Dairy Chit Chat- Please read Mod note in post #1

Dawggone

kevthegaff wrote: »

http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/irish-farmers-scrap-farm-subsidies-new-zealand-dairy-leader/

think this is it, have to agree with him rather than paying armchair farmers hefty rents..

Thanks Kev.

Fwiw...I was taken aback with the arrogance...:(

mahoney_j

Dawggone wrote: »

Thanks Kev.

Fwiw...I was taken aback with the arrogance...:(

+1 fook off back to New Zealand and mind your own business

mahoney_j

Dawggone wrote: »

Thanks Kev.

Fwiw...I was taken aback with the arrogance...:(

+1 fook off back to New Zealand and mind your own business

Buford T. Justice XIX

mahoney_j wrote: »

+1 fook off back to New Zealand and mind your own business

But you have to be touched by their concern for our wellbeing, all the same:)

cosatron

mahoney_j wrote: »

+1 fook off back to New Zealand and mind your own business

TBH Mj I agree with him. in galway here, there is some amount of wasted land cause farmers are happy enough to plod along with a couple of heads to keep the single farm payment, its an absolute disgrace, my neighbour has over 108 acres and all he does is buy about 20 AA every year and fatten them, no fertilizer spread, only on silage ground, so slurry spread. The ai rep is from Clare and he thinks its a joke the amount land in Galway not being farmed properly. Then when you try and rent some land, they want and 100 euro an acre and the single farm payment back aswell.

Dawggone

No word about the fact that EU milk quota allowed them expand and grow markets...because it suited.
Now we should allow family farms go to the wall as the EU processors are paying too much for milk...

That savant (Hoggard) should read a few books and educate himself a little.

mahoney_j

Dawggone wrote: »

No word about the fact that EU milk quota allowed them expand and grow markets...because it suited.
Now we should allow family farms go to the wall as the EU processors are paying too much for milk...

That savant (Hoggard) should read a few books and educate himself a little.

Along lines of way I thought after reading it.kiwis have made there bed (mass produce primirally cheap commodities for Chinese market).highly volatile product and market which had high peaks and low troughs .the fact eu was restricted with quota for years probably shielded them from worst of lows but. Now it's game on ,

Dawggone

cosatron wrote: »

TBH Mj I agree with him. in galway here, there is some amount of wasted land cause farmers are happy enough to plod along with a couple of heads to keep the single farm payment, its an absolute disgrace, my neighbour has over 108 acres and all he does is buy about 20 AA every year and fatten them, no fertilizer spread, only on silage ground, so slurry spread. The ai rep is from Clare and he thinks its a joke the amount land in Galway not being farmed properly. Then when you try and rent some land, they want and 100 euro an acre and the single farm payment back aswell.

Do you believe in the right to hold and own private property?

I do agree about the level of farming west of the Shannon...however Hoggard reckons that the level of farming intensification falls with the removal of supports...so without sfp the stewardship of the countryside would be worse!

Dawggone

mahoney_j wrote: »

Along lines of way I thought after reading it.kiwis have made there bed (mass produce primirally cheap commodities for Chinese market).highly volatile product and market which had high peaks and low troughs .the fact eu was restricted with quota for years probably shielded them from worst of lows but. Now it's game on ,

But but but you're being paid too much for your milk!
I'm thinking he should read a little on forex...




I suppose when, after years of backslapping and being told you're the best in the class, you start to believe your own drivel.

yosemitesam1

cosatron wrote: »

TBH Mj I agree with him. in galway here, there is some amount of wasted land cause farmers are happy enough to plod along with a couple of heads to keep the single farm payment, its an absolute disgrace, my neighbour has over 108 acres and all he does is buy about 20 AA every year and fatten them, no fertilizer spread, only on silage ground, so slurry spread. The ai rep is from Clare and he thinks its a joke the amount land in Galway not being farmed properly. Then when you try and rent some land, they want and 100 euro an acre and the single farm payment back aswell.

instead of removing supports they could apply the full rate of CAT to farms and that would give things a good shake up,

yosemitesam1

Dawggone wrote: »

But but but you're being paid too much for your milk!
I'm thinking he should read a little on forex...




I suppose when, after years of backslapping and being told you're the best in the class, you start to believe your own drivel.

I doubt the future is as bright as they think it will be for them, huge pasture resources in north+south america, africa that have very good potential if developed and eu has plenty of room for improvement

cosatron

Dawggone wrote: »

Do you believe in the right to hold and own private property?

I do agree about the level of farming west of the Shannon...however Hoggard reckons that the level of farming intensification falls with the removal of supports...so without sfp the stewardship of the countryside would be worse!

