what your forage can/should deliver it's basically a pound (450g) of a reasonable quality concentrate per litre of milk after that. If forage will deliver maintenance plus 15litres and you need to support 25l then you need 4.5kg (10lbs) of concentrate.

Fairly accurate Free...

Junior maths once you understand what a balanced diet is...

Knowing your herd and knowing your constituents is what it's about...both differ greatly.

Once you stick to the rules about good proteins and bad...good starches and bad...you'll get the hang of it.

Eg. Young Irish lad here today said the maize was 'savage'. It may be tall but it's a long way from being excellent...objective 45% starch...(not cellulose).

I play about with tmr, how else do I learn.



Btw, doing the night shift here and I think I earn good forage because of attention to detail. Non stop irrigation...!

#grasstomilk haha

While you lot are asleep I'm on irrigation duty whilst tending tillage operations...


#lazyshower. :):)

Sillycave

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Mine were the same a month ago.
Wormed and fluked 3 weeks after housing.
But they still didn't look quite right and dung watery in some of them.
Gave them all neoprinil pour on and milk is up and dung normal now. So must have been a problem.
Shine on them now too.

How much per cow was neoprinil?
Is that for worms and fluke?
Vet reckon that was gone off the market

mahoney_j

Dawggone wrote: »

You're not going to keep him on his toes with s threat/promise/guarantee like that.

Just know what you're talking about. It's certainly not rocket science.

Try and forget the hocus pocus.

Agree on knowing what your talking about ,more than anything that'll keep him on the ball but for someone not as on the ball a threat of testing random loads will do just the same providing its carried out and questions asked
Changed tack here this year and working off a mix with maize ,barley ,soya bean ,hulls ,beet pulp palm kernel as main ingridents specd as 14/16/18% p throughout the year with added vitimans ,minerals ,yeast and megafat from March to late June .no ****ty fillers or crisp I don't want

mahoney_j

Dawggone wrote: »

You're not going to keep him on his toes with s threat/promise/guarantee like that.

Just know what you're talking about. It's certainly not rocket science.

Try and forget the hocus pocus.

Agree on knowing what your talking about ,more than anything that'll keep him on the ball but for someone not as on the ball a threat of testing random loads will do just the same providing its carried out and questions asked
Changed tack here this year and working off a mix with maize ,barley ,soya bean ,hulls ,beet pulp palm kernel as main ingridents specd as 14/16/18% p throughout the year with added vitimans ,minerals ,yeast and megafat from March to late June .no ****ty fillers or crisp I don't want

Dawggone

mahoney_j wrote: »

Agree on knowing what your talking about ,more than anything that'll keep him on the ball but for someone not as on the ball a threat of testing random loads will do just the same providing its carried out and questions asked
Changed tack here this year and working off a mix with maize ,barley ,soya bean ,hulls ,beet pulp palm kernel as main ingridents specd as 14/16/18% p throughout the year with added vitimans ,minerals ,yeast and megafat from March to late June .no ****ty fillers or crisp I don't want

When do you use 18%pr for milking cows?

mahoney_j

Dawggone wrote: »

When do you use 18%pr for milking cows?

From late August till dry off,.have used 18s in spring but not for last 2,years hi energy 16s with just Maize ,barley soya ,beet pulp,and cal mag vits mins etc .mix from late August formulated same at 18 but swap pulp for hulls .grass at time of year ,lush ,can be wet ,hi in p but cows just can't process enough of it through rumen.fair idea of answer you'll give me but we don't get same ammount of sun u do no can we produce crops of clover ,Lucerne maize etc .i know free was feeding a 9% p nut earlier in summer here and admited it was a mistake .even for last few weeks here grass just hadn't a punch to it and was only good for 20 ltrs and more likely less .great growing conditions but sun was missing

Dawggone

mahoney_j wrote: »

From late August till dry off,.have used 18s in spring but not for last 2,years hi energy 16s with just Maize ,barley soya ,beet pulp,and cal mag vits mins etc .mix from late August formulated same at 18 but swap pulp for hulls .grass at time of year ,lush ,can be wet ,hi in p but cows just can't process enough of it through rumen.fair idea of answer you'll give me but we don't get same ammount of sun u do no can we produce crops of clover ,Lucerne maize etc .i know free was feeding a 9% p nut earlier in summer here and admited it was a mistake .even for last few weeks here grass just hadn't a punch to it and was only good for 20 ltrs and more likely less .great growing conditions but sun was missing

Exact same problem with grass here this year. No sun and dull weather. Ended up putting lucerne wraps in buffer, something we never have to do.

Still 18%pr is strong for the shoulders...are you buying milk or selling? Have you tried some fibre or Sodium Bentonite?