Look it I understand that and everyman to his own but I feel that the removal of single farm payment would pave the way to opening up more lands to young ambitious farmers who are willing and able via rental, partnerships and sale of land. With regards the stewardship of the countryside, would it not be better for the land to be farmed right then left sitting there growing gods grass.

Dawggone

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

I doubt the future is as bright as they think it will be for them, huge pasture resources in north+south america, africa that have very good potential if developed and eu has plenty of room for improvement

It makes me chuckle when politicians/industry cheerleaders bang on about feeding the squillions of people that will inhabit the planet by 2050. They should take a look East and just see the potential....

Dawggone

cosatron wrote: »

Look it I understand that and everyman to his own but I feel that the removal of single farm payment would pave the way to opening up more lands to young ambitious farmers who are willing and able via rental, partnerships and sale of land. With regards the stewardship of the countryside, would it not be better for the land to be farmed right then left sitting there growing gods grass.

Lol. It's the guys that cut and bale hay, then leave it to rot with a foot of aftergrass growing up around it, that gets me...they're not all from west of the Shannon either.
If you are a young farmer ( under 40) go to France and they will install you with the choice of all the land that comes on the market, with interest free loans for the first 7yrs etc etc... And yet very few young farmers about. They prefer the city jobs...

Dawggone

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

I doubt the future is as bright as they think it will be for them, huge pasture resources in north+south america, africa that have very good potential if developed and eu has plenty of room for improvement

It's more of a beggar thy neighbor thing.
No doubt that posters will jump in on this and say that the industry would be a lot better without subsidies. Maybe so, IF they are removed throughout the world and its s level playing field for all...then I'm happy with that. I won't be holding my breath....

billie holiday

Lotd of potential to produce milk and feed the market in Australia, East Europe Brazil the US
I think the market is on a knifeedge

kowtow

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

instead of removing supports they could apply the full rate of CAT to farms and that would give things a good shake up,

Presumably on the basis that those farms which would become subject to CAT are not businesses?

There have always been CAT / IHT exemptions for businesses on the basis that few businesses of any sort could withstand a 30-40% tax on their capital value every generation without being torn to bits.

If farming didn't have farming exemption, it would have business exemption.

kevthegaff

Government seem set on increasing land value/rent, rent has gone up due to top ups, and young farmer SFP around here. Then the indo comes out with 550/ acre this morning. I'm speechless, thought land prices will decrease...

Timmaay

kevthegaff wrote: »

Government seem set on increasing land value/rent, rent has gone up due to top ups, and young farmer SFP around here. Then the indo comes out with 550/ acre this morning. I'm speechless, thought land prices will decrease...

But then ya read the article which is reasonably balanced, no significant changes from last 2 years in rental prices. That 550/acre is for wexford spud land which is always totally out of touch with any other crop, it's utterly stupid and does farmers zero favours to have that as a headline, it nothing but ammo for landlords who might try to put the price up moving forward.

dar31

can some one explain to me, in relation to bull proofs on Icbf, the calving sub index.
what is the differance between Dir. calv diff % and Mat. calv diff.
picking Ai bulls and stock bulls at the moment and realised i never fully understood the difference/terminology of the two.

tanko

dar31 wrote: »

can some one explain to me, in relation to bull proofs on Icbf, the calving sub index.
what is the differance between Dir. calv diff % and Mat. calv diff.
picking Ai bulls and stock bulls at the moment and realised i never fully understood the difference/terminology of the two.

I'm not certain but I think the direct calv diff tells how hard calving the bull is and the maternal calv diff puts a figure on the calving ability of the Bulls daughters. A bull with a low calving difficulty and a low maternal calving difficulty would be ideal.

einn32

Dawggone wrote: »

Anyone read the piece on Agriland from Andrew Hoggard of Federated Farmers New Zealand?

Sorry can't post link...

They must be under pressure in NZ if he is commenting on Irish dairy production! I doubt Mr. Hoggard fully understands Irish dairy farming...he should worry about his own industry maybe.

Australia deregulated Agriculture 16 years ago. Victoria pushed it seemingly while Western Australia payed a heavy price in the number of farms who ceased trading. About 150 dairy farms left now from about 400 in WA.

I do agree with Mr Hoggard on the problems in starting a career in dairy plus the ability of people to sit on land. But that's the system and unless it changes there isn't much you can do.

Mehaffey1

http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/irish-farmers-scrap-farm-subsidies-new-zealand-dairy-leader/

While I have a lot of time for what Andrew Hoggard has to say, I feel that he's far off the mark with those views. He would not be so confident if it was New Zealand instead of Ireland dropping subsidies on the back of a low milk forecast payout with Fonterra's set to drop to 4.30 or so. Coupled that on the back of 2 summers of drought with farmers' stock levels and leverage with the bank manager falling through the floor then he would be shouting from the rooftops.

Mehaffey1

einn32 wrote: »

They must be under pressure in NZ if he is commenting on Irish dairy production!

My thoughts exactly although as the 'voice' of NZ farmers he wouldn't want to be detracting attention off of the state of NZ dairying.

Dawggone

Mehaffey1 wrote: »

http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/irish-farmers-scrap-farm-subsidies-new-zealand-dairy-leader/

While I have a lot of time for what Andrew Hoggard has to say, I feel that he's far off the mark with those views. He would not be so confident if it was New Zealand instead of Ireland dropping subsidies on the back of a low milk forecast payout with Fonterra's set to drop to 4.30 or so. Coupled that on the back of 2 summers of drought with farmers' stock levels and leverage with the bank manager falling through the floor then he would be shouting from the rooftops.

Thanks Mehaffey.

The message I can glean from his piece is that the playing pitch is not 'level' enough in favor of the Kiwis anymore....they had 30yrs of an open goal and if your processors and producers can't gain an advantage in that time they should look to their own industry...

Markcheese

Dawggone wrote:

The message I can glean from his piece is that the playing pitch is not 'level' enough in favor of the Kiwis anymore....they had 30yrs of an open goal and if your processors and producers can't gain an advantage in that time they should look to their own industry...

Was there ever a truly level playing field - a lot of the "money " in new zealand dairy was in the farms value - so to be a rich farmer you need a young sucker to come in and work his ass off to pay you out... a ponzy scheme - theres a limit to how much milk can be produced efficently per acre ,

kowtow

Dawggone wrote:

The message I can glean from his piece is that the playing pitch is not 'level' enough in favor of the Kiwis anymore....they had 30yrs of an open goal and if your processors and producers can't gain an advantage in that time they should look to their own industry...

I think there may be a realisation dawning in NZ that history did not begin in 2004 ... and that the market conditions which existed before then could well return.

Had a long talk with someone whose operations are tied closely to the oil exploration industry the other night and he was reluctantly dealing with the same possibility.

RightTurnClyde

kowtow wrote: »

I think there may be a realisation dawning in NZ that history did not begin in 2004 ... and that the market conditions which existed before then could well return.

Had a long talk with someone whose operations are tied closely to the oil exploration industry the other night and he was reluctantly dealing with the same possibility.

Which is ???? Low oil prices , cheap commodities ???

Mehaffey1

Markcheese wrote: »

Was there ever a truly level playing field - a lot of the "money " in new zealand dairy was in the farms value - so to be a rich farmer you need a young sucker to come in and work his ass off to pay you out... a ponzy scheme - theres a limit to how much milk can be produced efficently per acre ,

I wouldn't agree there, some very profitable farms are still owner operated especially at around the 600 cow herd size. Although, if you do come into 200ha of land why wouldn't you skip out on the 4am starts and being elbow deep in cows at midnight every spring?

One thing I've seen this year is that there are less and less young New Zealanders interested or willing to commit to dairy. To a certain extent this is the opposite of Hoggard's criticism of Ireland with that the industry here is crying out for managers/sharemilker/contract milkers and not enough are stepping up. That's where the Dutch/Irish/UK workers are stepping in and forging a great living even if it isn't glamorous.

On a related note I read an article from a Federated Farmers' spokesperson about now being a time for those looking to step up to contract milking or sharemilking to be very positive about the future. This being due to many sharemilkers exciting the business due to stress either financial or mental. I found that a disgusting statement from an organisation who are meant to be campaigning for farmers' well-being.

On an unrelated note, doing some calculations and would it be fair to say 1kg DM of Milksolids very roughly equates to 0.92 kg of Whole Milk Powder, given a huge variation for protein/fat and different dairy companies?

Markcheese

Mehaffey1 wrote:

I wouldn't agree there, some very profitable farms are still owner operated especially at around the 600 cow herd size. Although, if you do come into 200ha of land why wouldn't you skip out on the 4am starts and being elbow deep in cows at midnight every spring?

Yeah , I was probably way overstating it. I was always a fan of their low cost ,grass based system.And the fact that it was forward looking (young farmers ,share farmers,share milkers) ,trying to be innovative...
The guy I milked 250 for nearly 20 years ago was gradually expanding , new more centrally located parlour, he was considering a small irrigation dam for dry summers, and last time I talked to him had got a share milker in, but not with massive debt and still low cost ... (he's probably retired by now)